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Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

Windrose

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
1,470
LOL

Also, I didn't ban Nando lol
Yo what anime is that??

Listen to Roneblaster
He knows

I managed to get through another entire tournament without getting recorded lolz
I promise you I'm not avoiding it but it just happened that way.

Throughout the day I went
Before tourney friendlies horrible
Tournament Pretty good
After tournament friendlies eh

Which I suppose you can't complain about lol
If you ever wanted your wonderful moments, it should be during tourney right?
I struggled a lot without my cstick lol, It was really tough but I made sure not to john at all during tournament
I johned like a ***** during friendlies
But tournament you play the best you can no excuses or go home

I wish I had gotten my match against Bdenhawk recorded
He's a good Falco, a bit better than me

I teched everything
Four dairs at 100%
Dsmash
ftilt
Even a Fsmash

It was good payback for my horrible performance in friendlies lol
It was good stuff, I learned a lot about approaching and traps and set ups and I feel like I got a lot better mental gameplay wise
Which is what I needed help on the most.

I still have issues dealing with super hardcore pressure games
But that'll come, in time I suppose.

Moral of the story
Don't go into a tournament with a controller who's cstick doesn't work
It still sucks
Do you mean approaching traps or making your own traps and setups???
What did you learn? sharing is caring!

I'm having a lot of difficulty now in neutral game when I'm under pressure against a player much better than me. I just revert to the one thing I know how to do very well which is spacing shffled nairs....it is very predictable but it keeps me alive slightly longer and allows me to create a nice defensive shell for the most part. (i'm mostly talking about vs foxing)

I don't know how to do those dj baits/fake outs that SS and also I saw in big D's videos which seem to be very good to use as a mixup....and all other things that you falcon can do in neutral game other than spacing nairs....over shoot? i don't use that enough either/don't know when to use it...and full hop?
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
His avatar is Hanasaku Iroha, no idea on the sig though for some reason they all look very familiar ... maybe they're like mad generic or something <_<
 

JPeGImage

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
941
Location
Vegas, NV
Should falcons be thinking of ways to counter his opponents traps? or moreso should he be always looking for ways to go back to a neutral standing between the two chars?
I ask this cause I see a lot of spots (on platform levels) where my opponent knocks me upwards at mid%s and then waits under the side platforms for me to dair, hoping he jumps into it. He then can come up with a quick bair(spacies) or nair (sheiks) to knock me off the stage for the easy kill.
I know I can always fall back to the ledge or doublejump/airdodge for the top platform to find a way to get back to ground level safely, but I always fancy the idea of doing something more.
A few times, Ive tried countering that trap by FFing to the side platform he wants me to and immediately sheilding, waiting for the whiffed bair/nair and the bad spacing that follows, and then coming back with an uair or fair of my own. And itll work sometimes. Im just not sure if thats a trend I should be getting myself into for oos tournaments, and if I should always play the safe route.
Does his % come into play? maybe its worth it if he's over 80 and I can assuredly get him off the stage, thus, making the risk somewhat worthwhile.
ledgecancelling attacks seems alil more risky cause they always seem to attack right in between my two moves. . . . maybe im not doing them crisply enough. . . .

I should also say that I obv wouldnt do this all the time. maybe like 20/25-80/75% of the time I would go for this.

Also, I approve of the disgust for falcos. Would love to get the MU down pat . . . . Too bad my region is 50% falco or falco "alting" (dumb word). So I have to deal =p
 

Walt

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Messages
894
Location
Concord, CA
I know exactly what you mean, above Falco, just about to step on his face, stomp comes out, get dair'd anyways, doesn't even trade.
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
Do you mean approaching traps or making your own traps and setups???
What did you learn? sharing is caring!

I don't know how to do those dj baits/fake outs that SS and also I saw in big D's videos which seem to be very good to use as a mixup....and all other things that you falcon can do in neutral game other than spacing nairs....over shoot? i don't use that enough either/don't know when to use it...and full hop?
Well mostly just becoming AWARE of the traps makes it really useful. When you approach someone who's short hopping away from you, that is a trap.
If you go in for an attack, they can put out a bair, or DJ into a dair or something
Basically they have the advantage.

Another example is when you're holding the ledge and they're standing next to it. If you ledgehop knee, the trap is that they full hop dair you.
It's one of those things that you have to be aware of and then counter.
So basically being aware and noticing them was the first step, I started making traps of my own but it was basically instinct.

Basically Windrose it all comes from instinct and playing, just play more and more and use all the tricks you've ever learned and suddenly everything makes sense lol. It all just comes with practice and instinct. Basically you should never throw out an attack unless they've committed to something or you are setting the trap/know for 100% certainty you can hit them. It's too complicated to really explain.

Should falcons be thinking of ways to counter his opponents traps? or moreso should he be always looking for ways to go back to a neutral standing between the two chars?
Basically you want to be
well
dding
Spring the trap
get out
get back in
****

Like in your example that works, but when they catch on you will have to come back and do something new. It's an ever changing battlefield, but basically again
don't throw out an attack because you think an opponent will run into it

You have to know
Stomp is sooooo easy to bait and you can't do the whole DJ stomp when you get out of a combo
You have to reset it to neutral and get a grab in somewhere

That's the basics of it
 

Windrose

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
1,470
The point is it doesnt matter, not dont go low. I was specifically saying i was getting hit when above him.

:phone:
I know exactly what you mean, above Falco, just about to step on his face, stomp comes out, get dair'd anyways, doesn't even trade.
Falcos use dair when opponents are above them? @_@

Makes sense, I will try to focus on it during the next time I play.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
whenever im an underdog i get a huge boost in power level

but even if im playing the best in my life

bad edgeguarding haunts me
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Should falcons be thinking of ways to counter his opponents traps? or moreso should he be always looking for ways to go back to a neutral standing between the two chars?
I ask this cause I see a lot of spots (on platform levels) where my opponent knocks me upwards at mid%s and then waits under the side platforms for me to dair, hoping he jumps into it. He then can come up with a quick bair(spacies) or nair (sheiks) to knock me off the stage for the easy kill.
I know I can always fall back to the ledge or doublejump/airdodge for the top platform to find a way to get back to ground level safely, but I always fancy the idea of doing something more.
A few times, Ive tried countering that trap by FFing to the side platform he wants me to and immediately sheilding, waiting for the whiffed bair/nair and the bad spacing that follows, and then coming back with an uair or fair of my own. And itll work sometimes. Im just not sure if thats a trend I should be getting myself into for oos tournaments, and if I should always play the safe route.
Does his % come into play? maybe its worth it if he's over 80 and I can assuredly get him off the stage, thus, making the risk somewhat worthwhile.
ledgecancelling attacks seems alil more risky cause they always seem to attack right in between my two moves. . . . maybe im not doing them crisply enough. . . .

I should also say that I obv wouldnt do this all the time. maybe like 20/25-80/75% of the time I would go for this.

Also, I approve of the disgust for falcos. Would love to get the MU down pat . . . . Too bad my region is 50% falco or falco "alting" (dumb word). So I have to deal =p
-good counter > neutral position unless you are better, but if better, you should win. neutral position >>>>>>>>> failed counter that makes you get ***** and not alive

-almost every player in this game except for pusays pretty much always want to attack even in defensive spots. every falcon main in their climb to glory pretty much always attacked in recovery and its pretty bad, especially if opponents are playing reactive

youtube face palm moments are when instead of safely double jump grabbing the edge, a falcon decides to double jump knee, miss horribly, then get ***** as they up-b the edge. then they repeat over and over--> i want to put a bullet in my brain

-ur fastfall onto platform quick trick is quite good actually but there is a tiny window where they can hit you as you go onto the platform itself. BUT if you condition them to expect the d-air and they counter attack after its good

your downfall though is people who have decent reaction time and instead of opting for an aerial attack will do some trick like after jumping falling back through the platform, simply wavelanding onto plat --> (shine)grab, etc. They can also hit your shield in a manner where you can't punish them before they shine. i'm sure you get the point. I think i do this sometimes also but vs competent foxes like lovage/ s.wolf i'll find a way to reset, sihelding on a side plat is still a bad spot to be in, you want to reset from bad positions. Fox is extremely difficult to counterattack from shield position (they have to mess up but because fox is an unwieldy character, happens quite often even among good foxes)

you have to gauge whether your opponent messed up 'enough' for you to punish. to be honest, just getting onto the stage safely by double jumping quickly onto the plat is already a win since you are not off stage and dead

so,

-'tricks' only get you so far, the situation you describe is reliant on the spacey making a slight mistake but it can turn out in your favor

-this ties into knowing your opponents potential and adjusting, make your life easier and do noob-pwning tactics against noobs
=
a year ago, i believed that if I played like silentspectre, played kooky in unorthodox spots and outsped people and edge canceled everything i'd gain a serious edge and **** every opponent

but it simply won't work on good opponents and months of getting ***** pretty much taught me that in socal, no matter how crisp your edgecancel is if ur in a bad spot relative to your opponent and they aren't a n00b you are in an unsafe spot

valuable imo as a spacing tool though

and practicing stuff like edgecanceling makes you quicker. up-b edge cancel recovery turns falcon into a mid-tier recovery character

above all though, improve your fundamentals. relying on tricks to get you wins makes you a gimmick player and you will hit a wall quick. directed to everybody, there is ALWAYS something you can improve on no matter what, besides obvious errors there are a million tiny things you can do better that add up and make the difference between a close loss and a close win


===

never attacking unless you are sure it will hit isn't optimal, sometimes you have to go with your read/prediction/ hope for the best

go watch me vs armada at genesis 2 where I was scared ****less, never grabbed and played like a fuken chump

==

also falco is ghey as hell. me and hax had a talk and we both agreed even if the falco is worse than us, we always have the closest sets in the world

but we always barely win in the end
 

Walt

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Messages
894
Location
Concord, CA
On the topic of losing to a falco worse than you in friendlies I saw Hax 3 stock Mackadotious, a local norcal falco, then get 2 stocked right back and Hax just got up and left. Both of us were laughing about this all weekend, partly on lolfalconfalcomatchup and partly on **** yeah Mackadotious. dude is hella cool.

Watched some videos of me verse Tai in friendlies, I was playing hilarious maximum jank and killed him with a falcon kick at 80. I need to double jump way less, have more useful movement, throw out less moves for the sake of throwing out a move and generally just tell myself to not play dumb.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
I never look for "combos" i just hit once, take my space, hit them if they are still in hitstun/negative situation. Rince Repeat. Falcon is silly cause he hits once and takes his space... then you realize you have time to SHOWMEYOURMOVES and still hit them again and again and then tech chase and hit them some more.
 

Palpi

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
5,714
Location
Yardley, Pennsylvania
Everyone is complaining for mew2king camping s2j when in reality s2j played infinitely more gay. I mean, it is sheik, and mew2king, but that **** was >.> gay!!! :awesome:

:phone:
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
I find that kind of spacing to be really interesting. I think s2j should have won the first 3 games, but m2k just got lucky at the last second.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
lol at **** talk

thats like the only match in all of genesis 2 where I outright camped

I was nervous, ****ing up, and some dude behind me was trying to coach me when his advice sucked. i tell him to shut up and he starts talking again next match. It was more for me that I camped so I can compose myself

what i can say though is that in actual gameplay I got very little out of camping and got ***** right after

and is there any shame in camping m2k, i don't think so

@kage idk why you keep saying im the gayest falcon when my gameplan is always being up in your face. I don't run away for 50 years because vs ganon I don't have to. If anything I'm helping ganon's gameplan by always being close, but in each spot vs you I can read what your gunna do and how to counter it so...

being better= gay?

fuzzyness as a falcon will literally never approach . GG7 is also a pretty defensive falcon (better than fuzzy imo by a longshot). I'm just some n-air spammer
 

Juggleguy

Smash Grimer
Premium
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,354
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
how on earth did s2j play "gay" against m2k??

m2k was down a stock and was using the superior character, and still chose to be a pu$$y by not approaching... instead trying (and failing) to annoy johnny with needles from across the stage, lmao
 
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