Windrose
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2009
- Messages
- 1,470
There has been high demand for an organized collection of information/discussion in the falcon boards on stage choices and in depth discussion about each stage.
Scar had a really nice stage guide in his stickied thread. Unfortunately, it is out of date and hasn't been touched up on due to Scar being busy with IRL. So as a community maybe we can put together our experiences and etc. on stage choice in different matchups as well as discuss all the different advantages and disadvantages of each stage for C.Falcon.
Scar has already started us off with a lot of great information(UPDATED for new MBR RULES)
[COLLAPSE="Scar's Notes on Stages (UPDATED)"]Neutral Stages
Fountain Of Dreams
This stage blows. Most CF players use their ban on this stage except Peaches and Jiggs who will certainly CP Mute City. G-Reg was very good on this stage, which is my only hope for it in general.
Pros: Nice blastboxes, plenty of room to recover from below and relatively small side room for low % knee kills. FoD is great vs characters that rely on chaingrabbing you, even vs Sheik's dthrow there is a possibility that you'll land on the lowest FoD platforms. Also dair on platform controls an incredible amount of space.
Cons: The really low platforms ruin many of your shffl attempts, and it's really small so you can't run around much.
Dreamland 64
Known as a great CF stage, for reasons that are pretty evident. CF has plenty of room to maneuver and combo, his weight makes him very hard to kill, and the platforms are great to recover on, CF really counters Marth here. Many people will ban this vs you so don't rely too heavily on it.
Pros: Very large with a nice platform layout. Large blastboxes both high and wide.
Cons: Annoying when knee doesn't kill at kill %s here.
Battlefield
Battlefield pisses everyone off, but CF is nonetheless pretty good here. The ledge is really weird and arbitrarily lets certain people live and forces others to die. CF relies on double-jump sweetspots often and Battlefield randomly doesn't allow his double jump to grab the ledge. But other than that the stage is large enough to do what you need to do. Get comfortable here, it comes up a lot.
Pros: Nice platform layout, big enough to run and camp. Stupid ledge hurts other characters more than it hurts you. Easier to edgeguard most recoveries here b/c the option or riding up a wall is eliminated. Blastboxes are a nice balance between your survivability and knee's killing ability.
Cons: Not as big as many of the other neutrals, CF doesn't grab the ledge with his double jump sometimes. Getting trapped under the stage is unpleasant but again not as bad as with most other characters.
Yoshi's Story
My honest advice is to choose Yoshi's when you're probably going to lose on other stages. It is a very small, random, chaotic stage where anything can happen. Throw out a knee here and there and if your opponent gets hit by it at 40% and misses the DI, they will certainly lose their stock. Dair>fsmash combos on spacies will kill at about 60%. Learn to repeatedly walljump to stall for the cloud and your survivability greatly increases, but basically this stage leaves much to luck relatively speaking.
Pros: Wall gives more recovery options, the cloud saves also help prevent you from getting gimped. Small blastboxes allow for fsmash/knee kills at very low %s. Despite its small size the platforms allow for a lot of maneuverability on the stage.
Cons: Very small stage with little room to run away. Very high bottom blastbox takes away from CF's recovery options. Survivability greatly decreased.
Final Destination
FD is no joke. Very good stage for very experienced CFs, there is not much to get in the way of your combos and tech chases besides a good opponent.
Pros: No platforms, nowhere to run from CF. Very large. Good blastboxes.
Cons: No platforms to assist recovery, certain characters can chaingrab CF forever on FD.
Counterpick Stages
A quick note to everyone. I hate counterpick stages. I think you should stick to neutrals unless you're positive you cannot win on any of them. Counterpick stages HEAVILY rely on character matchups and generally you're assuming that the other player has no secondary characters, which is frequently false.
That said, comfortability on all of these stages can never hurt you in case you get CP'd on them, but in general no one wants to fight CF on CP stages because he is really good on them as a general rule. Peach/Jiggs on Mute is the only stage you will frequently be CP'd on.
Again cp stages suck and increase randomness. You are gay if you pick these stages but if you win on them it's all good.
Pokemon Stadium
Stadium is a great CF stage in my opinion. Knee kills are very reliable thanks to the small sides of the stage, but the stage itself is huge. The transformations are really bad vs spacies but not a problem vs anyone else, usually you'll just camp eachother out. Very worthwhile stage to learn and CP.
Pros: Very large central platform, and no middle platform to tech on after stomp>knee. Small side blastboxes for low% knee kills. Great platform layout for both comboing and recovery.
Cons: Rock/Fire transformations are miserable. Weird ledge mechanics in transformations limit defensive options.
[COLLAPSE="No Longer Legal Counter Pick Stages"]Brinstar
Probably Falcon's best CP stage, he can maneuver the stage better than most and avoid the lava really well, and lava>knee combos are ****. Lava saves you more than it saves other characters (mostly because you should be kneeing them) but don't think you can just jump around, getting lava'd at 40 usually ends up with you getting burned a good 4 or 5 times before you get back to the stage.
Pros: Lava has a ton of stun and combos into knee well and saves you from getting gimped. Nice blastboxes, really high top but tiny sides. Good vs campy low tiers. fB trixies are pretty cool
Cons: It's a counterpick stage, so it's random, stupid, weird, and anti-competitive by nature. Difficult to combo with the added hitboxes.
KJ64
KJ is well known as a good CF counterpick stage. It's very large, the rotating plats mess up other characters guaranteed combos but not yours so much. A good stage to get comfortable with but not extremely useful in my opinion.
Pros: Big stage, good blastboxes, and the barel can save you from gimps. Nice platform layout, below the stage recovery is possible.
Cons: Weird layout that takes getting used to, some problems with comboing because of uneven ground, ledge can be difficult to negotiate with.
Rainbow Cruise
Cruise is also a good CF stage, many players have had a lot of success here, namely Jiano. On the boat there is little risk teching to the right b/c there's no ledge there, and the blastboxes are pretty tiny towards the edges of the stage no matter where it is. Dedicate time to learning this stage and it can be a pretty powerful weapon.
Pros: Moving stage forces campy players to move, generally a good layout and CF can maneuver the harder parts better than the competition. Reliable knee kills.
Cons: Projectile campers suck, weird breaks in the stage, some platforms cannot be dropped through, difficult to navigate without experience.[/COLLAPSE]
[/COLLAPSE]
Note: I've deleted his notes on the CP stages that have been removed from the rules list. I've also moved pokemon stadium to the CP list.
Scar had a really nice stage guide in his stickied thread. Unfortunately, it is out of date and hasn't been touched up on due to Scar being busy with IRL. So as a community maybe we can put together our experiences and etc. on stage choice in different matchups as well as discuss all the different advantages and disadvantages of each stage for C.Falcon.
Scar has already started us off with a lot of great information(UPDATED for new MBR RULES)
[COLLAPSE="Scar's Notes on Stages (UPDATED)"]Neutral Stages
Fountain Of Dreams
This stage blows. Most CF players use their ban on this stage except Peaches and Jiggs who will certainly CP Mute City. G-Reg was very good on this stage, which is my only hope for it in general.
Pros: Nice blastboxes, plenty of room to recover from below and relatively small side room for low % knee kills. FoD is great vs characters that rely on chaingrabbing you, even vs Sheik's dthrow there is a possibility that you'll land on the lowest FoD platforms. Also dair on platform controls an incredible amount of space.
Cons: The really low platforms ruin many of your shffl attempts, and it's really small so you can't run around much.
Dreamland 64
Known as a great CF stage, for reasons that are pretty evident. CF has plenty of room to maneuver and combo, his weight makes him very hard to kill, and the platforms are great to recover on, CF really counters Marth here. Many people will ban this vs you so don't rely too heavily on it.
Pros: Very large with a nice platform layout. Large blastboxes both high and wide.
Cons: Annoying when knee doesn't kill at kill %s here.
Battlefield
Battlefield pisses everyone off, but CF is nonetheless pretty good here. The ledge is really weird and arbitrarily lets certain people live and forces others to die. CF relies on double-jump sweetspots often and Battlefield randomly doesn't allow his double jump to grab the ledge. But other than that the stage is large enough to do what you need to do. Get comfortable here, it comes up a lot.
Pros: Nice platform layout, big enough to run and camp. Stupid ledge hurts other characters more than it hurts you. Easier to edgeguard most recoveries here b/c the option or riding up a wall is eliminated. Blastboxes are a nice balance between your survivability and knee's killing ability.
Cons: Not as big as many of the other neutrals, CF doesn't grab the ledge with his double jump sometimes. Getting trapped under the stage is unpleasant but again not as bad as with most other characters.
Yoshi's Story
My honest advice is to choose Yoshi's when you're probably going to lose on other stages. It is a very small, random, chaotic stage where anything can happen. Throw out a knee here and there and if your opponent gets hit by it at 40% and misses the DI, they will certainly lose their stock. Dair>fsmash combos on spacies will kill at about 60%. Learn to repeatedly walljump to stall for the cloud and your survivability greatly increases, but basically this stage leaves much to luck relatively speaking.
Pros: Wall gives more recovery options, the cloud saves also help prevent you from getting gimped. Small blastboxes allow for fsmash/knee kills at very low %s. Despite its small size the platforms allow for a lot of maneuverability on the stage.
Cons: Very small stage with little room to run away. Very high bottom blastbox takes away from CF's recovery options. Survivability greatly decreased.
Final Destination
FD is no joke. Very good stage for very experienced CFs, there is not much to get in the way of your combos and tech chases besides a good opponent.
Pros: No platforms, nowhere to run from CF. Very large. Good blastboxes.
Cons: No platforms to assist recovery, certain characters can chaingrab CF forever on FD.
Counterpick Stages
A quick note to everyone. I hate counterpick stages. I think you should stick to neutrals unless you're positive you cannot win on any of them. Counterpick stages HEAVILY rely on character matchups and generally you're assuming that the other player has no secondary characters, which is frequently false.
That said, comfortability on all of these stages can never hurt you in case you get CP'd on them, but in general no one wants to fight CF on CP stages because he is really good on them as a general rule. Peach/Jiggs on Mute is the only stage you will frequently be CP'd on.
Again cp stages suck and increase randomness. You are gay if you pick these stages but if you win on them it's all good.
Pokemon Stadium
Stadium is a great CF stage in my opinion. Knee kills are very reliable thanks to the small sides of the stage, but the stage itself is huge. The transformations are really bad vs spacies but not a problem vs anyone else, usually you'll just camp eachother out. Very worthwhile stage to learn and CP.
Pros: Very large central platform, and no middle platform to tech on after stomp>knee. Small side blastboxes for low% knee kills. Great platform layout for both comboing and recovery.
Cons: Rock/Fire transformations are miserable. Weird ledge mechanics in transformations limit defensive options.
[COLLAPSE="No Longer Legal Counter Pick Stages"]Brinstar
Probably Falcon's best CP stage, he can maneuver the stage better than most and avoid the lava really well, and lava>knee combos are ****. Lava saves you more than it saves other characters (mostly because you should be kneeing them) but don't think you can just jump around, getting lava'd at 40 usually ends up with you getting burned a good 4 or 5 times before you get back to the stage.
Pros: Lava has a ton of stun and combos into knee well and saves you from getting gimped. Nice blastboxes, really high top but tiny sides. Good vs campy low tiers. fB trixies are pretty cool
Cons: It's a counterpick stage, so it's random, stupid, weird, and anti-competitive by nature. Difficult to combo with the added hitboxes.
KJ64
KJ is well known as a good CF counterpick stage. It's very large, the rotating plats mess up other characters guaranteed combos but not yours so much. A good stage to get comfortable with but not extremely useful in my opinion.
Pros: Big stage, good blastboxes, and the barel can save you from gimps. Nice platform layout, below the stage recovery is possible.
Cons: Weird layout that takes getting used to, some problems with comboing because of uneven ground, ledge can be difficult to negotiate with.
Rainbow Cruise
Cruise is also a good CF stage, many players have had a lot of success here, namely Jiano. On the boat there is little risk teching to the right b/c there's no ledge there, and the blastboxes are pretty tiny towards the edges of the stage no matter where it is. Dedicate time to learning this stage and it can be a pretty powerful weapon.
Pros: Moving stage forces campy players to move, generally a good layout and CF can maneuver the harder parts better than the competition. Reliable knee kills.
Cons: Projectile campers suck, weird breaks in the stage, some platforms cannot be dropped through, difficult to navigate without experience.[/COLLAPSE]
[/COLLAPSE]
Note: I've deleted his notes on the CP stages that have been removed from the rules list. I've also moved pokemon stadium to the CP list.
