PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

unknown522 said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6uu55DEQII

Game 1:
- 1:01, when he missed the edgeguard. He did 3 ledge stalls. You were close enough to hit him on the first and 3rd.
- 1:19. On the first stall
- 2:54. On the first stall again. Possibly the 3rd as well, but I may be wrong on that.

Game 2:
- 6:10. You went close, and then retreated.
- 6:12. If you didn't f-tilt.
- 6:59. You moved away again when he let go of the ledge.
- 7:04. Another f-tilt
- 7:28. You could've turned around and SH d-air'd.
- 7:53. Again, if you didn't f-tilt.
- 7:57. vs all those stalls, you could've dropped through the platform and d-aird
- 8:15 - 8:23. More platform chances.
- @ 8:30. I know he came up to attack, but the second time you baited him, you could've immediately SH b-air'd him.
- @ 8:40. same as the previous statement
- @ 8:49. That ledge steal was good.

Game 3:
- @ 10:45. That steal was good too.
- There are a few times in this match where it could've been possible to hit him out of his stall, if you had moved forward, instead of away. I don't think that counts as being in position for it, but I figured that I should still note that to give you ideas and such.
- 13:40. If you didn't fulljump. You were also invincible from the respawn, so the chance of it backfiring was really low.
- further on in the match. There are a lot of stalls you could've beaten if you were facing forward. I'm pretty sure that you were either trying to steal the ledge, or fishing for a b-air so you were facing backwards. So that's understandable.



Additional notes: What you can also do to him, is run up and shield, or crouch at the ledge because M2K waits so long on the edge before making an action (I think it's a habit he picked up from playing brawl), but it's really bad in melee to do that. What this does is, if he does the stall then you can SH d-air oos for the kill, but if he decides to attack or ledge WD, then you can counter attack because he has no invincibility due to waiting for so long (d-air/b-air/n-air/shine oos. What have you).

Another alternative is to laser closer, and you will stuff whatever attack he does from the ledge, and you can combo it into (insert move here). If they try to stay underneath you in fear of the laser, then that's your time to d-air. You can also add empty jumps to try and mess with their head. Especially if they try to avoid getting hit by the laser.

Third alternative: do a quick DJ waveland onto the platform. If they try to stall, or even if they whiff an attack, then you can drop through and d-air. If they come onto the stage with an attack and miss though, I'd much rather do a reverse b-air, cuz you probably won't kill them with a d-air and the won't have their DJ if you hit them off anyway. It's all up to preference at that point, since d-air can still probably get you edge traps anyway.

That stuff is generally harder to do to marth due to his damn sword, and better air mobility. The problem for marth though is that his ledge WD isn't invincible towards the end of the animation so you can hit him anyway.

Vs Sheik, there are some good spacing strategies to cover her options if they wait on the ledge too long, because her air mobility sucks. You can stand a bit outside of her ledge hop f-air range, and still be able to cover most of her options. The only thing to be afraid of is a fast ledge WD. But since he was waiting so long on the ledge a lot of the time, he didn't have that option anymore.


Also, if you want me to do set 2 as well. I'll be glad to when it comes on youtube. ^_^

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1:01- With a SH Dair I guess? That can hit his regrab even spaced so well?

1:19- So I should just react to him staying low since he doesn't like coming up and Dair'ing....ahhhhh so good! That is what you mean right?

2:54- Am I at the optimal spacing about every time to try this? Could he react and punish if he sees me move towards him when he let's go of the edge? Or is that not common because they're usually scared?


6:10- I could have hit him? Wtf he didn't get off of the edge until I moved towards him so I thought I'd get hit.

6:12- That's where I could have stolen it right? Ahh got it.

7:28- Dair? Really? Well I guess my % was low enough it was worth trying....I'm still surprised Dair can hit such a low regrab like that though...

7:57- Got it.

@game 3 tips: duly noted and yeah I'll just try not to move away so much. thanks. =)

I'm taking all the notes down so thanks a ton man too good. That should be all I need to get more ideas, thanks. <3

Blunted_object10 said:

DR PeePee

EDIT: "I don't think that's likely to do in a given tournament match, but I'd love to be proven wrong."

That was to this quote... my bad didn't realize there were posts on the next page =P

I've done it before... but not in tournament match...

I've been known as the multi-shine master! =P

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You should record it. =)

Violence said:

I knew I was in Falcoland when I saw Blunted playing a friendly with Sion. Sion dair's Blunted's shield and shines. Blunted (I think he shield DI'd for good spacing) shines out of shield. The shines clank, and they both end up triple-shine clanking.

Damn birds...

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I had no idea people clanked multishines LOL wtf.

This game is nuts. XD

Divinokage said:

Wtf Falco is OP, you don't need positive things he ***** everyone, faceroll.

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That attitude doesn't further metagame or character development, regardless of what anyone's opinion of Falco is lol.

Also if it was a troll then whatever lol just don't do that in my thread please. <3

Niko45 said:

Yea that's always my problem with State of the Game, there's like one thing I might be interested in among hours of stuff I don't care about and I try to find it but instantly it's not worth the effort.

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I think there's quite a bit of interesting information on SoTG even if you're only looking for one part of it, but yeah I suppose parts could be divided up for easier access.



I want to write a big post tonight or tomorrow. I hope I do it because it'll help me improve I think(also I hope it helps others as well haha).

People who are lower level than someone else they play will only see getting gimped and death comboed which isn't fun haha. =p

Just gotta remember everyone is having different experiences with their characters when you see posts like that. It's pretty much how I feel when I see the Marth boards say anything negative about Marth, but if I look at things from their point of view then I see that Marth's metagame technically isn't too hot right now, so I can't totally blame them haha. Just try to think about why someone would be saying what they are when you read something that bothers you next time is all I suggest. =)

Apex Preparation

Zhu asked me in a post a couple weeks ago how I was going to prepare for Apex. While I have one major mindset problem to work out, I think there are a couple other key differences between how I will prepare for Apex as opposed to any other tournament before.

*Keep in mind, this post is partly for my benefit as well so I can organize my thoughts and outline a clear plan of action.*



One of my biggest goals I have isn't to get to a level I haven't yet been to, but to one I was previously on, actually. A couple of weeks before RoM4, I actually played at a level of smash far above what I typically play at, for the entire session of play. I didn't need to warm up, I applied pressure within a secure range, mixed up my offense and defense effectively, and was able to totally and completely think through all of my decisions before executing them as well as any situation as it happened, before it happened, and after it happened(essentially remembering the situation for when it came up again). I don't believe the play was PERFECT or anything, but it was me playing true top level Melee in my opinion(my top level Melee, at the least).

I can sometimes play like that, but only for very short bursts of time, maybe a stock or two. This is an extremely embarrassing situation by the way, because I allowed myself to get complacent(thinking my play would just remain at that level) instead of turn that play into instinct up until RoM4. So, yes, it is entirely my fault I did not maintain this level of play. Rather than dwell on how I messed up though, I'd rather focus on how to permanently achieve such solid performance again as soon as possible.

As far as I know, the conditions I was under when I first played really well were:

-slept well

-had new ideas to test

-positive attitude(aka happy I suppose)

-not worried about losing, just learning

-didn't care about the matchup, just playing

some of these things are easier to fix than others.




Sleep: I've been doing VERY well maintaining a more effective sleep schedule despite the exam season going on, getting about 8-10 hours of sleep almost every night(except for tourney nights <.<). I think this one is taken care of.


New Ideas: This is much harder to just do, but it is obviously crucial if I want to continue to be an improving player, so I have no reason to whine about it. Thing is I wanted to test out aggressive play and more general overarching concepts, so I'll have to get more general and broad than I'm used to with my smash innovation in order to make this work(a very good exercise for me though....it could allow me to be more versatile in my thinking and thereby a more solid thinker and player).


Positive Attitude: Probably one of the tougher issues to work out right now. While I'm not being negative, I'm not necessarily super happy about playing Melee. Viewing it as a chore or some super serious play to win training session makes it much harder to be happy, but maybe I just need to remember to be serious while still enjoying myself, to myself(so as not to influence the atmosphere of the training).


Not Worried About Losing: This problem, I've begun to notice, is the biggest killer of mentalities that any fighting game player could have. It seems the most universal anyway. I could write a lot about this concept alone(considered doing a big post on it....maybe I will later) because balancing between concern over losing with being too disinterested to apply yourself(the other side of the spectrum I am aggravatingly on more now) is a very difficult one to maintain. I worked on it some today and it takes some tweaking but I'm pretty good at handling losing now and don't feel much pressure if I'm about to lose. Making sure I'm still motivated enough to win is the off and on thing I have to wrestle with. I think I just need to force myself to remember to play hard often, especially when I'm in danger of losing a match. That's all I have at the moment, but I can't imagine how keeping the need to play hard in mind often shouldn't at least motivate me somewhat.


Don't Care About the Matchup: Sometimes I get bothered when people play low tiers or things that aren't their main against me. I really shouldn't care and treat it all as good Melee practice(and if I **** them then they switch back to their main anyway). I know how to handle this one(just think the thing I already said in parenthesis as well as ignore it and appreciate the matchup experience), it's just a matter of consistently doing it.



I'm hoping I just get fired up again, honestly. I really want to see where how far my potential takes me. I think I can figure it out though, if not before Apex then before the next major. I'm just going to push as hard as I can before Apex though because I really would like to win it haha.






Also, Falco dittos. They've always been a thorn in my side throughout my smash career because of how I used to play and it being my least played matchup vs the top tiers. It does feel perfectly fitting though that my final obstacle to be the best player(in my mind) lies in conquering that matchup. I plan on buckling down on that matchup as hard as I possibly can so that I can be prepared for Mango.

There will be a few ways I try to tackle this matchup:

-Videos. Perspectives other than mine can teach me a ton about anything, including Melee and Falco dittos obviously. If I'm not watching Shiz or Zhu or Sion or Chops or whoever playing, then it is safe to say I'll be absorbing as much material as I can from my sets with Mango at RoM4. Taking apart every decision, every general idea of how to play the matchup(rushdown, fast and slow, laser-heavy vs more movement without lasers, etc) will need to be noted.


-Re-working my own personal vs Falco strategy. This will be supplemented by videos of course, but I will need to break down everything about Falco in order to understand how to approach the ditto. A ditto, to me, exposes the weaknesses of a character as well as bolsters its strengths. Falco dittos are interesting for a Falco player because Falco is used to having control with lasers, and the opponent gets the exact same lasers to use against him. Control is no longer assumed but a hard-earned goal that drastically makes the matchup easier for the Falco who won the control skirmish. It's obviously a more lengthy and complicated matchup than that, but it's a good place to start working on my ideas from.


-Testing. Testing hitboxes, testing laser counter strategies, testing every move vs every move in every situation if I can, and playing it vs Twitch/NC Falcos whenever possible. This one is pretty straightforward but a little harder to do logistically on some parts(Twitch hates playing as Falco/isn't too phenomenal with him and the NC Falcos are at least 2.5 hours from me). I don't plan on letting that get in my way though, and I'll just have to make the most of every session I get.




Now, this is all not to say I'm not sleeping on any of the other powerhouses attending this event, namely Armada, but I feel my bigger weaknesses were outlined previously. I still plan on watching videos of the other high level players, formulating new strategies and tricks to help me out whenever and however I can for each matchup and player so that no holes are left in my complete game plan for when January 6th rolls around. In fact, I have DoH, a Peach main, staying with me for a couple days the weekend before Apex in order to prepare for Armada.




Well, that's all I can think of on Apex preparation for now. I think I covered everything I want to cover, and I hope it benefits anyone wanting to prepare for a tournament or struggling with personal weaknesses as well! =)