Newbie 17 - Breaking Bad Mafia! Game over! Who won?

Shun Goku Satsu Rake · May 13, 2012

note ** 10 and 11 are still J , not my responses

Shottymaster · May 13, 2012

FoS: JDietz

The way you are trying to defend yourself against J really does not sit well with me. Partially because you are trying to nullify J's scum read on you by pointing out that Ori is scummy as well, and partially because your logic and arguments are just terrible in some places.

Jdietz43 · May 13, 2012

I'm thinking you guys might just want to lynch me to clear my slot off the table if you think we can afford it. I think this might honestly be our best move so people can go back to having a discussion that doesn't hinge on questions surrounding my slot.

@Rake: No I don't have a scum read on you. J was implying I had one on every single person who ever suspected me of being scum and I had to attempt to talk him down (while also pointing out that some of them had never even fully said such)

Wrt Zen/Orbo slot: I resigned myself to a town read on the slot long ago for better or worse, I can see the points Rake is making against Orbo currently, but since they also apply to me and I know I'm town I have to take them with a grain of salt. I will say however that if today ends with my lynch, I wouldn't take the fact that I had a town read on the slot as gospel simply because I'm a dead clear, there is plenty of room for error in my opinion, but it's the read I have left.

Shun Goku Satsu Rake · May 13, 2012

Jdietz43 said:
I'm thinking you guys might just want to lynch me to clear my slot off the table if you think we can afford it. I think this might honestly be our best move so people can go back to having a discussion that doesn't hinge on questions surrounding my slot.

@Rake: No I don't have a scum read on you. J was implying I had one on every single person who ever suspected me of being scum and I had to attempt to talk him down (while also pointing out that some of them had never even fully said such)

Wrt Zen/Orbo slot: I resigned myself to a town read on the slot long ago for better or worse, I can see the points Rake is making against Orbo currently, but since they also apply to me and I know I'm town I have to take them with a grain of salt. I will say however that if today ends with my lynch, I wouldn't take the fact that I had a town read on the slot as gospel simply because I'm a dead clear, there is plenty of room for error in my opinion, but it's the read I have left.

For this first part , i have not seen enough yet to want to see you lynched, clearing a slot is neither helpful. The question surrounding your slot may be a distraction , but it is no more distracting then the storm currently surrounding Orbo's slot.

For the last part:

Actually, to be entirely accurate most of what i said only semi pertained, as i still haven't gotten through all your posts, i didn't feel it was fair to throw you in without looking at the entire picture, it's my bad if i didn't make this clear enough through my wall of responses.

One , i'm hoping not to see a lynch still, As for your read as town it wouldn't change my stance on orbo, you being dead clear would just make me re-analyse the J / Orbo relationship, and look at other peoples actions towards Zen. As for if you flip scum, i would do much the same

Ori_bro · May 13, 2012

Jdietz43 said:
What's your current read on J btw?

Haven't I said this like 8 times before? I've got slight town on J. If I was to put it in numbers, it would be like 55:45

Ori_bro · May 13, 2012

Rake, I finally finished your giant wall.

I really like the points you made in 5, 6, and 7. It makes me feel good there is someone else, who is thinking Orbo is slipping up and is looking mad scummy.

Orbo, what is your impression of J and how do you respond to Rake's wall? Since it is heavily focused around you.

Ori_bro · May 13, 2012

Went to check when dead line is, and we have 3 days. I thought we had more time.

#HBC | J · May 13, 2012

@Rake: Wow, thanks for the huge response. However, there just seems to be one question I need to answer from you and it is that I can see myself lynching Orbo due to his play this game, especially as of late, and the way he is dealing with the Ditzy/Ori situation. A scum-flip from Ditzy would make my read on Orbo much stronger due to the nature of it all. However, vice-versa is true. A scum-flip on Orbo will make my read on Ditzy even stronger. Most of what I have on Orbo is tied to Ditzy in my opinion. Since I cannot convince you onto Ditzy but you sure as heck have put my Orbo read through a tizzy and back so I am content with seeing Orbo go toDay.

For me, as long as its one of Ditzy/Orbo, I am happy. I am not seeing an Ori lynch toDay imo.

Unvote
Vote: Orboknown

Ori_bro · May 13, 2012

J and Rake, you feel that an Orbo lynch will benefit us more than a JD lynch? JD/Orbo are who I seeing being the prime suspects to be lynched toDay. Right now I can't trust either, and I have a sinking feeling one of them is scum.

Jdietz43 · May 13, 2012

Ori_bro said:
Haven't I said this like 8 times before? I've got slight town on J. If I was to put it in numbers, it would be like 55:45

Bull****

What happened to that "OH yeah J is scum" read you had.

Vote: Ori

Jdietz43 · May 13, 2012

Anomandaris_Rake said:
For this first part , i have not seen enough yet to want to see you lynched, clearing a slot is neither helpful. The question surrounding your slot may be a distraction , but it is no more distracting then the storm currently surrounding Orbo's slot.

For the last part:

Actually, to be entirely accurate most of what i said only semi pertained, as i still haven't gotten through all your posts, i didn't feel it was fair to throw you in without looking at the entire picture, it's my bad if i didn't make this clear enough through my wall of responses.

One , i'm hoping not to see a lynch still, As for your read as town it wouldn't change my stance on orbo, you being dead clear would just make me re-analyse the J / Orbo relationship, and look at other peoples actions towards Zen. As for if you flip scum, i would do much the same

Alright, I won't sacrifice myself for the cause then.

Who are you looking at as your prime target today? I still want Ori for contradicting himself on his J read multiple times and playing the self preservation game.

#HBC | J · May 13, 2012

Ditzy, Rake has made it clear he wants Orbo gone as his strongest read toDay. =P

#HBC | J · May 13, 2012

Ori_bro said:
J and Rake, you feel that an Orbo lynch will benefit us more than a JD lynch? JD/Orbo are who I seeing being the prime suspects to be lynched toDay. Right now I can't trust either, and I have a sinking feeling one of them is scum.

Join us on Orbo then, Ori_boat. <3

Ramen King · May 13, 2012

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!
Deadline 5/16, 11:59 PM EST

Vinyl. [0]
Anomandaris_Rake [0]
Ori_bro [3] Vinyl, Orboknown, Jdietz
Bardull [0]
Shottymaster [0]
Jdietz [1] Ori_bro
Orboknown [2] Anomandaris_Rake, J
J [0]

Not voting: Bardull, Shottymaster.

Vinylic. · May 13, 2012

The hell happened?

Jdietz43 · May 13, 2012

J said:
Ditzy, Rake has made it clear he wants Orbo gone as his strongest read toDay. =P

He's made it clear he has reasons to suspect Orbo, I want to hear his actual choice straight from him.

#HBC | J · May 13, 2012

....he just voted and added to the case I made with his own reasonings. He has been very close to the chest w.r.t. his vote so I thought it would be obvy his choice was Orbo.

#HBC | J · May 13, 2012

Vinyl/Shotty, comments on the Orbo wagon? Also what makes you of a possible Ditzy wagon? Since I see you both here and all.

Jdietz43 · May 13, 2012

Ok I see where he voted now lol, lost it at the end of the giant wall.

Yeah that's pretty self explanatory then.

#HBC | J · May 13, 2012

You've been skimming a lot this game Ditz....=P

Jdietz43 · May 13, 2012

(making sure he wasn't simply talking about Orbo while planning to lynch someone else)

Yeah, I'm in four of them now (three playing, one Mod). People keep asking me to replace. I read what I can but sometimes I miss things like votes in dark red.

#HBC | J · May 13, 2012

I'm in 4 and 1/2(3person mafia) sooo I know your pain.

Jdietz43 · May 13, 2012

Mhmm. Luckily the other three are in night phase, so I'm here.

#HBC | J · May 13, 2012

Exaaaaaaaaaaaaactly the same thing again for me haha.

Would you join a Orbo lynch? If he flips scum, who is town on his flip? If he flips town, does Rake/Bardull look any more suspicious than they did before? Which read of yours is stronger, Ori or J? If Ori flips town, what does that do to your J-read? When J flips town, what does that do to your other reads?

Ori_bro · May 13, 2012

Since I'll be getting one of the 2 I want gone;

Unvote, Vote: Orbo

Jdietz43 · May 13, 2012

J said:
Exaaaaaaaaaaaaactly the same thing again for me haha.

Would you join a Orbo lynch? If he flips scum, who is town on his flip? If he flips town, does Rake/Bardull look any more suspicious than they did before? Which read of yours is stronger, Ori or J? If Ori flips town, what does that do to your J-read? When J flips town, what does that do to your other reads?

Good questions lol.

I won't join you on an Orbo lynch unless the alternative would be to stall out the day phase to a NL, but I won't fight people who choose Orbo and give reasoning.

I'd have to think pretty hard about who I would look at it Orbo would sflip scum, I've had the slot as an auto-town read for so long I'd probably have to rewrite the whole reads book with it in mind and don't really know who I'd look at first right now. (though I think at that point if Orbo is Ice mafia rather than Fire, people will come knocking on my door next regardless of who I look into). If Orbo flips town I'm going to be more critical of Bardull as he's the least substantiated while voicing suspicion, and also critical of you for being on his wagon willingly after all the fights we had.

Ori is a stronger read because he's dropped more clean-cut scumtells than you have (not elaborating on votes, self preservation, low posting when not pressured etc.). If Ori flips town, I believe it will be largely null on my J read (I'd have to rethink the intricacies of the reverse relationship since I'm used to thinking of it in Ori acting with regards to J rather than reverse). If J flips town, I'm not sure where my other reads will go, do you have any suggestions? (since at that time I'd know to take your advice as genuine)

Jdietz43 · May 13, 2012

In reverse, where will you be looking if Orbo flips town? What would a JD town flip do to your reads? And would you be willing to look into Ori-scum come tomorrow?

Jdietz43 · May 13, 2012

Ori:

Can you give me some substantiation in your own words why you've chosen Orbo as an acceptable lynch?

#HBC | J · May 13, 2012

Jdietz43 said:
If J flips town, I'm not sure where my other reads will go, do you have any suggestions? (since at that time I'd know to take your advice as genuine)

My reads are pretty out there as is haha. I would say when I flip town to look at your slot/Orbo a lot more carefully because of my arguments presented on you both. Then I would choose probably Ori/Bardull as my back-up reads. The rest of the player list I don't really have problems with.

Jdietz43 said:
In reverse, where will you be looking if Orbo flips town? What would a JD town flip do to your reads? And would you be willing to look into Ori-scum come tomorrow?

If Orbo flips town, I will most likely want Bardull's head on the chopping block due to the nature of his push on Orbo being the weakest and the slight way he has been somewhat piggybacking the stronger players in the game to satiate himself as doing things. He has done this to me about two or three times now and it's got me worried a bit, but not so much at the current time because he could just be acting on who he believes as town. The thing that is pinnacle for me finding out what his true motives are will be how Orbo flips.

Ditzy town would make me wanna look at Ori_boat the most. I would probably have to re-evaluate my read on Vinyl and also Bardull too because of the way they have been approaching things or the lack of approach towards the wagons and the lack of reasonings for not getting involved with it. Treading on careful ground they seem to be when the topic of you comes up.

Ori_Boat would be someone I would be willing to look into toMorrow more than I would be toDay when your slot and Orbo are still in the mix because one of your slots has got to go toDay in order to clear things up and, for me, they feel like stronger scum-reads and scummier slots than Ori's, whose actions can be seen as town as well as scum. For me, it seems Ori is one of those people that can do something and you can see it through so many different perspectives but when he is scum, it is really transparent. The game that I thought showed that was his first one here and then the other games I played with him, he is more obv-town. This game he is sitting in the nulls because I am having a hard time reading him.

Shottymaster · May 14, 2012

Not sure I'm completely convinced he's scum but I've had to skim the last three or so days so I'll give a definite answer when I have a chance to look into it (tomorrow afternoon most likely).

Orboknown · May 14, 2012

i leave for the weekend and I am at L2 now. wtf mothers day curse.
let's see what is addressed to me specifically.

Orboknown · May 14, 2012

Orboknown said:
I know right?

Bardull what's your lynch pool?

this was never answered.

Ori_bro said:
I have called Vinyl scummy. He was who I wanted to be lynched D2 before the Vitamin C train started. I paired Vinyl with either Kary or Ran, i forget which (most likely Ran) when ran flipped town I marked him down as town since then. He really hasn't done much to make me change my mind.

you didn't call him scummy today. you had him as scum on scumran flip. which you receded when rantown become known via flip.

Jdietz43 said:
Orbo posts continue to be bad.

what?

J said:
This is odd, why say this when you had been saying that you had a town-read on Ditzy. One of which that has never been substantiated well nor did you express that you were about to change. However, you change back to a town-read on Ditzy real shortly afterwards.

I was reconsidering EVERYTHING at that point. I didn't like JD parroting my slot the entire game, but upon my reread i thought the earlier scumhunting he did nullified the sitting around he did earlier ToDay.

This feeling I get of Ditzy-Orbo connection keeps getting stronger by the way the two guys have been treating each other.

:/

This is the big difference between Ori's and Ditzy's response to pressure. Ori still tries to help town where Ditzy starts flailing and calling everyone else scum and acting Ori. Ori is more so acting rationally and still trying to help town even though he is being pressured. I dislike this entire tear-down of Ori because it is REACHING heavily for posts to try and justify why it is bad. Other people have expressed distaste with this post and why other have liked Ori's and I have to agree with that side of things (Shotty/Bardull) However, there is only one person to agree with Ditzy on this thing w.r.t. his opinion.

Bull****@bolded. I don't see ori doing anything to help town. unless wagon jumping is considered helping town nowadays.

He says "for reasons Ditzy stated" which means he is just piggybacking and then says false things about Ori whereas he is explaining what Ditzy is doing. He even calls Ori out on self-preservation iirc where the real person who has been doing this ever since he name fell into the hat of possible lynches, is Ditzy. Yet Orbo is holding a double-standard for his push on Ditzy-Ori and I am honestly baffled by this.

I was thinking on the game while i was walking to work. by the time i got back online JD had posted what i was thinking. true story.

when had JD been showing self preservation?

Orbo backs up Ditzy's hurried attitude of rushing the hammer but he was paranoid earlier....excuse me but what? I don't like this hammer fishing coming from Ditzy-Orbo.

I wanted to finishing rereading each slot thus far. by the time I had posted that ori's responses to me reeked of him being scummy. I admitted i was reaching on his online posting via phone habits and apologized for it.

Bottom line: I dislike it. Orbo is just trying to shrug off the attention that is being focused on his slot and I do not get why. He seems uneasy when people question his alignment which hasn't really been done and his reaction to said pressure looks grimy.

I responded to rake's case, which he never responded back to. Bardull brought up BS points about zen knowing ran too well to call him scum, when zen knowing ran so well could have been the reaosn for it. By knowing Ran as well, zen could take anything he doesn't perceive as ran's norm and think it scummy.

We can even go into the fact that Ditzy also continously followed Zen when he was in the game and piggybacked his reasoning as I have pointed out already. Zen's slot-Ditzy have had a connection this entire game and it is even clearer when shown through who both slots have tried pushing together. Zen's slot has only had these tiny little pushes at Ditzy whereas Ditzy has not even cared to look at that slot while remaining to call every other slot town.

bolded was what moved me to considering him before.

And Ditzy has begun to become a hypocrite lately. Look at the way he calls me out for buddying Orbo, but lately Ditzy has been buddying Orbo out the wazoo, however, Ditzy also forgot to mention that he had been buddying Zen when he was in the game as well so he is falling into his own scum-tell there.

I don't see him buddying me. Pushing the same person doesn't equate to buddying in my book.

I'm sorry Orbo that is has to be this way, but I will free you from your scummy self. The towny group will miss you.

Yea, town will miss an active tonwie.

J said:
This little excerpt of the Vote Count can show you who is actually behind the Ori wagon and giving its full steam-ahead/no other choice vibe. Its just Orbo-Ditzy pushing it together while the rest of us watch. Vinyl hopped on as a scape-goat and then the rest of us, however, are looking at Ditzy. Do not be fooled. Join me on the Ditzy wagon and let's lynch some scum!

=D

I started the damn ori wagon, which you were on before his AtE FUD post.

Anomandaris_Rake said:
Well we could do that, or we could attempt to do something and get another mafia out and i dislike how orbo nonchalantly throws ori as his only scum lynch concern

He is the most scummy to me at this time. Bardull posting a string of questions then disappearing doesn't sit well either.

rage mode much ? If ori isn't going to post, oris not going to post, reasons be damned

eh true.

Because if the flip is town we've managed to lynch all town so far, the only mafia kill has been from the other mafia, us townies don't have a great track record

indeed we don't. which is why i began the day rereading every single slot.

orbo himself is getting all post erratic.

I go off in tangents at times. You know this.

**10) This is insanely bad logic. When they stop being scum? So you think all of Bardull/Shotty/J/Rake/Ori are scum? Are you insane? The only one with a town-read on you that has clung to it is Orbo so Orbo is the only one town to you? Your reads are vapid and solely rely on how people view you. This proves my point of you not caring to develop your reads. Expound on them, build cases on people, make the effort to determine alignment.

this has merit J.

*11)

The bolded bit is not even the reason for why I want to lynch you. You are strawmanning my argument. Orbo has been squirming, especially when pressed by Rake with a certain quote saying, "man why are you tunneling me so hard?" Rake and Bardull have presented reasonings for why they feel he is scum. Rake has even presented a case against him so there has been evidence against Orbo, have you read that case?

I'vw been squirming? That's news to me.

Anomandaris_Rake said:
For this first part , i have not seen enough yet to want to see you lynched, clearing a slot is neither helpful. The question surrounding your slot may be a distraction , but it is no more distracting then the storm currently surrounding Orbo's slot.

Said storm literally materialized because me and JD are on the same scumspect right now.

One , i'm hoping not to see a lynch still,

wtf. horrible mindset

Ori_bro said:
Rake, I finally finished your giant wall.

I really like the points you made in 5, 6, and 7. It makes me feel good there is someone else, who is thinking Orbo is slipping up and is looking mad scummy.

Orbo, what is your impression of J and how do you respond to Rake's wall? Since it is heavily focused around you.

J is still town to me. haven't gotten scum vibes form him. I responded to rake as I thought i needed to.

Ori_bro said:
Since I'll be getting one of the 2 I want gone;

Unvote, Vote: Orbo

wagon hopping isn't scummy at all.
/sarcasm.

if i missed anything you guys want me to respond to, point it out to me.

BarDulL · May 14, 2012

I'm here. I've been busy with things and I only had time to deal with the minigame yesterday (or was it the day before yesterday? Can't remember. Friggin weekends go by simply way too fast.)

Addressing everything now.

Current lynch pool from what I can remember:

Scum: Orboknown, Ori_Bro
Null: Shotty
Town: Vinyl,, Rake

Hard to place: J, Jdietz. WTF at both of you. -_-

Orboknown · May 14, 2012

you're gonna need to substantiate why you want me dead.

Orboknown · May 14, 2012

I don't know why the giant space is in my 1312.

Bardull you can't use zen knowing ran well as an excuse in your argument for me needing to die because that is a horrid reason to base a case on.

J whatmade you flip from JD to me when you specifically said I'm only scum in link with Dietz?

Orboknown · May 14, 2012

Vinyl and Shotty, full reads list now.

BarDulL · May 14, 2012

Rake has pretty much summed up everything so far, + the way Zen pushed Ranmaru was just bad.

@Shotty, tell me who scum is.

BarDulL · May 14, 2012

Ninja'd by Ninjaknown.

BarDulL · May 14, 2012

Random thoughts: I honestly like Rake. I think Rake is legit.

I don't like the "self sacrificing" thing JD did because god that's just awful.

J is also bad because all he's doing is denouncing JD but he isn't looking elsewhere from Orbo/JD. Also he has managed to move from Ori to JD to Orbo now in one day, which shows a lack of commitment. It also looks like he's trying to set me up for a lynch in the event Orbo flips town.

Also, lol at me piggybacking you J. I pushed the scumknown case first. Or Rake did, but I didn't notice. Herpaderp.

#HBC | J · May 14, 2012

As I said, Rake's case made my read on you fall into a tizzy and your rebuttal of said case did not really do much for me.

Newbie 17 - Breaking Bad Mafia! Game over! Who won?

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru

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