Foxy Video Library/Critique

Ahhh thank you Orion! That's actually the kind of advice I was looking for I'll make sure to start working on that, when I go over to Hero's dorm tommorow (if we want to consider today Thursday now)

Orion* said:

only watched game 2 but you are way to content just sitting there and shielding and letting yourself get hit/grabbed for it.

there are also a lot of moments where you just wait and do nothing and refuse to do anything... and then right after you just like hard commit to a dash or jumping or something.

not a fox specialist or anything but imo,

just work on doing your movement/spacing properly without committing so you flow a lot more fluidly and you get better punishes. and then learning when to shield and trying to get mixups to get oos when you are put in a bad position.

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Imma need your help for my matchs against Illmatic's peach. next time I play him I'll post them for critiquing

behind but
most recent(just a friendly from this year)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbavllaBePM
last year
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKNY5NywtiQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiT5Cw51nWk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVWoEavDwgI

Here's video from a tournament a few months ago, it's old sorta but I was hoping someone would critique it, that'd be great.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZpo6m2ego4

Chef Fox said:

Here's video from a tournament a few months ago, it's old sorta but I was hoping someone would critique it, that'd be great.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZpo6m2ego4

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[COLLAPSE= My input]
0:15-0:19, 6:50
I noticed that sometimes you use AC Fair as an approach to Snake (you did this also a few times in game two iirc). This is usually unreliable. Against Snake, AC Bair (Bairing at the last moment to provide an auto cancel) works well and true combos straight into grab at lower percents. It's also safe on shield. You occasionally did do this, but I just thought that i should point out that it works well when he is zoning you (although you must delay the bair until the last moment with an auto cancel timing) .

0:28, 6:17 (might be more times)
Occasionally, I spotted whiffed dairs. I really would not recommend this when Snake has an ftilt with amazing range and power. It's great if he walks or maybe does a DACUS right into it, but that's not likely to happen.

1:03, 4:25, 4:40
eek. Don't upsmash Snake at low killing percents. If he lives, it's very hard to kill him, since it's hard to refresh it since he can crouch under lasers to avoid some laser damage.
4:37-4:46
That's why it's bad to upsmash early. Because of it, he lived to 185% that stock.

1:24, 6:33
Be careful about using fair to juggle when they are above you or at you level (unless you catch him air-dodging to the ground with an fair). Although it does a nice amount of damage, you put yourself above the opponent since fair gives much vertical altitude. Although being above the opponent isn't particularly bad as fox, it could still lead to some punishment (see use of shine stalling section). Uair is more useful. In the first situation, SH AC Uair (if you can do it consistently) would have worked well.

2:41
perhaps the Fsmash was done be accident?

2:47, 4:10, 4:27, 6:03, 6:48, 7:14
This part is really important. You got punished a ton of times offstage because of bad recovery choices, especially in game two. In these situations, use shine stalling offstage. When you are offstage and falling, right before you reach stage level, you should shine stall. They throw off you opponent's timing and allow you to see what they were planning to do. If they throw out an attack or attempted to bait you onstage, go for the ledge. If they went for the ledge, go for the stage. On SV, it is also sometimes not a bad idea to use shine stalling to wait for the platform to come for you and use that to recover. This gave you much trouble, so try to work on this.

2:55- 3:04(This also happened a bit at other times)
The hour of upsmash. During this time, the opponent tries to be careful because they don't want to be hit by it. In some situations, I saw some up smashes that were linear/predictable. Try to be aware of this.

3:50
Upsmash is obviously great at punishing, and you even have enough time to refresh it. However, at that percent, it's way to early to punish with it. Dash attack>turn around grab might have worked here.

About use of shine stalling:
I couldn't help but notice that whenever you are in the air, you usually shine stall only once and then go in for an attack or drift away. I'm not saying to not shine stall, I'm just saying to vary how many times you use it and when you use it. I think he might have predicted your movement in the air because of this.

Good stuff
Overall, you had nice mobility while lasering and had some interesting mix ups when you got into close combat. Really good stuff here
[/COLLAPSE]
That's my input. There are obviously better foxes here than me though, so it would be helpful if they commented also.

Critique please on whatever one you decide to watch. I know it's a lot I just decidied to upload these for future MU references since we got solid gameplay on so many different stages.


Aight actually, I'm just going to add the 2nd Smashville match after I get back from today's smashfest. Soooooo yeah *****s that's it for now.

We out

On the first Smashville match at roughly 3:00 you got back on the stage too early which set you up for Peach's Bair. I would've just dropped down and firefox'ed the ledge again or something to that effect since Hero didn't have a turnip to gimp with. Otherwise I was surprised at the zoning you were doing with lasers and aerials to add bits of pressure ironically against a zoning & pressure based character.

In the first FD video around 2:35 I felt some of your DI choices could've been a bit better starting with when you were getting hit by her Dair at that time which hurt your spacing and let her start racking a good amount of damage. This could just be my perception though so I could be completely wrong.

Just my 2 cents, feel free to throw them in a well if want.

Added Smashville 2

EDIT: Sorry Sarix, I forgot to thank you for the advice. I'll be sure to keep those things in mind. One I do know I need to work on is my SDI of some multi-hit moves so I can punish them. Also I need to start punishing people's dashes when they are in the foxtrot animation so they can't shield and their only options are dash attack and jump (aerial). I just can't seem to position myself to make those punishes, maybe it's a reading thing I need to start working on.

Brawl - 20120114-1 - BAM (Sonic) vs Tearbear (Fox) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbavllaBePM
overall you played the MU correctly, you are doing some unecessary things sometiomes but i think they are mostly accidents which will be ironed out when you play fox more.
apart from that i really have no issues. you didnt approach when you didnt have too and you have a clear idea what you have to do. maybe you did a bit too many full hop dairs, but apart from that you did everything right.
oh you probly sh airdodge too much and roll too much(although sonic cant do much against rolls so its understandable). If you use single lazer when your in range of sonic dashing at you its easyer to avoid getting punished as it lets you commit less (since you dont buffer anything, so you can airdodge or ff and block in time).


E4S Bertha: Tearbear(Fox) vs Pitbull(Lucario) R1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKNY5NywtiQ
very different from your more recent vid. You rolled,spot dodged and airdodged waaay to much. You also approached too much. your first stock was taken because you approached. approaching by airdodge doesnt work against most good players, try to phase it out.
Also try to get your kills more from set ups then predictions. Reads are very good but you have to have the read, the first thing your opponent is guessing your kill method will be is usmash.
You had an easy kill opertunity after you lost your second stock. The lucario's shield was low, you should have read one of his rolls. he didnt wanna get dair shield poked so he was keeping mobile, dash usmash read would have taken the stock away at this point.

E4S Bertha: Tearbear(Fox) vs Havok(Snake) R2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiT5Cw51nWk

ok so first things first, learn what you can punish with usmash. snakes ftilt is punishable with usmash. secondly dont dash attack untill your opponent is at least at 50 percent. Other than that you just need to learn snakes zones with fox. dash shield grab is good.
didnt do the other vid as it was mostly just suicides an input errors. Overall your fox is coming along, just play more damit and have more confidence in your zoneing and spacing.

SSBB - Chef Fox Vs Bizkit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZpo6m2ego4
- if you dair someones shield, dont smash attack, go for a grab or utilt if you expect a punish
- dont over comit when your punishing a snakes landing, he cant go anywhere but down. stay safe, dont reverse the roles.
-learn to buffer turn around grab and usmash from a dair
-dont roll back like that, its easily punnishable
-dont get desperate for the kill, you got two stocked because you approached recklessly.
- when snakes shield is low, take advantage. go for a dair, free kill set up
- the reason you lost was because you were approaching recklessly all day. you need to bait alot more, shoot more lazers a punish him. make him come to you.
-you keep getting hit by ftilt. when your in ftilt range, block and get out, you werent blocking ftilt enough.


iblis, ill do your matches soon

xIblisx said:

Added Smashville 2

EDIT: Sorry Sarix, I forgot to thank you for the advice. I'll be sure to keep those things in mind. One I do know I need to work on is my SDI of some multi-hit moves so I can punish them. Also I need to start punishing people's dashes when they are in the foxtrot animation so they can't shield and their only options are dash attack and jump (aerial). I just can't seem to position myself to make those punishes, maybe it's a reading thing I need to start working on.

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Tis okay, I just looked at this thread again so I almost didn't notice, so no need to apologize . I have some experience with Peach and a friend who mains Peach and we both find that in the matches where I was in the same MU as those videos playing Fox that being patient on the ledge helps Fox deal with Peach since outside of Z-dropping turnips for gimps and a few other options she really doesn't do well with characters who can use the edge to a competent degree.

But then again I may just be using some technical ability based off maining Samus to be creative but possibly not entirely practical on the ledge.

Sarix said:

Tis okay, I just looked at this thread again so I almost didn't notice, so no need to apologize . I have some experience with Peach and a friend who mains Peach and we both find that in the matches where I was in the same MU as those videos playing Fox that being patient on the ledge helps Fox deal with Peach since outside of Z-dropping turnips for gimps and a few other options she really doesn't do well with characters who can use the edge to a competent degree.

But then again I may just be using some technical ability based off maining Samus to be creative but possibly not entirely practical on the ledge.

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I'm still looking at ways to outzone Peach, it's fun. Also yeah I need to start working on my edge game. I've forgotten how to cancel my side b at certian spots off muscle memory, and then there are some ledge tricks I've learned back in like 09 that I'll re-apply to my game now that I can find some use for time.

xIblisx said:

I'm still looking at ways to outzone Peach, it's fun. Also yeah I need to start working on my edge game. I've forgotten how to cancel my side b at certian spots off muscle memory, and then there are some ledge tricks I've learned back in like 09 that I'll re-apply to my game now that I can find some use for time.

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I wish I could fight a peach like this, all I get is Illmatic's Peach in single bracket , plus Ibilis you should try to JC mixup on peach instead of AAA

I might actually get to play Illmatic soon. Idk though

@CRZ: I'm ready for your critique whenever you get around to it.

xIblisx said:

I'm still looking at ways to outzone Peach, it's fun. Also yeah I need to start working on my edge game. I've forgotten how to cancel my side b at certian spots off muscle memory, and then there are some ledge tricks I've learned back in like 09 that I'll re-apply to my game now that I can find some use for time.

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Yeah outzoning Peach and outpressuring her is difficult thanks to all of her priority and the qualities her moves have. I always seem to have a habit whenever I pick up a character to learn their ledge options first; maybe I just have an abnormal sense of comfort on the ledge. Some of my favorite ledge tricks are ledgehopped triple lasers and ledgehopped aerials.

its really hard to punish f tilt when snake only does the first parts and just waits

Tearbear said:

its really hard to punish f tilt when snake only does the first parts and just waits

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yeah im not saying youll do it every time, its just something to think about. if they dont delay it then dash usmash should be your response.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
iblis


dont stress yourself uploading soo many matches man, 3 to 5 is enough. its probly better actually as having 3-5matches at a time will help you compare them with newer vids of yourself. More than that will take up unecessary time. i want to see 3-5 matches each time you have implimented something new, it will help you alot. Eventually youll see these as outdated so dont stress.

i havent critqued your gameplay as much as i could as ive decided to give players a bit at a time, giving you too many improvements at once will make it very difficult, you need to improve in stages so next time i see more matches with the improvements ive made ill give you more. This seems to be more effective than overloading players with lots and lots of points.

- Dont approach when you dont have too, seriously i know youve prob heard it a thousand times but trust me you have to build it into your mindset. if you have the lead, keep it. I know you may feel like getting big damage would be more rewarding but its not worth the risk/reward, just keep your lead, make them come to you. the one in the lead should win a pateince war in genral.

- Dont rush for the kill, something else which you have to incorperate into your mindset for when you play every match. dash usmash is a useful tool with good reads when the risk/reward is in your favour, dont do it just because you can.

- when your zoning with fox, make sure you stop lazering when they get to mid range/ CQC range, you dont want to be getting punished for shooting a lazer. make sure you move back while doing your last lazer before you decide to stop so you have more room for defence


- dont jjc peach, its too unsafe

- dont jab at all against peach

- your voluntarily going into CQC range with peach. peach wins in that range so dont stick around.

- punish her unsafe stuff, look up frame data to see what you can punish with what.

- noticed you like to try an edge guard peach. With peach specifically you dont have to commit to going so close. just stand outside of her ledge options and wait for her to get on stage, her options for getting on stage arnt very safe, you could even wait and go for a fsmash which is quite safe lol. dont panick, peach isnt going anywhere thanks to her air speed,airdodge and small double jump.

C.R.Z said:

- Dont approach when you dont have too, seriously i know youve prob heard it a thousand times but trust me you have to build it into your mindset. if you have the lead, keep it. I know you may feel like getting big damage would be more rewarding but its not worth the risk/reward, just keep your lead, make them come to you. the one in the lead should win a pateince war in genral.

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if you have a read go for it imo but unless you are 100% sure then dont. learning not to force reads, but still making them is hard. but imo middle ground is best

Orion* said:

if you have a read go for it imo but unless you are 100% sure then dont. learning not to force reads, but still making them is hard. but imo middle ground is best

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i wouldnt say 100 percent like it depends what situation your in. if your down in stocks and you have a 50/50 read then it may be worth the risk. Its a judgment call i guess, depends if you think you can bring it back without committing or not.

that sounds more like hoping than reading tbqh

I guess I should mention I don't really camp at all in friendlies.

Thanks for the rest of the critique.

Orion* said:

that sounds more like hoping than reading tbqh

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well you are hoping that your read is correct no? well i guess a 50/50 isnt the best example, maybe a 60/40 read in your favour would be more respectable


np iblis, any time

Oh LOL, and I won't upload five million vids next time. I just did this time cause of MU reference (if we ever decide to go over MUs again)

Thanks for the critiques fox67890 and C.R.Z. I will definitely use your advice to win next time.

One last thing on Peach that is probably pretty obvious but one of the scariest things about her is that aside from her loads of priority going through many of the casts' attacks (bar MK and such) like a hot knife through butter she is one of the only fighting game characters I've ever seen who relies on close range zoning compared to the typical mid-long range. I know I was scaring people in my area when I used to play her just from the combos I could string while preventing them from getting a chance to react.

xIblisx said:

Critique please on whatever one you decide to watch. I know it's a lot I just decidied to upload these for future MU references since we got solid gameplay on so many different stages.

Iblis vs. Hero
1 2 1 2 3 1 2 1 2 1 2 s1: 1 s1: 2 1 2

Aight actually, I'm just going to add the 2nd Smashville match after I get back from today's smashfest. Soooooo yeah *****s that's it for now.

We out

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Sick vids Ibils. I didn't even watched the
all the videos yet.

C.R.Z said:

well you are hoping that your read is correct no?

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No. It should have nothing to do with hope when you make a read, lol. It's purely intuitive or something you noticed and analyzed based off of a habit (in other words a very educated guess).

of my MM with Will.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwsemNmTKRI

I did really random stuff, especially lasering xD

Orion* said:

No. It should have nothing to do with hope when you make a read, lol. It's purely intuitive or something you noticed and analyzed based off of a habit (in other words a very educated guess).

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non the less you are hoping your educated guess is correct, youve made a move based on probability. Not only that, a probability you have come up with about your opponent, it will never be completely accurate. None the less your just clutching at straws, it makes no difference. Reading in alot of cases is a judgment call, and if you dont need a read then why risk advantage for it?

To keep pressure on the opponent.

C.R.Z said:

non the less you are hoping your educated guess is correct, youve made a move based on probability. Not only that, a probability you have come up with about your opponent, it will never be completely accurate. None the less your just clutching at straws, it makes no difference. Reading in alot of cases is a judgment call, and if you dont need a read then why risk advantage for it?

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Once again it has nothing to do with hope. I can't explain something you just feel.

About that shine dive technique that Chef Fox shared with us earlier, It seems to work with fox's illusion as well. While you are in water, jump and then immediately illusion. You don't sink unlike the shine dive if you do this; instead you gain a considerable amount of horizontal distance in the water.

Maybe some already know this, but I just thought I'd bring it to attention.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gepgjelk0yc&feature=channel_video_title

match 1 where i beat his zss isn't getting uploaded

and i'm not experienced vs falco so i was scared to punish alot of things

Idk if you want to listen to me or not, I've been playing fox for almost two months now mainly against a very strong Falco. Fair is Falco's worst aerial and should be easily punished from a shield grab on the platforms, same with Bair. Also I'm sure you realized that after the first stock you shouldn't of re-approached Falco at such a low percent. I'm sure this is right, but correct me if I'm wrong

Player-3 said:

and i'm not experienced vs falco so i was scared to punish alot of things

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Yeah, that's kind of obvious. You pretty much let Falco take control of the pace of the match, and he's not going to make too many mistakes unless you pressure him. In anycase, it didn't seem like you knew what to do half the time with your attack strings either(at 1:00, you Fair->U-air, for a follow up you could've done was DJ Bair to top platform or predict the Dair and shield-grab).

A few things to watch for next time: Don't let yourself upsmash at 0-20%, it's punishable on hit. Learn to 'approach' Fox, basically move close enough to be threatening but not enough to be hit and go from there. Also keep moving, you have the entire stage to move around.

First stock was depressing, next time shinestall if you need time to think. I would've rising fair right away in that situation. If you're pro, right after you got back air'd, DI up and tech into the stage, and then shinespike Falco for a stock.

Narsic said:

Idk if you want to listen to me or not, I've been playing fox for almost two months now mainly against a very strong Falco. Fair is Falco's worst aerial and should be easily punished from a shield grab on the platforms, same with Bair. Also I'm sure you realized that after the first stock you shouldn't of re-approached Falco at such a low percent. I'm sure this is right, but correct me if I'm wrong

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Listen to this guy.

I'll teach you the MU next time I see you Joe. LOL

Iblis vs. Hero

Only uploaded one because I need some critique before Saturday's tourney. Chose a losing because those are the ones I learn from XD

So please critique anyone.

The first problem I saw was that your head on approach towards the beginning seemed a bit reckless and let Peach get a free jab in and start zoning you pretty nastily. What was really bad was Peach was still in her the less than 40% "freebies" range when she got the first KO on you. You were doing well around the 2:00 minute mark when you started baiting more to get Peach to approach, but once you started going in for attacks after the Fair you took she took advantage of that and started getting her zoning shenanigans going.

I'd say try and bait her more and punish into combos since Peach's burst range and priority combined make her very scary at close range since that is how she zones opponents and can cut through quite a few of Fox's attacks with hers.

Edit: I also forgot to mention that even on the Peach boards they agree on it being safe to be aggressive against Fox so playing defensively seems to be key.

xIblisx said:

Iblis vs. Hero

Only uploaded one because I need some critique before Saturday's tourney. Chose a losing because those are the ones I learn from XD

So please critique anyone.

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Since tomorrow is saturday, after watching your vid the best advice i can give is to focus more on getting the better position than hitting your opponent hard. If you have the better position with fox, damage and opportunity will come, you will also stop getting hit by so many silly things. Think alot about your mind set, focus on getting them in the air or off stage. Always take the good positions when you can.

Thanks guys.

I think the reason I do really badly in game is because I think really 2-D sometimes. I'm going to start working on that. I'm getting tired of being able to watch videos and point multiple mistakes but when I play I can't fix my own mid-match.

We'll see how fast I can shake that. Hopefully before the tourney XD

I need to do some thought training.

xIblisx said:

Thanks guys.

I think the reason I do really badly in game is because I think really 2-D sometimes. I'm going to start working on that. I'm getting tired of being able to watch videos and point multiple mistakes but when I play I can't fix my own mid-match.

We'll see how fast I can shake that. Hopefully before the tourney XD

I need to do some thought training.

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Really its due to the fact that you try to think and play as if you are watching some of your video sets, making you over analyze and become very...2D. All you really need to do is just watch how you get hit and how you attack, have a arsenal of approaches/defensive options in you head already, and mix it up as you go.