Social SGD: The hedgehogs are back in town.

So the Spinshot > Platform Cancel is pretty simple. The RSDSC > Shielddrop Bair is a bit annoying.

Yo Oreo, we are past Smashville. Thats ancient history. D1aos won and there is no point in anyone else trying to be as good as him.

Its officially the "D1AOS Trapezoid approach" now.

Tesh said:

Yo Oreo, we are past Smashville. Thats ancient history. D1aos won and there is no point in anyone else trying to be as good as him.

Its officially the "D1AOS Trapezoid approach" now.

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Hell @#$%ing no.

@ Everyone else - Let me get all the general/easy to answer stuff out of the way, since I said I was going to do this sooner and I still haven't done anything out of sheer laziness.

GIMR did a lot of research when he made that video I assume. I'm going to be ignoring everything that's on-hit, as what I'm mainly concerned about is the on-block stuff; there isn't anything in that video that isn't accurate.

What it is is that it's a very isolated sample. In this case, it's Battlefield's level two platforms.

I don't know what exactly it is, but I would figure that in these cases it's a characters stats that determine whatever happens as a result of this mechanic. For Sonic, he's the next closest thing to average without going to Mario. Average height, average fall speed, yada yada yada.

It's either that, or maybe each character is actually unique in the sense that their animation only belongs to them. This would explain why characters like Wario/MK/Etc. who are light, slow-fallers, or shorties and stubbies get put into this situation despite their anomaly if this is the case. I understand GIMR did not explain why it works, just how, who, what, and where (here on Battlefield).

If it wasn't already made clear, this is only if the characters are facing in towards the platform. If their back is facing towards the platform, every character can immediately act and this mechanic is null.

... Or at least to the point where you can't force them to get a bouncing landing. What some of you may not be aware of is that Sonic's pressure game because more of a coin flip in your favor all around. My only concern is the characters who have invincible attacks like Marth, but in the case that the opponent does have their back facing in towards the platform all you would need to do is make sure that they're close to the edge; close enough that they'll get pushed off.

Fair is a wonderful aerial for this kind of pressure, as it has 6 hits all-together and it just takes one to get the next hits to land. Now if the sixth hit knocks them off you're kind of screwed, if the opponent were to have their back facing away from the platform and they didn't get knocked down you'd be kind of screwed, but that can be alleviated with a good judgement call.

Going back to the other scenario, Sonic has not one but two ways to almost force the opponent to get put into this situation with Back and Neutral Aerials. For what it's worth, their shieldstun is moderate, and both have phenomenal shield pushback, which is what you'll be looking for in the case that the opponent is not immediately on the edge of the platform.

The best part is that the only variable is the character and the platform itself. I held off from doing this up until now because I did not know whether or not shieldstun also played a factor in determining the hard landing and I didn't feel like going into the game only to find out I had more work cut out for me than what I would be willing to put up with. Ankoku is a brilliant man, I believe him when he says that it won't change a thing.

... Which is why I was also thinking that for characters we can't jab-lock either, we might just possibly be able to guarantee an UTilt with the right positioning. This I'm looking forward to figuring out in the end, but for now, I just hope I deconfirmed some myths and reassured facts and whatnot.

... I may end up making a new thread for this all-together. The community guide isn't exactly the place for research, and leaving everything here would just eventually get lost.



Amirite gaiz?!

... Ha, yeah right, specific thread it is.

This is really something I should put in like metagame or Brawl tactical though, since this isn't specific to Sonic, not the majority of this anyway, heh.

But I like/can tolerate you guys enough to leave it here, and leave everyone else in the dark. At least I'm not hiding it, just not publicizing it trolololol.

Didn't you already have a thread last year for research...
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=272981

Truthfully I did, but I made that thread for the small things.

Big projects like this I believe deserve/warrant their own place.

Big projects are boring though. Can't we just spam spindash cancels until people get confused/scared?

Make a time machine that takes us back to March '08 and yeah sure wynaut?

I like the ring that "time-travellin' n****s" brings actually.

Just then, maybe Sonic could actually be lolhigh-tier.

Lol. Tesh. You make me laugh a lot.

Though, Kinzer, it sounds like a good idea. Or at least the whole making a thread dedicated to it. Sounds like a lot to do and stuff, so if help is needed/wanted then I don't mind sharing my services for it! If there is anything I can do at the least lol.

Tesh said:

Yo Oreo, we are past Smashville. Thats ancient history. D1aos won and there is no point in anyone else trying to be as good as him.

Its officially the "D1AOS Trapezoid approach" now.

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Pfft, "no point" is the domain of the uncreative. If I were actually good at this kind of thing I could do one better.

Spinshot, platform cancel, b-reversed Spin Dash, shield cancel, platform drop OOS. Aerial spinshot, b-reversed ASC (this IS possible right?), shield cancel as you land on the platform, platform drop OOS, autocanceled aerial.

At this point you should be in roughly the position you started. Assuming it's doable, it should be doable until the platform gets too far offstage. (If you're too far back, drift forward while you do the final aerial, or ASC more quickly after the spinshot, or figure out something else, or just land normally instead of platform canceling the next spinshot.)

Then we'll figure out some new shenanigans for the few seconds the platform is there! Maybe as it's heading out, you spinshot, platform cancel, NON-breveresed Spin Dash, SC-PDOOS, bair the ledge, double jump to bair/fair it again and regrab. Ledge hop ASC, shield cancel, grounded spinshot to the platform, fancy dropthrough of your choice, ASC towards the ledge, jump out near the ledge, attack the ledge, regrab. Platform should be moving by now. Then ledge jump, platform cancel, start the cycle again... I kinda wanna work in buffered uair somewhere just for showiness.

Of course, I have marginal techskill at best, so I could never pull off something like this. What I do have is theorycrafting

GLHF

On an unrelated note, I'm pretty sure my Marth is significantly better than my Sonic now (Kinz knows this doesn't take much ), but I don't have any way to be sure...

u cant b reverse asc, that would be ridiculously awesome

Awwwww -_- weird because other characters definitely can (I b-reverse Marth's counter sometimes)

Surely there's some such shenanigan we can pull off...

Just wondering, Since we are on the B-Reverse topic, can you B-Reverse Homing Attack?

Oh and if this was a dumb question sorry. lol. Just curious.

I'm not sure if you can "B-reverse" it. Since you lose all horizontal momentum (except knockback/unfriendly), its kind of hard to tell. I know you can do a B turnaround, which is basically turning around before the move starts (buffering it in the other direction).

As far as relevance goes....yes, you can homing attack in the other direction, but not ASC.

Espy hits Kprime with Fsmash, 4 times in a row:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaQxRrk03Qw&t=2m42s



Edit: .... with 6 attempts LoL

Tesh said:

I'm not sure if you can "B-reverse" it. Since you lose all horizontal momentum (except knockback/unfriendly), its kind of hard to tell. I know you can do a B turnaround, which is basically turning around before the move starts (buffering it in the other direction).

As far as relevance goes....yes, you can homing attack in the other direction, but not ASC.

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Was just thinking more in a sense of positioning yourself better and not for momentum. Like for times when your off stage and slowly returning and you want to use Homing Attack to move towards the stage but your facing away. If you get what I mean.

True Blue said:

Was just thinking more in a sense of positioning yourself better and not for momentum. Like for times when your off stage and slowly returning and you want to use Homing Attack to move towards the stage but your facing away. If you get what I mean.

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Yes, in that sense, you can B-Reverse HA. Believe it or not, knowing that has saved me from death a few times.

Anyway guys, I don't know if KTAR is Friday or Saturday, but either way, do oyur best everyone!

Oh and Wedge, for you in particular, go and win them salty runbacks. Break those cuffs n***a!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LwuwpliBk8&feature=related

Good job Trent! You deserve it! Twas a good video!

Go Trent!!

So tomorrow we got 4 Sonics(and a falco) at KTAR 6 and 4 Sonics at Nikefest 4. .

Hopefully good things happen.

that's still 3 to many

ugh i wanna play all of you

Kinzer
its looking bleak for utah to come to Sin3 (cept X of course) then again X is the only one that matters
transportation > utah

D1AOS on KTAR stream right now
http://brawlstream.vgbootcamp.com/

Can't decide which was more of a spectacle, the match on FD, or every 9 out of 10 comments on the conjoining chat being "SONIC SUX LOLOLOLOLOL" related.

I didn't catch the name of the other person who was playing. Who was that?

Ofc I get kicked off the computer three minutes into the game -_-

I believe it was Atomsk

Got 4th at a big Texas tournament today. Lost to Trela and Dojo, but with the exception of vs. Dojo third game, they were all very good games.

And they were all recorded. I'm excited to show them off.

...as soon as Nike uploads them from the ton of videos being set up from this event.

Oh, and Sonic vs. Lucario isn't a hard counter. I've been thoroughly convinced.

Espy Kasrani said:

Oh, and Sonic vs. Lucario isn't a hard counter. I've been thoroughly convinced.

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:D
:D
:DD
:DDD
:DDDDD
:DDDDDDDD

(then what is it? -2?)

Probably somewhere between -1 and -2.

Awaiting further details as you are prepared to dispense them.

...or we could just watch the vids when they go up

Lucario down, Wario, Falco, Wolf, Olimar, MK, Diddy, and maybe ICs to go.

Wario, Falco, Wolf, and ICs are only -1, silly.
And maybe Olimar.

Diddy and MK suck though.

Winning bad matchups is threading a needle. Gotta find the eye...

On a related note, Junebug is amazing.

Hey, I wonder if Kinzer needs to pick a new favorite matchup now...

It never felt like Lucario was a hard counter lol. Makes it easier for me when I started to learn how to play Lucario as a secondary when I play with friends though. Only thing that I think makes it difficult is when Lucario's range increases with the more damage he has.

I outplaced goggles today. As did shado.
Speed and D1AOS outplaced us all.
Speed beat Seibrik and Rj in some pretty hype sets.
I had seagull winners round one (1-2, videos uploading tomorrow), flannel losers round one (2-0), and then gunblade bodied me losers round 2. He was ****** mad sonics today. Plus he told me he sandbagged goggles when he beat him, which just isn't right.
Goggles didn't win a single match today.
I was in game 3 of a salty runback MM stocks tied at 2 with gunblade when keitaro got on our ****s and kicked us off the setup.
went 2 and 1 in falcon ditto MMs.
shado got bodied hard but still got a free round 1 winners, so he was saved lol.
d1aos and I placed similarly to speed/shado in doubles around 17th.
/ktar6

Diddy a hard counter for Sonic? I thought it was as easy as gaining banana control... unless... it's not that easy anymore?

I also heard that Sonic's don't lose to Olimar anymore... so what the deal with that?

Can't wait to see video of you going off on a Lucario though. lol. Not a hard counter anymore? Nice. But then again... Lucario is only a hard counter if he gets the lead. He can literally sit on it. Forever. What's the new tech to stop that?

Run away for 4 minutes

Spend 2 minutes getting chip damage with DAs and throws up to about 80%.

Flee for the last two minutes.

Include potential gimp opportunities whenever possible.

Victory?

Good stuff guys!

Can't wait to meet most of you all and take you all on at APEX 2012. You reminded me though, Wedge...

Gotta rematch and beat Gunblade. If he goes, that is.