Official Captain Falcon Video Critique Thread

~Marth~
Now this is a Match up I know about. Marth is one of my favorite Match ups, because it really depends on who's a better player. So let's get started.

1) I like your pressure. At the start of the game, you really keep the pressure on Marth to stay in the corner, and the less space he has to move the better. You really need to eliminate his DD, as he will wanna do with yours, but unfortunately he has a much easier way of doing that than you. So good job.

2) Again, you need to respect his moves. Marth's Nair beats everything except your side b. Don't knee it. You will lose. You need to watch his utilt space too. He hits you with a lot of those, and that'll lead into more damaging grab->tech chase combos later. In the second match you did this a lot, spamming moves and running straight into his sword rather than waiting and playing more patiently.

3) Grab more. This is more of a style preference, but grabbing can REALLY frustrate a player. Grab->dthrow->grab works until 30% I think, but dthrow->uthrow->nair always works, and that leads into really damaging combos. Dthrow->uair->regrab works at about 40%, but that only works on long stages with low platforms. At 80%-120ish, Uthrow->knee is guaranteed [or not, we never really figured that out, but let's run with it] and after 130 dthrow does, I believe. This will end a stock quickly. It's a great way of taking control of the match and hampering the other player. There's never a reason not to grab, unless you feel like it would put you in extreme danger.

4) Edgeguard more. When he's offstage, don't let him come back! Here you really should have backair'd, after forcing him to use his upb early he's helpless. Because of that, you had to go on for longer, which increases the time you can make mistakes. Finishing off his stocks quickly and efficiently is the goal here, because if you make a mistake it'll be you on that end. You did a lot more of this in the 3rd game.

Um that's pretty much it. Sorry I didn't have a lot to say, I just didn't have a lot of stuff except style differences. Besides that STOP UP BING SO EARLY IT DOES NOTHING BUT KILL YOU

That is all.

Couple things I'm going to contend here

Up-b'ing gives then the opportunity to hit you before you have the option of altering your trajectory which I think is a lot worse than up-b'ing extremely high and making them guess, especially if their aerial kill moves aren't knee (you can usually DI Luigi's finishers until at least 160 if you're high on Dreamland)

Luigi recovering low is a lot harder to edgeguard than recovering high (probably just because I'm not used to doing it but whatever)
All you really have to do to edgeguard high recoveries is jumping out with a knee because you have forever to do it, but low recoveries you have to figure out when he's going to release the side-b and you also don't have the luxury of waiting for the misfire. He'll often have his jump too so Dairing him is sometimes risky because he just meteor cancels with his jump and you guys have a dumb race for the stage

I'm usually a lot better at edgeguarding Marth *johns johns johns johns johns* >_<

Other than that I appreciate the advice

Also I like how in the Marth time you linked about not Kneeing his Nair I get grabbed from super Marth range when I thought I was spaced ... *super depression*

More vids from the MD Circuit tournament this weekend I hope

Wenbobular said:

Couple things I'm going to contend here

Up-b'ing gives then the opportunity to hit you before you have the option of altering your trajectory which I think is a lot worse than up-b'ing extremely high and making them guess, especially if their aerial kill moves aren't knee (you can usually DI Luigi's finishers until at least 160 if you're high on Dreamland)

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Yeah but you're like in the stratosphere. I'm not trying to say
"YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG"


I'm just saying that I see, as a general rule, you will get more punished by it than if you would have, for example, waited a little bit longer and maybe airdodged above the stage, then doubled back for the ledge.

There are lots of ways to make them guess with a lot less risk involved.

Wenbobular said:

Luigi recovering low is a lot harder to edgeguard than recovering high (probably just because I'm not used to doing it but whatever)
All you really have to do to edgeguard high recoveries is jumping out with a knee because you have forever to do it, but low recoveries you have to figure out when he's going to release the side-b and you also don't have the luxury of waiting for the misfire. He'll often have his jump too so Dairing him is sometimes risky because he just meteor cancels with his jump and you guys have a dumb race for the stage

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Yeah I know. I was talking more around stage heightish. I've seen a few people do it, I know Darkrain does it a lot. Anything lower is MUCH harder to guard, you're right, and I definitely agree with you. But if they don't have a jump, they have more or less lost if you dair them. Even with their jump, they've lost all forward momentum, and need to restart the side b.
I can see where it's really risky, but it also has a huge payoff, much more than almost every other character in the game.

edit:

As far as Marth edgeguarding I was saying put more focus on that. I feel like you didn't really have a particular strategy with beating him except lots of nairs to knees. You did fine except for more or less that one big point I hit on with the nair instead of the bair.

super edit:
I also appreciate you contending on points. I enjoy the dialogue, and I don't claim to know everything about everything. So if I'm wrong be sure to let me know.

It's just the way this has been set up that I've been the one reviewing all of these.

Being in the stratosphere is like ... where Falcon wants to be while recovering though. It gives you the most time to trick them with edgecancels and DI. The actual general rule for recovering as Falcon is recover as high as possible if you're hit offstage at a high trajectory, and I'm pretty sure that applies to almost every character ... especially characters that, like I said, have crappy aerial finishers (like Luigi and Marth)

Luigi is actually super good at catching airdodges with aerial -> you airdodge -> aerial again, which is why I don't bother trying to airdodge ... sometimes you can trick then by airdodge and then fastfalling ASAP and hoping they'll miss, but up-b'ing higher than they can jump is like strictly better

It's a lot more dangerous to go after a Luigi that has his jump because he actually gets horizontal from his jump so he's not forced to use another side-b
I should probably be more cavalier when he doesn't have one though (although eating a misfire is never pretty and is basically the reason why I don't really try it)

i dont get whats everyone's obsession with uthrow knee on marth, it hardly ever works and seriously it's just not a reliable finisher, at least not at the percent that u mentioned
it for sure stops working after around 80 or so.. they can just DI up or away even and they won't get hit by it...

dthrow knee is so much more reliable and basically always works, I almost never uthrow knee
like I really tried to do it but everytime they would jump out
i think your underestimating marths floatiness past like 80% :S

I think you're doing it wrong. Marth DIing down and away off dthrow with trying to fit in a fair or side-b is about the same difficulty to land than a uthrow knee. And if they DI uthrow away at 70%+ if you aren't comfortable with knee then uair them as they try to do knee survival DI and get knee'd out of the uair.

alright settling this once and for all...

Uthrow-->knee is GUARANTEED on marth ONLY from low 60s to high 80s NO MATTER THE DI. (more like it's the only realistic percents that you should be doing it at in games, you might be able to technically do it at around high 50s and low 90s and maybe even mid 90s if you are FRAME PERFECT, but it's unrealistic and there are better options at those percents). Even at low 60s it's hard to do sometimes because you have to be pretty on time with the timing of your jump to knee or else good marths will just buffer out a fair and prevent you from hitting the knee. I still work on this in training mode to get it consistently.

After high 80s on marth you should dthrow-->knee which is also guaranteed by the way until like way later which you should just start dthrow-->uair (that's like around high 100s i dont'even know cuz it rarely gets to that situation if you're letting marth live that long you're probably screwed....)

END OF THE Uthrow-->knee discussion, it's been asked so many times and the percentages are always skewed. It definitely doesn't work after 90% as they float too high and can buffer fair or jump out of it.

Windrose said:

alright settling this once and for all...

Uthrow-->knee is GUARANTEED on marth ONLY from low 60s to high 80s NO MATTER THE DI. (more like it's the only realistic percents that you should be doing it at in games, you might be able to technically do it at around high 50s and low 90s and maybe even mid 90s if you are FRAME PERFECT, but it's unrealistic and there are better options at those percents). Even at low 60s it's hard to do sometimes because you have to be pretty on time with the timing of your jump to knee or else good marths will just buffer out a fair and prevent you from hitting the knee. I still work on this in training mode to get it consistently.

After high 80s on marth you should dthrow-->knee which is also guaranteed by the way until like way later which you should just start dthrow-->uair (that's like around high 100s i dont'even know cuz it rarely gets to that situation if you're letting marth live that long you're probably screwed....)

END OF THE Uthrow-->knee discussion, it's been asked so many times and the percentages are always skewed. It definitely doesn't work after 90% as they float too high and can buffer fair or jump out of it.

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ahaha yes thank you so much for clearing this much. I basically like... I just felt you had to be so perfect on full jump kneeing at higher percents that it was almost unrealistic. like for sure its impossible to uthrow knee marth at like 90% or higher...
the only times I use uthrow against marth would be like. 40-70% or so lol (lower ranges to uair, higher range to like uair knee or just knee)

yeah that's a good rule to go by but hypothetically at 30% you can start u--throw-->uair/nair but i have difficulty with it against marths that ALWAYS like to buffer out. Rather than learning how to get it frame perfect, I am quick fixing it by adapting and just baiting out the buffer and punishing afterwards :S

Now see I completely disagree with this. I'm doing my own research prompted by this, having people do all kinds of different DIs and options of getting out, and from what I'm seeing so far 80% is guaranteed.

But for the sake of argument I won't say anything more until I have all of my data.
Just for shiggles windrose, I assume you're playing NTSC? That wouldn't even do anything different to the data here, even if you were playing PAL, would it?

Edit: I know I've been wrong before so that's why I'm looking at this. I just know from my experience that this works, and since you're telling me so heartily it doesn't I feel like it should be worth looking into. So I'm not trying to put you down or tell you you're wrong or anything.

Yeah I play NTSC. It should work in 80% but I'm as sure as sugar that 90% or higher is not guaranteed (uthrow-->knee).
Let me know how your research goes.

EDIT: we're talking about marth right??? NOT sheik? >_> cuz sheik...uthrow-->knee is different percent ranges...

Windrose said:

Yeah I play NTSC. It should work in 80% but I'm as sure as sugar that 90% or higher is not guaranteed (uthrow-->knee).
Let me know how your research goes.

EDIT: we're talking about marth right??? NOT sheik? >_> cuz sheik...uthrow-->knee is different percent ranges...

Click to expand...

Yes we are talking about Marth. I know Sheik's is 80-110% for sure.
Lots of practice in that one. Not as much in the Marth.

marth is like soooo floaty man
if u upthrow them past like 80 you cant even reach them with your initial jump lol

Windrose said:

Yeah I play NTSC. It should work in 80% but I'm as sure as sugar that 90% or higher is not guaranteed (uthrow-->knee).
Let me know how your research goes.

EDIT: we're talking about marth right??? NOT sheik? >_> cuz sheik...uthrow-->knee is different percent ranges...

Click to expand...

also yeah man i love uthrow knee on sheik
its the most guaranteed **** in the world
whenever i grab sheik at like 80 or higher i just have a smile on my face
and then they are just sadface

ryankam10 said:

marth is like soooo floaty man
if u upthrow them past like 80 you cant even reach them with your initial jump lol

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Lol yeah you can bro
Full hop man. Full hop all day.

Okay, so I was testing it a little bit
Preliminary testing says 94% on the grab

So if you grab from 80-94%, it is guaranteed so far. Marth begins to move starting at 90%, and at 95% Fair comes out and trades, but until 95% he can't stop the knee. You can see the initial frames of movement, but I haven't seen him escape yet.
That's what I have so far.

0Room said:

Lol yeah you can bro
Full hop man. Full hop all day.

Okay, so I was testing it a little bit
Preliminary testing says 94% on the grab

So if you grab from 80-94%, it is guaranteed so far. Marth begins to move starting at 90%, and at 95% Fair comes out and trades, but until 95% he can't stop the knee. You can see the initial frames of movement, but I haven't seen him escape yet.
That's what I have so far.

Click to expand...

your prolly right that you can technically, im prolly just doing it too slow :S it would probably be difficult for me to like
jump up and knee like frame-perfect (which is what I assume is necessary to uthrow knee at 90 plus).

anyways since this thread is kind of boring and old I decided to post something I liked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17E23tg0ICE

Right here, at like 2:32 s2j demonstrates what seems to be like a good tactic for dealing with marth. Like here strawhat basically full jumps fairs to just nick the shield, which I assume is what you're supposed to do, s2j counters with a full jump uair

then, strawhat spaces a short hop fair into his shield, s2j counters with a jump oos nair which seems to be able to get through his spaced fairs. not exactly sure if this only works with powershield (which s2j does, for both hits) but for me this is like a lesson on how to properly counter a marth who safely spaces his aerials. BEcause to me the hardest part of the marth matchup is when he has you against the side of the stage. He has so many options, fast aerials that just nick your shield, the threat of the fsmash... whenever marth has me against the side of the stage I basically panic and usually just die cus I can't get through any of his **** lol.

lol

we both played so bad

every day of pound 5 we were allowed to wake up at like noon

last day we had to wake up at 9-10 am~

none of us had time to practice they made us do our matches right away

if u wanna look up a good falcon playing marth, look up hax's vids

ryankam10 said:

your prolly right that you can technically, im prolly just doing it too slow :S it would probably be difficult for me to like
jump up and knee like frame-perfect (which is what I assume is necessary to uthrow knee at 90 plus).

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Yeah there's a rhythm to it. It's throw,[wait wait wait], jump. Practice it a bit to get it. It's super possible.

Lol S2J I didn't know your name symbolized that.
I dunno I like your Falcon. It's pretty cool.

Here is my video, some people help me, but it will be nice to put the video in the right place :D Ty for all the help you could give me :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLdpaxu4zMY

I don't even feel like I should be posting this =.=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0AgJgcXBKA
Savedge is drunk and I'm not playing up to my standards of playing well so the entire set sucks but I feel obligated to post it anyways

****_Ichigo said:

Here is my video, some people help me, but it will be nice to put the video in the right place :D Ty for all the help you could give me :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLdpaxu4zMY

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Yeah I think I watched that.

But I like the Peach MU in particular so I'll do it

Wenbobular said:

I don't even feel like I should be posting this =.=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0AgJgcXBKA
Savedge is drunk and I'm not playing up to my standards of playing well so the entire set sucks but I feel obligated to post it anyways

Click to expand...

I wanna talk to Hax a bit before I say anything, I was going to talk to him about Pika/Falcon, but I should ask him about this too. Falcon Dittos are my worst MU personally So I wanna make sure I have all the facts right.

Falcon dittos are my best matchup on a good day
This was a reeeeeeeeeeeeal ****ing ****ty day

not gunna mention tech skill stuff since I know ur just not playing good

but consider doing platform punishes with knee/stomp IMO

up-air seemed to be working great on drunk savedge since he wasn't crouch cancelling them though

****_Ichigo said:

Here is my video, some people help me, but it will be nice to put the video in the right place :D Ty for all the help you could give me :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLdpaxu4zMY

Click to expand...

im not that qualified to talk about peach because its one of my crappier matchups but:

stages:

i dunno if you guys stage strike or random, but try your hardest not to play on fountain of dreams unless you know he sucks/ you are really good on that stage

ban mute city/ brinstar


stadium/ battlefield are good counterpicks

i'm not gunna talk about the more obvious stuff since you can just look at the video yourself

but your biggest mistakes are in your recovery

you double jump like a n00b and that peach was reading you really hard and kept catching you with even a dash attack. You want to sweetspot the edge with your double jump

in last match last stock you jumped too late and missed the edge with your double jump

~Ichigo, basically what S2J said but with 3 main points.

The CF/Peach MU on CF's End really do consist of just three two points [generally, of course], and so coincidentally you need these two points as well, but whatevs.

1) Keeping your distance. Otherwise known as spacing, CF's performance on stage consists of this and step number 2. When throwing out attacks, you need to make sure that your attacks are always on the tips of the hitboxes. Nair will ALWAYS trade with Peach's attacks, and Bair makes it super difficult for her to get in. She's gay, but you have the tools to be gayer. Here for example, was bad. When you land that close to a Peach with lag from an attack, you WILL get Dsmashed or grabbed, depending on your percents. You want to be farther from her, and avoid stages that have no room, like...all the stages you played on except Pokestadium and Battlefield xD

2) Control center stage. An extension of edgeguarding, controlling center stage is crucial to CFs gameplay. When you're edgeguarding her, she can't edgeguard you. While edgeguarding Peach is an exercise in patience, Peach edgeguarding Falcon is an easy stock. You fell off the stage so easily in the first few games, just letting him edgeguard you instead of the other way around. When you start limiting his options and stopping his recovery, you'll find the match is a lot easier. [side note: don't attack him when he's doing a floating dair. It'll pull you up into a nair and then you'll be sad. Don't be sad. Be awesome.]

3) Watch your percents. At 40%, you can uthrow->knee if they don't DI it [they won't if they don't see it coming] and at 70-110(?)% You can dthrow->knee. At 70 they won't die if they have good die, at around 120 they more or less do die unless you're on a super huge stage and you're on the wrong side of the stage. But you need to watch your percents too. At 30%, a dsmash isn't so bad. at 90%, that's an edgeguard. And an edgeguard=a stock. So keep that in mind.

~Wenbo
I asked Hax and he said CF dittos were his worst MU too -_-

But what we did talk about is two main things
1) Remember your weaknesses and use them against him. Your OoS options are generally ****, and whenever they're in shield you need to take advantage of that and really pressure him. You didn't really do that a lot this game, but it's something to look at.
2) Tech chasing with just grabs wins games. Your tech roll sucks balls and so if you just generally tech chase with grabs forever and ever until you feel like finishing it, that's usually a stock. Especially with Falcon's speed.

From the video though, I'd say that
1) The simplest edgeguards are the best. Here, you decided to dair [whyyyy] and Savedge decided to get you for it.
I believe here you could have uthrew->dsmash but i'm not sure.

2) He basically edgeguarded you for all of your stocks in the first game. This sucks because you're Falcon and can't really do anything about it, but try to again, control center stage and edgeguard him instead of letting him edgeguard you.

Other than that, it was just general stuff. Like you said you weren't really playing super seriousness, so it's not that big of a deal. Random SDs and stuff.

But you did get this shy guy though. Good job.

I was playing serious
...I was also playing super bad
The Dair was a tech skill error where I was trying to jump into the ledge but landed on stage so I decided to try to hit him like an idiot

Yeah the set generally blows
I will keep in mind what s2j said about techchasing with stomp / knee though because for the most pair Uair isn't that great (unless they're drunken Savedge I guess =_=)

Usually I'm better at spacing Nair right at the tip of their shield also so ... bleh
Maybe next time I won't play like ***

Wenbobular said:

Yeah the set generally blows

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That's what I mean by serious.
Was it an actual tournament match?

Either way, it can only be so serious at least from Savedge's side.

Also, you don't have to make excuses every time we critique you
It's why we critique you If you didn't make mistakes we wouldn't have to critique you.
Don't worry about it lol

Eh, I guess I'm being a little arrogant in how I expect people to perceive my play given how sloppy the recent sets I've uploaded are
I'm making excuses because most of the stuff you're mentioning are tech skill flubs / things I don't normally screw up
Although I should probably be techchasing more with grabs ... zzz

And yes it was tournament <_<

Hopefully I can post a less ****ty set next time

Well that's exactly what I'm saying.
You don't have to worry that we'll think you're bad.

because I know I don't.
I just know that no one is perfect and everyone is improving.
So don't worry about it.

I'm not worried at all about how I'm perceived haha
It's just that some of the things I see pointed out are things that I normally don't miss like ... ever
Ah well, less sucking / johnsing next time I swearz

Wenbobular casting his dark swarm so he can be immune to attacks.

What attacks <_<
Doesn't even protect against flamers because Firebats can fire under swarm XD

You know what I think this board needs
A thread of guaranteed knee percents on all characters

I should start on that.

Wenbobular said:

What attacks <_<
Doesn't even protect against flamers because Firebats can fire under swarm XD

Click to expand...

Oh I see what you did there.

Besides, the critique going on in this thread can hardly be considered "attacks" haha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA3PWvlroqI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pFGbZLaslw

2 sets from a tourney 2 weeks ago. Critique/comment please

I especially want some pointers on the ICs MU. While the instinct based style I currently have works well enough to take sets off all the top icies in europe I don't want to even drop games

(also, you can marvel at how ridiculously stupid the puff matches are loool)

Yo, I just made a small Combo Video^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmqMZJ5GT2E

It´s just for entertaining, I know some combos are lame etc. ^^ But have fun watching anyway!

ZetTroxX said:

Yo, I just made a small Combo Video^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmqMZJ5GT2E

It´s just for entertaining, I know some combos are lame etc. ^^ But have fun watching anyway!

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Holy crap. That was amazing!! I really enjoyed that video. The combos weren't anything too special but the video was so well made.

You are really good at video editing, the music and visual productions were so well done. Good choice of music imo. The audio syncing and fading in/out with the video was great too. I also liked the essence of clean comedy put into the video.

5/5 would watch again.

This video also made me want to start using up smash more again..

PS: how did you make that 3d captain falcon video? O_O with his pants ripping? lol

He didn't make that, it's an extra from F-Zero GX I believe.

I just got back from G6
I didn't do any tournament sets, but if I find a video of myself I'll upload it

I didn't do very well, but I got a lot better. Learned a lot of stuff.
So I'm uploading videos, and I'll be doing stuff here soon, like looking at Rocky's videos
I just don't have time atm xD