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Utah Thread - Dead thread is dead

harpuia190

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
572
are you kidding? Lada is totally owning evertyone in the room, they just don't even know it

BTW how did they do? anyone wanna save mt the trouble of sorting through it all myself and posting the results of the utah guys?
 

Z'zgashi

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BTW how did they do? anyone wanna save mt the trouble of sorting through it all myself and posting the results of the utah guys?
If by they you mean Chris/Kevin/Devon/Jeremiah/RJ, then this is how it went:

Chris - 1st place in 1st pools, 2nd place in 2nd pools, Lost to Nakat then Illmatic to place 49th
Kevin - Took 2nd in first pools, then 4th in 2nd pools.
Devon - Not sure what place he took, but lost in his first pool as well.
Jeremiah - Same as Devon
RJ - Got gayed by the airlines
 

Z'zgashi

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X was the highest placing Sonic, and Lada was the highest placing US ROB (OCEAN the Japanese ROB did better though), get hype?
 

phi1ny3

Not the Mama
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
9,649
Location
in my SCIENCE! lab
Does X seem to be more top-tier centric in the MUs he's good in? I mean I'm sure he gets some good exp. for more eclectic MUs from you guys, but he seemed pretty eh in the Wario and Peach MU at Genesis 2, among others. When he does get a MU he knows though, he's beastly though :p
 

Z'zgashi

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X only knows the Top Tier MUs cuz Yaz, SoCal, and Las Vegas.

Lada beat Polt though, prob cuz he plays me so much :D
 

Ebo!

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
103
Location
New Jersy
Hey just got to salt lake yesterday whats up some smash? and if any of you know someone with a room for rent or anything along those lines let me know i kinda still need a place to live thanks.
 

Ebo!

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
103
Location
New Jersy
is only like 20 away idk i got a few places to check out saturday have a fest saturday i'll come out
 

Z'zgashi

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K GUYS, LISTEN UP, THIS IS ALL IMPORTANT

Ive been slacking the last couple weeks and I need to get this Utah PR panel together. HERE'S THE DEAL. Since the panel had 5-7 people in it and we'd need to have ALL OF THEM at one place at the same, im making a change with that as its very unlikely that every person would be there at once. INSTEAD, Imma completely ditch the whole old panel and start fresh. This new panel will meet once every 2-3 months (unless we have a specific reason to change that) on SKYPE, so you will need that to be a panelist. If you have/get Skype and want to be involved, send me your Skype name via PM and tell me that you're interested in being a panelist. Ill give you all until next Monday to let me know if you are interested, then Ill create a panel out of those interested based on Attendance, Skill, and Involvement in our scene. The 4-6 people I feel best suit these areas will be in the panel. I will also note, that the panelists will have more responsibilities than just being a part of the PR. When it comes to tournaments and events, they will also be the ones who will help run the events, get things organized, and whatever else falls into categories like that.

Now, with that said, the new panel will NEED to meet sometime next week, as there is most likely going to be a tournament on the 21st, and we need a new PR due to the old one being inaccurate, and the fact that MK is now banned, meaning the ruleset has changed pretty drastically. This meeting will happen between Tuesday-Friday, depending on the schedules of the members. Monday night at 8:00pm, I will have the panel members sorted out and send out PMs asking what times are best/will work for them, and I will NEED an answer sometime before noon on Tuesday, so if you requested to be a panelist, MAKE SURE TO CHECK SMASHBOARDS BETWEEN 8PM MONDAY AND NOON ON TUESDAY.

Now, onto a more general note, a few things are going to change with our scene. We need to get more professional with how we do this, so these are some of the changes off the top of my head:
First, we are going to get a lot more organized. We are going to minimize the amount of last minute tournaments and start getting more organizing and planning done in order to allow people to have a schedule and plan ahead, which in return allows for better attendance and less miscommunication.
Second, I in the near future am going to set up a monthly tournament series which will always happen on a static date. This will allow for consistent, and reliable events to happen so that we can spark a rise in activity from our scene.
Third, from now on, I am going to be a hardass and be strict when it comes to how tournaments will be ran. For example, here are things Im going to start cracking down on:
- During a tournament, I will let everyone know when certain TVs are going to be used for the tournament, and when they will be open for friendlies, and will have a way to mark them (colored sticky notes or something) so you can clearly see when they are open and when they are not. If anyone tries to start MMs or friendlies on a Tournament Set Up, they CAN and WILL suffer penalties such as disqualification. I dont want to here any whining or complaining about this either, I dont do ANY friendlies or MMs AT ALL during a tournament, I only get to before and after, so I WILL NOT sympathize with you.
- We will be sticking to a schedule. Through all my TO experience, Ive come to realize just how long it takes to clear rounds in tournaments, so I know about how much time we will need to get things done. I also will NOT allow anyone to enter tournaments late. If you are going to be late for ANY REASON, you must contact me BEFORE THE EVENT HAS STARTED or you WILL NOT be able to enter. Ten Minutes before an event starts, the TVs will start to be cleared. You will be allowed to finish the game currently in progress (matches will need to be finished later, I dont care if its a MM or not), but when it is over, you need to get off.
- DURING EVENTS, MY LAPTOP IS OF LIMITS. If you finished your match, there WILL be someone there to report your match to, you DO NOT have permission to enter in the results yourself.
- We will start preparing the next match for each set up as the match before is going on. This will allow us to get through the bracket and events faster, and will in the end allow people more time for MMs and Friendlies, and will allow people who have a schedule and need to leave later in the night to not have to forfeit matches.
- There will be at least 1 or 2 break periods in the schedule that will last an hour to allow to make food runs, play MMs and Friendlies, etc. These will be scheduled beforehand and, as mentioned before, WE WILL BE STICKING TO THE SCHEDULE.
- When reporting your match, you will need to give the set result (if it was 2-0, 2-1, etc) and give which stages and characters were used each game.
- After your match is called to an open TV, you have a maximum of 5 minutes to be there or you are DQ'd from the entire set. There WILL NOT be any loss of a game on this, you are either there, or are DQ'd. We will be originally calling matches well before they even start, so there should be NO EXCEPTIONS when it comes to being there for your match. If you want to get food, have someone who isnt currently in an event to get it for you, or wait for a break period.
There is probably more, but I'll make a post about the conduct changes and such later next week to clarify everything.

That's all for now, but that's not even a dent in all the things that are going to be done. Im working my BALLS of to try and get our scene more organized and professional this year, and hopefully in a couple months, if it all works out, we should be getting a regular gaming circuit with regular events, sponsors, and possibly even have a regional or something in the works. So thanks to all of you for your commitment to this game and lets hope that this year will be a great year for us smashers. ;)
 

Z'zgashi

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It's more that the Smash Lab came up to the URC and asked us if we'd try and get that info for them, so I said I would. Besides, I plan on having a notpad document open while the tournament is going on, and Ill just basically put in in like this or so:

Zz vs Staz (2-0)
1 - Yoshi v Falco @ SV
2 - Yoshi v Falco @ FO

If it starts becoming hard for me to handle alone, Ill just have someone else help as well.

I dont need to actually right who won down or anything as I can look at the bracket for that. This also will also me to give credit to characters people won with instead of just used, and it lets me know who all the new players I didnt ever remember used without needing to always ask everyone again lol.
 

Steam

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Messages
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Hell, Colorado
I WILL JOIN YOUR PR PANEL

also hi again utah.

colorado thread is boring since everything happens on fb for colorado smash.
 

Ken Neth

Smash Champion
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Aug 22, 2007
Messages
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BYU- Provo, Utah
Hey steam. I'd vote for you if that means anything.

As for the panel, how often and for how long is it going to meet? And getting everyone to every panel discussion is quite a bit harder than you think, even done on the internet. What we used to do was just do the discussions with a minimum of 2/3rds of the panel on MSN, copy the conversation over to those who couldn't make it, and then have everyone vote privately. They used to work quite well.

Anyways, I can be part of the panel if you need me to.

:phone:
 

Z'zgashi

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Thats pretty much exactly what I was thinking about doing lol. And send me your Skype name too.
 

Tsuteto

火事で死ね
Joined
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Sandy, UT
*scratches* I'm all for cracking down on rules and regulations and what not, but I'll even be honest Z'z, you're being a little TOO much of a hardass with some of the rules you've got up there. I'll post my reflections on the troublesome ones with my input later when I'm on lunch.
 

wangston

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
1,660
Location
Provo Utah
The rule about getting dq'd in 5 mins is lame... One time kenneth got dq'd cause he was getting food and there were 10 other matches that could still be played. However I guess with an hour food break it shouldn't be a problem. But if some one went to betos the night before and is pooping their guts out they shouldn't be dq unless there are absolutely no other matches to play and the whole tourney is waiting on that match. but even then a simple text to someone to let them know they are pooping their guts out should be enough to warrant more time.

But dq rules at local tournaments are lame........ I really don't think anyone took advantage of the pasts TOs and wouldn't be late for a match with out good reasons.
 

Jellyfishn

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
387
Location
Utah
*scratches* I'm all for cracking down on rules and regulations and what not, but I'll even be honest Z'z, you're being a little TOO much of a hardass with some of the rules you've got up there. I'll post my reflections on the troublesome ones with my input later when I'm on lunch.
The only thing that is slightly stricter than other tournaments is the rule about being DQ'ed instead of losing a match if you don't show up right away. All the others are what SHOULD happen at a tournament 100% of the time.

Also there's the thing about the stages and character use, but that's just what the smashlab wants.
 

Jellyfishn

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
387
Location
Utah
*scratches* I'm all for cracking down on rules and regulations and what not, but I'll even be honest Z'z, you're being a little TOO much of a hardass with some of the rules you've got up there. I'll post my reflections on the troublesome ones with my input later when I'm on lunch.
The only thing that is slightly stricter than other tournaments is the rule about being DQ'ed instead of losing a match if you don't show up right away. All the others are what SHOULD happen at a tournament 100% of the time.

The DQ rule is a bit strict. Even at Apex Chudat didn't get DQ'ed for being a little late. The commentators were the ones trying to DQ him lol.

Also there's the thing about the stages and character use, but that's just what the smashlab wants.

Edit: WTF double post......I swear I clicked edit. Someone report me!
 

Tsuteto

火事で死ね
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- During a tournament, I will let everyone know when certain TVs are going to be used for the tournament, and when they will be open for friendlies, and will have a way to mark them (colored sticky notes or something) so you can clearly see when they are open and when they are not. If anyone tries to start MMs or friendlies on a Tournament Set Up, they CAN and WILL suffer penalties such as disqualification. I dont want to here any whining or complaining about this either, I dont do ANY friendlies or MMs AT ALL during a tournament, I only get to before and after, so I WILL NOT sympathize with you.
- When reporting your match, you will need to give the set result (if it was 2-0, 2-1, etc) and give which stages and characters were used each game.
- After your match is called to an open TV, you have a maximum of 5 minutes to be there or you are DQ'd from the entire set. There WILL NOT be any loss of a game on this, you are either there, or are DQ'd. We will be originally calling matches well before they even start, so there should be NO EXCEPTIONS when it comes to being there for your match. If you want to get food, have someone who isnt currently in an event to get it for you, or wait for a break period.
1) We're mainly local players, nothing bigger than that. MMs or friendlies really are fine if a TV is free, but they should be prepared to be KICKED off, not suffer penalties IMO. Using the "sticky notes" method, you could have a card that is two colored (red and green, for example). When flipped on red, that means the TV is currently tourney match or to that effect, but when green, it's "open." So, if you, the TO, are looking for a TV to use, and some people are playing on a green TV, you have every right to kick them off. If they complain, THEN penalties could be enforced. That was basically the understanding at the lock-in tourney I did (though things got a little hectic when I was running to my own tournaments and such, and when Steve needed to go to work).

2) More of an opinion, have a method where matches are labeled, and people can hand you a piece of paper with the results breakdown. Yes, builds some after tourney work, but prevents tourney delays. Again, just an opinion.

3) Or, you could follow a DDR format rule. To explain briefly, people are told that they're "on deck". When the match then comes up, the other player has one or two minutes to be there and ready. If they're not, they use up a "pass" chance, meaning they'll just go to the next round that is able to be done. When they come up again, and the same person misses, they forfeit that round, and are moved to the loser's bracket (eliminated if already in the loser's bracket). If they miss AGAIN, they forfeit the match and are thus DQ'd from the tourney.

Those are really the only things I can think of. Also, when it comes to "impromptu" tourneys, I honestly see no harm in them done. They just shouldn't report as a part of the PR rankings, IMO.

Back to work!

@gkirbz: If the community actually grew a pair of balls, there wouldn't be such troubles with the Mexis. Then again, when they do, they get labeled as a ******* as I do by the lesser of the scene. But hey, at least I get my gas money, and really, I don't find myself at odds with any of the Mexis.
 

Z'zgashi

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*scratches* I'm all for cracking down on rules and regulations and what not, but I'll even be honest Z'z, you're being a little TOO much of a hardass with some of the rules you've got up there. I'll post my reflections on the troublesome ones with my input later when I'm on lunch.
Im cracking down cuz people are starting to not take anything seriously anymore.

The rule about getting dq'd in 5 mins is lame... One time kenneth got dq'd cause he was getting food and there were 10 other matches that could still be played. However I guess with an hour food break it shouldn't be a problem. But if some one went to betos the night before and is pooping their guts out they shouldn't be dq unless there are absolutely no other matches to play and the whole tourney is waiting on that match. but even then a simple text to someone to let them know they are pooping their guts out should be enough to warrant more time.
If someone where to be gone and I had a few other matches that could be played, then yeah, Id obviously do the other matches first. But when I specifically tell people well before hand that their match is going to be next (Id be giving them at least a 5 or more minute warning), then after that, give them yet ANOTHER 5 minute warning, they have PLENTY of time and should be there on time.

But dq rules at local tournaments are lame........ I really don't think anyone took advantage of the pasts TOs and wouldn't be late for a match with out good reasons.
You'd be surprised.

The only thing that is slightly stricter than other tournaments is the rule about being DQ'ed instead of losing a match if you don't show up right away. All the others are what SHOULD happen at a tournament 100% of the time.

Also there's the thing about the stages and character use, but that's just what the smashlab wants.
This.

Hello here is a message to brighten our days from our friend gkirbs.

http://www.utahgamingforums.com/t160-zz-****-the-urc#2307

Good day
It's funny cuz the Japanese players said they liked our ruleset more than theirs lol.

1) We're mainly local players, nothing bigger than that.
But are all the other local scenes elsewhere in the US, and guess what? If you went somewhere else like NJ, OH, etc, they rules would be FAR more strict that what Im even changing them to, and they are all local scenes too. Just because Utah was one of the most lenient states before (trust me, Ive held tournament matches for over an hour, Ive allowed people to pay their entry fee well after it even started, Ive allowed people to finish their match, but then they decide 'oh lets play out the whole set' and I STILL let them finish, etc) and im not going to allow any of that anymore at all.

MMs or friendlies really are fine if a TV is free, but they should be prepared to be KICKED off, not suffer penalties IMO. Using the "sticky notes" method, you could have a card that is two colored (red and green, for example). When flipped on red, that means the TV is currently tourney match or to that effect, but when green, it's "open." So, if you, the TO, are looking for a TV to use, and some people are playing on a green TV, you have every right to kick them off. If they complain, THEN penalties could be enforced. That was basically the understanding at the lock-in tourney I did (though things got a little hectic when I was running to my own tournaments and such, and when Steve needed to go to work).
Basically this is how it will work. Lets say there are 4 set ups at the tournament, and we have a 20 person bracket. At the beginning of the tournament, all 4 TVs will need to be used for tournament matches, but as we get further into the tournament, we will have less matches that will need to be going on at a time, so we will start to not need as many set ups. As soon as we reach a point where we wont need all 4 set ups for matches, Ill let everyone know that one of the set ups is now free, and mark it as such. That TV is now a completely free TV, and any friendlies, MMs, whatever can be played there with no risk of being kicked off. Sure, this means there will probably mean an hour or so time period in which free play wont be allowed, but in the end it prevents any interruption or confusion, and allows the people who want to do MMs and such the guarantee that they wont be kicked off mid match.

2) More of an opinion, have a method where matches are labeled, and people can hand you a piece of paper with the results breakdown. Yes, builds some after tourney work, but prevents tourney delays. Again, just an opinion.
Ill have time to just type it really fast, and if I need to set up matches, Ill either have someone else do it for me or Ill have a paper ready at the laptop area for them to just right it down for me.

3) Or, you could follow a DDR format rule. To explain briefly, people are told that they're "on deck". When the match then comes up, the other player has one or two minutes to be there and ready. If they're not, they use up a "pass" chance, meaning they'll just go to the next round that is able to be done. When they come up again, and the same person misses, they forfeit that round, and are moved to the loser's bracket (eliminated if already in the loser's bracket). If they miss AGAIN, they forfeit the match and are thus DQ'd from the tourney.
Basically just what I said only you gave it a name lol.The only difference is with the Pass chance, that wont be there. HOWEVER, if I can clearly see that they need a bit of time, I will go on to the next available match and get back to them in a bit.

Those are really the only things I can think of. Also, when it comes to "impromptu" tourneys, I honestly see no harm in them done. They just shouldn't report as a part of the PR rankings, IMO.
They arent lol, those are just for fun.


Last thing, if you guys actually think about it, these rules really arent unfair at all. Tbh, all I really said was: 1) I will give you at least a 5min notification that your next match is coming up, and you have another 5mins to get there once its ready. 2) There is a schedule. 3) Report your matches, dont input it yourself, and give more detail so I can help out the Smash Lab. 4) No Free Play on Tournament TVs.

If you guys have a problem with those rules, Im sorry, but you need to stop being such crybabies. Go somewhere else with a somewhat prominent scene, then come back and tell me their TO was more lenient than me.
 

philbobjoe

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
327
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Garage Island
It's funny cuz the Japanese players said they liked our ruleset more than theirs lol.
I think the bigger problem with our ruleset was more RC/Brinstar. Honestly they are way too strong of counterpicks for mobile characters. The reason the Japanese did so well is because they play their games one stages which completely require you to outskill the other player. Just because they liked our ruleset does not mean that their ruleset is not superior for creating better skill. I like playing on Hyrule Temple, that doesn't mean it is a competitive stage. If we would get rid of RC/Brinstar I believe our ruleset would be fine. We need at least one of them gone, so that characters that do terrible on them (such as IC's) can ban the other stage as their ban. I think that is part of the reason the Japanese did so well.
 

Perfect Chaos

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So my opinions on the matter:

A good amount of the Smashers in Utah these days take advantage of the fact that they can do whatever they want and get away with it. The fact that the scene is small is a big contributor to people arriving late, since non-punctual people will simply come whenever they want, thinking that the tournament needs their presence for a decent turnout (which is especially true when 1 carpool is like 1/3-1/4 of the scene) therefore the TO will definitely wait. So there's really only two ways to approach this. The first is to be strict about it, like what Z'z is doing, and start the tournament on time, every time, risking a horrible turnout, in order to try to get people to actually come on time when they realize that the tournament will no longer wait on them. The second is to keep the status quo, and hope that the scene will eventually grow to the point where not waiting wouldn't hurt the turnout. Since option number 2 isn't really that great here, with how new players seem to come once only to get scared away (due to various reasons), there's really not much of a choice other than the first one. But in going the first route, one really needs to follow through on it, or else the negative reinforcement won't be effective at all. The people that are generally late will suffer (other people might suffer, too, when the turnout is horrible), but eventually, those people will either have to start being more punctual (or host tournaments themselves and deal with the problems).

As for being more strict on being on time for matches, I can see why you're opting for DQ's instead of just a match/set-loss. With a big enough skill gap, the better players could potentially simply delay the tournament and take their time when they feel like it, if the only penalty is a game/match-loss, since they'll possibly think that even if they're behind, they're still good enough to come back and win, regardless. So a DQ, albeit a little harsh, might be justifiable in this case. Of course, there's always the chance of this severely backfiring, especially for power rankings, due to all the skewed results.

All in all, Utah, for the most part, has been too lenient over the past years regarding tournament start time and going to play matches promptly, which lead to people taking advantage of that. And old habits die hard, so it's going to be a rough road in order to fix that. I think that what Z'z is doing is justifiable;, no TO wants this sort of thing to happen, but sometimes, extreme actions are needed. People may not like it, but this is something that will benefit the scene in the long run if people are simply willing to follow the rules and promptly be where they need to be. When that happens, everything will go smoothly, and that'll leave more time for stuff like friendlies and whatnot, instead of empty TV's sitting there doing nothing but waiting for a tournament match to start.

As for the laptop issue: Since the laptop belongs to Z'z, he has every right to do whatever he wants with it. So him banning people from touching it shouldn't have people complaining. Of course, he would need to have certain people assigned (i.e. assistant TOs) to be able to update matches in case he's busy, in order to not slow down the tournament, but I'm sure he already has that problem covered. So until the tournament starts to lag because no one is there to update the bracket, no one has a right to complain about this.

As for specific in-game rules like stages and whatnot, I really don't have an opinion on it.

TL;DR: People should just quit complaining, follow the rules, and be on time, then there won't be any problems. The scene will benefit if everyone is willing to do their part.
 

Z'zgashi

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Newba threw a tournament for his birthday.

META KNIGHT'S FAREWELL, SAMUS THROWS A BIRTHDAY BASH!!
Brawl Singles
[COLLAPSE="Bracket"]
[/COLLAPSE]
1: X :dedede: :sonic: :falcon: :ganondorf:
2: Lada :falco: :rob: :dk2: :metaknight:
3: Dark Ryu :diddy: :olimar: :ike: :kirby2:
4: Z'zgashi :yoshi2:
5: Staz :falco:
5: Esx :diddy:
7: Figment :sonic:
7: Pyrozimmy :pikachu2:
9: Newba :falco: :samus2:
9: Will :pit:
9: Butts :marth: :toonlink:
9: Milky Joe :link2: :falco:
13: Pustachio :marth:
13: Tshy :pikachu2: :kirby2: :zerosuitsamus:
13: Cyder :link2: :toonlink:
13: General Spike :wolf: :sheik:

Brawl Doubles
[COLLAPSE="Bracket"]
[/COLLAPSE]
1: Lada + Milky Joe :rob: :dk2: + :link2:
2: X + Newba :wario: :falcon: + :gw: :falco: :sheik:
3: Dark Ryu + Will :kirby2: :diddy: + :pikachu2: :pit:
4: Z'zgashi + Tshy :yoshi2: + :kirby2:
5: Esx + Cyder :diddy: :falco: + :metaknight:
5: Figment + Pustachio :fox: :sonic: + :toonlink: :metaknight:
 
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