Pulp Fiction Mafia - Game over! - Mafia wins!

Evil Eye · May 25, 2011

Are you really going to do this to me.

Choice's Shina Read said:
null, out of the 16 posts maybe a handful had content. i could see them being scum but i dont feel right just pinning them as so due to inactivity. coasting is an amazing scum tactic though

I have no read because of limited content.

They could be scum but I'm not feeling it on inactivity alone.

On the other hand wafflewafflewaffle

I'm not going into this anymore, I feel I've broken things down plenty. Now answer my questions properly, please.

Evil Eye · May 25, 2011

I wish I could buy a pokemon-esque Repel, except for ninjas.

@Gheb fair 'nuff

Choice · May 25, 2011

Evil Eye said:
I'm not going into this anymore, I feel I've broken things down plenty. Now answer my questions properly, please.

if someone is null but you can see how they could be scum => null/leaning scum, right? thats my read.

nothing changed between #855 and #857. they were posted like 11 minutes apart and Shin hasnt done anything in more than 11 hours. if anything, 857 was what you're asking for now. a waffle free stance on shinarouji/the stance i'm taking.

if thats still not clear, its 4 AM and i'll try again after some sleep, sorry.

you say your strong reads right now include scumJ, how come i don't really see much action on that part? like i see a lot of questions being thrown around but if its such a strong read, i figure there should be a bigger push goin on.

ranmaru · May 25, 2011

Evil Eye said:
That... is a lot of reads you're asking for. Frankly I don't like barfing up my reads on almost 50% of the roster at the behest of one person who has a fetish for excess questioning -- no offence. I'll give you the solid reads I have.

You could say I'm catching up. I've read the last few pages in bits and pieces, but not in a proper manner with notation and new questions and the like. I've been going between that and other things, so some of these questions are from recent happenings and some are many pages back.

Right now my solid reads are scumJ and town Gheb. The other four are persons of interest for me and I'll need to do different things to get my read on them.

Well I was mostly interested in J and Gheb because you are pushing for J and Gheb is pushing for you, I just threw in the other three because I just want to hear more about them.

Thank you. ;-; I'm trying to ask less questions.

Ah ok.

Gheb_01 said:
There is a boy with a one-lettered name
With no clear meaning or content behind
Numerous people have put him to blame
Were these suspicions clearly defined?

I saw nothing concrete that made me believe them to be right
Summarize your points before me for your points your issues you must recite!

Can you state how J isn't scum?

What did you expect EEtown to come in and do?

How is your Choice read holding up?

Give me scum picks behind EE.

ranmaru · May 25, 2011

Choice, how is your Gheb read holding up? Read on EE, J, and WL please.

Evil Eye · May 25, 2011

Alright last try: Your 855 said null, not null leaning scum, but also went all over the place in a waffley manner. 857 said null leaning scum. The 11 minute difference was kind of my point.

On scumJ, well, my first truly substantial post was a big push on Axel. J replaced Axel. The slot's wagon hit a wall. I investigated other things, intending to come back to J. Notice that I haven't left the thread yet? 'snot a coincidence.

Plus, although my big post ended up being very much a lynch case, I wanted to see what J would have to say in reply. His coasting made that more than a bit difficult to act on, no?

Evil Eye · May 25, 2011

Ninja'd. Was to Choice, obviously.

Choice · May 25, 2011

@ran:
ghebtown
EEnull
J (refer to 855/857)
WLtown

@EE:
yes...i dunno if theres a question there or not. my read is null/leaning scum on shin.

well his coasting doesn't stop you from presenting a case and trying to persuade others into seeing what you have observed. strong read to me implies theres already more than enough to work with to do such. why has his coasting made it more than difficult to act?

also i can't notice that you havent left the thread caz you're invis.

ranmaru · May 25, 2011

vVv Choice said:
if someone is null but you can see how they could be scum => null/leaning scum, right? thats my read.

nothing changed between #855 and #857. they were posted like 11 minutes apart and Shin hasnt done anything in more than 11 hours. if anything, 857 was what you're asking for now. a waffle free stance on shinarouji/the stance i'm taking.

if thats still not clear, its 4 AM and i'll try again after some sleep, sorry.

you say your strong reads right now include scumJ, how come i don't really see much action on that part? like i see a lot of questions being thrown around but if its such a strong read, i figure there should be a bigger push goin on.

Here is what EE means, Choice. You can SEE the possibility of Shina being scum, but that doesn't mean that they ARE being scum. It just means that you believe the possibility is there, and you'll have to find another reason why Shina is scum.

You say "Coasting is a scum tactic" meaning to say "Shina is coasting, and COULD be scum trying to fool us" correct?

Evil Eye · May 25, 2011

@Choice: Let's drop the shina thing for now.

I agree that coasting doesn't stop me from presenting a case -- but I had already presented a case that touched on everything I felt was scummy about him. I banged my drum a little more after that point, but oddly enough, more people expressed a "like" of the post(s) than commented on my J-case. So, as I said, I moved on to other things, waiting for more J material to work with. J posted more material, finally, and tonight/this morning I've been delving the thread happenings since my last showing. It's pretty simple.

I know that you can't see me, but I would've thought the fact that I've been posting consistently for hours would make that obvious lol

Choice · May 25, 2011

Ranmaru said:
Here is what EE means, Choice. You can SEE the possibility of Shina being scum, but that doesn't mean that they ARE being scum. It just means that you believe the possibility is there, and you'll have to find another reason why Shina is scum.

You say "Coasting is a scum tactic" meaning to say "Shina is coasting, and COULD be scum trying to fool us" correct?

yes, i figured it was implied seeing as that statement was juxtaposed to the rest of my read on Shin. i feel like this is a lot less complicated that you guys are making it.

#HBC | ѕoup · May 25, 2011

i agree EE, i see where you're coming in J being in a scum category, everyone hates how he buddied buddied you like that after being attacked, it doesn't make sense whatsoever and i've seen J do this multiple times.

i know it's meta, but still.

so EE, i have my pool of potential scummies, give me yours, note that even without the distancing case i made, the pool still (somewhat) stands.

ranmaru · May 25, 2011

vVv Choice said:
yes, i figured it was implied seeing as that statement was juxtaposed to the rest of my read on Shin. i feel like this is a lot less complicated that you guys are making it.

Explain the underlined.

Choice · May 25, 2011

ebwop: ok EE, sounds good. will read your post when i wake up.

#HBC | ѕoup · May 25, 2011

However, i'm taking a latter here and keeping J in the town category, i haven't seen enough from J, and i haven't seen J act enough to where i'm suspicious of him, he's much more passive in this game, or perhaps, much more passive in general; doesn't seem like ScumJ for me.

Choice · May 25, 2011

double ebwop: i'll explain after some sleep ran as ironic as explaining that statement is to me, i can see why it could need it.

Evil Eye · May 25, 2011

J, Gord, Choice, pretty much in that order. You perplex me, with ambivalent vibes, but I've said that I don't think you and J can be on a scumteam. My similar feelings for Choice are a big reason I want to lynch J, as I'd feel much better about both of you with what I consider to be a likely scumflip.

I'll detail that aforementioned perplexity in a bit, as well as an updated and summarized scumJ case. Gord, one may notice, is somewhat new to me.

Shina and Gandhi would both be great vigkills imo. Gord too, actually, since I'm still really feeling a J lynch. We'll see if I can bang my drum loud enough this time around, though.

Evil Eye · May 25, 2011

Quadruple ninja'd. Love it.

(not really)

Evil Eye · May 25, 2011

Soup, are you changing your scumteam then? Your scumteam revolves around an argument (or, rather, statement) of distancing, and yet the only one I have notable ties to is J, whom you're now calling town. And, hell, J-EE is the only pairing with notable connections. Unless you count that RVS wagon, which I'm betting you don't because you didn't include Laundry.

Gheb doesn't count because he was an afterthought.

Evil Eye · May 25, 2011

While you're at it, actually, what are your reads on my pool, and why?

Evil Eye · May 25, 2011

Gheb said:
The Evil Eye? ToDay he's made a case
But look! On whom he did I shall ask?
On a player that all day we gave chase!
The cruelest intentions such things do unmask

For what does it help to add heat to the one we've already charred?
Perhaps to look like we do - to play they "I'm one of you"-card!

Hella weak, Gheb. Blasting an indepth case out of my *** on someone untouched would be scummy too -- the differentiator is conviction. Frankly I don't give a **** if I'm after someone that's been touched on already; I want to lynch the people I think are scum.

Going out of my way to provide new trains of thought is far more blendy that attacking someone I find scummy that happens to have already been pressured. And I did dig up plenty of new things about the person I was after.

If you want to say I haven't done enough that's a whole other ball game, but assuming the worst about something as null as that is just baffling.

#HBC | ѕoup · May 25, 2011

well EE, i'm uncertain of you, as i said, my distancing case was too complex and didn't make sense, so i dropped it, HOWEVER...that doesn't mean i don't think some of those people in the list could be scum, i'm null on you right now, but i see more town and less danger every post you make.

and yes, i've changed (or will change) my scumteam sooner or later, i gotta hear from Ryker still, i don't like gord still, but i'm content with you now, so filling in that third gap can be deal with later, so i'm not clogging the thread.

Shina and Gandhi would both be great vigkills imo. Gord too, actually, since I'm still really feeling a J lynch. We'll see if I can bang my drum loud enough this time around, though.

Agree on the vigkills.

so, why J over Gordo? they're both your scumpicks.

ranmaru · May 25, 2011

EE, does that change your read on Gheb a bit?

#HBC | ѕoup · May 25, 2011

ninja'd

While you're at it, actually, what are your reads on my pool, and why?

Disagree on J, as stated.

Agree on Gord, as stated, he's useless and scummy all around, but he reads off to me as really ****ing stupid over really ****ing scummy.

Disagree on Choice, i have a newtown read on him over a scum read, but i've made this mistake before once, i let the newbies slip from me when they were scum, i'll get back to you on this slot.

Evil Eye · May 25, 2011

@Soup: Because, Soup, sometimes you say things I really like. And sometimes you say weird ****, like the scumteam, or that early play that still gives me a mild chill when I read it. Choice is quite similar -- some of his responses to my initial pressure were reasonable, but a lot of what I didn't like still stands, both before and after the benchmark of my post. And everytime I lose conviction from that read, Circus makes a damn good point about him.

I have J and Gordo about even, but J's flipping scum would allow me to like you and Choice a whole lot more. That's two mislynches I could do without

Evil Eye · May 25, 2011

@Ran: Not really. If Gheb misunderstood my intentions as pressure, rather than lynch pressure, his lil' anti-EE poem holds a bit of water. Even if he didn't, eh. I'd expect this from him. He respects me, and that means he will be wary about me for at least a while, even if I don't agree with why he does so.

ranmaru · May 25, 2011

Kk. I thought it was null because it can go either way.

Does it feel like he has forgotten about Choice? He has pushed for Choice earlier and never went back on him.

#HBC | ѕoup · May 25, 2011

yeah i do say some weird **** sometimes, but i caught myself and remembered occam's razor.

#HBC | ѕoup · May 25, 2011

i'll get back to you on choice, i've been..y'know, kinda ignoring him.

~ Gheb ~ · May 25, 2011

Ranmaru said:
Can you state how J isn't scum?

There's an important rule that you just forgot
We call it "innocent until proven guilty"
Show me how he's evil - I show you how he's not
But I can't clear him before you show me why he's filthy!

Evil Eye said:
Hella weak, Gheb. Blasting an indepth case out of my *** on someone untouched would be scummy too -- the differentiator is conviction. Frankly I don't give a **** if I'm after someone that's been touched on already; I want to lynch the people I think are scum.

Then convince me of the authenticity
Of the points that you have brought
For you will rather impress me with simplicity
Than impervious walls of thought

If you use ten thousand words for what you can say with only twelve
The benefit is not for all of us but for no one but yourself!

#HBC | ѕoup · May 25, 2011

:/

i'm looking back and i still read noobtown over scum, but circus does make some good points when he does confront choice, so i think instead of trying to decipher post by post, i'll look at what circus questioned choice for.

ranmaru · May 25, 2011

@Gheb: What is your read on Choice?

#HBC | J · May 25, 2011

EE, I would like to see more of what you have against my slot. The stuff you presented was good but I'm a little curious after going over it a bit. It seems to revolve a bit around how well you say you can read my meta and that you know my meta to a degree. Also can you draw out the line why a scumJ gives you townChoice/townSoupa. If scumChoice were to be the case what are your thoughts then. Or a scumGord? Does that change your previous reads?

#HBC | J · May 25, 2011

Evil Eye said:
I have J and Gordo about even, but J's flipping scum would allow me to like you and Choice a whole lot more. That's two mislynches I could do without

The wording of this bothers me which is where my questions derive from. It may just be me being nitpicky but it seems weird.

Ran, why do I get the feeling you aren't following up on any of the questions you are asking?

Evil Eye · May 25, 2011

I'm still digging into pretty much everything you've just questioned. The meta in my original case can't be proven or disproven since it's going to boil around who posted and I only have your word on who posted what, and I'm suspicious of you. But there was a great deal in there about disliking particular things that Axel said or did, where I would note that I still feel the points stand even if it seemed Zen had actually said what bothered me.

And that's a big thing. Your reply to a lot of things was "that was Zen", and/or "man whether I AtE or don't I JUST CAN'T WIN (but also that was Zen)". Then when meta ceased mention in my case you said "That was Zen, but I guess I have to answer to everything he said." Which was a bit late for such an attitude.

I pointed out the specific things that I felt showed you could not be scum with Soup/Choice within the case itself but I'll dig those specific moments up later. Where I "draw the line" is a bit of a loaded question, such reads always come down to how interplay between slots progresses over time and the perceived sincerity as such.

If Choice were to flip scum I would feel better about you, but of course the things I'm bothered by with the Axel/J slot make up a longer rap sheet, so if we were to see evidence of an antitown indy you'd probably be one of my first suspects. If not I would look hard into the paper trail to reevaluate. Well, I'd do that either way, but you get me.

Scumdito wouldn't affect anything, because you gave him up as one of your scumpicks for what I felt were shaky reasons (same with Gheb), which could easily be busing and half-busing in that manner is a very common tactic for scum that faces likely peril in the near future.

Evil Eye · May 25, 2011

What about the wording bothers you? If you flip scum I would consider Soup and Choice likely town, and as such you flipping scum is beneficial to the town from my POV.

ranmaru · May 25, 2011

J said:
The wording of this bothers me which is where my questions derive from. It may just be me being nitpicky but it seems weird.

Ran, why do I get the feeling you aren't following up on any of the questions you are asking?

Expand on that please.

#HBC | ѕoup · May 25, 2011

EE, i will cross with that and say a scum flip on J would make me feel still indifferent about you, J is always somewhat selective with who he buddies as scum, while townj just buddies anyone, afaik.

and i'm still null leaning town with choice.

#HBC | J · May 25, 2011

Evil Eye said:
What about the wording bothers you? If you flip scum I would consider Soup and Choice likely town, and as such you flipping scum is beneficial to the town from my POV.

The way you said, "that's two mislynches I'd rather not have." Idk, I'm probably being paranoid about that and grammar arguements are very flimsy to push so I'm gonna drop it.

Could you bullet the major points why you find my slot scummy if it's not too much to ask? I really do not know how to defend myself at the current time but I guess I am gonna have to figure out some things.

EE, what do you consider on a townJ flip?

Ranmaru said:
Expand on that please.

The question is very clear, answer it.

Evil Eye · May 25, 2011

I would consider buddying an attacking EE anything random. It's actually a very common scum tactic with people that consider me formidable, and has been happening for years. Why fight the bull when you can try to make friends with it, right? I can think of at least four distinct cases of it in my years, from players of varying strength, and this would probably not be only the fifth but one among many I'm not remembering atm.

It would be a brilliant tactic if I wasn't always looking for it.

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