Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

0Room · Jun 25, 2011

The thread is here
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=297643

When it comes to sheik you pretty much have all of the percents down.

Roneblaster
Glad you're okay
<3 you bro

Palpi · Jun 25, 2011

Roneblaster said:
Got away with a sore neck.....and one less car.

Moral of the story is smoke more weed/drink more alch and play more melee....while u still can.

Out of context...or in context...this is the truth!

0Room · Jun 25, 2011

I mean while I personally don't do any of that stuff
I get the underlying message of "live life while you can"

Anyway, where do you live Scar? You're up north right?

ETWIST51294 · Jun 25, 2011

i'll kill you if you die Chris.

I'm serious.

Brookman · Jun 25, 2011

Do think it's possible to learn [character vs. character] to the point that the [player vs. player] is less significant??

0Room · Jun 26, 2011

No. Unless you're Fox and he's Kirby.

But I think it's definitely possible to learn character vs character to where player vs player is the only thing that matters.

BigD!!! · Jun 26, 2011

i would say that back in his day, jiano learned falcon vs marth to the point that it didnt matter who it was, and i didnt see any exception until after he all but stopped playing

i'd say its a rarity though, husband vs peach back in the day would be another example, not many more come to mind

Divinokage · Jun 26, 2011

Brookman said:
Do think it's possible to learn [character vs. character] to the point that the [player vs. player] is less significant??

To me, it's the opposite. I just fight the player's decision with the character he's using.

Brookman · Jun 26, 2011

Divinokage said:
. . .

That also sounds like a paradox

Jiano was a beast. Now he just beasts sm64

Fortress | Sveet · Jun 26, 2011

and OoT

Walt · Jun 26, 2011

0Room said:
I mean while I personally don't do any of that stuff
I get the underlying message of "live life while you can"

Anyway, where do you live Scar? You're up north right?

Scar lives in Norcal. Got 3rd today at ITT5. He was messing dudes up.

He also likes to yell WALT as I found out today.

BigD!!! · Jun 26, 2011

also, on the subject of knee to grab on shields

unless im playing a character with a threatening spot dodge, if i knee the back of a shield with a strong hit, i usually go for a grab. at worst, they roll and the situation resets, but most people will just hold it

on the front of the shield, i feel too threatened, but on the back, what can they do really

Roneblaster · Jun 26, 2011

Big d likes to be on the back of young boys.

Palpi · Jun 26, 2011

Brookman said:
That also sounds like a paradox

Jiano was a beast. Now he just beasts sm64

I think he means that it is both. The decision on how to react towards the player is different for whatever character the player is using.

Scar · Jun 26, 2011

@Mow good advice
@Johnny you are the best in the world

@Brookman the better you know a matchup the less the player vs player matters, I think your question speaks to the extent to which player vs player matters in the end.

Actually with the general case "Do think it's possible to learn [character X vs. characterY] to the point that the [player A vs. player B] is less significant??"

IF Player A Skill > Player B skill then the more player A learns X vs Y the less significant Player A vs Player B becomes, because deviations on the player vs player axis affect the outcome less.

IF Player A Skill < Player B skill then the more player A learns X vs Y the more significant Player A vs Player B becomes, because deviations on the player vs player axis affect the outcome more.

But anyways yeah I think your question is to what extent can you make player vs player not matter, to which the answer is IMO and has always been in theory in a perfectly solved game with a perfectly playing agent you can make it not matter at all (0%) and in practice it will always matter due to human limitations.

Brookman · Jun 26, 2011

In practice, shffl knee on shield is extremely free grab you just have to know your mix ups.

i.e. shffl knee to stomp, shffl knee to charge smash shffl knee to roll :troll:

shffl knee to gentleman, shffl knee to up air, shffl knee to back air, shffl knee to taunt. . . .

I mean, I think you get it.

Scar bro, tech chase with falcon punch; win games

Divinokage · Jun 26, 2011

Oh ya.. unsafe knee into forward smash.. classic for auto-spacing LOL. That's like 2002 ****.

Brookman · Jun 26, 2011

side step becomes a common response after you've started grabbing the person through the knee, so you can really just flex your **** on them.

Divinokage · Jun 26, 2011

Brookman said:
side step becomes a common response after you've started grabbing the person through the knee, so you can really just flex your **** on them.

I've seen my friend yesterday he would punish the spot dodge with usmash into knee, was funny lol.

0Room · Jun 26, 2011

tbh all this talk about knee on shield has made me begin thinking of Falcon as more of a setup character.

A "setup character" is a term that's from SF and other 2D fighters. It refers to a character who excels on forcing his opponent into [usually] a set of 50/50 mix ups, and controls the match that way, usually trying to force them to make a certain choice. I kind of feel like I should be playing CF that way.

I mean let's look at the way he plays.
Like we said with the knee on shield, the mixup is either spotdodge or not.
Unless it's Falco, DDing forces them to mostly approach or wait it out.
Throws turn into tech/no tech, then tech in place, towards, or away.

While this is obviously an oversimplification, and you can't really make this game into a setup game anyway because of how complicated it is, I think this is a good start to really understanding how to keep things moving in this game.

mers · Jun 26, 2011

I might just be ****-riding, but I think that's a very Mango way to look at the game. He seems to excel at identifying the options in any given situation, and then either covering them or forcing his opponent's choice.

0Room · Jun 26, 2011

I feel like a lot of pros do that. Especially Darkrain.

And it's not cockriding unless you go
"OMG MANGO'S THE BEST YOU GUYS. BEST. NO ONE IS EVEN CLOSE. BECAUSE MANGO IS THE BEST GUYS. DID I TELL YOU HE'S THE BEST?!"

Walt · Jun 26, 2011

Interesting that cockriding isn't filtered but ****riding is.

Juggleguy · Jun 27, 2011

0Room, I'm like 5 months late with this, but I saw one of your video critiques of j00t, and I must inform you that dthrow-knee does not work on Samus. Just saying.

Strong Badam · Jun 27, 2011

samus weighs 110, ***** any frame advantage you might have had.

Jeapie · Jun 27, 2011

European tournament 25 June

vids here for those who are bored:
http://www.youtube.com/user/NorthernSmash?feature=mhee#g/c/48B7A533DE89F542

FabulousGeorge · Jun 27, 2011

I find your movement so sexy, Jeapie

Wenbobular · Jun 27, 2011

I really like the movement but I'm pretty sure there are a few times you could just be killing them instead of trying to moonwalk

But I guess that's like lame <_<

Also there were a couple times vs Faab where I was super hoping you'd get the runoff knee but it never happened

DuckPimp · Jun 27, 2011

now you know the inspiration for my silly moonwalks/excessive wavelands, wenbo.

its all jeapies fault.

Divinokage · Jun 27, 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA6NEwktW6M&feature=player_detailpage#t=154s I have one vid from my Falcon recently.. tell me what you think about this style of Falcon.. =P

0Room · Jun 27, 2011

Yes I know, I figured that out myself Juggleguy.
I figured it did, but after trying it myself I realized it didn't work.

However
The point still stands that J00t needed to gain control of that match RIGHT THEN, and I still think the best way to do that was to grab.

Palpi · Jun 27, 2011

Divinokage said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA6NEwktW6M&feature=player_detailpage#t=154s I have one vid from my Falcon recently.. tell me what you think about this style of Falcon.. =P

Looks like a falcon I would money match

I watched like 45 seconds, it looks like your playing Ganon still, just a little faster

Divinokage · Jun 27, 2011

Palpi said:
Looks like a falcon I would money match I watched like 45 seconds, it looks like your playing Ganon still, just a little faster

Lol goddamn it. =P

Palpi · Jun 27, 2011

I will watch it more in depth later, but the first reverse uair I saw, I laughed then I started watching winners finals as ganon.

I kind of like erayz style

Divinokage · Jun 27, 2011

Palpi said:
I will watch it more in depth later, but the first reverse uair I saw, I laughed then I started watching winners finals as ganon.

I kind of like erayz style

Ya he's getting better and better pretty quickly now.. He must really want to improve. =) He's pretty technical, now I'm trying to fix his bad habits and stuff you know? Well not only me, he plays vs Bam and Vwins sometimes too. He still gets ***** but his improvement def showed this tournament.

Jeapie · Jun 27, 2011

Pretty solid falcon you got there Kage.
I saw that perfect executed utrow fsmash.
tight tech chases.
Survival DI was good as dorf.
Best thing I liked about the vid were your shield grabs. Seriously it looks like maybe you could even shield grab Remen with that o_0. Although That is impossible sadly..
No wait. The best thing was that you won, i smiled =) more kage falcon vids please!

Thanks FabulousGeorge. Positive or negative comments are always welcome!

Wenbobularm i know i know. As you said. Not fooling around is no fun so apparently you know how i like to play this game, thanks for the comment

DuckPimp: wut haha. Show me a video of you playing sometime ^^

next saturday = a big interational tournament in The Netherlands. I hope i will be able to record and upload some matches since some of you DO watch those =)

Jeapie

mers · Jun 27, 2011

Cute shield dropping, Jeapie.

Juggleguy · Jun 28, 2011

I've been working on shield drops lately and I can get them probably ~70% of the time in friendlies, but that goes down to under 50% in tourney :[

Divinokage · Jun 28, 2011

Jeapie said:
Pretty solid falcon you got there Kage.
I saw that perfect executed utrow fsmash.
tight tech chases.
Survival DI was good as dorf.
Best thing I liked about the vid were your shield grabs. Seriously it looks like maybe you could even shield grab Remen with that o_0. Although That is impossible sadly..
No wait. The best thing was that you won, i smiled =) more kage falcon vids please!

Thanks FabulousGeorge. Positive or negative comments are always welcome!

Wenbobularm i know i know. As you said. Not fooling around is no fun so apparently you know how i like to play this game, thanks for the comment

DuckPimp: wut haha. Show me a video of you playing sometime ^^

next saturday = a big interational tournament in The Netherlands. I hope i will be able to record and upload some matches since some of you DO watch those =)

Jeapie

Ya I might use Falcon at Genesis 2, maybe.. but I'm not sure yet.. if I would use Falcon it would be vs Falco or dittos.

Palpi · Jun 28, 2011

Kage, use ganon. Seriously.

Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

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