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Why isn't Brawl+ the competitive standard?

R

rageagainst

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Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
257
Not a troll question, an honest question. Just read the thread "why does no one take competitive Smash seriously?", and the answer is mostly due to vBrawl. The game is pretty imbalanced, doesn't have much competitive depth, and is pretty campy which doesn't help its tournament viewership.

B+ seems to be an effort to make Brawl competitive. And its gone gold. And its matches are way more interesting to watch than metaknight ditto campfests. At the very least why isn't balanced brawl used? Which didn't change any of Brawl's core mechanics, and just made the game a bit more handleable for non MK characters.

And don't give me the "it would be hard to make everyone play a mod" carp. Its not a hack, everyone in other communities have to play with MLG rules and maps whether its listed in the game or not (Halo: reach, for instance, actually has an "MLG" mode), and people dedicated enough to play this game competitively and put hundreds, if not thousands of hours into it, won't find it a big hindrance that they have to get an SD card to play this game competitively.
 
Steam

Steam

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stop listening to people who don't know what they're talking about.

only balance problem is MK. only camping problem is MK. and the game is fine on depth.
 
Ghostbone

Ghostbone

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On the other hand balanced brawl would probably be a better alternative to Brawl, but since it's a hack, it would be too hard to get the whole community to switch over to it.
 
Jack Kieser

Jack Kieser

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If only we could make hacks a standard... Oh, but, too many logistical problems. Otherwise, I'd totally be down for a BBrawl standard.
 
Jigglymaster

Jigglymaster

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It would be unfair to all players who don't have Brawl+ in their own homes. How would they be able to practice?

You can't just tell them to get their wii hacked either because they've updated their wii too much or they don't want to run the risk of turning their wii into a brick. I once hacked my wii but the disc reader broke, brought it to Nintendo to fix it and they sent it back to me saying they wouldn't fix it because it was hacked (I tried to remove all the evidence that it was hacked but they still found out). I had to buy another Wii. I don't want to have to do it a 2nd time.
 
Strong Badam

Strong Badam

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brawl+ is a terrible game.

anyone with a wii & a brawl disc (regardless of how far updated it is) can play Brawl+. that's a terrible argument.
 
Crispy4001

Crispy4001

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
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Brawl+, while still fun, sits in no mans land between Melee and Brawl. There's not much appeal for the competitive Brawl audience who enjoys that game for what it is, and Melee fans have a much better alternative in their game.

Perhaps more than that, it's because of Project M. Modders stopped supporting Brawl+ and went on to Project M instead. So it's the latter that's gotten a lot of the benefits and breakthroughs that have happened since. Plus it's not the team's first crack at a Brawl mod iike Brawl+ was. Even though B+ is Gold, it's outdated and would only benefit from updates it's not going to get because of the promise of something bigger and better than it could live up to.

I also think it's a bad argument to say that a mod can't become a competitive standard. Two words: Counter-Strike. Oh, and the fact that you don't technically have to mod your Wii to run the Brawl mods.
 
Ghostbone

Ghostbone

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Grim Tuesday said:
I would support BBrawl as the standard. That'd be amazing.
Click to expand...
Like I said, most people wouldn't be willing to re-learn the game (it'd be like switching to 1.1 damage ratio or something), and since it's so similar to Brawl, it's not going to attract any new players either....

A mod has to be really innovative and be highly demanded for it to become the standard.

BBrawl isn't innovative at all, nor is it highly demanded, Brawl players are just going to keep playing Brawl.
Brawl minus might be innovative, but not many people have a great interest in playing it.

Project M could have a shot at taking over/co-existing with the Melee scene, we'll see.
 
MechaWave

MechaWave

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ghostbone said:
Like I said, most people wouldn't be willing to re-learn the game (it'd be like switching to 1.1 or something), and since it's so similar to Brawl, it's not going to attract any new players either....

A mod has to be really innovative and be highly demanded for it to become the standard.

BBrawl isn't innovative at all, nor is it highly demanded, Brawl players are just going to keep playing Brawl.
Brawl minus might be innovative, but not many people have a great interest in playing it.

Project M could have a shot at taking over/co-existing with the Melee scene, we'll see.
Click to expand...
Pretty much everything you said is the reason why BBrawl won't be standard. I usually don't play it, but when I do it's fun using Zelda's neutral B.

About Project: M. It won't take over the Melee scene because Project: M won't be 1:1 to Melee and some things from Melee just can't be implemented. I'm not doubting it coexisting alongside with Brawl/Melee but it'll take a long while for it to be finished to inherit its own competitive scene.
 
Vigilante

Vigilante

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I will post only once. Brawl+ is unfinised. Why play an unfinished game competitively? Not to mention that Project M should become the new styandard according to me. Tournaments should be Melee and M.
 
Revven

Revven

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Steam said:
only balance problem is MK. only camping problem is MK. and the game is fine on depth.
Click to expand...
Kinda disagree but this isn't really the thread to be talking about what's really wrong with MK/Brawl/balance/depth/[insert bullcrap here] so I'm not going to delve into it.
 
Steam

Steam

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it's probably already been said before anyways.

and I would be against project M as the standard too. you're basically killing one game off for two versions of one game. you should either have brawl and melee or brawl and project M since project M is melee 2.0.

much preferably brawl and melee
 
Mr Wizzrobe

Mr Wizzrobe

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A hack of Brawl will NEVER be the standard. Ever.

However, I would love to see the inclusion of better organized side-events at major tournaments that feature Project:M, and perhaps (gulp) something like Brawl -/+/64. Just to spark more interest.

I do agree, though, that BBrawl is the best non-melee-esque alternative, and if there were to be a replacement for the standard, that would be it.
 
Jigglymaster

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Strong Bad said:
anyone with a wii & a brawl disc (regardless of how far updated it is) can play Brawl+. that's a terrible argument.
Click to expand...
You missed the point of my argument. When you hack your wii, you run the risk of it being broken and thus having to buy another Wii all over again, since Nintendo will not fix it if its hacked.
 
Vyse

Vyse

Faith, Hope, Love, Luck
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Jigglymaster said:
You missed the point of my argument. When you hack your wii, you run the risk of it being broken and thus having to buy another Wii all over again, since Nintendo will not fix it if its hacked.
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There is zero hacking involved.

There's an exploit in the stage builder that let's you load the codes (last I knew). Meaning all you need is an SD card.
 
Steam

Steam

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Brawl- is basically melee's 0 deaths with brawl's difficulty... and they made hitboxes massive to you still knda just... throw out moves.
 
Mr Wizzrobe

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*Smash 64's 0-Deaths. Melee 0-Deaths are crazy hard to pull off.

How to play Brawl Minus:
1. Spam Ganon/Falcon/Sheik/Falco/Fox/Wolf/Marth's intentionally broken moves.
2. ??????
3. Profit.
 
Crispy4001

Crispy4001

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Steam said:
it's probably already been said before anyways.

and I would be against project M as the standard too. you're basically killing one game off for two versions of one game. you should either have brawl and melee or brawl and project M since project M is melee 2.0.

much preferably brawl and melee
Click to expand...
If Project M is to Melee as to Balanced Brawl is to Brawl, I'd agree. But it's not, so I don't.

I think the only way for Project M to begin to thrive is for it to exist alongside the Melee scene, which is most likely how it'll happen for some time. From there, who knows. But it's not going to fall to where Brawl+ is now, and will inevitably remain the most popular Brawl mod. It'll have a scene no doubt, because there's the demand for it.
 
JOE!

JOE!

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Budget Player Cadet_ said:
ITT: people who suck at Brawl- and don't play against competent players complain about how "easy" it is.
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Pretty much this. When both people know what theyre doing it's not as easy to just steamroll the other guy as they have their own shenanigans to counter with.
 
Ghostbone

Ghostbone

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A fighting game can't be easy in the sense you're talking about.

What most people mean though is that it lacks significant depth.
 
Metakill

Metakill

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If some Brawl mod will be the "standard" hope will be P:M
but obv. that won't happen. so...
LET'S PLAY SUPER SMASH BROS METAKNIGHT!
 
MechaWave

MechaWave

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Metakill said:
If some Brawl mod will be the "standard" hope will be P:M
but obv. that won't happen. so...
LET'S PLAY SUPER SMASH BROS METAKNIGHT!
Click to expand...
It will probably co-exist along with the games once it's complete enough for competitive play. All that P:M needs is all the characters and whatever stages they want in then next thing you'll know they will be a P:M forum, tier list, ruleset and tournaments.
 
Steam

Steam

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I don't like minus because of how easy it is to just 0 death someone with like half the roster...

I don't think project M probably won't be here to stay, it'll fade like plus and minus.
 
Mr.Jackpot

Mr.Jackpot

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Steam said:
I don't like minus because of how easy it is to just 0 death someone with like half the roster...

I don't think project M probably won't be here to stay, it'll fade like plus and minus.
Click to expand...
No, because Project M goes WAY beyond any other mod in terms of hacking, and it's what everybody wanted from Brawl+ anyways.
 
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