adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
You mean three roleblockers total? Or do you suspect asdioh?
It would be a neat explanation, but I doubt it.
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Britches and Hose Mafia - Game Over!
- Thread starter Gova
- Start date
It would be a neat explanation, but I doubt it.
Kantrip
Kantplay
Not really. Everything's really ridiculous right now and a lot of scumteams seem possible out of the adum/Swiss/July/John/Asdioh pool. If we could confirm my sanity with this lynch (Swiss or adum) that would be lovely. If we could confirm night actions with this lynch (Swiss or adum) that would be great. If we could get to the bottom of this roleblock mystery (Asdioh or Swiss) that would be excellent.
Kantrip
Kantplay
What about when that's only one person's reasoning and you're acting like that's what the wagon exists for. Getting cold feet, Asdioh?
You always accepted two town RB's as acceptable and you never doubted Swiss's claim. Why? How does town RBing Sokr make sense?
You always accepted two town RB's as acceptable and you never doubted Swiss's claim. Why? How does town RBing Sokr make sense?
I'm saying I'm uncomfortable about Adum, not the Swiss lynch.
I'm not sure why he would RB Sokr. He never actually explained his reasoning for either of his night actions. I remember Adum saying that it made no sense for Swiss as mafia to target Sokr, and part of his reasoning for that was that I guess Swiss thought Sokr was scummy on D1? I should go back and look at that specifically.
I'm not sure why he would RB Sokr. He never actually explained his reasoning for either of his night actions. I remember Adum saying that it made no sense for Swiss as mafia to target Sokr, and part of his reasoning for that was that I guess Swiss thought Sokr was scummy on D1? I should go back and look at that specifically.
Kantrip
Kantplay
You should. Hey so if Swiss is scum who is hit mate, SDO?
I'm not so sure about this anymore. Notice that Swiss claimed his N2 visit to RR only after Adum had claimed to track July.
I don't even know, I'm going to bed. Kantrip, depending on who we lynch toDay and what they flip, who do you think I should roleblock?
Kantrip
Kantplay
I think you should roleblock scum.
We can even get adum to verify.
Assuming we lynch Swiss.
We can even get adum to verify.
Assuming we lynch Swiss.
Swiss
Smash Lord
Right, I missed my stop on the train so have no time.
I can prove I'm RB'er.
Kantrip - I blocked Sokr as I thought he was a Reyth (esp. indie), even Adum was giving reasons as to why this was a townie move earlier, did he not? This game has too many unknowns for you to follow pure mechanics, factor in your reads as well.
We are not lynching anyone other than Adum. He is depserate and his entire case on me stems not from me acting scummy, or him spotting any scum motivation, but it ALL stems from "lol 2 rb'ERS IS IMPOSSIBLE"
Town lost a game not too long ago because we lynched an Indie, and assumed there could not be another. There was. (Vanz endgamed us as scum as it happened). ANY SET UP IS POSSIBLE if it is balanced.
More RB'ers tends the game towards less night action or 'random' - with the partial flips, this makes sense. We do not know what PR's scum have , so why is he so quick to say what PR's town can't have?
I can prove I'm RB'er.
Kantrip - I blocked Sokr as I thought he was a Reyth (esp. indie), even Adum was giving reasons as to why this was a townie move earlier, did he not? This game has too many unknowns for you to follow pure mechanics, factor in your reads as well.
We are not lynching anyone other than Adum. He is depserate and his entire case on me stems not from me acting scummy, or him spotting any scum motivation, but it ALL stems from "lol 2 rb'ERS IS IMPOSSIBLE"
Town lost a game not too long ago because we lynched an Indie, and assumed there could not be another. There was. (Vanz endgamed us as scum as it happened). ANY SET UP IS POSSIBLE if it is balanced.
More RB'ers tends the game towards less night action or 'random' - with the partial flips, this makes sense. We do not know what PR's scum have , so why is he so quick to say what PR's town can't have?
Swiss
Smash Lord
Actually amazed at what Adum pulle on you guys while I was asleep. Even the tone of Kant saying "why is Swiss not responding" showed open hostility - it's fkin 3 in the morning for me when you guys post. Be more reasonable.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
And where's the buffer for the two almost automatic lynches that would come out of this?
You accept the validity of counterclaims in every other setup, why not this one? And this setup further discourages it, why then do you not accept it here?
You're desperate and trying to buy time.
Swiss
Smash Lord
That actually doesn't make any sense, can you re-word? I have no idea what point you're trying to make.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
2 of a role = 2 deaths pretty much guaranteed.
You have never rejected the validity of cc'ing before, why are you rejecting it now?
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Also, you owe kantrip an answer.
Kantrip
Kantplay
Swiss if adum flips town where do you look?
Also yeah what adum said.
Also yeah what adum said.
Kantrip
Kantplay
Sure, good idea Asdioh! Sounds like rhe perfect resolution.
Oh hey Kantrip how about that blatant roleblocker crumb
Oh doublehey Kantrip you actually posted while I was rereading. I'm kind of joking about John, but I mentioned earlygame that I didn't want a question mark to be around lategame, and of course he still is, as in every mafia game.
Maybe we shouldn't lynch him toDay, but definitely definitely consider vigging him toNight, regardless of who we lynch and what they flip. Unless we lynch scum toDay and somebody can convince me there's no way John can be that player's scummate. Except nobody can, so strongly consider vigging him.
This is really pissing me off because I'm rereading, paying attention to Adum and Swiss, but it's so easy to see them as town. John, on the other hand, doesn't have a single townie post aside from him AtEing when I suggested that maybe he was just a newbie/didn't like replacing. He clearly hasn't taken stances, is afraid to put himself out there, won't respond to current events unless forced, and is just scumming his way through the game in much the same way RR did. -_-
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Or we could lynch swiss and nk john.
This roleblockers thing needs to get resolved before lylo.
I explained why it's absolute bull**** over and over, if you're gonna accept that two town roleblockers is possible in this game you might as well just accept that you won't be able to ever get any firm answers from him because he'll just invent some other stupid unsupported possibility and you'll never be able to tell the difference.
If I'm wrong, well feel free to lynch me, but this needs to be resolved.
This roleblockers thing needs to get resolved before lylo.
I explained why it's absolute bull**** over and over, if you're gonna accept that two town roleblockers is possible in this game you might as well just accept that you won't be able to ever get any firm answers from him because he'll just invent some other stupid unsupported possibility and you'll never be able to tell the difference.
If I'm wrong, well feel free to lynch me, but this needs to be resolved.
Reread from Kantrip's "gambit" here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=13718178#post13718178
Swiss and Adum sure found each other townie during that time.
@Swiss and Adum: is there any chance that you're both town and that things went horribly wrong somewhere?
Swiss and Adum sure found each other townie during that time.
@Swiss and Adum: is there any chance that you're both town and that things went horribly wrong somewhere?
Kantrip
Kantplay
Roleblocker crumb yes. Town roleblocker crumb? No.
You missed the sarcasm in my response. Bleck at your suggestion that we vig with the risk of a redirector. Unless of course you know scum has no redirector to worry about.
Swiss, good answer about why you targeted Sokr. At this point, I can actually see where adum is coming from with his indySwiss read.
Do you two really think each other are scum, playwise? What say you to lynching Asdioh? I want your thoughts on this, I'm not necessarily advocating it yet.
Or is the consensus that one of the two of you dies?
Kantrip
Kantplay
Hey adum, what I did wasn't a ludi was it?
Swiss
Smash Lord
Up until toDay, I thought Adum was ton. His play, his crumbs, the way he played tracker - all fell into place for me. But after toDay, and the way we've been at each other - there is no resolution other than the death of one of us. To my mind, he might has well have claimed scum to me. And I'm sure he'll say exactly the same.
Asdioh lynch is not happening. He's too relaxed, too OK with everything, and doesn't even feel the need to make a specific push.
Look, I'm really hungover, and pretty sure I'm still drunk. Adum is saying two RB'ers is utterly ridiculous because of balance (then starts saying CC Validity - which isn't even a real term) - it's just not true. Look at the facts, we KNOW there have to be at least 2 RB'ers in the game (assuming Asdioh town) and we KNOW I'm willing to prove I'm also a RB. wtf.
And Adum, in response to your remarkably snide posts, even though I know you're scum; I CAN PROVE I AM A RB'ER.
Kantrip, I targeted Sokr as to my mind he was likely indie. And at that point I believe I still thought it possible he was a fake account. He really reminded me of Reyth. Too much.
Went to quote, and I still have a few extra quotes from last night. Guess I might as well say what I think of them. I quoted a few of Adum's quotes looking specifically at his intent at the time
Overall, his response to the 'guilty' was decent, except for the fact that when talking to Swiss in their code, he tried to convince him that the fact that he was a tracker meant he was a guaranteed town tracker.
I also still don't understand his concept of "Swiss wouldn't target Sokr unless it was for a kill if he was mafia."
he was even viewing last night and didn't post >=((((((((
Does that make sense? All I know is that Sword was roleblocked, which screams mafia jailor/roleblocker to me, and it's more likely than bus driver. I have no idea why scum would want to bus drive Sokr and Sword.
But yeah, I still want John vigged. I already suggested that Sokr could choose to protect or vig whoever he wanted, and I said who I wanted specifically. It's up to him to choose, and not let scum know what it will be. If he somehow gets redirected, at least we'll know there was a redirector.
I'm frustrated by the fact that Swiss and Adum both said "lynch me toMorrow if the other flips town." That's just begging for us to lose if you are both somehow town.
From the get go, he makes it clear he thinks there is no cop. This coincides with his town tracker claim, which means he really is town, or he had planned to claim tracker from the beginning. Either way, it's a pretty legitimate response now that I know his claim.
This post, however, is scummy AtE.
Sticking to his concept of tracker+cop being overpowered. Trying to convince Kantrip to stop the gambit if he's gambiting.
Overall, his response to the 'guilty' was decent, except for the fact that when talking to Swiss in their code, he tried to convince him that the fact that he was a tracker meant he was a guaranteed town tracker.
I also still don't understand his concept of "Swiss wouldn't target Sokr unless it was for a kill if he was mafia."
quoted these because he's SCUM
he was even viewing last night and didn't post >=((((((((
No I didn't, how could anyone?
When has there ever been any evidence of a redirector? The only way there could be a redirecting role is if Adum is mafia tracker, and tracked Swiss. He saw Swiss visit Sword, but he knew that Sword and Sokr had been bussed, so he said Swiss visited Sokr. Otherwise, if they had a redirector, he wouldn't have known Swiss' original target.
Does that make sense? All I know is that Sword was roleblocked, which screams mafia jailor/roleblocker to me, and it's more likely than bus driver. I have no idea why scum would want to bus drive Sokr and Sword.
But yeah, I still want John vigged. I already suggested that Sokr could choose to protect or vig whoever he wanted, and I said who I wanted specifically. It's up to him to choose, and not let scum know what it will be. If he somehow gets redirected, at least we'll know there was a redirector.
Time to lose weight, adum :/
I hope you don't intend to prove your role by blocking someone like Kantrip, btw.
I'm frustrated by the fact that Swiss and Adum both said "lynch me toMorrow if the other flips town." That's just begging for us to lose if you are both somehow town.
July
Smash Apprentice
Sorry for not being here, it's reading days and its stressful and finals are coming up so obviously I've been drunk as hell studying.
If Adum scum =/= Swiss scum, that means one Night Kantrip results must have gotten messed with. If there is a redirector, then Night actions would have to look like this: Swiss was redirected to Swords N1, Kantrip was redirected to scum N2 and got a result back from that person instead of Swiss. Asdioh, you mentioned our D.Gray night actions, I don't remember specifics of how your and JTB/Gheb's roles worked but I feel like it was something like this, right? Anyways...its a possibility.
Either way, at this point I pretty much don't see a scumteam option that DOESN'T include Adum.
Vote: Adumbrodeus
Kk, if Adum flips scum though, how will both of you account for Kantrip's gunsmith results?
I've actually been thinking about this, because I see a lot of people saying that Adum scum =/= Swiss scum which based on interactions I can see, but Kantrip's gunsmith results bug the hell out of me. Furthermore, John has been useless thus far and last time I posted and asked John for his input and he has not responded, on top of all the scummy posts from early :-/
If Adum scum =/= Swiss scum, that means one Night Kantrip results must have gotten messed with. If there is a redirector, then Night actions would have to look like this: Swiss was redirected to Swords N1, Kantrip was redirected to scum N2 and got a result back from that person instead of Swiss. Asdioh, you mentioned our D.Gray night actions, I don't remember specifics of how your and JTB/Gheb's roles worked but I feel like it was something like this, right? Anyways...its a possibility.
QFT, we need a lynch that provides some clarity about Night actions.
Wow...that explanation makes a hell of a lot of sense. Uggh the terrible thing is I'm starting to see clear pro-town intent from both Asdioh and Swiss. So that leaves Adum/John, based on reads and disregarding stupid ****ing Night action issues.
Either way, at this point I pretty much don't see a scumteam option that DOESN'T include Adum.
Vote: Adumbrodeus
There was a mafia puppeteer in D.gray man. It basically let you take control of a player's Night actions. The only catch was that the player had to be voting for the same person as you going into the Night.
We used it to redirect the cop onto himself, thus clearing me. Then we used it to force him to have no result. It was like a redirector+roleblocker combined, and was pretty powerful.
I was just throwing out the possibility that something like that was used on me, but it's unlikely.
We used it to redirect the cop onto himself, thus clearing me. Then we used it to force him to have no result. It was like a redirector+roleblocker combined, and was pretty powerful.
I was just throwing out the possibility that something like that was used on me, but it's unlikely.
July
Smash Apprentice
July
Smash Apprentice
Kk, well its one more thing to consider I guess. Asdioh, thoughts on Kantrip's gunsmith results and how we deal with them if Adum flips scum?
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Asdioh, have you not seen me get pissed at simple bad play before? I'm sure Kantrip remembers newbie 14.
Suffice it to say that I didn't realize he was just gambiting for reads at that point, I had to reread to understand. The thought had crossed my mind that he was a townie that was so convinced I was scum that he was gonna claim a guilty on me and have me lynched on it.
Ok, let me ask you this, if I wasn't a town tracker how would I know that there wasn't a cop?asdioh said:
I know it's a broken combination as town, but being a mafia tracker would not affect this.
Asdioh, think about your mafia roles for a second. Please. Which mafia roles beyond killing roles would have an incentive to target asdioh ahead of well... anybody else in the game?
Also let me ask you this, as mafia what would be my incentive to chose to lynch swiss over you? Heck, it would be easy to make a case on you.
The point is you're accepting tons of stupid assertions, just because of swiss' say so, with no evidence. Remember the redirector would have another night action last night.
There's the double town roleblockers. There's a redirector. Why do you accept this when the redirector is an obvious deus ex machina that only exists as a concept because swiss needs it to?
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Seriously people, read this sh*t! Right here he pretty much admits that he's sure I'm scum because of the way I'm pushing him, but he never explained why my case is scummy.
I've always been a mechanics oriented person (as I'm sure kantrip will substantiate due to newbie 14 where I was town), why am I not merely wrong?
Because I'm inconvenient.
Lies, my assertion wasn't that there aren't 2 roleblockers. My assertion was that there aren't 2 town roleblockers. If you prove that you're a roleblocker you merely make it obvious you're a scum roleblocker of some stripe.
Remarkly snide? You have been in other games with me you know, getting pissed when people are being idiots is par for the course for me.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Investigative roles are told who they scan regardless of redirection.
How does it make sense at all?
It's not like I wasn't up front about the fact that the scummyness from swiss was because he was claiming that two town roleblockers was a legitimate possibility, which he knew better then to do and his only incentive to do so was to avoid a 1v1 with asdioh until he was able to fulfill his wincon.
Yes it's possible to balance anything in a setup, but we simply do not have anything to balance against the two lynches it would cause (unless we're claiming that RR was the only mafia...). Think about it, the only reason we're even remotely considering this is because it's swiss, if it was anyone else would you believe it?
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Care to explain why it doesn't make any sense?
Swiss
Smash Lord
Vomiting and worse. Feel like death.
AFK 24 hrs havn't read thread
AFK 24 hrs havn't read thread
July
Smash Apprentice
@Kantrip: When you received your investigative results, was the name of your target affirmed?
It makes sense that he would target Sokr thinking he was like Reyth in TT mafia. It's not just because he's Swiss, I'm trying to piece everything together and make sense of the night actions as best I can when there are so many uncertainties.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
I'm talking about his assertions about there being double town roleblockers, not his reason for targeting.