falco matchup discussion

Hax · Aug 16, 2011

this is by far CF's worst matchup imo. lasers are so devastating because falcon is so tall / falcon has no out of shield options / etc.

i'll start with a few pointers

-play the matchup extremely offensively; you can't play defense because it's such a bad idea to get stuck in your shield vs falco
-nair over lasers
-learn to powershield (in theory if a falcon player could do this perfectly, i think he'd have a winning falco matchup)
-side-b is completely safe when techchasing because falco is too slow to punish you if it misses. at mid % it goes into usmash -> knee for the stock
-all falcos are gonna do when they try to recover is side-b because the moment they up-b they die. stay parallel to him at all times and stick out an aerial with a long-lasting hitbox (knee or bair) to stop the side-b

if anyone would like to add to this list go ahead. i'm trying to help others + learn things simultaneously through this thread

0Room · Aug 16, 2011

Hax said:
-learn to powershield (in theory if a falcon player could do this perfectly, i think he'd have a winning falco matchup)

Personally I disagree
Do you really think that a Falco who can only laser you when you're off the ground would LOSE against Falcon?

As PP said
Powershield is not the cure all everyone assumes it is

Tekk · Aug 16, 2011

Nair is really good a blocking falco's sideB, covers a long period of time, and will hit him even if he times it.
So, his only choice is to go for the ledge, which you can take away from him thanks to nair's almost nonlag.

So it goes like this:
-throw falco offstage
-SH nair at the same time he DJs
-if he doesn't side B on your nair, go for the ledge
-falco is dead

Dr Peepee · Aug 16, 2011

You can play defensive but not shield a lot.....holding the stage vs Falco usually nets an approach from him like with any other character. Just don't get hit by a laser and lock up like everyone does. SDI it and/or just move if you take a laser. Screws with spacing and all that anyway lol.

Nair doesn't **** high lasers. To adapt, you must learn the Falco's laser habits and side B under medium/high lasers and Nair over low ones. This can all be baited but it holds the gun in check which is great for you because it lets you move more.

I like falling through platforms with moves on Falco. Keeps him from shooting me so much and Falco can't defend as well if you're falling on him as opposed to coming at him from the side(seriously guys you can stomp OOS and hit the uptilt without trading lol abuse that type of property).

There's some stuff I think.

ETWIST51294 · Aug 16, 2011

This is ****ing key.

You don't want to throw your controller at the wall because you got ***** by a ****** Falco.

Losing to non-****** Falco's is just makes me a sad panda..

0Room · Aug 16, 2011

edit;
This is actually a really good match to watch about Falco
Basically dealing with CC options
Powershielding
edgeguarding
stage control

Watch it
love it
live it

anywho just finished a cool discussion with Zhu about Falcon/Falco
If I find a way to reformat this I will

But here you go

COLLAPSED FOR SPACE REASONS
BE PREPARED

Lloyd Ikari
7:42 PM
Hey Zhu
7:42 PM
It's 0Room
7:42 PM
If you had some time

pigm00ner
7:43 PM
ooo hey

Lloyd Ikari
7:43 PM
I'd liek to talk to you about Falco/Falcon

pigm00ner
7:43 PM
ahhh yeah
7:43 PM
anything in particular?

Lloyd Ikari
7:43 PM
Just looking for mindset

pigm00ner
7:43 PM
mmm

Lloyd Ikari
7:43 PM
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=309062

pigm00ner
7:43 PM
falcos side or falcons?

Lloyd Ikari
7:43 PM
Hax made a thread btw
7:43 PM
/relevance
7:43 PM
It was totally unrelated to this though
7:43 PM
Ummm
7:44 PM
I'd say Falco's for now
7:44 PM
Like
7:44 PM
What are Falco's main goals
7:44 PM
And what does he do to accomplish them,

pigm00ner
7:44 PM
hmm
7:44 PM
i generally try to punish landings
7:45 PM
i basically assume i won't get any shines / hits on falcon when he's on the ground
7:45 PM
so usually i try to force falcon to full hop
7:45 PM
and punish his landing
7:45 PM
so i try to get falcon when he lands on a platform in particular
7:45 PM
with falco's shine (under a platform) waveland
7:45 PM
that thing

Lloyd Ikari
7:45 PM
So most Falcon's do fullhop?

pigm00ner
7:45 PM
yeah

Lloyd Ikari
7:45 PM
Because that's something that I've been learning

pigm00ner
7:45 PM
fullhop is the best solution

Lloyd Ikari
7:45 PM
is really really good

pigm00ner
7:46 PM
and honestly the only way to approach a good falco
7:46 PM
the problem with that is it's really hard for falcon to set the pacing
7:46 PM
but what most falcons don't realize
7:46 PM
is that they're really hard for falco to catch
7:46 PM
i think they underestimate how much work falco has to put
7:46 PM
just to get simple hits

Lloyd Ikari
7:46 PM
Mmhmm

pigm00ner
7:46 PM
falcon is actually pretty tough to catch
7:46 PM
so the matchup is kinda
7:46 PM
cat and mouse
7:46 PM
on both sides
7:47 PM
so the mixups with the fullhops
7:47 PM
are usually like
7:47 PM
forward fullhop or backward full hop
7:47 PM
you can fake an approach / push falco into a corner
7:47 PM
and then trap him there

Lloyd Ikari
7:47 PM
okay

pigm00ner
7:47 PM
or try to hit falco
7:47 PM
in between his lasers
7:47 PM
if he doesn't space himself well
7:47 PM
and yeah as hax said
7:48 PM
being very aggro is good imo
7:48 PM
if you find those openings
7:48 PM
realistically a falco is just gonna keep lasering
7:48 PM
but if you can prevent this then falcon can win

Lloyd Ikari
7:48 PM
Basically you feel like Lasers are what need to be countered?

pigm00ner
7:48 PM
well
7:48 PM
sort of
7:48 PM
lasers only do so much
7:49 PM
lasers don't make it that much easier
7:49 PM
for falco to hit falco
7:49 PM
falcon*
7:49 PM
they make it harder for falcon to hit falco
7:49 PM
that's all

Lloyd Ikari
7:49 PM
So the same way that Hugs was talking about the SAmus/Falco match up
7:49 PM
Stopping offense with yours

pigm00ner
7:49 PM
yeah
7:49 PM
basically
7:50 PM
i think the mindset falcon should have is
7:50 PM
thinking in terms of damage ratio
7:50 PM
hitting falco while taking less
7:50 PM
mos tfalcons just try to **** falco
7:50 PM
but i think the key is to not give falco free hits
7:50 PM
learn to space things so falco can't get in

Lloyd Ikari
7:50 PM
And what do you mean by that?
7:50 PM
Lol you beat me to it

pigm00ner
7:50 PM
and once falco is conditioned
7:51 PM
to play too conservatively / scared
7:51 PM
that's when falcon should go in
7:51 PM
that's kinda what mango does to me in particular
7:51 PM
but i mean
7:51 PM
i'm not too sure what the right way to play it is
7:51 PM
ss for example almost never full hops
7:51 PM
he just stays in his shield
7:51 PM
and approaches from the ground
7:51 PM
but it works for him

Lloyd Ikari
7:52 PM
Well there never is a "right way" lol
7:52 PM
Just your experiences

pigm00ner
7:52 PM
haha yeah

Lloyd Ikari
7:52 PM
And that's basically what I was asking for

pigm00ner
7:52 PM
well "right way" as in
7:52 PM
the way i think is best
7:52 PM
and i'm honestly not too sure
7:52 PM
but full hops
7:52 PM
seem to be the most popular
7:52 PM
but i feel like

Lloyd Ikari
7:52 PM
well because they're easy

pigm00ner
7:52 PM
if falco really sees the pattern
7:52 PM
he'll **** it eventually
7:52 PM
so i'm not sure haha

Lloyd Ikari
7:53 PM
seems more like a player thing than a character thing imo

pigm00ner
7:53 PM
mmm
7:53 PM
yeah
7:53 PM
it's weird cause
7:53 PM
this is one of the matchups
7:53 PM
i have the most experience in
7:53 PM
but i feel like i have very little to say about it

Lloyd Ikari
7:53 PM
Lol I know what you mean

pigm00ner
7:53 PM
there aren't many specifics that i do
7:53 PM
in particular to falcon
7:54 PM
i kinda just chase him
7:54 PM
LOL

Lloyd Ikari
7:54 PM
Yeah
7:54 PM
Well I mean you have to

pigm00ner
7:54 PM
but i mean
7:54 PM
i don't know if many falcons know this
7:54 PM
but its actually really frustrating
7:54 PM
for a falco to chase falcon
7:54 PM
it's hard caues falcon's so fast
7:54 PM
i mean all falcos know how frustrating it is for falcons
7:54 PM
but i think most falcons assume falcos think its free

Lloyd Ikari
7:54 PM
because we john about it
7:54 PM
as loud as possible
7:55 PM

pigm00ner
7:55 PM
but its not that free of a matchup
7:55 PM
at least not in our minds
7:55 PM
but yeah
7:55 PM
oh i know
7:55 PM
good falcons
7:55 PM
kinda play brawl style
7:55 PM
they space attacks
7:55 PM
to not hit
7:55 PM
like
7:55 PM
mango throws attacks alot of the time

Lloyd Ikari
7:55 PM
Like S2J said

pigm00ner
7:55 PM
to intentionally miss
7:55 PM
and just push me out

Lloyd Ikari
7:56 PM
And then catch you when you retaliate

pigm00ner
7:56 PM
yeah
7:56 PM
exactly
7:56 PM
gotta do a lot of safe baits

Lloyd Ikari
7:56 PM
yeah because S2J was talking about on shield
7:56 PM
whiff a bair [autocancelled]
7:56 PM
and then ftilt

pigm00ner
7:56 PM
LOL
7:56 PM
that's interesting

Lloyd Ikari
7:56 PM
I mean that's just a player thing
7:56 PM
Mindgames

pigm00ner
7:56 PM
ahha
7:56 PM
i don't recommend
7:57 PM
shielding too much
7:57 PM
against good falcos
7:57 PM
LOL
7:57 PM
or at least

Lloyd Ikari
7:57 PM
Lol you gotta come to the Falcon boards more man
7:57 PM
we say some dumb ****

pigm00ner
7:57 PM
don't let them in the shield
7:57 PM
hahahaha
7:57 PM
all the boards suck these days

Lloyd Ikari
7:57 PM
Yeah that's soemthing I've been working on
7:57 PM
is shield pressure

pigm00ner
7:57 PM
unfortunately for falcon

Lloyd Ikari
7:57 PM
Yeah I know, but I've been trying to keep it classy

pigm00ner
7:57 PM
his shield pressure

Lloyd Ikari
7:57 PM
Keep things moving/discussion centered

pigm00ner
7:57 PM
can be reacted to

Lloyd Ikari
7:57 PM
Yeah it can

pigm00ner
7:57 PM
even if you do mixups
7:57 PM
it's really obvoius
7:57 PM
what you're trying to go for
7:58 PM
cause most falcos
7:58 PM
are used to like
7:58 PM
lightning fast fox pressure
7:58 PM
we're ready for any late aerial / jab / grab mixups
7:58 PM
=/

Lloyd Ikari
7:58 PM
Yep
7:58 PM
But at least your shine sucks horizontall
7:58 PM
y
7:58 PM

pigm00ner
7:58 PM
haha yeah

Lloyd Ikari
7:58 PM
I dunno
7:58 PM
Again I've been trying to work with it
7:58 PM
Because it's just mindgames
7:59 PM
Getting you to select an option I want you to select and punishing it

pigm00ner
7:59 PM
yeah exactly
7:59 PM
it's even tougher cause
7:59 PM
there are so few opportunities
7:59 PM
to condition falco anyways
7:59 PM
it's very rare that i see falcon getting to shield pressure falco these days

Lloyd Ikari
7:59 PM
Yep
7:59 PM
Well I meant in general
8:00 PM
But I know what you're saying
8:00 PM
It's the same thing with tech chases
8:00 PM
You rarely get a chance to watch for patterns

Juggleguy · Aug 16, 2011

Hitting Falco's shield with an overshot nair or a spaced knee is an ideal starting point and a decent step to victory for Falcon, it's just gay when you misspace by a little bit and eat a shine OoS, leading to a guaranteed 50%, so Falcon's aerials have to be spaced really well and really consistently. Rolling isn't terrible, but I feel like WD OoS counter attacks can **** Falco's zoning game, like his nair-shine-fadeaway-nair, or his overshot aerial on your shield, or a misspaced attempt to laser grab. Especially with a running nair after a WD OoS, nobody expects you to jump at them with that kind of horizontal reach after you've been stuck in your shield for a couple seconds.

Hax · Aug 16, 2011

0Room, if lasers weren't a part of the equation then yes, Falcon would beat Falco. Falcon's zoning would be too much for laser-less Falco imo

Peepee, i like what you said about nair beating low lasers and side-b beating high lasers. the good thing about this 50-50 is that neither nair nor side-b gets punished if you guess wrong, since the laser will hit Falcon and interrupt either of those moves.

Roneblaster · Aug 16, 2011

I read it all. getting the most out of every grab are of utmost importance.

0Room · Aug 16, 2011

Hax said:
0Room, if lasers weren't a part of the equation then yes, Falcon would beat Falco. Falcon's zoning would be too much for laser-less Falco imo

No lasers at all, yes

But even if you PS every laser ever
The second you jump
PS is no longer an option

Veetaak · Aug 16, 2011

Please, don't teach them the match-up :troll:

On a serious note though: From my experience offensive falcons who get to me through my wall of lasers are probably the best ones to beat me. As long as you knock falco down to the ground or get a grab then you should really try to do the most out of it. Flying over SHLs with a nair to tech chase/grab is really effective and you could maybe try to bait lasers at a certain height so that you can come from the other height where there are no lasers. I don't know how effective that would be but I'm thinking of if a Falcon fulljumps, making the falco laser high, fast falls immidiatly and then runs towards falco on the ground. If that works you should be close to falco and he shoudn't be comfortable lasering you and maybe you could get an attack off as he is landing. But Idk really, it's probably my best match-up as Falco

Roneblaster · Aug 16, 2011

Dont be afraid to throw out side bs at falco, just dont be predictable about it. Ive started to do it vs falcos i play. Like hax said, if falco is just pewpewing, the side b will be stopped by a lazer and the situation resets. Howeverrrrr if falco predicts the side b they can just wait for it and dair > shine > standard falco combo for atleast 50%.

0Room · Aug 16, 2011

Eh
It's just really easy to CC->Shine :/
I think that's one of the bigger obstacles

making sure that you're spaced properly at all times

And Lol Roneblaster
The only issue with that is when they're approaching laser
Because then they just get this big smile on their face

Roneblaster · Aug 16, 2011

If their sh lazering they wont often be ready to CC it.

Its not foolproof, but theres a reason the matchup is so widely accepted as in falcos favor. (Because it is)

0Room · Aug 16, 2011

I agree
But I think with the right mindset we can turn this into a sheik situation

Where she's still bad but manageable
Just what that mindset is right now...I dunno

Roneblaster · Aug 16, 2011

Ending combos with dropzone. Thats how i get into thr falco slaying mindset.

Da Shuffla · Aug 17, 2011

0Room said:
No lasers at all, yes

But even if you PS every laser ever
The second you jump
PS is no longer an option

Falco only shoots lasers high b/c he suspects an aerial approach.

But would a Falcon with perfect powershielding actually need to jump when trying to approach Falco?

_Rocky_ · Aug 17, 2011

I think the goal is simply put to just scare the falco with sheer ruthlessness

then you can play like vs fox almost and beat him when you get inside

ofc spunky (such as veetaak and this is GOOD) and robot players make this hard to achieve... i dunno what else to say really, its probably one of my worst and most inconsistent matchups

Pr0jecT · Aug 17, 2011

I like to look at it this way.

Falco is a character where he gets placed in "deadzones" where Falcon is affluent in punishing and staying inside of. When a falco is being pressured and can't get the space to Laser or Shine you, he is in his "deadzone" and you should be focused on applying pressure without getting too greedy and losing your pressure with silly **** like over extended Nairs. Falco needs to be "on the run" almost when being techchased and unless you capitalize on everything you're gonna be fighting an uphill battle all game.

Falco is very punishable and his recovery sucks, he's gimpable in the same way Falcon is offstage. Everytime hes off stage you should be able to take the stock. Vice versa; Falcon loses every single time off stage to 3 moves. Lasers + Fsmash + Dair.

A falco should be able to Laser you to cover any chances of recovering high. That means Fsmash is coming your way since it covers below the stage and Run off Dairs we'll break your **** too if you try to jump sweetspot too fast after things like low-mid % throws. (Shiz used to do this to me alot as well as Backthrow > Full jump Dair near the ledge)

You can't be too ruthless and super aggro against Falco because any half decent player will learn to either Shine OOS or my personal favorite: UP TILT

Back to back you should NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER Dair OOS backwards at him. Holy **** you stupid idiot don't do it because if I ever play you I guarantee you'll get hit with 3 more Up Tilts to follow while feeling silly the entire time for thinking it would work

Utilt is so ****ing dangerous against Falcon in the matchup its rage inducing. It stops his stomp and combos into itself waaaay to well.

Lasers are another incredibly frustrating thing about the matchup. Proper laser game shuts down Falcon and HARD. Like PP said learning laser patterns + power shielding is really the only way to get around them.

I personally find this to be Falcons hardest matchup by a good margin.

Aussierob123 · Aug 17, 2011

I never understand how players like hax rarely get utilted by spacies. I mean I'm ok at avoiding them most of the time but i will get hit by one every now and then, and then i often get hit by another one too. Usually if I DI out of it, i get fsmashed aswell lol.

Also you forgot to mention falco's bair for edgeguarding. It makes recovering high very difficult too.

0Room · Aug 18, 2011

Lmao one of my friends Josh [Darksyde]
was utilting me like 4 times
and he said

"You gotta DI that away"

And I was like
"No I wanna CC it so I dont get Fsmashed/baired/naired/faired/lasered/shined/daired/ftilted/jabbed/grabbed/*****"

And he just looked at me
and utilted me again

Windrose · Aug 18, 2011

Pr0jecT said:
I like to look at it this way.

Falco is a character where he gets placed in "deadzones" where Falcon is affluent in punishing and staying inside of. When a falco is being pressured and can't get the space to Laser or Shine you, he is in his "deadzone" and you should be focused on applying pressure without getting too greedy and losing your pressure with silly **** like over extended Nairs. Falco needs to be "on the run" almost when being techchased and unless you capitalize on everything you're gonna be fighting an uphill battle all game.

Falco is very punishable and his recovery sucks, he's gimpable in the same way Falcon is offstage. Everytime hes off stage you should be able to take the stock. Vice versa; Falcon loses every single time off stage to 3 moves. Lasers + Fsmash + Dair.

A falco should be able to Laser you to cover any chances of recovering high. That means Fsmash is coming your way since it covers below the stage and Run off Dairs we'll break your **** too if you try to jump sweetspot too fast after things like low-mid % throws. (Shiz used to do this to me alot as well as Backthrow > Full jump Dair near the ledge)

You can't be too ruthless and super aggro against Falco because any half decent player will learn to either Shine OOS or my personal favorite: UP TILT

Back to back you should NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER Dair OOS backwards at him. Holy **** you stupid idiot don't do it because if I ever play you I guarantee you'll get hit with 3 more Up Tilts to follow while feeling silly the entire time for thinking it would work

Utilt is so ****ing dangerous against Falcon in the matchup its rage inducing. It stops his stomp and combos into itself waaaay to well.

Lasers are another incredibly frustrating thing about the matchup. Proper laser game shuts down Falcon and HARD. Like PP said learning laser patterns + power shielding is really the only way to get around them.

I personally find this to be Falcons hardest matchup by a good margin.

s2j and pp said stomp can beat utilt if spaced properly. (non fast falled stomp).

I've yet to accomplish this but they say stomp oos when non fast falled can beat u-tilt...

i'm not sure if that's only in specific spacing situations (ie. it won't work if you're back to back with falco)

0Room · Aug 19, 2011

FH stomp OoS

Tommy Pickles · Aug 19, 2011

You need to have plenty of swag or else the match up is impossible.

Windrose · Aug 19, 2011

0Room said:
FH stomp OoS

Serious? =( Is that the only one that works vs utilt? I thought they meant that sh stomp oos but not fast falled =(

0Room · Aug 19, 2011

Windrose said:
Serious? =( Is that the only one that works vs utilt? I thought they meant that sh stomp oos but not fast falled =(

Yes I'm serious windrose ):<
That's the only one that works
and that's iffy

Dr Peepee · Aug 19, 2011

LOL you can do the SH stomp OOS

Walt · Aug 19, 2011

Yeah, the timing is weird but sh stomp oos will beat utilt but it's timing and spacing specific. do it at the wrong spot and you get hit when falcon tucks himself into a ball right before stomp come out.

0Room · Aug 19, 2011

Dr Peepee said:
LOL you can do the SH stomp OOS

Oh see I always learned it was FH
And that if you did SH you're a noob and didn't understand the game

funny how that irony works

R00R · Aug 19, 2011

0Room said:
Oh see I always learned it was FH
And that if you did SH you're a noob and didn't understand the game

funny how that irony works

Its almost as if you have no idea what you are talking about and are just regurgitating what you have heard from other.

Wenbobular · Aug 19, 2011

Damn bro leave 0room alone >:O
Dair OoS gets stuffed cold by crossover Nair -> Bair but what can you do

When I played PP it seemed like he was shooting lasers that I couldn't Nair or side-b under <_< but I could just be bad at judging when side-b goes under stuff

Also I think Falcos that know how to hold down are the worst <_< it's pretty hard to use one of your anti-CC moves (knee and stomp) through lasers, but Nair gets pretty ***** if they just hold down when they see you coming in

0Room · Aug 19, 2011

R00R said:
Its almost as if you're just regurgitating what you have heard from other.

Pretty much this
I tried it and was told it didn't work so I basically took it as truth
considering I was a nub when I heard this and the person who told me was way better than I was

Hax · Aug 20, 2011

dair OOS is bad idea. Aussierob, the reason i don't get hit by utilt is because i don't try to dair OOS

JPeGImage · Aug 21, 2011

dairing oos vs utilt seems to be akin to SGing a falco's dair/nair back in the day. It was thought to be always always bad, but once we realized that it could be done once the falco messed up and hit top of shield (or we moved shield so they'd hit it sooner), grabbing or dairing seemed to work.
maybe it's the same in this case?

Now, these may not be the greatest examples, but I found two instances in games ive played where a dair oos didnt work after falco's utilt, and one where it did
I think they will suffice in getting my main point across
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pzlOgKWqRY&feature=related&t=141

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pzlOgKWqRY&feature=related&t=518

Most variables are the same. The falco utilts at the same rate in each and I jump oos at, what i think, is the earliest time possible in each. The biggest difference appears to be where the utilt hits and when im able to jump oos. I'll use a gif of the hitboxes as a reference point.

In the first video, if you pause it right before the utilt comes out and after the move comes out, my shield is moved to the left (not sure why. . . seems bad lol) and so when he hits, the little hit bubble popped on the shield when his leg is extended outwards in the 180 degree position, and so he had enough time to get out the next utilt by the time i was barely able to jump (i know it is a bair and not a dair, but im about 98% sure that, with how close I was to him, it wouldnt have made a difference)

In the second, if you again pause right before the move even comes out, youll see that the edge of my shield is just about touching him, and so when the move comes out, the attack actually occurs/hits when his leg is in the 45 degree angled downward position (refer back to the gif), giving me enough time to jump up, retract my legs, and be far enough away from the hitbox of his second utilt to completely avoid it and connect with the hit (the ******** choice i made afterwords to make sure I didnt follow up on the dair is irrelevant =p)
Now im not saying that being far enough away to barely be hit by the first one wont work either. . . this is just what I assume to be true at much closer distances

From how it looks, it's kind of is the inverse of when to attack oos when a falco dairs you (which makes sense, obv, seeing where the attack comes from)

I dont have anyone living near me to play, so I can only test this stuff during tournaments (which I sometimes forget to due to horrid memory), and I dont have AR, so I can't frame test this out. . . . . Im sort of like a poor man's Magus

So there's a decent chance that I could just be full of it
But yeah, am just curious about what you guys think about that and whether or not the evidence is conclusive. Im sure I can find other videos where I try dair oos vs utilt and lose, if you think I have one where i dair and not bair

And as long as Im here, ill ask a falco mu question.

are there any real good offensive options/mixups when youre directly below a platform and falco above it (assuming low %s on each char)? FH pop up nair out of shield? sometimes sh uair seems to trade and once it do, if the falco is low enough in % he just comes down after the hit and get to pressure my shield or gets a big combo in
if im not. Should I always just DD bait a platform falling dair/nair?

I was mostly talking about the side platforms on ys/dl/bf, but hell, you could include the high middle platform as well. Are there any tricks/mindgames that Im not thinking of save empty SHs?

Deleted member · Aug 21, 2011

always trade falco d-air with falcon up-air

Druggedfox · Aug 21, 2011

Something I've noticed no one uses (falcon mains or not) is wavelanding after you get hit by a laser. It's usually just you're trying to jump and falco lasers you, then treats it as a free approach; if you waveland backwards as soon as you get hit by the laser you can get a *lot* of free grabs. Even if it doesn't lead to a free grab, it gets you back to the ground faster so that you can avoid pressure. There's really no reason to ever do anything besides waveland after getting hit by a laser unless you can get an aerial out to hit him beforehand.

0Room · Aug 21, 2011

I didn't even know you could do that

But anyway, as far as Falco being above you on a platform, basically I don't think that as a character, you don't have any ways to beat them.
You just have to bait them
They love to come down with a dair

So that's all I really have to say about it

Winston · Aug 21, 2011

What? Why don't you just uair the crap out of them if they're above you? Unless they can shield drop, in which case have to be a bit more careful and bait it. Most people can't though, so it's a really good position for you to be in.

Juggleguy · Aug 21, 2011

I don't like using uair on people's shields when they're on a platform anymore. People have caught onto it and WD OoS -> runoff platform immediately after the uair. Honestly sometimes it's better to just up-B their shield and get a free 16%, or double jump nair gentleman to eat away at their shield and possibly get a free hit in on bad players.

Walt · Aug 21, 2011

Winston said:
What? Why don't you just uair the crap out of them if they're above you? Unless they can shield drop, in which case have to be a bit more careful and bait it. Most people can't though, so it's a really good position for you to be in.

Falco can just CC>dsmash it. There are times when it's safe but I'm am very wary of Falcos above me on platforms.

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