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Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

Nocturnalist

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
585
Location
Farfield
yo im watching recent matches and how come falcon players don't mix up throws against spacies? i just see people trying to get that quick knee after a downthrow.i watched the set with Hax vs Jman and i didn't see him mix it up not even once in the whole set.
 

_Rocky_

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 14, 2009
Messages
783
Location
611
Did decent in a tourney this weekend

most of the good matches didnt get recorded unfortunately
 

linkoninja

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
459
Location
Los Angeles
Falcon players are moving up in the world. I was getting whooped with Marth against a Fox.
Went Falcon, and just took a dump on him.



What are some good CC options for Falcon? Grab, down-tilt (against Spacies). What else?

What do you guys feel about Wave-land > Up-Air against Fox/Falco
I was doing it the other day in frendlies, I felt like Ganon xD
Obviously Ganon's is better, but I think if the Fox/Falco is below the stage it might be safer than B-Air. Dunno though
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
yo im watching recent matches and how come falcon players don't mix up throws against spacies? i just see people trying to get that quick knee after a downthrow.i watched the set with Hax vs Jman and i didn't see him mix it up not even once in the whole set.
That's a good question. Against spacies I feel like uthrow is too slow. Way too much time to prepare and stuffs. Uthrow is also really good for tech chases though. So if you just wanna build percents and frustrate your opponent I feel like uthrow is kinda the throw for that. If you wanna finish stuff quickly though, dthrow is more of your option.

Falcon players are moving up in the world. I was getting whooped with Marth against a Fox.
Went Falcon, and just took a dump on him.
What are some good CC options for Falcon? Grab, down-tilt (against Spacies). What else?
Lol that's basically it unfortunately. That and gentleman. CC and Falcon don't really go together that well. Everything else is too slow, or not useful enough.

As far as waveland upair, his hitbox to "spike" is in his knees [haha.] So if you're going to do that you gotta spike with his knees. Overall it's not a bad option, if you feel like it'll hit better than the bair then go for it.

This game is all about picking a better option.
 

linkoninja

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
459
Location
Los Angeles
I don't go for the Up-Air off of Wave-land unless the Fox MUST Up-B
if he phantasms I normally just wait for him to land then try and punish.
 

Nocturnalist

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
585
Location
Farfield
That's a good question. Against spacies I feel like uthrow is too slow. Way too much time to prepare and stuffs. Uthrow is also really good for tech chases though. So if you just wanna build percents and frustrate your opponent I feel like uthrow is kinda the throw for that. If you wanna finish stuff quickly though, dthrow is more of your option.
i feel the same way but most falcon players just run in with dthrow (not really noticing their opponents percentage)when the can switch it up throws and get the kill instead of down throwing a spacie to 145% and mess up and/or get punished.the simple thing to do is up throw to f-smash or d-smash or d-tilt. if you watch Jeffs videos he does it a lot.mixing up the throw should be used since it kills their teching game. thats when the jab resets came on handy as well.
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
i feel the same way but most falcon players just run in with dthrow (not really noticing their opponents percentage)when the can switch it up throws and get the kill instead of down throwing a spacie to 145% and mess up and/or get punished.the simple thing to do is up throw to f-smash or d-smash or d-tilt. if you watch Jeffs videos he does it a lot.mixing up the throw should be used since it kills their teching game. thats when the jab resets came on handy as well.
Oh I totally agree. Since uthrow->knee works at around 110% you definitely need to do that xD uthrow->dsmash is really weird


Also
It seems like Ken and Isai have started playing again :awesome:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXCLNnj8OBY


On another side note
I did the dumbest combo today
Nair->uair->pivot reverse knee
I wish it was recorded
It was the dumbest **** ever
 

Nocturnalist

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
585
Location
Farfield
Oh I totally agree. Since uthrow->knee works at around 110% you definitely need to do that xD uthrow->dsmash is really weird


Also
It seems like Ken and Isai have started playing again :awesome:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXCLNnj8OBY


On another side note
I did the dumbest combo today
Nair->uair->pivot reverse knee
I wish it was recorded
It was the dumbest **** ever
dude i cried when i saw this video.if i ever saw team with such good coordination and synergy i would shoot someone. yea but fo real though. there are those falcon player who just run in like a chicken with no head. its silly
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Falcon players are moving up in the world. I was getting whooped with Marth against a Fox.
Went Falcon, and just took a dump on him.



What are some good CC options for Falcon? Grab, down-tilt (against Spacies). What else?

What do you guys feel about Wave-land > Up-Air against Fox/Falco
I was doing it the other day in frendlies, I felt like Ganon xD
Obviously Ganon's is better, but I think if the Fox/Falco is below the stage it might be safer than B-Air. Dunno though
most applicable crouch cancels:

run the **** away after crouch cancelling

then its grab, although superb fox spacing will not get grabbed it works often enough to try it

don't think down-tilt works well but if it works for you then ****

==

are you talking about waveland off the stage to up-air? because that is an incredibly powerful edgeguard tool that a lot of people don't expect and always seems to hit (especially (weak) knee)

go to 2:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qgfgHF1-Cc

although it didn't hit, i still **** brix at the fact that isai did this 6 years ago, great tool to implement for edgeguarding (for spacies you should face forward and weak knee)
 

linkoninja

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
459
Location
Los Angeles
most applicable crouch cancels:

run the **** away after crouch cancelling

then its grab, although superb fox spacing will not get grabbed it works often enough to try it

don't think down-tilt works well but if it works for you then ****

==

are you talking about waveland off the stage to up-air? because that is an incredibly powerful edgeguard tool that a lot of people don't expect and always seems to hit (especially (weak) knee)

go to 2:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qgfgHF1-Cc

although it didn't hit, i still **** brix at the fact that isai did this 6 years ago, great tool to implement for edgeguarding (for spacies you should face forward and weak knee)
yep yep that's what I'm talking about
(off of platforms too)
and just ledgehop up-airs too
their pretty beast
 

linkoninja

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
459
Location
Los Angeles
Okay this is gonna sound stupid but hear me out.
How do you guys hit with both hits of N-Air >.> against short-ish characters like Fox
Do you guys delay your aerial?
I'm always trying to space N-Airs against Fox and I can get the 2nd hit
but I can never hit the little ******* with the first hit and I don't know why.

So yeah
is it my timing? Right now I think I'm N-Airing at the peak of the jump then proceeding to SHFFL but yeah like I said I can't seem to hit with the 1st hit.
 

S l o X

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
2,838
Location
bridgeport, ct
nando was the first falcon i've actually ever played (that used nair from ledge to combo the **** out of you). **** surprised me and i panicked after the first hit from nair and always got *****.

those combos, honestly. and the moonwalk > grab combos aqweqweqw. we definitely need more mms / friendlies. i definitely got better from watching those videos. north east usa gonna tap the world soon.
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
Okay this is gonna sound stupid but hear me out.
How do you guys hit with both hits of N-Air >.> against short-ish characters like Fox
Do you guys delay your aerial?
I'm always trying to space N-Airs against Fox and I can get the 2nd hit
but I can never hit the little ******* with the first hit and I don't know why.

So yeah
is it my timing? Right now I think I'm N-Airing at the peak of the jump then proceeding to SHFFL but yeah like I said I can't seem to hit with the 1st hit.
You fast fall a bit early, or jump and hit it really early. You can FF before the entire Nair is over, so you just gotta make sure that you FF to the point where both hit.
tbh you don't really need the first hit, second one's the best part of it.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Okay this is gonna sound stupid but hear me out.
How do you guys hit with both hits of N-Air >.> against short-ish characters like Fox
Do you guys delay your aerial?
I'm always trying to space N-Airs against Fox and I can get the 2nd hit
but I can never hit the little ******* with the first hit and I don't know why.

So yeah
is it my timing? Right now I think I'm N-Airing at the peak of the jump then proceeding to SHFFL but yeah like I said I can't seem to hit with the 1st hit.
what i do is short hop and nair quickly and then fast fall in between 1st and 2nd leg

--

just out of curiousity

who do you play with in LA

==

and dam

nando is the next falcon hero

i feel so pumped to just turn on melee and start playing lol
 

linkoninja

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
459
Location
Los Angeles
I play against my friends mainly in L.A, they aren't pros/know AT. I'm still a scrub at Melee. I can do some AT, but the application of them is still something I need to learn (as well as more technical things such as SHDF with Marth, and Moonwalking with C.F)
 

Walt

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Messages
894
Location
Concord, CA
Man I moved like 30 minutes away from people I usually play, sucks since I don't have a car to use 70% of the time. Oh well, gotta meet new people up in norther-NorCal. Also not gonna have internet at my new place, SSS. shi sux son.
 

Nocturnalist

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
585
Location
Farfield
Man I moved like 30 minutes away from people I usually play, sucks since I don't have a car to use 70% of the time. Oh well, gotta meet new people up in norther-NorCal. Also not gonna have internet at my new place, SSS. shi sux son.
dude where do you live? you can come to the 707 gatherings if you can.
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
I play against my friends mainly in L.A, they aren't pros/know AT. I'm still a scrub at Melee. I can do some AT, but the application of them is still something I need to learn (as well as more technical things such as SHDF with Marth, and Moonwalking with C.F)
Those are about the least technical things you could've possibly listed
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
technical ability isn't really flashy cool stuff, but being to do what you want fluidly with no mistake.

So mango in his prime is the most technical player in the world

linko do you happen to live around ucla jw
 

linkoninja

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
459
Location
Los Angeles
Nope I live like 10 minutes from downtown L.A.

You could argue on what being technical is.
But basically as far as character specifics
there isn't as much to learn for Marth/Falcon
therefore those are (to ME) technical things I still need to learn.
Granted sure ledge-canceling Up-B's is important, but yeah.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
vs peach

i've concluded that her f-air is a death zone

but is there anything i can do after i block it

seems like i can't (before she jabs/d-smash)

but not sure
 

Tomacawk

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
3,783
Location
Central IL
vs peach

i've concluded that her f-air is a death zone

but is there anything i can do after i block it

seems like i can't (before she jabs/d-smash)

but not sure
if she float cancels the fair, she's at a huge frame advantage on your shield. I've read many times (reliable sources) that she can actually fair->grab you, guaranteed, presuming she is low to the ground and inputs the grab as fast as possible. Roll the hell out of there. Jumping will make you get tapped by the jab and probably grabbed. Dsmash will hit your shield hard, but if you shield DI away from the first hit of it you can sh knee oos.

If you're gunna roll, roll away (this is what I suggest if you miss the shield DI). If she comes to dash attack try to CC it.
 

CaptainNanD0

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
447
Location
Dark side
when peach drops with her gay fair i pivot fsmash it and it works wonders

edit: well as of now ive been doing it depending on % lol

and pivot dsmash works too i bet
 
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