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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

noobird

Smash Journeyman
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There are either 4 or 5 shorten lengths, I don't really remember right now, haven't thought about it in too long. But you can shorten to one of any of those lengths just by pressing b at the right time.
Yeah there are 4 shorten lengths just checked Bones0's falco frame data. And they're all one frame from each other - think it's realistic to be able to do any one on command? Add another thing to the list for dr.pp ;D
 

FoxLisk

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Yeah there are 4 shorten lengths just checked Bones0's falco frame data. And they're all one frame from each other - think it's realistic to be able to do any one on command? Add another thing to the list for dr.pp ;D
I can wavedash consistently with every character (excepting maybe bowser), those timings are 1-2 frames apart. so yes i think it's realistic. you'd just have to put in a lot of time to learn it.
 

Wenbobular

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I can wavedash consistently with every character (excepting maybe bowser), those timings are 1-2 frames apart. so yes i think it's realistic. you'd just have to put in a lot of time to learn it.
Pretty sure that's fairly different than trying to hit different shorten lengths on command ...
 

Doomblaze

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in assuming he lost to Armada because he couldn't go tryhard, you're still ****riding him.
Mango lost to Armada because Armada can beat Mango now. And, at RoM 4, Mango is going to lose to Dr. PP because Dr. PP can beat Mango now and no one's going to accept it along similar lines of reasoning.

I found this post really funny.
when are the vids gonna be up for RoM? does anyone know?
 

BSeeD

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If I may, PP, with all due respect, I think I know what u'r missing.

U have the perfect game, u train a lot, but as said earlier I think u get stuck into ur schemes, and have hard time getting out of this.
Everything u do is precisely calculated amirite ?

U just miss some fantasy I guess.
The day u'll get that, u'll probably be the best for good.
 

noobird

Smash Journeyman
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Dec 22, 2010
Messages
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Pretty sure that's fairly different than trying to hit different shorten lengths on command ...
that's what i would think cause i can wavedash with every character as well but... shortening is another matter. Though I guess foxlisk may be right and you just need to put some time into it - now that wavedashing is like second nature we tend to forget how much we had to practice it to actually integrate it into our game; it's probably the same for shortening.
 

FoxLisk

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dude yeah. ive been playing smash for ... 5 years now, maybe six, competitively. i dont play as much anymore but there were years where i played 4-5 days a week, usually dozens of matches, wavedashing many times in each match. by comparison I shorten illusions, with no attention paid to which distance I get, once or twice a match, and only picked it up a year or two ago. Of COURSE i dont have the frame-by-frame; ive done it a tiny fraction of the times necessary to learn it with that precision. But I could, if I decided it was really important. I suspect the same is true of most people.
 

trahhSTEEZY

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pretty sure i can choose the distance pretty accurately.

speaking of that does anyone else cancel accidental forward b's? ive gotten like 90% consistency with it, people always end up laughing when they see me save myself.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
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for some reason i learned the pause and shake my head muscle memory instead of the illusion cancel muscle memory
 

trahhSTEEZY

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lmao, bad choice! it feels so good saving yourself from an SD.

really jpobs? is it just too fast or you don't try? i've always been overly-technical in friendlies, so after awhile of too many SDs i realized it would be a good investment :p
 

trahhSTEEZY

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@SUNG

just watching the first link, you have a solid game imo, your biggest flaw to me is your combo consistency, and also your survival ability. almost everytime you took a stock off wes, he'd come back and kill you basically right away. I feel your strategy of going to the ledge most of the time while he has invincibility isn't working.

i honestly feel the powershielding on a platform trick is hella good to use here and there. also just quick random rolls till they lose their invincibility is decent..

also im not sure if you were doing it, i might've missed it, but you need to shine OOS with good consistency, it can definitely make or break the ditto.

mix in more shine grabs and double shines, i felt you applied aerial pressure far too often by itself
 

Mogwai

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I want to expect better of you, but I know not to
Finally grew a brain and decided to ask for help

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pkk3DGRdqs&feature=channel_video_title
Another example but 3 weeks ago http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-qpK8ok5Es

I hate falco dittos with a burning passion it's my worst mu by far, is there something obvious I'm just not understanding in this match up? :(
why Yoshi's every game?

bair is a crutch for you, you're spamming it and all your first hits are coming from it, which sucks because low % bair in dittos doesn't lead to much at the spacing you're hitting it from.

basically, you never hits dairs, nairs or shines and the few times you do, you're missing follow ups. It's a pretty simple case of your opponent punishing you way harder because he's hitting with the moves that allow him to do so while you only feel comfortable spacing bairs from the neutral position. this probably spawns from the fact that your opponent has a much tighter shield pressure and OoS game than you do, so every time you guys end up close he styles on you, regardless of who's the aggressor. You need to get better at shine OoS and shield pressure mix ups so that you can actually get in close on him without losing the exchange 80% of the time. then when you get better at that, you need to get a lot better at following up. You can't be dropping shine combos before you dump 30+% on him the way you did in that match.
 

JPOBS

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lmao, bad choice! it feels so good saving yourself from an SD.

really jpobs? is it just too fast or you don't try? i've always been overly-technical in friendlies, so after awhile of too many SDs i realized it would be a good investment :p
I don't do it often. It only happens once every few dozen matches, so it catches me completely by surprise.

i'm with sveet, i got that pause muscle memory on lock.
 

noobird

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Dec 22, 2010
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choosing the distance for side-b would be tight. makes it possible to sweet spot the edge from like anywhere >.>. and lol when i accidentally side-b i just curse and don't do anything which is pretty dumb =P.
 

Sinji

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I was sick the whole weekend so I didn't see much of the live stream. I did get to see SWQ between M2k and PP. That was a good set. M2k looked as if he had it but PP pulled it off.

Also I would like to hear PP's experience when facing Mango.
 

Fågelholken

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Yeah me too. I mean, Mango played really well, but I feel like PP didn't play nearly as well as he has done before. Don't beat yourself up though PP, just use it as motivation to **** him at Apex. :)


For what it's worth, your beard > Mango's beard.
 

Dr Peepee

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Revival of Melee 4

I almost want to do separate posts talking about this tournament and then about Mango, but that would mean I'd give Mango more satisfaction and I'd be writing about why I'm pissed more instead of fixing it, so that's not happening don't ask.


I've never really written about a tournament experience just from just a smash(and not smash+social) perspective before, but I'll write this out chronologically and see how it feels. Maybe I'll find a better way to write about Apex.


Riding up to RoM4 in Yay's small car, I didn't think about anything except how much I wanted to beat Mango. It was literally my only goal of the tournament. I sort of added wanting to do well in teams while I was there, but that's a different thing entirely and still involves beating Mango. RoM4 was supposed to be my stepping stone into Apex where I bring out salty tryhard Mango and we played in finals after I beat Armada and redeemed myself and it would be amazing. However, I believe I got too caught up in my vision and confidence and this cost me before and during the tourney.


We get to the hotel pretty late like 4 AM or something so I don't get as much sleep as I'd like(maybe 7 hours) but it was enough to function for most of the day. I ate pizza on my own when I arrived at the venue both days(nothing was closer even though I know pizza is bad for your smash game I didn't want to have cold hands or be away from the venue more).


Day 1 I pretty much only played Mango and did pools. I came in, saw him friendlying against M2K's team, and then watched until M2K's team(and another that cut in front of me forgot who though) left before finally friendlying Mango.


Mango went Fox first. Things were kinda even then got pretty bad for me. I couldn't really bring myself to get incredibly into the match and quit trash talking because I just felt like I shouldn't have to and couldn't shake that notion for a while. It was really annoying and part of the reason I'm contemplating holding off trash talk so I have nothing to convince myself to hold back with next time I ever play a game of Melee. This mindset screwed me over throughout the entire tournament and in finals.


Eventually, I got serious and started beating up on Mango's Fox. He recognized it was going too badly for him so he switched to Falco(I would **** Mango's Fox in tournament for anyone reading.....I have a theory about Mango's Fox but just know that).

The dittos were pretty intense initially. He was going neutral Falco(it matters). He definitely won more of them though. I was pushing hard though. Eventually this pushing wore me out(I was learning a lot I didn't realize I didn't know about Falco and the ditto that Mango did and was showing through his play) and Mango would beat up on me several games in a row and it was tough to listen to. Then I would catch my mental wind and go back to pushing hard and jockeying for position etc etc tryharding.

Eventually I forced Mango to play full on seriously. He plays blue Falco when he does this(so you all know). I was playing pretty well vs him by then but I was so mentally fatigued from trying to figure out what was going on with his new approaches and mixups he did(had to relearn since it was harder/newer than what neutral Falco did) and he already knew a lot of what I would do so it seems fairly uneven in terms of how much stamina was required to play those friendlies but it was a good learning experience. I only took 2 games off of serious blue Falco I think and we played upwards of 15.


We played again after singles pools and I was so worn out by that time that it was mostly me getting whupped by Falco(I wouldn't let him go Fox because I wanted to spend my time getting ***** learning about what he was doing instead of trying to win).


I played PC afterward. I couldn't hit confirm to combo really by this point but I managed a 4 stock in our second game and then decided it would be okay if I didn't pop an eye vessel trying to play with whatever mental stamina I had left for the rest of our friendlies so I dropped a couple games. He's incredibly smart though and surprised me quite a few times. The man would have clocked in at RoM4 for sure. Definite top 5 at that tournament in my opinion.



Day 2....


I friendlied Mango again as soon as I got some free time. I think he tracked me down that time. He didn't friendly anyone besides me I think. I warmed him up super well and I think he likes playing me for that reason.

Those friendlies were similar to the second session of the previous day in that it was neutral Falco mostly whupping me, but I couldn't get into gear for some reason. I also think he thought about how I played overnight and wanted to test out his ideas. I feel like my mentality was pretty poor this day as well and I didn't let those friendlies get to me. This was good because I didn't get emo, but it was bad because I didn't get salty and try to fight back really and **** everyone to get to him in bracket. I just....was annoyed. It was a really confusing and lame feeling. Maybe I'll try embracing more emotion in my play or I'll just play every match of Melee very seriously from now on to where emotion won't be needed for good play, I'm not sure. This is something I'll start to work on soon.

Mango wanted to friendly me again before he played teams finals but I was in a goofy Marth ditto rotation with Tec0, Niko, and Reno(lol) and he got pissed when I told him I didn't want to get tired again. Those friendlies(in combination with my friendlies with DoH and Darrell that gave me much needed experience vs their respective characters) did make me want to play pretty well though, and that may have been what caused me to play better vs Jman or something, I don't really remember when they happened. I just know I felt good about Melee after that.


Playing everyone in bracket was disappointing for me. I didn't go in fired up and felt like I was forcing all of my plays. The only exception to this feeling was when I played Mango the last 2 games of GFs. Far too late then obviously.

vs M2K both times I guess, I was surprised he planked me. I could have taken the edge by doing that waveshield thing I talk about all of the time, but I just didn't. I don't even know why. I killed him once for taking the edge and for getting him to up-B onto the stage several times I got hits or kills. I wasn't mad he was doing it(until the car ride home somehow), but it didn't make me nervous either. I just....was there. I don't know. I did feel like I finally wanted to go in there and **** when I played M2K last game of LFs and that's when he innovated that quit out he did.


vs Jman, I sort of recognized what was wrong with my mindset and fired myself up, telling myself how fun it was to combo Fox and how I ***** Mango's Fox so this should be really fun. I even made a point to aggro Jman on FD so no one could say I camped him(it was my reasoning and I remember thinking it before I fair'd him out of his attempt to come out of shield). Then I saw him talking to his NY buddies and knew I was about to get platform camped. Sure enough, BF and he starts running away. I got bored and didn't try to figure him out. This isn't even like me but my mindset was so bad I just didn't really try much. Then he got the lead and I got annoyed and said okay I'll Uair his Nair he keeps doing over and over to shut up NY and I comboed him for it because their yelling isn't fun to listen to when it's against you.


against Mango he picked red, I thought he wasn't trying, so I didn't take it seriously. apparently he was trying sort of which he told me in GFs after I won the game I won and I got really serious but it was far too late then. whatever.

then I came out putting all of my tricks I SHOULD HAVE BEEN USING ALL ALONG BUT DIDN'T BECAUSE I'M STUPID in game 4 and got a 2 stock lead and Mango had to play very serious to not get *****(like better than red Falco I don't care if you disagree) and I still should have killed him after that stupid side B at the end but I wanted to uptilt combo and somehow messed that up because I'm dumb and then he bair'd me.



I know this is the least professional write up I've ever done but I'm very frustrated so this is what it is.
 

trahhSTEEZY

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haven't read it all but "The dittos were pretty intense initially. He was going neutral Falco(it matters)" really baffled me 0__0 i mean i do personally think that the color of your character (atleast falco for me) influences your play somehow..even if very minimally. it may be a different thing for mango but yeah.
 

Dr Peepee

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He tries certain strategies and generally plays harder with certain colors. Red is worst and blue is best with neutral in the middle.

sorry maybe I didn't mention that
 

trahhSTEEZY

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thats hilariously cute. i see this turning into a trend.

i wasnt even home for rom but i know he played red falco..

ouch. rude :/
 

Dr Peepee

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I didn't want to bring that up because that's what a large part of why I fumed halfway home and didn't want to write it out.

basically I wouldn't put it past him.

I'm dumb
 

trahhSTEEZY

Smash Champion
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Jul 24, 2007
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vegas baby
Mango 2:59 pm
tell him i said
i didnt super try
i just played knowing i would win
so i played whatevers
and it worked
LMAOOO



i wonder how things would've played out if you guys didn't do so many damn friendlies before hand
 

Divinokage

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Lol you definitely aren't dumb, I believe somethings do happen that are outside our control, if you didn't play any friendlies or you did other things differently could've of changed the outcome but that's something we'll never know because there are way to many variables possible, hell even talking to someone else may change how a game is played out. That's life and it's mystery.
 

Battlecow

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<3 pp

Get 'em at Apex, son.

What do you think about you vs. Armada at this point? What do you think about Mango vs. Armada at this point? Which of you is America's best hope against the beast from Sweden?
 
G

genkaku

Guest
Everything I saw and heard from you during tournament told me that you were going to slip up, PP.
I honestly wanted you to lose to m2k without ever getting to face mango 'cause it would have knocked some sense into you and a little bit of the arrogance that was holding you back out of your mentality. You were sleeping on everyone and it was really frustrating to see.
As much as we like competition, I don't think that anyone here is a fan of the PP that thinks he's the best and that he's going to ride through bracket and take out mango just because he's supposedly better. We're fans of the PP that works harder than everyone to get the best results that he can through sheer effort and dedication. The entire appeal of your character is that you were humble and worked your *** off to get to where you are. I admire that, personally. A lot. As soon as you started to drop that attitude and picked up even a semblence of the "ahh, I **** mango" ("planking's not unbeatable, guys" [what were you trying to prove? m2k played great and it was a really fun match to watch. Planking played a relatively minor role before you decided to make it into a big deal. It's sheik being sheik. It's part of the MU. If m2k got on and said "lasers aren't unbeatable, guys" what kind of a sport would that make him look like?]) that frankly you don't deserve yet, you defeated yourself. Imo, you didn't even make it to GFs with mango.
Obviously take what I say with a huge grain of salt. I have a ton of respect for both you and mango. I wanna see you both at your best. Best wishes for apex 2012.
 
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