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- 26,545
it's when G&W's back is facing the upward part of the slope. test it out a bit with other chars if you think it happens with other chars.
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"common knowledge" that a lot of people don't know
- Thread starter Lovage
- Start date
youre welcome sveet
strongbad, i dont know what you mean about only kirby/jiggs can hold up, but you can most definitely be fox and hold up after hitting up b, get stomped, then just hit b without letting go of up
anyway, speaking of the timer of meteor canceling, ive been theorizing for a while that if you get meteored out of your up b as marth its impossible to meteor cancel because its too soon after the initial up b, as nobody ever seems to be able to do it no matter what
somebody count some frames and let me know
strongbad, i dont know what you mean about only kirby/jiggs can hold up, but you can most definitely be fox and hold up after hitting up b, get stomped, then just hit b without letting go of up
anyway, speaking of the timer of meteor canceling, ive been theorizing for a while that if you get meteored out of your up b as marth its impossible to meteor cancel because its too soon after the initial up b, as nobody ever seems to be able to do it no matter what
somebody count some frames and let me know
Superspright
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,334
If this is true, then edge-canceled double dairs with ganon are gonna be hell for everyone. Jiggs holds up going toward edge? Dair it--dair it again. Dies. Recover. Fox near edge up-bing for sweetspot? Dair--dair it again. :x Everything dies :D
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,545
holding up to buffer a jump is what I was referring to. yes, you can hold up and just time the B.
Fortress | Sveet
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lol sorry kaostar i'll mention the 20 degree range next time so you don't do a huge post making it seem like what i said was wrong instead of simply incomplete 
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,545
also roy's upsmash spike is 259 if someone didn't say that already
DAT MEMORY
DAT MEMORY
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
lol word. ftr tho, I don't mind making huge posts that nobody reads lol.lol sorry kaostar i'll mention the 20 degree range next time so you don't do a huge post making it seem like what i said was wrong instead of simply incomplete
icyrvnd
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2008
- Messages
- 51
VirtualVoid
Smash Journeyman
You can punish a missed rest/shieldbreak by spamming phantom hits before charging smash 
The Star King
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 9,681
What you said was wrong, though, not just incomplete. You said "meteors only occur on moves with exactly straight down knockbacks".lol sorry kaostar i'll mention the 20 degree range next time so you don't do a huge post making it seem like what i said was wrong instead of simply incomplete
I know it's not that important, so sorry for pointing this out. It's just a pet peeve of mine when people can't admit they were wrong.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
...but sveet is never wrong, duh. Marth is without a doubt Ganon's worst matchup when played correctly. It's knowledge like that that gets you into the MBR.
jeez.
jeez.
Metà
Smash Master
even if you were able to do this (which is incredibly hard), phantom hits can be SDI'd, so this isn't really trueYou can punish a missed rest/shieldbreak by spamming phantom hits before charging smash
The Star King
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 9,681
Considering phantom hits have no knockback or hitstun/hitlag, I'm pretty sure they can't be SDI'd. You're right about it being unrealistic, though (it would've been sick if Armada solved Peach's problem of punishing rests by using phantom D-Smashes lol).
Metà
Smash Master
I'm fairly certain that phantom hits cause hitlag. I would clarify this empirically, but I don't have access to AR at the moment
Dark Hart
Rejected by Azua
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
I don't think Phantoms have hitstun...none at all.
Can anyone tell me about pivot dropping? As in, running off an edge, then turning around and re-grabbing? Not PC walking or w/e.
Like I know how to do it....don't you have to hit back while in the teeter animation?
I just wanna know the specifics of it.
Can anyone tell me about pivot dropping? As in, running off an edge, then turning around and re-grabbing? Not PC walking or w/e.
Like I know how to do it....don't you have to hit back while in the teeter animation?
I just wanna know the specifics of it.
Lovage
Smash Hero
phantom hits don't have hitlag but they can be sdi'd
this is a big reason why phantom hits are so noticeable, because most people will inadvertently sdi once or twice while getting phantom hit so you can see them move in the air a little.
it's the same motion/timing as performing an empty pivot on the ground, except you have to space it really well and pivot right on the ledge so that you fall off.
pick fox/falcon/marth and just dash dance really close right next to an edge and you'll probably accidentally pivot drop off a few times.
doing it consistently is pretty hard, because not every position on the stage can be pivot drop'd from. depending on your character, only specific distances from the ledge can be pivot drop'd from, so your spacing as well as your timing has to be really precise to pull it off.
i find pivot drops easiest to do with falcon cuz he has a big dash dance
Metà
Smash Master
When a phantom hit happens the attacker does not go into hitlag, but the person being hit does. You can't ever ASDI phantom hits. You can't SDI them either unless it happens while you're already in a damage/knockback/tumble animation, since you can't SDI in hitlag while in the others (you freeze and stay in the same action you were in when phantomed). If the game did allow you to do that then it would also let you SDI during hitlag when you are the one attacking and not just the person being hit.
Unlike normal hits, the damage is applied after hitlag ends. It also doesn't count as hitting them which is why it can initially connect as a phantom and then still hit them again later. If it makes solid contact during the phantom's hitlag it switches to a normal hit and the damage from the phantom never happens. If it makes solid contact after hitlag it'll do the phantom's damage as well as the normal hit afterwards. It'll use the current properties of the hitbox though, so if it has since changed into a flub/weak part of the move it will normal hit with that.
________________A_________________________________B
________________C_________________________________D
A: Phantom hit
B: Phantom hit, then connects before hitlag ends ('single' hit)
C: Phantom hit, then connects as early as possible after hitlag ends ('double' hit)
D: Phantom hit, then connects as late as possible after hitlag ends ('double' hit)
apparently there IS hitlag for the person being attacked, but you can't SDI it unless you're already in hitstun
yay magus
The Star King
Smash Hero
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- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 9,681
Magus for president. That guy should write a book.
DualCats
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2009
- Messages
- 502
I'd vote for him and read that book.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
I <3 U lol.
yea magus needs to be president of something lol. his posts are too godly. I love learning about the details of smash. Moooooooore!
shine bair works all too well. ahh ****!
VirtualVoid
Smash Journeyman
The awesome part is, he could write anything he wants in his posts and we would believe it's true
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
Does Magus have some epic site with all of his findings? He should, or at least a thread of all his quotes.
Fortress | Sveet
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This thread does not deserve death.
What do you mean? You can DI out of shine bair?Shine bair doesn't work, people just di to well up
trahhSTEEZY
Smash Champion
Yes, if you are DI'ng the shine left or right the bair misses IIRC
thats why it's a good surprise kill move at best
thats why it's a good surprise kill move at best
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
way to respond to a 6 month old post.
Fortress | Sveet
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Way to add something to the thread at all
LittleBoyLarry
Smash Journeyman
I spent hours reading every single post in the thread. Learned a lot.
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
These have probably all been said already (and some of them are pretty well known really) but:
Doc can cancel his upB in the first couple frames, and it's hitbox will send a fixed amount based on the character.
G&W can't L-cancel his Uair, Nair, or Bair.
Sheik's UpB can hit twice if the aerial hitbox comes out as you touch the ground. You can platform drop and do it on the platform you fell from with the right timing, even from platforms near the ground. When doing this the hitbox sometimes fails to come out at all.
If you UpB with sheik at the outside edge of the bottom Yoshi's platforms you will sweetspot the ledge. Conversely you can UpB directly up after ledge dropping and land on the platform.
With Link and Sheik you can upB as you run off a ledge and do it immediately before sweetspotting. Also works with Y. Link and Bowser(?).
Doctor Mario can ledge cancel his taunt.
If you hit a breakable block (Like the ones in Green Greens or Super Mario World) out from under you as Kirby with G&W's pan the pan will remain out afterwards. It even remains out after you lose the ability. You can also turn it grey.
If you buffer up on the control stick and hold it as ICs Nana will short hop continually until you stop.
You can crash the game by bucketing three fresh, fully charged PK Flashes as G&W and emptying them onto a countering Roy then having another Roy counter the first Roy.
Doctor Mario and Mario do not share a single move with identical properties.
I won't go over the more well known glitches in the game (Black Hole, Play as Master Hand, Freeze Glitch with ICs, Mind Control with Mewtwo)
All I can think of at the moment.
Doc can cancel his upB in the first couple frames, and it's hitbox will send a fixed amount based on the character.
G&W can't L-cancel his Uair, Nair, or Bair.
Sheik's UpB can hit twice if the aerial hitbox comes out as you touch the ground. You can platform drop and do it on the platform you fell from with the right timing, even from platforms near the ground. When doing this the hitbox sometimes fails to come out at all.
If you UpB with sheik at the outside edge of the bottom Yoshi's platforms you will sweetspot the ledge. Conversely you can UpB directly up after ledge dropping and land on the platform.
With Link and Sheik you can upB as you run off a ledge and do it immediately before sweetspotting. Also works with Y. Link and Bowser(?).
Doctor Mario can ledge cancel his taunt.
If you hit a breakable block (Like the ones in Green Greens or Super Mario World) out from under you as Kirby with G&W's pan the pan will remain out afterwards. It even remains out after you lose the ability. You can also turn it grey.
If you buffer up on the control stick and hold it as ICs Nana will short hop continually until you stop.
You can crash the game by bucketing three fresh, fully charged PK Flashes as G&W and emptying them onto a countering Roy then having another Roy counter the first Roy.
Doctor Mario and Mario do not share a single move with identical properties.
I won't go over the more well known glitches in the game (Black Hole, Play as Master Hand, Freeze Glitch with ICs, Mind Control with Mewtwo)
All I can think of at the moment.
LittleBoyLarry
Smash Journeyman
Yup heard them all. They should be throughout the thread.
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
i got one some people might not know. i'll TRY to explain it.
someone read it, and try to explain it clearly.
hitboxes kinda linger.
example: when your moving backwards during an aerial (like retreating fox nair), your hurt box (part of fox's foot that takes damage) won't occupy as much of the hitbox (the area around fox's foot that deals damage). maybe this is because the hit box moves a little later than your hurtboxes. idk. but this means there is more safe hit box in front of you than if you were moving forward where your hurt box would be occupy more of the hit box, making you more vulnerable to challenging attacks.
idk how to explain it in english.
p.s. this is borderline useless information... but i think it's cool.
edit: wish i could make a gif.
someone read it, and try to explain it clearly.
hitboxes kinda linger.
example: when your moving backwards during an aerial (like retreating fox nair), your hurt box (part of fox's foot that takes damage) won't occupy as much of the hitbox (the area around fox's foot that deals damage). maybe this is because the hit box moves a little later than your hurtboxes. idk. but this means there is more safe hit box in front of you than if you were moving forward where your hurt box would be occupy more of the hit box, making you more vulnerable to challenging attacks.
idk how to explain it in english.
p.s. this is borderline useless information... but i think it's cool.
edit: wish i could make a gif.
Fortress | Sveet
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^ to rehash what lumpy is saying:
Each from of a hitbox lingers into the next frame. This is very clear when looking at peach's forward air. The updated hitbox location follows her hand on each frame, however the hitbox also exists at the previous frame causing her move to have a large amount of priority.
In practical terms, this means that an aerial while moving backwards has more priority than an aerial moving forwards.
Each from of a hitbox lingers into the next frame. This is very clear when looking at peach's forward air. The updated hitbox location follows her hand on each frame, however the hitbox also exists at the previous frame causing her move to have a large amount of priority.
In practical terms, this means that an aerial while moving backwards has more priority than an aerial moving forwards.
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
i knew you could clear that up for me.
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
I don't get how you came to this conclusion. Mind clearing that up?
Also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53t9fDzdCyw
Fortress | Sveet
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Sure. It is because hitboxes drag into the next frame. If you move forwards with a sex-kick, the hitbox that is in front of you is only the one from the new frame and the one from the previous frame is dragged behind you. When not moving there is no dragged hitbox. When moving backwards there is a hitbox dragged from where you were before, thus having a thicker hitbox in front of you.
Please note that all of these images also have drag from moving vertically, but are consistent between the two. That means that at each frame all of the images are at the same height, and they all land on the same frame.
Stationary
Forward
Backward
trahhSTEEZY
Smash Champion
good to know, thanks.
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
wow. sveet being extremely efficient at this. i'll leave this thread alone now. gg.
LittleBoyLarry
Smash Journeyman
Sveet is the new Magus?