Pi
Smash Hero
Top 3.141592614159265 control ask me anything I am now the best samus in FL next to Plup
-
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Samus advice
- Thread starter Pi
- Start date
-Philip Coast Philip-
Smash Ace
my advice: pick a dif char
also why is plup better than you
also why is plup better than you
also you just copied the pi numbers twice you **
Pi
Smash Hero
plup is so good
also i take no responsibility for the OP
-actual pi
also i take no responsibility for the OP
-actual pi
-Philip Coast Philip-
Smash Ace
Pi
Smash Hero
well i probably am the 2nd best in FL but i'm still leagues behind plup lol
mcninja, i'm assuming you mean tech skill like...fox being able to nair shine, and wavedash out of shine, and stuff like that?
in that case...let me think...
• jab cancels - basically you can cancel the window for your second jab (the canon arm swing) by crouching, or walking (i think walking works...i think). example vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orIRuYN6hP8#t=2m59s afaik plup uses the jab, crouch, jab method. the other popular one is there is a specific angle that you can acheive w/ the joystick to allow for easy jab cancels, let's say you're facing east, i think the angle is just above the 45 degree south west, holding this should allow you to do your first jab much faster than just jab, wait, jab. if you miss the angle then you'll either crouch and then Dtilt, or ftilt west. something to note about this technique, you're goal is not to hit them with a jab, it's to get them to do something stupid either out of shield, or after getting hit by the jab. in the example vid, plup jabs him and he doesn't know what to do, he drops shield to wavedash or jump, idk, gets caught by a jab, and then plup dsmashes him while he's flustered. some other popular options out of this are to roll, spot dodge then CC, or shield drop cc ur jab punish, and some others. basically while ur jabbing ur anticipating what they might do and readying yourself to punish it. if they get hit by the jab, how are they going to react? can u do as plup did and dsmash? or are they gonna shield it again right away so maybe u should grab.
• missile cancelling on all the stages, yoshi's and stadium you only need to short hop, but for battle field and dreamland you need to jump, then double jump quickly after that. you can either tap the jump button quickly, or you can button slide like i do (slide my finger accross y then x, akward at first but to me it's normal now), or you can use maybe the joystick then a jump button or vise versa. they all work, and they all have their flaws, main thing is to pick one and stick to it, don't be switching around or doubting that you can be consistent with a certain method, they will all work.
•pivots are quite good, pivot fsmash/ftilt (i haven't been able to get consistent with Ftilt to the point of using it on command, but usually when i pivot either ftilt or fsmash comes out).
•UB OoS, and subsequentially learning the shieldhitstun for every attack in the game, it sounds daunting but only a few do you need to be really specific on. basically you do not want to mess this up, or not be able to do it on command every single time. basic samus stuff you should not mess up on. also, UBing when you UB, attempt to ledge cancel it EVERY TIME while you're learning it, there are instances where it's better to fast fall and land, but in the vast majority of matchups ledge cancelling it is boss.
••also in this category is wavedashing OoS, samus has a good long wavedash, make sure you can do it as long as possible out of shield, as well as being able to control the distance you wavedash
•sweet spotting your UB is also pretty important, i'm pretty sure you can sweet spot under marths fsmash and dtilt, so learn this. to practice you can go to training mode and lay a proximity mine on the very very edge of the stage, (but actually horizontally on the stage, not vertically on the edge), get it as far over as u can, personally i will roll toward the edge, jump straight up, then drop it down, that should get it as close as u need. from here just practice sweet spotting with your UB, as well as getting into the habit of holding toward the stage, and pressing R/L to tech at the right time. if you sweet spot you should not get hit, if you don't, then your automatic smash di + proper R/L timing should cause you to edge tech.
as a whole though, you need to not mess up, with whatever you decide to do. that is the most important part, and that defines good tech skill. you would rather be the fox who can nair shine his opponents accross the stage 100% of the time than the fox who can multishine ~ 10 times in a row on a good day but messes up simple bread and butter combo's because he spent his time practicing multishining.
also, refine your edgeguards, uptilt is great, it has a very low reach, i saw you were using bombs, i went through a bomb phase and still use them for sure, though a little different than you, but honestly you can get consistent with utilts to the point where the bomb actually prevents edgeguards some times (ie, the utilt hits, then the bomb hits, and u can't follow up)
so i would advocate using down angled ftilt, fsmash, and utilt to edgeguard almost exclusively instead of bombs, because you can always fall back on bombs they're not hard to lay down where you want them, but learning the timing & spacing for utilting/ftilting a marth sweet spot UB is a lot harder.
some advanced stuff to learn
•aerial interupting, it's quite good
•full hop double missile, situational, but can wreck people who aren't used to it
and keep in mind...just because you can do a technique, doesn't mean you've mastered it. the higher level you get the less mistakes you can afford to make. i've see matches loss because of a failed wavedash, it is a big deal, and ialthough it's tedious and not fun to practice, it's very important that you be consistent with every part of your game
mcninja, i'm assuming you mean tech skill like...fox being able to nair shine, and wavedash out of shine, and stuff like that?
in that case...let me think...
• jab cancels - basically you can cancel the window for your second jab (the canon arm swing) by crouching, or walking (i think walking works...i think). example vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orIRuYN6hP8#t=2m59s afaik plup uses the jab, crouch, jab method. the other popular one is there is a specific angle that you can acheive w/ the joystick to allow for easy jab cancels, let's say you're facing east, i think the angle is just above the 45 degree south west, holding this should allow you to do your first jab much faster than just jab, wait, jab. if you miss the angle then you'll either crouch and then Dtilt, or ftilt west. something to note about this technique, you're goal is not to hit them with a jab, it's to get them to do something stupid either out of shield, or after getting hit by the jab. in the example vid, plup jabs him and he doesn't know what to do, he drops shield to wavedash or jump, idk, gets caught by a jab, and then plup dsmashes him while he's flustered. some other popular options out of this are to roll, spot dodge then CC, or shield drop cc ur jab punish, and some others. basically while ur jabbing ur anticipating what they might do and readying yourself to punish it. if they get hit by the jab, how are they going to react? can u do as plup did and dsmash? or are they gonna shield it again right away so maybe u should grab.
• missile cancelling on all the stages, yoshi's and stadium you only need to short hop, but for battle field and dreamland you need to jump, then double jump quickly after that. you can either tap the jump button quickly, or you can button slide like i do (slide my finger accross y then x, akward at first but to me it's normal now), or you can use maybe the joystick then a jump button or vise versa. they all work, and they all have their flaws, main thing is to pick one and stick to it, don't be switching around or doubting that you can be consistent with a certain method, they will all work.
•pivots are quite good, pivot fsmash/ftilt (i haven't been able to get consistent with Ftilt to the point of using it on command, but usually when i pivot either ftilt or fsmash comes out).
•UB OoS, and subsequentially learning the shieldhitstun for every attack in the game, it sounds daunting but only a few do you need to be really specific on. basically you do not want to mess this up, or not be able to do it on command every single time. basic samus stuff you should not mess up on. also, UBing when you UB, attempt to ledge cancel it EVERY TIME while you're learning it, there are instances where it's better to fast fall and land, but in the vast majority of matchups ledge cancelling it is boss.
••also in this category is wavedashing OoS, samus has a good long wavedash, make sure you can do it as long as possible out of shield, as well as being able to control the distance you wavedash
•sweet spotting your UB is also pretty important, i'm pretty sure you can sweet spot under marths fsmash and dtilt, so learn this. to practice you can go to training mode and lay a proximity mine on the very very edge of the stage, (but actually horizontally on the stage, not vertically on the edge), get it as far over as u can, personally i will roll toward the edge, jump straight up, then drop it down, that should get it as close as u need. from here just practice sweet spotting with your UB, as well as getting into the habit of holding toward the stage, and pressing R/L to tech at the right time. if you sweet spot you should not get hit, if you don't, then your automatic smash di + proper R/L timing should cause you to edge tech.
as a whole though, you need to not mess up, with whatever you decide to do. that is the most important part, and that defines good tech skill. you would rather be the fox who can nair shine his opponents accross the stage 100% of the time than the fox who can multishine ~ 10 times in a row on a good day but messes up simple bread and butter combo's because he spent his time practicing multishining.
also, refine your edgeguards, uptilt is great, it has a very low reach, i saw you were using bombs, i went through a bomb phase and still use them for sure, though a little different than you, but honestly you can get consistent with utilts to the point where the bomb actually prevents edgeguards some times (ie, the utilt hits, then the bomb hits, and u can't follow up)
so i would advocate using down angled ftilt, fsmash, and utilt to edgeguard almost exclusively instead of bombs, because you can always fall back on bombs they're not hard to lay down where you want them, but learning the timing & spacing for utilting/ftilting a marth sweet spot UB is a lot harder.
some advanced stuff to learn
•aerial interupting, it's quite good
•full hop double missile, situational, but can wreck people who aren't used to it
and keep in mind...just because you can do a technique, doesn't mean you've mastered it. the higher level you get the less mistakes you can afford to make. i've see matches loss because of a failed wavedash, it is a big deal, and ialthough it's tedious and not fun to practice, it's very important that you be consistent with every part of your game
Pi
Smash Hero
most characters -can- but most of them aren't true, samus included. i jab reset often, but if the opponent buffers somethhing then they don't just get up normally
Pi
Smash Hero
i'm still on the fence of if i want this to be a legit thread or not lol
pcp i'll do a write up of why plup is better than me tonight, and i'll get him to share some insight too
pcp i'll do a write up of why plup is better than me tonight, and i'll get him to share some insight too
-Philip Coast Philip-
Smash Ace
lol it's cool if you want... i don't really need to know. others, probably, and the exercise wouldn't be a bad idea (or whatev). i mean, i'd appreciate anything you said, though. you say cool stuff. pi-numbers.
Pi
Smash Hero
here's some ways plup is better than me currently
1) is able to adapt and execute his adaptations quicker than i am
--i'm not sure he knows 'more' counters than i do, but he is definately able to perform them faster than i can, even if i think of them, i may have some habits that are strongly ingrained that i need to fix before i'm able to adapt that fast
2) he has a more refined playstyle than i do, he doesn't do a lot of unnecessary stuff, his movements are more refined and polished than mine are, and he makes less mistakes, this could be due to him moving around in simpler/less ways than i do perhaps? or just putting himself in the positions he needs to get too ahead of time to avoid having to make last minute split second decisons, though he does make those as well, which are also more refined than mine
3) i think he is used to more situations than i am, and has no qualms about doing the thing u need to do to win, this sounds simple but i struggle with it.
1) is able to adapt and execute his adaptations quicker than i am
--i'm not sure he knows 'more' counters than i do, but he is definately able to perform them faster than i can, even if i think of them, i may have some habits that are strongly ingrained that i need to fix before i'm able to adapt that fast
2) he has a more refined playstyle than i do, he doesn't do a lot of unnecessary stuff, his movements are more refined and polished than mine are, and he makes less mistakes, this could be due to him moving around in simpler/less ways than i do perhaps? or just putting himself in the positions he needs to get too ahead of time to avoid having to make last minute split second decisons, though he does make those as well, which are also more refined than mine
3) i think he is used to more situations than i am, and has no qualms about doing the thing u need to do to win, this sounds simple but i struggle with it.
Smashjin
Smash Ace
This thread pleasantly surprised me.
It made me realize what I still need to work on.
It made me realize what I still need to work on.
abcool
Smash Ace
I won the tourney on Sunday. All the hard hitters didn't show up, but i still had to deal with a pretty high level peach by my region standards, so that was kinda tough. Since it's officially the holidays all the hard hitters are here, so maybe i can get better practice. Thanks regardless Pi/3/swd for giving me advice before that day. My way to keep calm is to picture duck Samus(for some strange reason) in my mind when i fight peaches, Plup when i fight foxes and Pi when i fight sheiks.
Advice i need! Teach me about good situations and bad situations. I hear those terms thrown around alot and i have a bad time understanding it fully. Also give examples of how Hugs/Plup and yourself can get out of them..(Nothing offstage cause that is the part i understand already)
Advice i need! Teach me about good situations and bad situations. I hear those terms thrown around alot and i have a bad time understanding it fully. Also give examples of how Hugs/Plup and yourself can get out of them..(Nothing offstage cause that is the part i understand already)
abcool
Smash Ace
The Peach player hates this matchup cause he has to play boring so after his loser's Finals he forefeited to me.Wow congratulations! I'm proud!
http://youtu.be/5-rWbAv6dVg
In case you didn't see the question Pi (Advice i need! Teach me about good situations and bad situations. I hear those terms thrown around alot and i have a bad time understanding it fully. Also give examples of how Hugs/Plup and yourself can get out of them??????!!!!(Nothing offstage cause that is the part i understand already)
Pi
Smash Hero
ohhh i know that peach haha
any way...good situations vs. bad situations...
honesly this is a concept i've just begun really trying to understand, but the way i'm going about it is this
controlling the middle of the stage
samus is a char that really needs room to move around to excel in a match, her wavedashes and tilts can only be used if she has full range of motion to stay unpredictable. because of this you want to have stage control, or at the very least not be forced to the edge of the stage
this isn't to say that you should always be in the middle of the stage, because i've found in some matches it's ideal to hide under platforms to thwart some characters aerial approach options (falcon)
but you don't want to get yourself trapped near the edge
most players innately seem to understand that when soemone is near the edge it's time to pressure, even if they can't verbalize it, so if you ever find yourself pressured in this situation, do not panic. the key is never to panic. samus has great options to shift momentum in a match. CCing and UBing are great for stopping your opponents aggressive pressure and taking back control
so if you ever find yourself being pressured near the ledge, or in any situation ur not comfortable in, look for CC's or UB's, and reset the match and take back control of mid stage, or take back control of the projectile game. When you UB ideally you want to ledge cancel it, this is very important, fractions of a second can be the difference between you getting knocked back off the stage into a bad spot, or u taking control of mid and leaving ur opponent in a bad spot
alternatively, bad positions to be in are in your shield vs. someone who knows how to apply safe spaced shield pressure that you can't UB and leave you with only the option of rolling (ew) or wavedashing away.
The trick to avoiding those situations is to stay mobile and shield as unpredictably as you can. the only way for your opponent to set up their safe shield pressure is when they know exactly where you're going to shield because you're doing it too often. mix it up, stay mobile, trade with tilts, shield less, crouch cancel, etc. if you find yourself shielding vs. pressure you can't UB...you're probably going to get hit tbh, in this situation i usually shield until i'm risking a poke, then light shield, or try to spot dodge downsmash punish a more laggy attack, or just forfeit the stage control and wavedash away and try to work my way back
and the overal worse position for samus to be in (in most matches) is in the air. do whatever you can do to avoid going in the air, whether it's by your own will or ur opponent trying to put you there.
if ur in the air, you need to pick up on how your opponent is reacting to it, are they super comfortable w/ your fast fall/bomb shenanigans? then don't risk a trade, just get to the edge of the stage and work from there, chances are it's better that way
if they don't seem comfortable juggling you, you can risk bombing in different ways and trying to waveland on a plaform, or hitting htem with a nair
being int he air is bad, samus becomes really one dimensional, especially vs. people who know how to punish her bomb lag
any way...good situations vs. bad situations...
honesly this is a concept i've just begun really trying to understand, but the way i'm going about it is this
controlling the middle of the stage
samus is a char that really needs room to move around to excel in a match, her wavedashes and tilts can only be used if she has full range of motion to stay unpredictable. because of this you want to have stage control, or at the very least not be forced to the edge of the stage
this isn't to say that you should always be in the middle of the stage, because i've found in some matches it's ideal to hide under platforms to thwart some characters aerial approach options (falcon)
but you don't want to get yourself trapped near the edge
most players innately seem to understand that when soemone is near the edge it's time to pressure, even if they can't verbalize it, so if you ever find yourself pressured in this situation, do not panic. the key is never to panic. samus has great options to shift momentum in a match. CCing and UBing are great for stopping your opponents aggressive pressure and taking back control
so if you ever find yourself being pressured near the ledge, or in any situation ur not comfortable in, look for CC's or UB's, and reset the match and take back control of mid stage, or take back control of the projectile game. When you UB ideally you want to ledge cancel it, this is very important, fractions of a second can be the difference between you getting knocked back off the stage into a bad spot, or u taking control of mid and leaving ur opponent in a bad spot
alternatively, bad positions to be in are in your shield vs. someone who knows how to apply safe spaced shield pressure that you can't UB and leave you with only the option of rolling (ew) or wavedashing away.
The trick to avoiding those situations is to stay mobile and shield as unpredictably as you can. the only way for your opponent to set up their safe shield pressure is when they know exactly where you're going to shield because you're doing it too often. mix it up, stay mobile, trade with tilts, shield less, crouch cancel, etc. if you find yourself shielding vs. pressure you can't UB...you're probably going to get hit tbh, in this situation i usually shield until i'm risking a poke, then light shield, or try to spot dodge downsmash punish a more laggy attack, or just forfeit the stage control and wavedash away and try to work my way back
and the overal worse position for samus to be in (in most matches) is in the air. do whatever you can do to avoid going in the air, whether it's by your own will or ur opponent trying to put you there.
if ur in the air, you need to pick up on how your opponent is reacting to it, are they super comfortable w/ your fast fall/bomb shenanigans? then don't risk a trade, just get to the edge of the stage and work from there, chances are it's better that way
if they don't seem comfortable juggling you, you can risk bombing in different ways and trying to waveland on a plaform, or hitting htem with a nair
being int he air is bad, samus becomes really one dimensional, especially vs. people who know how to punish her bomb lag
abcool
Smash Ace
I know you guys in Florida know Shounenkel lol. He goes there Once a year i think and he told me all about playing all the different players there. The rest of us aren't into traveling up in now, but if we ever have time we will.
An thanks for the explanation. It really sheds light on some of Samus weaknessess. No one here really knows how to play against her properly, but i still wanna acknowledge her faults in case they do figure her out.
Pluplue
Smash Ace
Standing missiles are just match-up specific. Canceling the missile lag is almost always the best way to go, but characters like marth and ganon don't have the strongest approach when a missile is coming at them, so it's safe for standing missiles. I THINK (though im not positive) standing missiles come out at a faster rate than say full hop fast fall missile, or full hop waveland on platform drop down missile.
Practically all characters can punish the after lag of standing missiles though, so to answer your question more simply: only use standing missiles to space/camp marth and ganon. And I guess roy and ness too, but idgaf about them.
Practically all characters can punish the after lag of standing missiles though, so to answer your question more simply: only use standing missiles to space/camp marth and ganon. And I guess roy and ness too, but idgaf about them.
Vonzar the Soulrender
4th Dimensional Horror
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2008
- Messages
- 819
Dear Pi
teach me how to not suck with Samus
teach me how to not suck with Samus
Pi
Smash Hero
the key is to enjoy trolling
Vonzar the Soulrender
4th Dimensional Horror
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2008
- Messages
- 819
buuuuut IHSB kicks my *** in dittos all the time and he's also a bad instructor.
I do troll most everyone else here with Samus though, it's good times.
I do troll most everyone else here with Samus though, it's good times.
Pi
Smash Hero
samus ditto's are... awkward to say the least lol, especially when you respect the other players samus
very important things to remember:
UB OoS as much as you can
Crouch cancel as much as you can
these are staple in other matchups, but personally i forgot all about them in the samus matchup, they are just as effective or even more in this matchup because samus doesn't really grab
speaking of grab, grab in this matchup too, as samus you'll know that the opposing samus doesn't like to grab, so you can shield a lot
and you'll know that he'll know that you know this, so he might start spot dodging, or jumping
so just punish that, but then he'll know that you know that he knows...wait...
any way...CC and UB OoS
spam missiles if the other guy doesn't want to, and break through his when he starts, the trick in ditto's is to be 1 step ahead of the curve
remember to UB before he does, remember to CC before he does, remember to missile before he does
then this will remind him oh yea i have that too, so he might start to do that, so then counter it
ditto's are really akward, i've never beaten plup in a non-friendly ditto, and even when we friendly i swear he never makes it easy, and i can only manage a game here or there
our samus ditto's are really fun though, take your free damage where you can because you don't outclass the other in any way shape or form other than what goes on in ur head, understand?
also i'll give 5$ to any samus who can beat plup in a ditto MM, real talk
also accepting 5$ samus ditto MM's lol
also i would encourage everyone to play as many ditto's as you can, it's the best way to level up
very important things to remember:
UB OoS as much as you can
Crouch cancel as much as you can
these are staple in other matchups, but personally i forgot all about them in the samus matchup, they are just as effective or even more in this matchup because samus doesn't really grab
speaking of grab, grab in this matchup too, as samus you'll know that the opposing samus doesn't like to grab, so you can shield a lot
and you'll know that he'll know that you know this, so he might start spot dodging, or jumping
so just punish that, but then he'll know that you know that he knows...wait...
any way...CC and UB OoS
spam missiles if the other guy doesn't want to, and break through his when he starts, the trick in ditto's is to be 1 step ahead of the curve
remember to UB before he does, remember to CC before he does, remember to missile before he does
then this will remind him oh yea i have that too, so he might start to do that, so then counter it
ditto's are really akward, i've never beaten plup in a non-friendly ditto, and even when we friendly i swear he never makes it easy, and i can only manage a game here or there
our samus ditto's are really fun though, take your free damage where you can because you don't outclass the other in any way shape or form other than what goes on in ur head, understand?
also i'll give 5$ to any samus who can beat plup in a ditto MM, real talk
also accepting 5$ samus ditto MM's lol
also i would encourage everyone to play as many ditto's as you can, it's the best way to level up
Samus dittos are often times about who attacks 2nd. In other words, who has the most patience.
In other news, I've been watching a lot of Plup and Duck videos lately, it's really nice to have others to really learn from, this luxury didn't exist for a very long time for me.
In other news, I've been watching a lot of Plup and Duck videos lately, it's really nice to have others to really learn from, this luxury didn't exist for a very long time for me.
Pi
Smash Hero
i think that's true for most ditto's hugs, at least in the non super fast pressure chars