Pulp Fiction Mafia - Game over! - Mafia wins!

#HBC | ѕoup · Jun 2, 2011

His responses looked more agressive town, thus I made a case, I've been over this, gandhi ;D

~ Gheb ~ · Jun 2, 2011

A look in the shady past may reveal
Things that did not stand out before
What once seemed simple and real
Doesn't make much sense no more

I have looked in the past and realized upon looking closer
That behind some exchanges may hide an evil composer!

What happened between forty seven and fifty?
On me somebody imputed investigative powers!
For the introduction I had put in words so nifty
But the simplest meaning misinterpretation devours!

For I had not claimed to have any powers that I don't call my own
But whoever thought I have that power was clearly not alone!

But the washed and the chosen both commented
To jump a wagon they have used that excuse
For a legitimate case was never quite presented
What information did they want to break loose?

Did they want confirmation on my powers for their own good?
Where they the only one's that misunderstood?

~ Gheb ~ · Jun 2, 2011

109 also reeks of unwarranted pressure
Unless proven wrong we assume them to be friend!
Rereading makes my visions become fresher
And the evil within the chosen I can sense again

My quest to make sense of the past has just begun and will not stop so soon
Again I shall place my vote on the chosen for his play still seems opportune

Vote Choice

#HBC | Dancer · Jun 2, 2011

Vote Count

AfroGandhi (1) - J
J ()
Soupamario ()
Evil Eye ()
Gheb_01 ()
Circus ()
vVv Choice (1) - Gheb_01
Red Ryu ()
WashedLaundry (1) - Circus

Not voting: AfroGandhi, Soupamario, Evil Eye, vVv Choice, Red Ryu, WashedLaundry

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch!

Choice · Jun 2, 2011

i think i'm more inclined to believe Washscum rather than Afroscum, so i'm interested to hear your case J.

EE's posts regarding last nights deaths were weird to me honestly. especially with asking what happened with Ran, iunno just seemed fake and like just trying to create an easy topic to get onto/take the focus off of the flips of the people who died last night.

Choice · Jun 2, 2011

Gheb_01 said:
109 also reeks of unwarranted pressure
Unless proven wrong we assume them to be friend!
Rereading makes my visions become fresher
And the evil within the chosen I can sense again

i differ from you in this thought. i'm skeptical of everyone at the start and assume them all to be possibly scum, not friend(town). in order for me to see someone as other wise, i need a reason for it. i figure if coasting is scum's best tactic, those who coast will get left at the bottom for sure, and anyone that has scummy play will be right along there with them.

Afro Gandhi · Jun 2, 2011

Soupamario said:
His responses looked more agressive town, thus I made a case, I've been over this, gandhi ;D

What case? What are you talking about?

Evil Eye · Jun 2, 2011

vVv Choice said:
i think i'm more inclined to believe Washscum rather than Afroscum, so i'm interested to hear your case J.

EE's posts regarding last nights deaths were weird to me honestly. especially with asking what happened with Ran, iunno just seemed fake and like just trying to create an easy topic to get onto/take the focus off of the flips of the people who died last night.

Congratulations. You've blown the whole thing wide open. Aye, it was all part of my diabolical scheme, as I cleverly pretended to not catch what had transpired to divert attention from the game's first hard evidence, which I said in my own words "changes the ball game". And it seemed like such a good ruse, to fake a misunderstanding of what was actually embarrassingly obvious.

And I'd have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids.

Don't be stupid.

Evil Eye · Jun 2, 2011

Wash said:
Alright, I dunno what I can say to any of that. People bring up hardcore evidence to disbelieve you and you still chalk it up to your agenda? I'm not sure what I could say at all to anything you suggest.

Really though, what the hell are you talking about? Who's "people" here? Who's "you"? Is that supposed to be Gandhi and Jerkus, respectively? Because if so that's some hyperbolic bull **** right there friendo

Circus · Jun 2, 2011

vVv Choice said:
EE's posts regarding last nights deaths were weird to me honestly. especially with asking what happened with Ran, iunno just seemed fake and like just trying to create an easy topic to get onto/take the focus off of the flips of the people who died last night.

Really? This, coming from the guy whose first post of the game was this?

vVv Choice said:
i differ from you in this thought. i'm skeptical of everyone at the start and assume them all to be possibly scum, not friend(town). in order for me to see someone as other wise, i need a reason for it.

Why? Skepticism is fine, but why would you assume guilt and then look for proof of innocence? By design, most of the people in this game are town. Treating everyone as scum and working backwards to find the ones that actually aren't is so much more work for no reason. Be skeptical of your reads; reevaluate them from time to time, sure. But you have to be able to trust some people some of the time.

~ Gheb ~ · Jun 2, 2011

vVv Choice said:
i differ from you in this thought. i'm skeptical of everyone at the start and assume them all to be possibly scum, not friend(town). in order for me to see someone as other wise, i need a reason for it. i figure if coasting is scum's best tactic, those who coast will get left at the bottom for sure, and anyone that has scummy play will be right along there with them.

So why was it on Axel to show his reasons first?
What were yours to choose him before the others?
Did you actually think that among us he's the worst?
Or were you just told to do it by your evil brothers?!

I believe not a word you say unless you can show me your explanation
On why you'd vote him over anybody else without the slightest hesitation!

#HBC | Laundry · Jun 2, 2011

I think I understand what Gheb's up to here. Coincidentally enough, I had similar questions for Choice in hindsight.

vote: Choice

#HBC | Laundry · Jun 2, 2011

Evil Eye said:
Really though, what the hell are you talking about? Who's "people" here? Who's "you"? Is that supposed to be Gandhi and Jerkus, respectively? Because if so that's some hyperbolic bull **** right there friendo

oh

10oreohs

#HBC | Laundry · Jun 2, 2011

Circus said:
Hardcore evidence? Like retroactively claiming to not want to put Gord at L-1 yesterDay clears you or something? Get outta here with that garbage.

If you can't defend yourself, you can't defend yourself; don't try to dress it up. Do you take issue with the conclusion I'm drawing from the last post I quoted from you? If so, fight me on it. Make me believe you.

Yes, I take issue with it. I take issue with the concept of "seeking townie points." It comes off as a bull**** tell if you can (read: key word here) sit here and essentially twist things happening to fit the concept of it in order to further your case. It seems like you've twisted a lot of things I've done from the end of the Gorf wagon to now to fit this "seeking town points" point and I can't really say a damn word about it because it's such a malleable thing.

Choice · Jun 2, 2011

Gheb_01 said:
So why was it on Axel to show his reasons first?
What were yours to choose him before the others?
Did you actually think that among us he's the worst?
Or were you just told to do it by your evil brothers?!

I believe not a word you say unless you can show me your explanation
On why you'd vote him over anybody else without the slightest hesitation!

you gotta start somewhere. to my memory, ryker was the first to toss the vote who's flipped town now. do you really think it was some elaborate plan thought up by scum? if i was scum, would i really have had time to discuss with them between when ryker tossed his vote on him and whenever i cast my vote? come on now.

i've explained my vote several times now, but i'll throw it out there once again. in the dexter mafia game, ryker had that wagon at the start on rajam and i thought it was a legit way of starting the day and so i followed suit in this game (the fact that i didnt in the other game is irrelevant but i can explain that too if you like). after that fact, gheb said weird things about having visions last night. I thought this referred to Night 0, which is why in one of my posts i said something like "this wagon could actually be legit?" or something like that. thus i stayed on the wagon for longer and when his responses were terribad, it made him look hella scummy.

there was no reason to chose him before others other than ryker had thrown a vote on him, and i figured a wagon to start the day, get reads and responses out of = much better than remaining in RVS for a bit doing rando things/wasting time.

when i cast my vote, no i did not think he was the worst among us or somethin. did you seriously think i did? a lot of these questions seem reachy to me. you had a vote on him at the time too, did you really think he was the worst? were you told by your evil brothers to throw down that vote and make up that vision crap?

as the wagon went along i did think he was the scummiest, but then nothing was really happening with that wagon/no information was being gotten and it'd be a waste of time to just spend the day banging our heads against a wall of "i dont know what i should say to defend myself" instead of investigating other people.

Choice · Jun 2, 2011

Circus said:
Really? This, coming from the guy whose first post of the game was this?

Yes? I don't see the connection between these two honestly. The contexts are vastly different.

That was start of day 1, there was nothing else that had happened. I also was seriously not sure if he was. Is it a crime having not read any of the sign up posts for this game in the sign up thread (i'm guessing they said they'd hydra there)? i never once posted that i wanted in on this game so i would not know. gheb pm'd me saying people playing the large game were gonna play the small caz the Game Mod was mia and asked me if i wanted to play this so i didnt know anything about the player set up.

EE's post is on day 2, quite a bit more had happened at this point. Did i say "EE's post is bad, lets lynch him!" or somethin like that? no i just said i wasnt a fan of it essentially and thought it wasnt necessary. I also posted before i read EE's post later that it didnt occur to him that Ryker was the other half of the lover set most likely. i still don't like people saying they're glad x is dead when x is town, but maybe thats just me being naive.

Why? Skepticism is fine, but why would you assume guilt and then look for proof of innocence? By design, most of the people in this game are town. Treating everyone as scum and working backwards to find the ones that actually aren't is so much more work for no reason. Be skeptical of your reads; reevaluate them from time to time, sure. But you have to be able to trust some people some of the time.

I assume this caz this is what made sense to me when i first played the game. This is also why i dislike all the "holding hands" stuff, like its to easy for scum to get away with something like that i feel.

what you're saying makes sense in terms of my approach requiring more work, but is one more right than the other? possibly. i think probably the fact that i'm guessing everyone else approaches the game as you're saying makes it more than likely its the correct way if there is one that is more correct, but if i were to go back from the start of this game and try it out that way reading through everyone's posts that would take even more work. I am skeptical of my reads, and i do trust some people some of the time, but even in that trust there is skepticism.

Choice · Jun 2, 2011

WashedLaundry said:
I think I understand what Gheb's up to here. Coincidentally enough, I had similar questions for Choice in hindsight.

vote: Choice

Washed, this vote looks hella scummy to me. What are your similar questions? What's been keeping you from asking them?

#HBC | Laundry · Jun 2, 2011

Mainly the fact that you went after Axel primarily. Gheb, Ryker, Gorf, EE, and I all had a common reason to vote Axel and we all knew it. You didn't. I'm suspicious of your smooth attempt at joining the bandwagon and Gheb brings up a fair point that I considered in my reread--why did you join the Axel wagon? Your comments of "everyone is scum till proven town" make me question why you went after him first. The logical--and most obvious/simple answer (Occam's Razor)--suggests ease.

#HBC | Laundry · Jun 2, 2011

And I didn't ask them because Gheb had similar questions and I wasn't going to make the question redundant/useless. I'm not giving away answers, Choice.

#HBC | Laundry · Jun 2, 2011

The reason why I'm telling you now is because you gave an answer. Now let's go over said answer.

vVv Choice said:
you gotta start somewhere. to my memory, ryker was the first to toss the vote who's flipped town now. do you really think it was some elaborate plan thought up by scum? if i was scum, would i really have had time to discuss with them between when ryker tossed his vote on him and whenever i cast my vote? come on now.

If you were in on it? Yes. I know why Ryker and Gheb started it, I know why they did it--it was actually a plan they had had since before they all switched from LoTR mafia, so it's not indictive to their alignment. Saying "If I were scum with them" is also a terrible thing because it's a void point now. Derp.

By the way, the "If I were x, would I do y" argument is a terrible, fallacious, and unprovable argument. Do not use it.

were you told by your evil brothers to throw down that vote and make up that vision crap?

why the **** would you say this **** yet not have a vote on him? dumb.

as the wagon went along i did think he was the scummiest, but then nothing was really happening with that wagon/no information was being gotten and it'd be a waste of time to just spend the day banging our heads against a wall of "i dont know what i should say to defend myself" instead of investigating other people.

Choice · Jun 2, 2011

WashedLaundry said:
Mainly the fact that you went after Axel primarily. Gheb, Ryker, Gorf, EE, and I all had a common reason to vote Axel and we all knew it. You didn't. I'm suspicious of your smooth attempt at joining the bandwagon and Gheb brings up a fair point that I considered in my reread--why did you join the Axel wagon? Your comments of "everyone is scum till proven town" make me question why you went after him first. The logical--and most obvious/simple answer (Occam's Razor)--suggests ease.

I just explained that a few posts up as well as your statement following that one.

WashedLaundry said:
And I didn't ask them because Gheb had similar questions and I wasn't going to make the question redundant/useless. I'm not giving away answers, Choice.

What i mean is how come you didnt ask prior to gheb? it just seems like an empty claim to me. i'm not asking you to answer my questions for me or something, i already responded to them. why are you saying that you're not giving away answers?

Choice · Jun 2, 2011

WashedLaundry said:
why the **** would you say this **** yet not have a vote on him? dumb.

caz its rhetorical. in case you missed it, i'm expressing that Gheb's questions could just as well apply to him. you guys discussed some plan before the game started and so now you're all free of it but anyone else who does similarly is scum? does this really make sense to you?

prior to this game starting i had planned on going with Ryker's wagon deal just as he did in dexter if that was happening again. is that really the type of defense you find acceptable? its honestly true, but going into it i was well aware that it was not a very clean thing to do and that i might have to attest to why i did such a thing.

#HBC | Red Ryu · Jun 3, 2011

Evil Eye said:
@RR: You were all over some Ranmaru yesterday. What do you think of his flip? What does that change for you?

What's your game plan for today? Put on your captain hat.

Town or not didn't like is play. Him being mason lovers with Ryker would answer somethings about them and some more questions I have. Washed is one of my first to look at right now. Ryker seemed gun ho for WL, J, and myself.

This changes my look at the players left, two of my scum picks died, one was Gord yesterday and Shin was another. With Ryker and Ran gone it means I need to look at clashes between them and other players, a lot of connection have been shown now, and there is more to work with.

My game plan is to figure out what leads we have and to go from there. So far, WL and Afro are my focus, right now I gotta sleep so I shall pursue these another time. I wish I had a captain hat. :<

#HBC | J · Jun 3, 2011

Circus said:
J, if you're going to push for Afro toDay, you better start building a case.

Hey Circus, do you mind pointing out where your WL case is? If you bring up that one paragraph I'm going to laugh because that is simply not a case. EE's case on me is a case. My cases on both Ran/Gord were cases, I even had a little section to WL. You however have not presented a case as you call it on WL but continuously say he is scum.

I'll get to the rest now but this needed it's own post.

#HBC | J · Jun 3, 2011

Circus said:
What is the point of saying these things unprovoked? Also, is this what you consider "keeping things close to the chest?"

Vote: Washed

I will see that one dead toDay, hell or high water. Get back to bussing J, buddy.

I am kind of surprised there's actually a killing role other than the mafia in this game though....

Why not say things unprovoked? Nope, I have some reads that I have that need more development.

Your last line is hella off.

Afro Gandhi said:
Chainsaw is not WIFOM, chainsaw defence is a solid tell when the chainsawed one flips scum. Why are you even trying to debate this?

Your opinion vs. My opinion

Afro]I know you asked me to explain my WL read said:
WL read[/URL]

I ask people to read my defenses and people say no, so I make them a condensed version of everything. Don't talk to me about re-reading/doing extra stuff. Also I asked you that because when I did re-read I didn't see anything beneficial and that post was over 1,000 posts ago. That's not explanation of your updated views.

Afro said:
Cricus & Choice:

Wait, so that's everything you are substantiating your reads of Choice/Circus? Something about 1,000 posts ago?

Afro said:
@Gheb: What happened to the conviction of Choicescum if Gord town? Do you still stick to that?

@Soup: I'll do a re-skim to decide between J/Choice/WL but I'm pretty confident its J still. Might even ask the hairy one what he thinks, I'm kinda thrown since most of the people on the Gord wagon I was kinda fine with :/

At your Gheb question, even I know you are making that up because he never said that.

Why did you add that last line in your Soupa question? The only purpose it has is to subtly buddy people.

vVv Choice said:
i think i'm more inclined to believe Washscum rather than Afroscum, so i'm interested to hear your case J.

Yet, you are willing to follow someone who hasn't presented a case himself but ask for me to bring one. Why haven't you done any scum-hunting yourself/pursue who you think is scum OR do something that isn't following the mainstream of the game. This is just another example of you being a parasite to others reads.

Choice/Afro scum.
WL is back in nulls, and I don't support his lynch anymore.

#HBC | J · Jun 3, 2011

I'd vote Choice for a couple of reasons to put him at L-2 and I have no problem with his lynch but I wanna continue pushing Afro.

#HBC | J · Jun 3, 2011

EE/Gheb, tell me why you like Circus again and what is your current read on him?

Soupa, Choice or Afro?

Circus, if you present an actual case on WL, I might oblige you with a case on Afro.

~ Gheb ~ · Jun 3, 2011

J said:
EE/Gheb, tell me why you like Circus again and what is your current read on him?

The Circus Clown is a fellow of possible danger!
Not yet he seems to have made an unwise move
While he appears to be an expert arranger
He still has left a lot to prove!

#HBC | ѕoup · Jun 3, 2011

J said:
Soupa, Choice or Afro?

Choice of course, but i'm also looking at RR now, i don't like this post:

Red Ryu said:
Town or not didn't like is play. Him being mason lovers with Ryker would answer somethings about them and some more questions I have. Washed is one of my first to look at right now. Ryker seemed gun ho for WL, J, and myself.

This changes my look at the players left, two of my scum picks died, one was Gord yesterday and Shin was another. With Ryker and Ran gone it means I need to look at clashes between them and other players, a lot of connection have been shown now, and there is more to work with.

My game plan is to figure out what leads we have and to go from there. So far, WL and Afro are my focus, right now I gotta sleep so I shall pursue these another time. I wish I had a captain hat. :<

This paragraph here is evidently useless and it looks more like a pretend reason, sure, he says "yep guys i'm gonna scumhunt lol" but all the while it states the obvious and is somewhat selective with what he says, for example, my bolded. his only focus are the main two figures of interest right now, he lacks effort, and therefore i'm gonna see if this type of style commits to what else he has done, and to be honest, not much, as i re-call.

tl;dr i'm looking at RR now and will have a case soon, i'll deal with choice later as he is already a main target and we all can corroborate in a decision on him.

#HBC | ѕoup · Jun 3, 2011

Also, i'm not worried about Afro at the moment, J, if you wish to make a case about him i will look at it but i'm going to focus on my main point of interest.

#HBC | ѕoup · Jun 3, 2011

Vote: Red Ryu

this where my votes sits for now, i've re-read and i do not like what i see.

#HBC | J · Jun 3, 2011

Kay, thank you Gheb and Soupa. All I need is EE now. Then maybe I can say more.

Circus · Jun 3, 2011

J, I told you to get an Afro case started because right now it looks like you plucked him at random. Yet you say you've had some "revelations" after a reread. Then you said that you were going to keep a lot of what you discovered "close to the chest," but then immediately decided to give away some reads you have on people without being asked to do so. But you didn't present any reason for your suspicion of Afro. Do you see why that seems completely backwards and hypocritical to me?

There is also absolutely no reason you should be holding an Afro case hostage until I present a Washed case that is to your liking. If he's scum, show me why. My opinion on Washed and my reasons for forming that opinion are not related to this at all. You are acting scummy as **** right now.

I'm running out of time, so I'll have to get back to this later tonight.

#HBC | J · Jun 3, 2011

Circus, the reason of difference is huge, you've been calling Washed scum this entire game. Without a single case. Shouldn't you already have one if you are so sure you come into toDay just voting him?

Also random? How about you read twilight before the flip. And I'm not holding it hostage, but it's not the right time.

I'm asking you since you are sooooo sure on Washed scum, where is your case on him? Instead you try and re-direct it to me about Afro.

#HBC | Red Ryu · Jun 3, 2011

Soup thinks I'm scum, not sure what his case is but ok I'll see what he says later when I'm done with work.

Circus · Jun 3, 2011

J said:
Circus, the reason of difference is huge, you've been calling Washed scum this entire game. Without a single case. Shouldn't you already have one if you are so sure you come into toDay just voting him?

Also random? How about you read twilight before the flip. And I'm not holding it hostage, but it's not the right time.

I'm asking you since you are sooooo sure on Washed scum, where is your case on him? Instead you try and re-direct it to me about Afro.

I didn't redirect anything. I asked you to give me something to look at regarding Afro completely independently of anything else.

And you're right. I have been on Washed all game. Which is exactly why some big quote-filled case is less necessary from me—because I've been pointing out his **** as I see it. You're the one who has just decided that Afro is scum, and as a result, you are the one who has to go back and show what you saw in his old posts that makes him look scummy now. But regardless, my suspicion of Washed still isn't related to your suspicion of Afro AT ALL. And the fact that you're trying to tangle this up in this way is ********. If Afro's scum, show me why, full stop. You should not need anything from me about Washed in order to do that.

Okay, seriously, I'm gone. Be back later.

Evil Eye · Jun 3, 2011

@J: I wasn't aware I'd already offered a read on Circus. I like Circus, and have liked him, because has brought up legitimate issues with users that often mirror my own thoughts. And the logic by which he reaches them is good.

Completely agreed with him in your spat, by the way. His suspicions of Laundry have been rather apparent to me this entire time, while you've teased revelations about Gandhi and kept them to yourself. While simultaneously offering town reads for no particularly good reason. Hiding scumpicks and showing town reads? What is this, opposite day?

J, what's your read on RR? On Soup?

#HBC | J · Jun 3, 2011

Towny on RR, Town-Town-Town on Soupa.

I've only been holding one card really.

~ Gheb ~ · Jun 3, 2011

J, telling us why you think tha Ghandi is bad
has nothing to do with the washed and the Clown
This matter is not just between you two to be had
Upon your egoism I can't help but look down

Denying a service to all of us because you put your own benefit higher?
You don't play for yourself - everybody is what each of us require!

#HBC | Laundry · Jun 3, 2011

vVv Choice said:
I just explained that a few posts up as well as your statement following that one.

What i mean is how come you didnt ask prior to gheb? it just seems like an empty claim to me. i'm not asking you to answer my questions for me or something, i already responded to them. why are you saying that you're not giving away answers?

I didn't ask them prior to Gheb because I was rereading things at that point (mostly the Axel wagon as I was rechecking my stance on it) and the thought of you joining it made me entirely cautious. I withheld once I noticed what Gheb was asking. I didn't add onto it because I didn't want to influence how you answered.

Pulp Fiction Mafia - Game over! - Mafia wins!

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