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Canada [Jul 26, 2014] B.C. Brawl Monthlies - Back in business, now featuring Smash 64! (Burnaby, BC)

Blue Yoshi

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
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Jake is definitely dropping Yoshi
I finally read every post I missed. Here are my responses:





Blue Yoshi, that's rlly deep stuff .____. Don't really know you, idk if I've played you, but hope you feel better from all this :)

Even if I have legit met you or not, it's always sad to see someone go S: You take care bro.

On a side note, when's the next monthly/whatever? I'm still in if I know the date >:)
I’m the guy who was on the team that did the double DDD infinite on you and your teammate (I think it was you we did it to). I was the one that said later that set “lets not be too cruel to them, they are new, after all”. I believe we played in singles as well.

I take this as a personal shoutout. :)

I am a beeeeeeeeeeach that likes mmmmmbananas, I promise.

I hope everything turns out well for you Rob, look forward to seeing you again in the future.
In case you didn’t see it yet (and for anyone else who wants to watch it):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4f9m4OYkCY

I'm learning G&W with the sole purpose of being able to troll like Blue Yoshi.
haha lol <(^o^)>

Trolling with GaW is SOOOOOOOOO MUCH FUN!!!!!

{
Wolf Sucks.
}

lol Jason 2 gud

Incase you havent seen Sonys version of smash

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aVxcHTD1fY
Oh god a friend of mine showed me this. No. Just… No.

LOLWTFHAHA

Alright awesome, thanks.

Have you watched it to see how hillariously derpy it is Dawson?
DERPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks mang :)

We both played pretty derpy in that set it was funny. Dat RC
DERPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Things seem a little off without the occasional Blue Yoshi troll post.

o well



happy birthday Trevor
Aww, thanks Sheldon <(^o^)>

The Official Tier List as of 12/16/11
- Offline

S+: Metaknight

S: Ice Climbers

A+: Olimar Diddy Falco Snake Fox

A: Pit Wario Marth Dedede Zero Suit Samus

B: Toon Link Robot Lucario Zelda and Sheik Game and Watch

C: Donkey Kong Peach Wolf Kirby Pikachu Ike

D: Lucas Mario Sonic

E: Luigi Bowser Yoshi Ness

F: Ganondorf Pokemon Trainer

G: Captain Falcon Link Samus

H: Jigglypuff
Yes, I co-main the worst character in the game.

lol haha good job. Almost makes me want to do that myself. ALMOST…

Reposting because it is required.

you guys didn't take any lucky candy at p7 huh :urg:
When people answer my question :troll: I’ll say why we/I failed at P7. It is completely related to my question :troll:

This this this!

Sigh, BC... making me go to the Peach boards for entertainment :(
I leave, and the thread dies apparently…

wonder what rob is doin right now
I am currently struggling to read every post I missed, and making responses to all of the ones I feel like making responses to.

Lol! Nah there are like... 100 Marth users in BC now. I do have one in mind actually and have tried it out a bit... kinda struggling but it's fun :D

This is why Mario DOESN'T complement Peach:

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6386756/peach-and-zelda-catch-up
OH MY GOD THAT IS AMAZING LOLOLOLOLOL

I am sharing that with the Victoria Smash group.

Omg, just learned a series of lux desyncs. The sky is the limit.

Love this character.

^ I was making a joke that BC > AB. Having a Western Canada PR is like dumb.
'charges laser'

DAMACIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

SinisterB

Smash Champion
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Messages
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BC
Slippi.gg
SINS#333
NNID
shadymaiden
Oh god the thoughts of spike combos and dumb shenanigans as I watched that,
the whole thing
amazing.

Sort of random but Jer do you still happen to have that Falcon combo of mine on Lylat? You'd be total bro if you did, the Falcon boards are getting around to the next Falcon CCV and it'd be sick if I could use that clip. :bee:
 

Blue Yoshi

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
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Jake is definitely dropping Yoshi
Oh, a few other things I forgot to mention in my response to posts.

I am for unity MK ban. I am completely opposed to Japanese rule set, specifically the part where you can't ban FD. This is basically a guaranteed win for Diddy, Falco, Ice Climbers, etc etc. How would you guys feel if you couldn't ban Rainbow Cruise against me?

I understand the idea behind the japanese rule set (i.e. Meta Knight can't ban FD, so everyone can counterpick him there), however, you're adding a rule that although it brings MK down to probably even with some characters, it completely destroys other matchups that don't even involve MK.

The best example is Ice Climbers. Kyle (Grimice) said, and this is the case with several IC matchups (and several other non-IC matchups like Diddy/GaW), whoever wins game 1 wins the set. If IC loses, they counterpick FD or Battlefield, and likely win (several IC's prefer Battlefield over FD, so that's why I'm putting both). If IC wins, the opponent counterpicks Rainbow Cruise or Brinstar, and they likely win.

Now, if you use the Japanese ruleset, Ice Climbers can choose either Battlefield or Final Destination without fear of being banned, and now don't have to go to a strange stage that may hurt them. Same with Diddy, and other characters. And characters that used to rely on these stages to handle a character like Ice Climbers or Diddy or Olimar now have nowhere to go.

I see this as a last ditch attempt to make MK even against a good enough portion of the cast. Although this does happen with the Japanese ruleset, it also completely changes how every other matchup gets played out.

So... yeah. I am completely against the Japanese ruleset.

Anyways, I gtg... already 45 mins late for the brony meet-up.

Also, happy birthday to everyone I missed during my absense on the boards...



Also, currently:

1 Fluttershy: Big D
1 Twilight Sparkle: T-Block
1 Pinkie Pie: (I forget who... I think it was... Jesse?)
0 Rainbow Dash:
0 Rarity:
0 Applejack:
 

| Big D |

Smash Master
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Messages
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Location
Hinamizawa, BC
I like both rule sets Rob but I disagree with your logic.

Arcansi time.

I am for unity MK ban. I am completely opposed to Japanese rule set, specifically the part where you can't ban FD. This is basically a guaranteed win for Diddy, Falco, Ice Climbers, etc etc. How would you guys feel if you couldn't ban Rainbow Cruise against me?
It's not a guaranteed win at all. With the same logic we can say that Brinstar and RC are free wins for G&W. And that we can't ban both so G&W has a free win on CP. I don't believe in your free win logic at all. I have both beaten and lost to Jake on janky and neutral stages. And you can't rely on the stage at all for characters like Diddy/Falco/ICs. It's not a CP stage at all, it's a neutral for a reason.

I understand the idea behind the japanese rule set (i.e. Meta Knight can't ban FD, so everyone can counterpick him there), however, you're adding a rule that although it brings MK down to probably even with some characters, it completely destroys other matchups that don't even involve MK.
You have to understand you are not adding any rules. This isn't an adaptation of Unity. This is a rule set used in japan. Really it creates a meta game which favors reads/control over stage knowledge and abuse. It brings everyone closer to MK and doesn't destroy any MUs at all.


The best example is Ice Climbers. Kyle (Grimice) said, and this is the case with several IC matchups (and several other non-IC matchups like Diddy/GaW), whoever wins game 1 wins the set. If IC loses, they counterpick FD or Battlefield, and likely win (several IC's prefer Battlefield over FD, so that's why I'm putting both). If IC wins, the opponent counterpicks Rainbow Cruise or Brinstar, and they likely win.
Then the problem lies with Rainbow and Brinstar doesn't it? You could say that an ICs player has to win 2 games while the other player only has to win one. That severely hurts how viable ICs are. On CP stages the other character doesn't have to work nearly as hard to beat ICs while on neutrals the ICs and foe have to work just as hard. I don't agree with Grimice at all, sure you will lose on CP, but if you win game 1, you have to work just as hard game 3. It's basically win game one or lose, not win game one and win. Otherwise ICs would always win.

Now, if you use the Japanese ruleset, Ice Climbers can choose either Battlefield or Final Destination without fear of being banned, and now don't have to go to a strange stage that may hurt them. Same with Diddy, and other characters. And characters that used to rely on these stages to handle a character like Ice Climbers or Diddy or Olimar now have nowhere to go.
People shouldn't rely on stages to beat characters at all. That's not learning the mu at all. learn the MU. In a way it could hurt the viability of mid tier characters but it also creates many more viable characters to compete with MK.

I see this as a last ditch attempt to make MK even against a good enough portion of the cast. Although this does happen with the Japanese ruleset, it also completely changes how every other matchup gets played out.
You can say that Unity changes how MUs play out. This is a rule set. We're not buffing/nerfing characters here. These rules are not in place just to create the conservative environment that has been used by the Japanese. Nothing is added, nothing is taken away, it's just a different rule set.

From hearing both sides, it may be best to go with Apex. It doesn't have free win stages, as well as having stages that slightly benefit both players.
 

Asa

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Oh, a few other things I forgot to mention in my response to posts.

I am for unity MK ban. I am completely opposed to Japanese rule set, specifically the part where you can't ban FD. This is basically a guaranteed win for Diddy, Falco, Ice Climbers, etc etc. How would you guys feel if you couldn't ban Rainbow Cruise against me?
i beat you on rc :troll:
 

Arcansi

Smash Champion
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BC(Vancouver Island) Canada
I like both rule sets Rob but I disagree with your logic.

Arcansi time.
I like that you used this. What I don't like is how all your logic seems to suck.

It's not a guaranteed win at all. With the same logic we can say that Brinstar and RC are free wins for G&W. And that we can't ban both so G&W has a free win on CP. I don't believe in your free win logic at all. I have both beaten and lost to Jake on janky and neutral stages. And you can't rely on the stage at all for characters like Diddy/Falco/ICs. It's not a CP stage at all, it's a neutral for a reason.
1. Believe in & logic are mutually exclusive.

2. You need to pick an argument and stay with it. I could technically say the first part of your post is false because you don't believe in the free win logic. And in fact, I will.

3. Please, go ask anyone knowledgable in the stage discussion forums if FD is a polarizing stage for characters like Falco//ICs. I mean, I have a hard time believing what your typing there you believe in.


You have to understand you are not adding any rules. This isn't an adaptation of Unity. This is a rule set used in japan. Really it creates a meta game which favors reads/control over stage knowledge and abuse. It brings everyone closer to MK and doesn't destroy any MUs at all.
1. It's true you aren't adding anything, but that doesn't disprove what he says. It SHOULD say 'The ruleset change adds this metagame(or ruleset-specific) effect.

Also, allow me to tell you straight up Japanese ruleset makes pit vs many characters SO much easier.

Then the problem lies with Rainbow and Brinstar doesn't it? You could say that an ICs player has to win 2 games while the other player only has to win one. That severely hurts how viable ICs are. On CP stages the other character doesn't have to work nearly as hard to beat ICs while on neutrals the ICs and foe have to work just as hard. I don't agree with Grimice at all, sure you will lose on CP, but if you win game 1, you have to work just as hard game 3. It's basically win game one or lose, not win game one and win. Otherwise ICs would always win.
No, you could not say that. You see, difficulty (sometimes referred to as a tech skill floor) has no real mention in balance discussion unless it is unreliable. E.G. If one character being overpowered relies on a 1 frame link combo, but everyone can do that combo easily with under a day of practice (for whatever reason), then the fact that it's a 1 frame link no longer matters.


It's basically win game one or lose, not win game one and win. Otherwise ICs would always win.
What are you saying here?

People shouldn't rely on stages to beat characters at all. That's not learning the mu at all. learn the MU. In a way it could hurt the viability of mid tier characters but it also creates many more viable characters to compete with MK.
If our ruleset was based on a philosophy that somewhat represented 'we want a balanced game', this point would be legimate.

As it is, this point is moot because we don't, we just tell people to abuse whatever they can that doesn't instantly win them the game and let them fight.

You can say that Unity changes how MUs play out. This is a rule set. We're not buffing/nerfing characters here. These rules are not in place just to create the conservative environment that has been used by the Japanese. Nothing is added, nothing is taken away, it's just a different rule set.
1. When you compare two rulesets and the change between them, you are always nerfing//buffing characters (or the ruleset does nothing.) Because nerfing//buffing them is relative.

2. Then what else are they in place for?

From hearing both sides, it may be best to go with Apex. It doesn't have free win stages, as well as having stages that slightly benefit both players.[/QUOTE]
 

Blue Yoshi

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Jake is definitely dropping Yoshi
Ok, I was over exaggerating in several places in my post, but it was to emphasize a point. Yes, I do know that they are not free wins etc., and yes, I know I've lost on Rainbow Cruise several times (though Asa, I should remind you you suicided on Rainbow Cruise that one time that ended the set... if you remember that... lol ;))
 

| Big D |

Smash Master
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Thing is each rule set has a different philosophy.

So many issues between the two.

MK legality.

RC/Brinstar polarization.

Being able to counter pick or playing on more neutral stages.

8 or 10 min timer.

Scrooge rule.

What skill do you want to measure.

You can go into a debate in any of these.

Personally, I would have liked to try the JP rule set.

Apex rule set is looking pretty good atm.
 

Jason!

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Messages
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BC, Canada
Zelda da bess zelda da bess zelda da besssss zelda da bess zelda da bess zelda da besssss zelda da bess zelda da bess zelda da besssss zelda da bess zelda da bess zelda da besssss zelda da bess zelda da bess zelda da besssss zelda da bess zelda da bess zelda da besssss zelda da bess zelda da bess zelda da bessssszelda da bess zelda da bess zelda da besssss

BESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
 

Asa

Smash Hero
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Hawaii
no sry pit is the bandwagon character atm cuz of the new video game

would like to see vinnie's zelda tho
 

Blue Yoshi

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Jake is definitely dropping Yoshi
As far as rules go, here's my thoughts... yes, this may differ from my last post, but oh well.

Bottom line as far as the rules go is people want different things, basically all pointed out by Dawson. The main things is:

MK legality

Rainbow Cruise/Brinstar

Stage lists (I'm keeping this as a separate thing to RC/B, though they're similar).

I'll be completely honest, I am fine if Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar both leave, or just one. I would much prefer that not to be the case, but I see the reason why people have a problem with it, and it is legitimate. However, I am completely against the "you can't ban FD" idea.

Meta Knight is a completely different issue, and should be discussed separately (sure, this and the stages are linked, but for the most part, they are separate problems).

So for stages, assuming we are to fix the RC/B problem... first off, I don't know what the Apex ruleset is, so if someone could post the stages for that... I'm too tired to search. Anyways, as to what I was getting at, I thought of three possible solutions to the stage problem (I was bored today).

1. Only one of Brinstar or Rainbow Cruise. If this is the case, I recommend it being Rainbow Cruise, since more people like that stage than Brinstar. This removes the "you can't ban both RC/B" problem.

2. Keep all the rules as they are (normal bc brawl rules as they have been recently), however, give a player the option, when banning, to ban both Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar (they can ban any stage, including only one of the two, or if they wish, they can ban both). This keeps all the stages as they are etc, and there is no RC/B problem.

3. I know this will come with a bunch of disagreement, and I am far less in favour of this myself. Allow a player to ban 2 stages every time. Basically as it says. Someone can ban both RC and B. I would be against this, but I thought of it, it is a possible solution, so I'm posting it.

Anyways, do whatever with this post.


=======================================================================



On a different note, I have pinpointed what exactly has been making me consider quitting brawl entirely (and still contemplating it). Funny enough, it basically all comes down to one specific set that has happened recently... (it has nothing to do with depression). I'll make a long post when I feel awake enough for it... and having thought over it the past few days, it will be a long post. So... yeah.





Also, just because it is necessary:





Also, this is the current tally as far as which pony everyone thinks I am most similar to:

2 Pinkie Pie: Jesse, Firefly
1 Fluttershy: Big D
1 Twilight Sparkle: T-Block
0 Rainbow Dash:
0 Rarity:
0 Applejack:




There is actually a reason why I am asking this (two actually. One is I am curious as to people's answer to this. Second, and why I'm asking it now specifically, is that the answer is (edit: in-)directly related to why I am considering quitting...) so guess and I'll tell you guys later... when I'm not as lazy/bored.

But for now, guess which pony you think I'm most similar to lol. Edit: and I guess while I'm at it, and guessing games are fun, guess which set I'm referring to in my other part of my post...
 

| Big D |

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Happy Late Birthday Trevor I'm ashamed we let one slip by. I blame the URC.

MK legality and stage list are very related as one of the main reasons MK was banned was that he breaks the CP system. The other being over centralization, and having to restrict his time out abilities.

I'd also like to add that swithcing rule sets does not take away options from characters. It's more different rule sets give different characters different tools. You could say that ICs rely on not having to play on janky stages with JP and making them play on janky stages screws them in the mu.

As for ways to deal with RC/Brinstar, I'm really against just injecting rules. It's much better to go with an existing rule set, much less controversy as well knowing it works. Two rule sets that come to mind are JP and Apex.
 

Blue Yoshi

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Jake is definitely dropping Yoshi
All I am doing at the moment is saying "ok, this seems to be a problem. Here are a thousand possible solutions, even though I may not necessarily agree with anything I am saying myself". I am completely on the same page as you, go with a proven ruleset over making a new one. All I'm doing is giving suggestions in case people want to do certain things etc. Basically, I'm giving us more options. And I guess for lulzyness's sake, I'm basically giving us more options to say no to haha <(^o^)>

Anyways, being serious, you know what I mean...
 

Blue Yoshi

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Jake is definitely dropping Yoshi
I've been trying to find the difference between unity and apex stage lists, and came across this:

Resolving Pool Ties
In the event two or more players are tied at the conclusion of a round of pools at a Unity Ruleset tournament, the following process will be done:

Players will be compared with each other on various criteria in this ordered precedence:
  1. Set Wins
  2. Head to Head
  3. Wins
  4. Losses
  5. One Game Rematch

If players are still tied on a step, you move down to the next one. For instance, if Player A and B both go 3-2 in sets in a round of pools, you will then proceed to the Head to Head step (who won the set between those players). Whoever won vs the other will proceed at the top of the tie.
So we have been doing it non-unity. If there is a tie, the tiebreaker is determined by the winner of their head-to-head game, not by wins/losses. I am actually more in favour of this over wins/losses myself, since me, and others, like to try out other characters in pools to either have fun, or to test out to see if that character is good enough to be brought out in a legitimate set.

Anyways, the difference between Apex and Unity is basically Rainbow Cruise, Brinstar, and Pokemon Stadium 2 are banned instead of counterpick, and Castle Siege and Pokemon Stadium 1 are counterpicks instead of neutral. Although I'm losing most of my favourite stages, I'd be fine with trying this out. I still think the Japanese ruleset is way too extreme on their neutrals (mainly the you can't ban them part), but Apex seems fine...
 

Drake12

Smash Ace
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Mar 23, 2010
Messages
525
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British Columbia
Am I walking into the middle of an mk discussion?
Is there a conclusion? I'm sure ppl know where I stand. I'm just curious because I'm sooo borderline on where I'm going september, and the smash communities play a part in my decision.

Also I thought you guys would be the right crew to ask...could anyone tell me anything about BCIT? I'm looking into it and wondering what peoples opinions are.
 

Arcansi

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
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BC(Vancouver Island) Canada
On a different note, I have pinpointed what exactly has been making me consider quitting brawl entirely (and still contemplating it). Funny enough, it basically all comes down to one specific set that has happened recently... (it has nothing to do with depression). I'll make a long post when I feel awake enough for it... and having thought over it the past few days, it will be a long post. So... yeah.
This is odd. Human nature dictates that we make decisions (especially larger ones) over a long period of time, or in surges of searing emotion. I'd love to hear your explanation.


There is actually a reason why I am asking this (two actually. One is I am curious as to people's answer to this. Second, and why I'm asking it now specifically, is that the answer is (edit: in-)directly related to why I am considering quitting...) so guess and I'll tell you guys later... when I'm not as lazy/bored.

If this is going where I think it's going, it's stupid ironic.

Am I walking into the middle of an mk discussion?
Is there a conclusion? I'm sure ppl know where I stand. I'm just curious because I'm sooo borderline on where I'm going september, and the smash communities play a part in my decision.

Also I thought you guys would be the right crew to ask...could anyone tell me anything about BCIT? I'm looking into it and wondering what peoples opinions are.
I don't think we will ever come to a decision. We lack a philosophy to go off of, and nobody seems to want to talk about one. Also, very few people seem to be able to put up legitimate points and defend them (no offence).

It'll prolly come down to whatever the TO wants.
 

Blue Yoshi

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Jake is definitely dropping Yoshi
This is odd. Human nature dictates that we make decisions (especially larger ones) over a long period of time, or in surges of searing emotion. I'd love to hear your explanation.
Ok, let me rephrase my statement. Something has been happening over a LONG LONG duration of time (since before I came back to the mainland tournaments beginning with Komodo Brawl). One recent set in particular has basically had this thing occur extreme enough that I basically started considering taking a break/quit brawl (my playing has gone down immensely since that set).

edit: my wording sucks on that last sentence... essentially, this thing that has been happening since a long time basically happened at an extreme level (in my opinion) in one particular set.

If this is going where I think it's going, it's stupid ironic.
I have a feeling you may know exactly where this is going. And yes, there is tons of irony.

I don't think we will ever come to a decision. We lack a philosophy to go off of, and nobody seems to want to talk about one. Also, very few people seem to be able to put up legitimate points and defend them (no offence).

It'll prolly come down to whatever the TO wants.
The TO always gets the last word in, since they are the ones hosting it. So technically, Landon could use any ruleset he wants. If he uses one that nobody likes (e.g. Hanenbow only coin match), then nobody has to show up to it. So the attendees of the tournament do have a say as to what they want as far as rules go, and the TO has to listen to these requests and opinions, and from that make a ruleset (or use a ruleset) that satisfies most of the attendees. You'll have some attendees who make the TO's job harder (e.g. I will not likely show up to any MK legal event, Ben may not show up to any MK banned event), but in the end, the TO basically decides what happens.
 

Arcansi

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Ok, let me rephrase my statement. Something has been happening over a LONG LONG duration of time (since before I came back to the mainland tournaments beginning with Komodo Brawl). One recent set in particular has basically had this thing occur extreme enough that I basically started considering taking a break/quit brawl (my playing has gone down immensely since that set).
Oh yeah, that's completely normal. It's also normal for the event in question to be EXTREMELY overhyped (you see it as a lot worse then it was) so you may want to look into that. I'm not saying it is or that you should change your mind, though.


I have a feeling you may know exactly where this is going. And yes, there is tons of irony.
But it's the bad type...



The TO always gets the last word in, since they are the ones hosting it. So technically, Landon could use any ruleset he wants. If he uses one that nobody likes (e.g. Hanenbow only coin match), then nobody has to show up to it. So the attendees of the tournament do have a say as to what they want as far as rules go, and the TO has to listen to these requests and opinions, and from that make a ruleset (or use a ruleset) that satisfies most of the attendees. You'll have some attendees who make the TO's job harder (e.g. I will not likely show up to any MK legal event, Ben may not show up to any MK banned event), but in the end, the TO basically decides what happens.
Essentially, it should be the whole community deciding on it, but it won't be.

What I'm saying is we won't really make a decision in this thread, and the TO will decide it on his/her own (mostly). That's what I think.
 

Alacion

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I think we should vote via PMs as to choose the future of these monthlies. You guys worry about creating drama but there is nothing more decisive than a majority vote.
 

Alacion

Sunny skies
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Thing is we'll NEVER agree on anything. I'm holding firm on my preference, as will probably everybody else. And... BC is extremely lazy. But hey, if you're all so against it I urge you all to come to a consensus for which ruleset we use.

Omg Korra was so good!

 

Arcansi

Smash Champion
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BC(Vancouver Island) Canada
Thing is we'll NEVER agree on anything. I'm holding firm on my preference, as will probably everybody else. And... BC is extremely lazy. But hey, if you're all so against it I urge you all to come to a consensus for which ruleset we use.
I am against it, but it does not mean I can change your mind.

You guys do not want a unified ruleset. You simply want a ruleset that you like.

That seems selfish. You can have preference but still compromise//agree on a philosophy.
 
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