Vish @ Pound 5

numberonenacho · May 6, 2011

Hey guys so I'm planning on going to Genesis 2, and wanted some good critiques on my current falcon play. =]
At Pound 5, I got to play with a bunch of really good players and definitely learned a lot, but I think other people's opinions would make my gameplay a bit better.

Especially my Vs. Sheik game. =(
Here are my sets from Pound 5.

Vs. Scar [Falcon]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnPs9tJgCaA

Vs. LordHDL [Link]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZABkCz03UGA

Vs. DJNintendo [Samus]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70paNwIXgXk

Vs. VirusBlueMage [Falco]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1JcKU7aaV8

Vs. Shroomed [Dr. Mario]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVWV8dEdAp0

Vs. IHSB [Samus]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVWxEjewTDw

Vs. Tope [Sheik]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRQeJYWrNx8

Vs. RockCrock [Ganon]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_QmXVNdJVw

:3 :3

0Room · May 7, 2011

vs Sheik, when she jab resets you Smash DI up and you'll get up, if you DJ back you're 90% safe. He can't do anything because of the lag until you've already Dj'd, it's just guessing where you're going to go that's a problem.
80-110% is uthrow->knee, after that is dthrow. So after that percent make sure to do a throw->knee. It's a great finisher.

Your sense of spacing and ability to run in and out was really good, but you've got to CC/DI out of these combos.

numberonenacho · May 10, 2011

Thanks, you're right.. I feel like my survival DI is decent more often than not, but my combo DI is not too great. I do have problems smash DI'ing sheiks jab reset though. I get it when its above 60% but I can't seem to nail it before then..

Anyone have a solid strat to doing it properly? I've seen SS do it at near 0% and I don't understand.. >_<;

Wenbobular · May 11, 2011

Ask Mango how he does it <_< he gets out of Sheik's with Falcon below 10
I think just holding up gets you out past the low 30s or so
Most of the time during combos I just let go of the stick and that'll get you out of a lot of stuff (but unfortunately not everything ~_~)

Windrose · May 11, 2011

Wenbobular said:
Ask Mango how he does it <_< he gets out of Sheik's with Falcon below 10
I think just holding up gets you out past the low 30s or so
Most of the time during combos I just let go of the stick and that'll get you out of a lot of stuff (but unfortunately not everything ~_~)

Yeah. If you hold up you will get up instantly past like 20% in which you can jump or jab right away.

What do you mean letting go of control stick? As in neutral di?

Lovage · May 12, 2011

vish bro did you record our lil money match at the end of day 3?

i'm only asking cuz i remember i did a cool invisible shine combo LOL

Wenbobular · May 12, 2011

Windrose said:
Yeah. If you hold up you will get up instantly past like 20% in which you can jump or jab right away.

What do you mean letting go of control stick? As in neutral di?

Neutral DI gets you out of a lot of stuff while not putting you at risk of super twist DI

numberonenacho · May 12, 2011

Ohhh yeah, I'll go look for it Lovage. I forgot about those matches. =D =D

I almost never use neutral DI, I'll try it out I suppose. I've gotten too used to holding a direction lol.

0Room · May 12, 2011

So I just watched your set versus Rockcrock, and 3 main things:

1) Don't tech in place so much ;_;
Ganons are just WAITING for you to tech in place so they can **** you with Stomp [which he did...a lot]. It's harder for them to follow techrolls, especially when they're facing the other direction [but not impossible!] Teching in place/towards them is usually a bad idea because they can reach that really easily, but not always. If they expect you to roll away they WILL catch you.

2) Mind his options!
You got caught by waveland->ftilt and ledgehop->downB a LOT. You need to watch for patterns in his play, and be mindful of his off of ledge and OoS options. Also, remember that his Bair > Pretty much everything you've got. His fair, ftilt, and bair all beat your nair flat out, and uair trades with it [I believe].

3) Nair vs knee approaches.
I feel like you kind of got this in the game where you 4 stocked him, but I feel like the knee is a GREAT GREAT GREAT weapon against Ganon. He just does NOT have the tools to deal with it, and if you come in at the right times, you can absolutely destroy him. Which you did. I feel like nair is a GREAT combo starter/continuer, but as an approach option versus Ganon I don't think it should be spammed. [btw, uthrow->nair starts at around 22-30%. Also, uthrow->knee starts at around 75% through about 90%, and dthrow->knee works after that. You can pretty much dthrow until a stupid amount, I haven't quite figured it out yet.] I don't think that you should approach with only knee, but it's really really good to use every now and again.

alright
Just wanted to point that out.

Wenbobular · May 13, 2011

I think Nair is amazing vs Ganon, but the best Ganon I've played is like ... Ace :\
I think you can basically react to Ganon's jump with Nair and it'll beat any move he throws out because it won't come out in time

numberonenacho · May 13, 2011

Not teching in place is something I heavy agree with, I sometimes fall into muscle memory and just do that ish. =[

but darn, so far it's been mostly vs. Ganon advice.. which is cool and all but I do feel pretty confident versus that evil ****er.
Any tips vs. Falco or Sheik? I realized I don't have any vs. Marth matches on here either. *sadface*

Does just holding up really get you out of sheiks jab thingy after 30%? Somehow that seems too easy...

Windrose · May 14, 2011

Holding the up after ~30% will get you up really fast , almost instantly. But you need to do something after that (jump, jab, or something).

Nothing is safe 100%. If sheiks predict you doing this they'll just punish your no tech with stronger moves like a f-tilt or u smash or something (various choices)

0Room · May 15, 2011

Wenbobular said:
I think Nair is amazing vs Ganon, but the best Ganon I've played is like ... Ace :\
I think you can basically react to Ganon's jump with Nair and it'll beat any move he throws out because it won't come out in time

Ace is actually really good lol
He's my bro

and I agree about Nair, but my biggest problem is that bair/uair/fair/ftilt WILL beat our your nair. and that's frustrating.

Windrose said:
Nothing is safe 100%.

Yes.

As far as Falco, the hardest part is getting through lasers. Your basic idea after that is more or less the same as Fox.

Moophobia said:
In, general I don't fight the character, I fight the player which I think everyone should do. PP says that I'm not afraid of falco, which basically means that I'm not giving him time to set up his mix ups or pressure. That means he has to work a lot more at moving around, which sucks for him because of his slow move speed and he has to work harder to start up combos. Basically you can get your pressure in before his starts because most people are just afraid of falco because of his potential.

You're going to want to tech chase, starting with grabs to learn their patterns [remembering that spacies have a tendency to tech in place] and then starting to really hold center stage and edgeguard him.
You gotta stay up close, I'm not sure on the EXACT spacing, but I'm thinking just far enough to get a dash-grab. I'm working on my Falco MU rihgt now but that's what I've got so far.

Wenbobular · May 15, 2011

0Room said:
and I agree about Nair, but my biggest problem is that bair/uair/fair/ftilt WILL beat our your nair. and that's frustrating.

I 3 stocked him in crew battles in a match where I think maybe 10% of moves in neutral position weren't Nair, does that make me good vs Ganon or something xD
He beat me in bracket though so I was super extra duper salty during crews

Fair will only beat it if he starts it first which you shouldn't let him do
Bair requires him to face to wrong way
I have no idea about Uair but it still requires Ganon to jump and doesn't cover his front for the entire time, so it's basically a ground move
Anything on the ground you should be trying to bait and shouldn't really be getting hit with them in the first place

Iono
Nair > Tall characters is what I've decided

0Room · May 16, 2011

Yeah I'm too impatient
I always go

"ATTACK NOWWWWWWWWWW"
Which I'm working on

Wenbobular · May 16, 2011

Sounds like me <_<

Walt · May 16, 2011

The Falcon Condition: Run At Mofos

Ganon's uair is a super good way to stop Falcon mid flight, so is up angled ftilt. It'll just stuff everything in the air, it's like Sagat kick. Jump back fair/bair will crush everything and can do it on reaction to Falcon jumping for his aerial just a little too far away, and any closer you can get UA ftilt'd on reaction. I think just baiting anything from Ganon and punishing is the best thing you can do and is just flat out super gay(I personally think doing this makes the MU harder than Sheik, Fox, or Falco. It is seriously the most homogayF A Gsexual you can get). Wizard Foot will also anti-air Falcon sometimes and get the reverse hit that you will almost anyways DI terribly because you were flying at Ganon.

Knowledge brought to you by Ganon being my second best character, some people say it's better than my Falcon.

0Room · May 16, 2011

Well it's because they know what to expect from Falcon, but not necessarily from Ganon

VGmasta · May 23, 2011

I thought Vish did well vs Shroomed. Just gotta find a way to get grabbed less. I think that's what won Shroomed the match. Shroomed got a grabs that net him alot of damage (And Shroomed a good tech chaser, so he's tough to escape and he knocks you down).

If you could read or bait Doc's grab, you could punish it with a SH d-air right as he's trying to grab. D-airs always lead into something.

Deleted member · May 25, 2011

Windrose;12711217 Nothing is safe 100%. [/QUOTE said:
i wish

falco's short-hop back-air

Windrose · May 25, 2011

You guys sound like you play very aggresively as falcons. I've developed a pretty patient style that spaces nairs infront of opponetns and dash dance camp a lot =( I don't think I like my style, it's pretty campy but I don't know how to be succesful with aggression as it just gets flopped in the face. Overshooting is something i'll rarely do =S

0Room · May 25, 2011

Windrose said:
You guys sound like you play very aggresively as falcons. I've developed a pretty patient style that spaces nairs infront of opponetns and dash dance camp a lot =( I don't think I like my style, it's pretty campy but I don't know how to be succesful with aggression as it just gets flopped in the face. Overshooting is something i'll rarely do =S

Actually I do the same thing
It's just
When I know I have openings I push for them

but sometimes I have less of an opening than I thought

Walt · May 25, 2011

Overshooting is so good, I should do it more and I already rely on it a fair amount. Playing defensively and looking for that spot where approaching is safe is probably the best thing falcon can do at neutral game. Then once you get that safe approach just keep that pressure with overshooting and DD. I need to work on all of this.

Deleted member · May 26, 2011

overshooting ***** i do it all the time

Windrose · May 30, 2011

s2j said:
overshooting ***** i do it all the time

I'm not sure if this is a serious post as s2j is known as one of the most defensive and heavy nair spacing falcons @_@

If you are serious, can you guys help list some examples/situations where overshooting would ****? And what kind of aerials?

My biggest worry with overshooting is people intercept you with something or that you land behind them and the only thing you can do after that is like a f-tilt in their direction or something where as if you land infront of them you can gentlemen.

leffen · May 30, 2011

s2j said:
i wish

falco's short-hop back-air

damn u couldnt be more wrong

Walt · May 31, 2011

ok falcos sh bair is like 99% safe. whatever. I've started trying to space dtilt against it at certain spots to hit his bottom foot, works alright sometimes. just a mixup to the other options being "move closer to the edge", "roll forwards and get punished with something else", "get ***** by it in some ******** fashion".

also overshooting is seriously amazing, just because someone plays defensive doesn't mean they shouldn't abuse one of the safest get out of X situation for free cards(doesn't work on falcos bair). doing it with nair or knee if you time it so it'll lightning hit if they stay still and and if they move back get hit by the weak hit. pretty much just sailing right through and crossovers is awesome and every character that can do well(falcon, fox, pika), should. falco can do it at close range and usually does it on shields.

Vish @ Pound 5

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