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Stage Information Database and Q&A

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
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Wait, without codes you can pick one or the other? I did not know.

Works fine for me, since I wanted to replace 1-2 with Metal Cavern.
 

ぱみゅ

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Okay, so there's a version 1.5 of my ruleset (not sure if call it a fancy name).

First off, the Ruleset prime:
Everithing in the game should remain as it is, unless it is proven to change the game drastically due to certain actions. In this case, they are either limited or banned, depending on the action itself.

Game Settings
Stocks: 3
Timer: 09:00 minutes
Items are set on OFF and NONE
Pause: OFF
Team Attack: ON

Before Game One
1. One player is chosen at random, via a Coin toss, a Rock-Paper-Scissors game, or whatever method they agree. Winner chooses if either chooses Ports first or makes the First Stage Strike*. The non-chosen option is given to the other part.
2. If needed, any Controller adjustments or settings are made.
3. Players select their characters.
3.1. If this selection isn't made quickly, a Double Blind Pick (telling their choice to a judge, both MUST choose the character they told him/her they would) may be called.
3.2. In the case that a part choses Lucario, Pokemon Trainer or Sonic, they can call for use a specific color. If both bands uses any of them, the one that selected ports first has preference on color selection as well.
4. Stage Striking procedure begins.*
4.1. If both parts agree, they can choose any stage to play in, instead of the Strike process.
5. Game starts in the stage chosen in 4.

The Game
-The one who loses their 3 stocks first Loses de Game.
-If a Sudden Death is forced because of a "Suicidal Move" ** that ends both players' last stocks at the same time, the winner is the one that initiated the Move.
-If the timer runs out, the one with more Stocks left is declared the winner. If both are the same, the one with less damage is the winner.
[Doubles] Sharing Stock is allowed.

Restrictions
-Stalling (the act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict for long periods) is banned.***
-Any Glitch/Bug/Exploit that can be used to stall out the timer excessively, or that causes any game malfunction, interruption or freeze, is forbidden. ***
-Any Lock/Infinite must end as soon as possible after reaching 300%. Otherwise, it might be considered unnecessary stalling.
-In the event of a Timeout involving a Metaknight occurs, a player may call the revision of the “Ledge Grabs” statistic at the results screen. If the Meta Knight player exceeded 40, the victory is given to their opponent. If both are Meta Knight and both exceeded it, the one with less Ledge Grabs is considered the winner. If neither did, the stock-damage rule is followed. If the suspicious player doesn't allow this statistic to be revised, the win may be assigned to their opponent.
-Any non-compliance on these points can (and should) be reported to a judge/TO. The penalty of those is entirely their decision and players involved must abide them.

After Game One
1. Winner Selects character.
2. Loser Selects character.
3. Winner might announce up to 3 stage bans from the Stagelist.
4. Loser chooses any Stage from the Stagelist, except any of the ones mentioned in 3.
5. Next game starts.
6. Repeat as many times as necessary until the Best-of-3 or Best-of-5 is decided.

*** "Infinite Dimensional Cape" is an example of these.

** Ganondorf's Flame Choke and Bowser's Flying Slam are examples of "Suicidal Moves". Kirby's/King Dedede's Inhale and Wario's Bite are not.

* For Stage Striking, is the usage of the Random Stage Screen is recommended, by turning every stage on the Legal list as “on”, and then change them to "off" as they are stroke. The goal of this is remove, one by one, all stages until only one is left. From the given 21 stage list, the first player strikes 4, then, from the 17 stages left the second player strikes 4; then the first player strikes 3, the second one 3, the first 2, the second 2, the first 1, and finally, the second strikes 1. If done correctly, there should be only 1 stage left.

StageList:
01- Battlefield
02- Final Destination
03- Delfino Plaza
04- Pirate Ship
05- Norfair
06- Frigate Orpheon
07- Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
08- Battleship Halberd
09- Lylat Cruise
10- Pokémon Stadium 2
11- Port Town Aero Drive
12- Castle Siege
13- Distant Planet
14- Smashville
15- Pictochat
16- Yoshi's Island (Melee)
17- Jungle Japes
18- Green Greens
19- Rainbow Cruise
20- Brinstar
21- Pokémon Stadium (Melee)

Stage Ban Criteria:
If a stage contains any of the following elements, it will be considered banned from the stagelist:
[Permanent Wall] Allows inescapable setups in most cases and helps to rack up high amounts of damage, even if skill is not involved.
[Permanent Flat Walk-off] Creates a high risk-high reward situation, and/or an easy way to take stocks via Chain-Throwing; any of them is unsuitable for competitive play. However, if there's a slope that leads to the walkoff, these situations can be avoided in most cases, so they're allowed.
[Ceilings] When a non-passable platform is above the lowest one allows characters to live up to very high damages, even if there's no DI/Tech Skill involved. This doesn’t fit in competitive play.
[Permanent Circle] “Camping” is avoiding battle by staying in a certain spot. "Circle Camping" is defined as the action of avoid direct confrontation by moving through the stage layout while staying away from their opponents. This is banned since it might be considered stalling.
[Randomness] Whenever a stage contains any random/hazardous element that cannot be avoided in any way (it affects/hits 100% of the time it is activated), it shall be banned. Other than that, any random/hazardous element is ignored as for ban criteria. Only features with “unavoidable” characteristic are Wario Ware’s Judgments (bonuses after each mini-game) and Rumble Falls’ Speed Ups.

Given the former ban criteria, there may be some public disagreements with stage legality. I’ll step back a little and explain the ones I think should be the most common ones:
-Port Town Aero Drive doesn’t fall for any of the criteria mentioned above.
-Green Greens may or may not fall under the “Circle” criteria.
-Yoshi’s Island (Melee) may or may not fall under the “Ceiling” criteria.

Banned Stages:
Luigi’s Mansion [Ceiling]
Mushroomy Kingdom [Walkoff]
Mario Circuit [Walkoff]
Rumble Falls [Randomness]
Bridge of Eldin [Walkoff]
Spear Pillar [Ceiling/Circle]
Wario Ware [Randomness]
New Pork Town [Ceiling/Circle]
Skyworld [Ceiling]
Summit [Ceiling/Circle]
75m. [Circle]
Mario Bros. [Ceiling/Walkoff]
Flat Zone 2 [Walkoff]
Hanenbow [Circle]
Shadow Mosses Island [Wall/Walkoff]
Green Hills Zone [Walkoff]
Temple [Wall/Ceiling/Circle]
Onett [Walkoff]
Corneria [Wall]
Big Blue [Circle]


The TL;DR (with justifications)
Time: 9mins [max 3mins average per stock, that should be enough time...]
Pause: OFF [Reallisctically people wouldn't need to pause except in the case of an emergency... Resolution should be TO discression, tho...]

Before game 1: choose chars first, then start Stage Strike.
FULL 21-STAGE LIST STRIKE (1-1-1-1-2-2-2-2-1-1-1-2-2-2-1-1-2-2-1-2) [see below]
Before game 2 and further: winner choose char, loser choose char, winner bans up to 3 stages, loser choose stage.

Suicide move wins if drawn on screen result. Inhale and Bite are not Suicide Moves.
Timeout: Stock/damage.
LGL: 40, MetaKnight only [the only one mathematically broken]
Infinites must end ASAP @300%. [300% is the SuddenDeath amount, so it's basically the game itself saying that is the time for the "final blow"]
IDC forbidden. [HA may be forbidden if it gets proven to be truly broken]

Da List:
Battlefield
Final D
Delfino
Pirate Ship
Norfair
Orpheon
YI:B
Halberd
Lylat
PS2
PTAD
Siege
DPlanet
Smashville
Picto
YI:M
Japes
Green Greens
Rainbow
Brinstar
PS1

Ban criteria:
Permanent wall, perma flat walkoff, perma ceiling, perma circle and unavoidable randomness. Everything else is allowed.
PTAD doesn't fall on any criteria.
GGs maybe falls under Circle. [Innocent until proven bannable]
YI:M maybe falls under Ceiling. [Innocent until proven bannable]


I'm each time less and less convinced that Ruddercamping and getting under Halberd's desk are ban-worthy... They are not
Still thinking on forced Sudden Death scenarios
 

John12346

Smash Master
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You keep saying Wario's Bite and Kirby/D3's Inhale aren't suicide moves, but what happens if a sudden death is forced by them anyway?
 

ぱみゅ

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Make them win would be silly...
Make them play the SD because they forced it would imply SD rules...
Make them lose would be even silier but would prevent it...

That happens when you make a ruleset without sleep lol
Guess I'll need more revisions later...
 

Ghostbone

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The 300% rule is fine and shouldn't be changed. Anyone that's good at mashing won't let the opponent waste too much time.

And it's not really arbitrary either as it's the same percentage you start out with for Sudden Death, and every character is able to kill at that percent.
 

ぱみゅ

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It may change the way chaingrabs are played right now, but was supposed to be like that.
I mean, currently is "CG until he's at kill damages and finish".
With my rule is about "CG does stupid amout of damage. Battle and find a way to kill opponent" (see how locks work). What's wrong with making chaingrabs non absolutely decisive?

Anyways, I'll debate later, I need to sleep...
 

Ghostbone

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It may change the way chaingrabs are played right now, but was supposed to be like that.
I mean, currently is "CG until he's at kill damages and finish".
With my rule is about "CG does stupid amout of damage. Battle and find a way to kill opponent" (see how locks work). What's wrong with making chaingrabs non absolutely decisive?

Anyways, I'll debate later, I need to sleep...
Because they're infinites, it makes no sense to not allow an infinite to kill.

Infinites in other games end in death, you don't have a "stop when the other player's health is low" rule. Same thing applies here, except they don't end, so we make them end in death.

Otherwise you have stupidity like Sheik or Pikachu being able to guarantee a kill because theirs isn't an infinite, but D3 can't.
 

ぱみゅ

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Because this is a fighting game just like others, right?
And, for the record, infinites are actually banned on other games (like KoF arcade, where Vanessa's infinite -or Vanessa herself- was banned pretty much everywhere).

I'm basically not turning them into infinites, but merely chaingrabs/locks with no kill setup...

Also, I somewhat start disliking semantics... It may be considered infinite if is doable passing the limit -because it's not supposed to get any further-. Either that or I simply reword it.
 

Ghostbone

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Because this is a fighting game just like others, right?
And, for the record, infinites are actually banned on other games (like KoF arcade, where Vanessa's infinite -or Vanessa herself- was banned pretty much everywhere).

I'm basically not turning them into infinites, but merely chaingrabs/locks with no kill setup...
But why should we do that? You're specifically nerfing some characters and it becomes ******** when you consider that other characters do have kill set-ups and they get to finish their lock with a kill just because theirs isn't an infinite.
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
7,336
Actually, I find MK a fun MU on FD. It's the only reason I play on the stage.

Except as Dedede, but that goes without saying.

Also, I am now convinced that Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2 is a completely legitimate stage for competitive play. I'm working on a full thread outlining why. Also I'd like to confirm that Holding L/R makes it 1-2 GUARANTEED. WITHOUT CODES OF ANY KIND.

1-1 is still ruined by walkoff camping, but 1-2 doesn't really suffer from this. Walkoff camping on 1-2 is MUCH higher risk. Because they can just wait for the pipes, the moving platforms, the endpipe/wall... Dedede is easily beatable here, which is pretty surprising. You just have to realize that getting grabbed can mean a stock at the beginning part of the stage. But you can use the blocks very well to deal with him. The stage tends to hurt his chaingrab more than it helps.
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
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About 200% on average, but with fairly large deviation between 100% and 300%. Most deaths are low, but you get a lot of random stocks where poor stage knowledge comes into play on the part of someone going for the kill, and you get 300%, 350% techs (though keep in mind it becomes harder and harder to tech, and more and more likely you'll just go through the blocks and die anyways). Like trying to go for a kill off the right side at the very beginning part (which is silly), and going for vertical kills at most points (which are possible but hard, they have to break the block they hit). Seriously, if you know the stage and your character, you won't have too much trouble killing.
 

ぱみゅ

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*Back on my Ruleset thing*
Thanks to many posts here and there, I was wondering that I could base it on keeping as much of the raw game as possible -allow everything before start heavily degenerating game-:
-That'd be a justification to having many legal stages and the reason why we're setting a criteria.
-Rudderstalling and the Halberd Desk Glitch would be allowed.
-Only certain character-specific glitches would be banned (IDC mostly).
-No LGL? -Just in order to have consistency It would need to be proven broken...-
-GC/locks need to run free, only limiting it in order to avoid excessive stalling (could as well be considered offensive to other players), and setting it at 300% because it's the Sudden Death starting amount (is basically the limit game itself saying that is the tight moment for getting the final Blow).


Also, lol at my Ruleset name at the OP.
 
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It was gonna be Kyo's Super Fantastical Friendship Ruleset of Magical Pony Awesomeness but it was too long and I got lazy. :bee:
 

Tarmogoyf

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Finally posts a ruleset: (this one is gonna be liberal, will do conservative later)

3 stock
10 mins
Items off and none
Meta Knight cannot be selected. If chosen by random character select, the player(s) playing random restarts, choosing random again.

Set procedure is identical to Unity ruleset, except for stage striking.
Stage striking is in a 1-2-1-2-2-1 fashion.

Stages: Neutral
Smashville
battlefield
Delphino Plaza
Lylat cruise
Battleship Halberd
Pokemon stadium 2
Castle Siege

Stages: Counterpick
Final Destination
Pokemon stadium 1
Rainbow Cruise
Brinstar
Norfair
Jungle Japes
Yoshi's Island (brawl)
Frigate Orpheon
Pictochat
Pirate Ship


Additional Rules:
Hacks are completely banned, except infinite replays, or replays with tags. It's the responsibility of the TO to ensure no other hacks are used.
TOs must be notified of all setups being turned on or off, to ensure enforcement of hacks rule.
Other conduct rules (coaching, disruption of player via screaming at them, ect) are at the Tos discretion. If you think what you're doing is at all questionable, ask)


..........................................

It's not my Ideal ruleset (mostly needs more stages), but one I find to be reasonably practical.
 

ぱみゅ

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lol Metaban.

But, Halberd and Delfino over PS1 and Yoshi's on starters?????
Explain yourself.
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
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Messages
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Supreme Dirt's majorly WiP ruleset
Consisting only of a stagelist atm.

Battlefield|Final Destination
Smashville
Lylat Cruise
Order: Character choices -> Stage striking -> character choices -> ban -> counterpick[/SIZE] -> character choices -> ban -> counterpick
 
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Twinkie's TL;DR Preferred Ruleset of Laziness



Twinkie's Preferred Ruleset
-Version 1.0-

______________________________


General Gameplay Rules
  1. 3 Stocks
  2. 8 Minute Time Limit
  3. Items set to "Off" and "None"
  4. Meta Knight is banned in both Singles and Doubles
  5. All infinites and chain grabs are legal.
  6. The act of stalling is banned: stalling is intentionally making the game unplayable: Such as becoming invisible, continuing infinites, chain grabs, or uninterruptible moves past 300%, and reaching a position that your opponent can never reach you.
  7. Any action that can prevent the game from continuing (i.e., freezing, disappearing characters, game reset, etc.) will result in a forfeit of that match for the player that initiated the action. You are responsible for knowing your own character, and must be wary about accidentally triggering one of these effects.
  8. The winner will be declared by what the game says in all situations, except for when players are presented with sudden death:
    • In the event of a match going to time, the winner will be determined by who has less percent (stock difference still takes priority but will be shown in the results screen).
    • If the match ends with both players dying at the same time (either coincidentally or via suicide move) or if time ran out with both players at equal percent, a one stock four minute rematch will be played on the same stage.


Modified Rules for Doubles
  1. Team Attack set to "On"
  2. Life stealing is allowed.
  3. In the event of a game going to time and both teams have an equal amount of combined stocks, then whichever team has a lower combined percent is declared the winner.
  4. If a player is using the character Pokemon Trainer, Lucario, or Sonic, either team may request that team colors be changed to make it easier to tell the difference between team players.

Set Procedure
  1. Player Priority is determined if it can not be agreed on. (See below for details)
  2. Each Team selects one controller port to use for each Player.
  3. Each Team selects one character for each Player. A double blind pick may be called by any player.
  4. The Team with the higher port priority announces two stage bans for Games 1 and 2.
  5. The Team with the lower port priority announces a Stage from the Legal Stage List that they would like to play on.
  6. The first match is played.
  7. The last game is played on a Stage selected from the Legal Stage List through the Stage Striking Method. The order of stage striking will be 5-5-3-3-1-1-2 (Team 1 strikes five stages, followed by Team 2 striking five stages, with Team 1 then striking three stages, Team 2 striking three stages, Team 1 striking one stage, Team 2 striking two stages, and Team 1 striking one of the two remaining stages).
  8. In a Best of 5 Set, the Stages for Games 4 and 5 are picked from the last two Stages to be struck (If in Game 3, the last three remaining stages were FD, BF, and SV, and Game 3 was played on BF, then Games 4 and 5 are picked from either BF or FD).
  9. The team that lost the previous match may opt to re-pick controller ports (with themselves picking first).
  10. The Team that won the previous match may announce two "Stage Bans" if they have not already done so in this set.
  11. The Team that lost the previous match announces the stage for the next match from the Legal Stage List. Any Stage named as a "Stage Ban" by the either Team may not be selected. No Stage may be repeated in a set.
  12. The Team that won the previous match chooses one character for each Player.
  13. The Team that lost the previous match chooses one character for each Player.
  14. The next match is played.
  15. Repeat steps 6-11 for all proceeding matches.

Determining Player Priority
If there is a dispute in controller port selection or initiating Stage Strike use the following method:
Teams will use a random method such as Rock-Paper-Scissors, Coin Flip, or Game and Watch Judgment, where the winner selects either first choice in port selection or first choice in stage striking. Whichever team does not receive first choice in port selection will be compensated with first choice in stage striking.
Note: In Doubles, port selection is ordered 1-2-2-1 fashion (with Team-1 having first choice in controller slot select, Team-2 having both second and third choice, and the final slot going to Team-1).​

Stage List

Legal Stages | Additional Doubles Stages
Battlefield|Bridge of Eldin
Battleship Halberd|Corneria
Brinstar|Green Hill Zone
Castle Siege|Luigi's Mansion
Delfino Plaza|Mario Circuit
Distant Planet|Onett
Final Destination|Shadow Moses Island
Frigate Orpheon|Skyworld
Green Greens|
Jungle Japes|
Lylat Cruise|
Norfair|
Pictochat|
Pirate Ship|
Pokémon Stadium 1|
Pokémon Stadium 2|
Port Town Aero Dive|
Rainbow Cruise|
Smashville|
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)|
Yoshi's Island (Melee)|

Conduct Rules
  1. BYOC (Bring your own controller): Players are expected to bring their own controller and be prepared for every tournament set.
  2. In the event pause is left on accidentally and is pressed, immediately call over the TO. Based upon their judgment, the situation will be resolved. If your situation is neutral [players are not in combat], the match will be resumed as if the pause had not occurred. If your situation is advantageous to one individual and the player in the disadvantageous situation paused, the disadvantaged player will be either placed in a grab or onto the ledge of the stage. If a player in a death situation [Chain grabs, Grab releases, Jab-locks to a kill move, etc] paused while in a death situation, the current stock is forfeited immediately. If you unpause before the TO reaches the station, the player that unpaused losses a stock.
  3. During gameplay, any coaching parties must remain a finite distance determined by the TO away from the players in order to give players equal access to all coached information. Ear-side coaching is prohibited during games, but acceptable between games. Failure to adhere to this will lead to punishment at the TO's discretion, which could include the coach's removal from the venue or a call to replay the game that the coaching interfered with.
  4. Players who use the Wii Remote must take the batteries out of the Wii Remote when not playing. If the Wii Remote is still synced up to a Wii with the batteries in, you could unintentionally disrupt a match. If problems persist, a DQ may happen.
  5. You are responsible for your own controller and name tag. Any malfunctions or errors that occur are your responsibility (including battery issues with a Wii Remote), so bring an extra controller if possible and always check to make sure you're using the correct settings BEFORE a match is played. Both parties need to agree if a match is to be paused or restarted because of these problems.
  6. Intentional forfeiting, match fixing, splitting, and any other forms of bracket manipulation are not allowed and punishable by the TO.
  7. No substitutions are allowed for singles or doubles.
  8. DQ Rule: Arriving too late for a match will result in a DQ. Player(s) will have 5 minutes to show up before a loss of the first match. 5 more minutes results in a loss of the set. For doubles, both players on a team need to be present in order to play.
  9. The tournament organizer has the right to save/record any tournament match if possible and has the right to upload said match.
  10. Regarding textures and other game hacks:
    • Players may request that any texture, stage, or other hacks be disabled during a tournament set. If this is unable to be done, they may switch to a different setup if available.
    • The URC recommends players do not use intrusive texture and stage hacks.
    • Players are not allowed to use any game altering hacks, such as no-tripping or model hacks. If someone is caught setting up a system they brought with such hacks enabled can face punishment at the TO's discretion.
  11. Disrupting your opponent physically or intending to disrupt their play (through something such as screaming in a player's ear) will result in a warning. Repeated action will result in disqualification from the tournament and possibly ejection from the venue. Observers who physically disrupt players are to be dealt with as the Tournament Organiser sees fit. Disqualification is recommended if possible, and ejection from the venue is also a punishment.

Resolving Pool Ties
In the event two or more players are tied at the conclusion of a round of pools at a Unity Ruleset tournament, the following process will be done:

Players will be compared with each other on various criteria in this ordered precedence:
  1. Set Wins
  2. Head to Head
  3. Wins
  4. Losses
  5. One Game Rematch

If players are still tied on a step, you move down to the next one. For instance, if Player A and B both go 3-2 in sets in a round of pools, you will then proceed to the Head to Head step (who won the set between those players). Whoever won vs the other will proceed at the top of the tie.

If Head to Head (the result of the set between the players in question) can not decide a tie, then you would move down to the Wins step. This may occur in a three way tie where all three players defeated each other (however note that if one person in a three way tie defeats both other players, then the Head to Head comparison will be used).

If the tie breaker reaches all the way to the One Game Rematch step, this game will play out similar to the first game of any set (though doing best of one), where users will stage strike for the stage, and may double blind characters.

If at any point a tie of three or more players is partially resolved, still leaving two or more players tied, the tie between the remaining players will be decided by starting the tie breaker process over for them. For instance, if in a three way tie in the Wins step, one player has six wins while the others have 5, the player with 6 wins will be the top of the 3. The remaining two players will start back at Sets Wins to determine who is higher between the two instead of proceeding onto the Losses step right away.

•These rules are subject to change leading up to the event date. The Tournament Organizer reserves the right to remove you from the venue at his discretion for any reason.

•The Tournament Organizer and his assistants, and any persons helping run the event may not be held liable for any lost, stolen, or damaged goods during this event. Nor will the Tournament Organizer, the venue, its owners, affiliates, employees, members, sponsors, or volunteers be held liable or responsible for any injury or harm that may befall a person during the course of this event. By entering the venue during the posted date you are displaying your agreement with this policy.

Users can discuss this ruleset in the thread provided here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301033
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
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Messages
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Yeah, w/e. I don't support unannounced randomness, but I understand that other people don't mind it.
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
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Messages
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Yeah, I thought about it long and hard, and I just can't have it legal and then ban Picto for excessive unannounced randomness.

Same for Frigate. Second transformation's platforms can basically function as support ghosts/shy guys (against Ness/Lucas) combined.

Also, the whole CP issue is fixed by disallowing MK from picking from CP stages. My optimal ruleset in fact would have him banned.
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
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Messages
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Yeah, I know that ADHD.

I don't really care, for me it's more of a thought experiment.
 
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These rulesets are way to foreign from everything traditional to gain attendance.
Yeah, which is only why we're posting them here for fun (or at least most of us).

If I were to ever run a tournament, I would run Unity but with slight variations since my region is VERY conservative.
 
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