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Parachute Parade! - GnW Social Discussion

MEOW1337KITTEH

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 25, 2011
Messages
1,072
Location
Tucson, AZ
NNID
daniel7001
-What color costume do you most often use?
1. Black (4)
2. Red
3. Green
4. Blue (2)
5. Cyan (2)
6. Yellow (2)

-If your normal color is taken, what color do you use?
1. Black (6)
2. Red (2)
3. Green
4. Blue
5. Cyan (1)
6. Yellow (1)

-Do you change costume values based on stages (Write in what color on what stage)
1. Black on Lylat Cruise
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
So yeah, LzR, KALLL linked me to you as an exampler Jigglypuff.

By the way, I use the wh- I mean, cyan-colored gaw.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,909
Location
Colorado
wifi lag is like a god who smiles upon some characters and smites others. I beat a Math 2 times in a row with Ganon, the 2nd 2 stocking him but lost with Link. Link can't do anything in lag :( .
 

-Ominous-

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 12, 2010
Messages
285
I use all colors. My preference is probably:

blue, cyan/green/black, yellow, red

in that order.

I usually just choose one random one. And if I ever lose a match, I switch to another color for some reason.

I don't like the color red too much.
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
"Hey this is a good Jigglypuff", he said.
That was back when I was wanting to learn how to use Jigglypuff. It was funny.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,909
Location
Colorado
If I learned to Jiggz, I'd play all 4 H tier characters and could switch between them to counter their bad MUs. Oh wait...

Jiggz is fun to use but my control over her is terrible. Floaty characters always feels very weird to use for me.
Does Sing have any uses if the opponent is good and knows not to fall for traps like the ledge trick?
I can see Sing being used in doubles but not singles.
 

Patches

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
3,170
Location
Land of the party
You can use it on the edge. Grab the ledge, drop down, jump and use sing. You'll regrab the edge and the opponent might fall asleep. Only good use, IMO.

:phone:
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
"Hey this is a good Jigglypuff", he said.
That was back when I was wanting to learn how to use Jigglypuff. It was funny.
Lmao. That was a long time ago then, I stopped using Puff like a year ago, but my avatar stays :awesome:
Well I used to play Puff against "bad" players because I actually could beat them and that's why he might have got the whole "good Puff" thing.

Jiggz is fun to use but my control over her is terrible. Floaty characters always feels very weird to use for me.
Does Sing have any uses if the opponent is good and knows not to fall for traps like the ledge trick?
I can see Sing being used in doubles but not singles.
Sing is arguably the worst move in the game. At very high percents it can lead into rest. Though the problem is that even then it's harder to land than rest itself lmao xD
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
It was against Jebu. xd

Anyway, how do you define a "good" player? Not just you, LzR, but to everyone else. A few people seem to think that good players are only pros like Ally, but those guys aren't JUST good...they're great. They're but the best. And yeah, under that context, most of us suck. But really, now. A few people I know think they suck just because they're comparing themselves to them. I find that criteria to be too strict. They should just judge themselves by how well they do at their region.
I think I'm a good player in my country.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,909
Location
Colorado
Sing is arguably the worst move in the game. At very high percents it can lead into rest. Though the problem is that even then it's harder to land than rest itself lmao xD
I can see that. Even Ganon's Warlock punch seems better.
Anyway, how do you define a "good" player? Not just you, LzR, but to everyone else. A few people seem to think that good players are only pros like Ally, but those guys aren't JUST good...they're great. They're but the best. And yeah, under that context, most of us suck. But really, now. A few people I know think they suck just because they're comparing themselves to them. I find that criteria to be too strict. They should just judge themselves by how well they do at their region.
I think I'm a good player in my country.
For this I'll be referring to good players and up to pros. Pros win tourneys, travel for them, know every character's cheap tricks and don't buckle under pressure. Some people can be good but crumble under pressure. Some great players never play the tourney field and are highly skilled but can't be recognized like pros. Moving down, good people know their character and most other character's options but don't play with the killer instinct great players do, letting opponents get away with stuff, recover, giving them time to think and not pursuing attack opportunities like they should.
__________________________
Under the line that separates good players and up are players who often have good techskill and control over their character but don't use the best choices for their situations. They lack experience but do have good potential for improvement.
And the skill ladder keeps going down from there but there's no point talking about it.

<><><><>
Wifi isn't ever as good as offline but even pros use it and (with a good connection) brawls showing pro skill levels can be played. IMO (living in the Mountains in the black hole of USA smash, CO and some other west Midwest states) the lag's inconsistency is what kills wifi's value for rating skill the most.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnpUYwoqxM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2RBmQWbK2g&feature=plcp
But wifi is underrated because it's bad parts without considering how it can be when it works right :/ . Peope should take advantage of all their options including wifi. I've learned a ton from wifi vs pros in areas I'd never be able to play otherwise.
(no, that's not smiley face).
<><><><><>
Characters have to be considered to. There are good MK players and scrub MK players who win. You can tell if they're good by things I described ^above. Winning does not necessarily mean a player is good until moderately high competitive levels of play where even MK can't spam and win. I think some high tier players get ticked off because they do win with skill but lower ranked character players say it's just from the tier advantage. Pro players do know that you need characters who realistically can win to win. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=321738 I actually like the term 'borderline tier' because IMO that's roughly where the cutoff is.
There are pro players of low tiers but the characters really are too bad to accumulate many big wins; hence their low tier ranking.

So my best answer a player's skill based on good things like knowing every character, their spacing, cheap tricks, lag, Brawl in general, stages etc and playing to maximize their stronger points and exploit weakness in the opponent's character. Not to be flashy just to look cool. They're not predictable, don't take many risks but wait for openings instead. 'Recognize the opponent's patters and style and are able to adapt and use the best choices as new situations arise without missing opportunities. They take full advantage of an opponent's bad situations (which includes punishing) and know when and how to reset the situation when it looks bad for them. Good players take no prisoners and should always be doing something even if it's bluffs to scare and mess-up the opponent's spacing. They know things won't always go their way, **** happens but keep their cool and deal with it. They play to win, not to be nice and take advantage of time-out wins, annoying camping, planking etc. However, in friendlies they prefer to win by skill and will SD if the opponent accidentally SDs at low %s (especially on wifi) and don't abuse lag to spam shuttle loops or whatever. Good people intentionally play better players to learn but are also willing to help worse players learn. They have good manners and say good game afterwards and aren't salty to the opponent about wins or losses. In general good players make the best use of everything. And have minimal bad habits/traits.
 

SFA Smiley

The SFA King
Joined
Jan 19, 2010
Messages
2,640
Location
Virginia/Arizona
Won a tournament today, but it was with :zelda: lol :3
lol

she's so terrible

As for the good players thing, I think people say they suck not because they believe they suck but because if you believe you're good to early you tend to stunt your growth as a player. This game being so casual and all, we already know most of the people that come to this site are good. We're good because we're part of the 1% of players who play this and make reads, know their techs and incorporate them, don't think edgehogging is "cheap" (which still baffles me why people have that opinion) etc etc

We're already on a different tier list. The tier list of good players, but people may see themself on the bottom of that tier list because it's the same one that Ally, Vinnie, M2K, and other top players inhabit.

Personally i would never say I suck. Compared to players like that I probably do, but I'd be disrespecting myself and all the work i've put into making what's considered an unviable character viable. I didn't come all this way from ACTUALLY sucking, to still suck, and i'm not paying 5-10-15 bucks a tourney to suck. **** that lol

I'm legit, just less legit =)
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,909
Location
Colorado
Won a tournament today, but it was with :zelda: lol :3
I know ;)
lol

she's so terrible

As for the good players thing, I think people say they suck not because they believe they suck but because if you believe you're good to early you tend to stunt your growth as a player. This game being so casual and all, we already know most of the people that come to this site are good. We're good because we're part of the 1% of players who play this and make reads, know their techs and incorporate them, don't think edgehogging is "cheap" (which still baffles me why people have that opinion) etc etc

We're already on a different tier list. The tier list of good players, but people may see themself on the bottom of that tier list because it's the same one that Ally, Vinnie, M2K, and other top players inhabit.

Personally i would never say I suck. Compared to players like that I probably do, but I'd be disrespecting myself and all the work i've put into making what's considered an unviable character viable. I didn't come all this way from ACTUALLY sucking, to still suck, and i'm not paying 5-10-15 bucks a tourney to suck. **** that lol

I'm legit, just less legit =)
yeah :(. Zelda does well vs Wario for a low tier at least. :/

LOL

Awesome statement:awesome:
 

MEOW1337KITTEH

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 25, 2011
Messages
1,072
Location
Tucson, AZ
NNID
daniel7001
I need to work on my replay recording skills. I must have had at least 20 matches worth recording, and I forgot to do all of them..

:phone:
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
It was against Jebu. xd
Oh so it was that damn old money match Puff vs DK? Damn that MU is ********. :(

Anyway, how do you define a "good" player? Not just you, LzR, but to everyone else. A few people seem to think that good players are only pros like Ally, but those guys aren't JUST good...they're great. They're but the best. And yeah, under that context, most of us suck. But really, now. A few people I know think they suck just because they're comparing themselves to them. I find that criteria to be too strict. They should just judge themselves by how well they do at their region.
I think I'm a good player in my country.
A good player is someone who is better than me imo. I think I am on the borderline level. I think once I overcome my next plateau, I will finally be a "good" player. :awesome:
 

Triforce Of Chozo

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Messages
663
Location
Norman, Oklahoma
A good player has solid fundamentals and will hold their own against the higher level players. They may get two stocked by the likes of Ally or Vinnie, but that doesn't make them bad.
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
I like all of your opinions reguarding "good" players. Especially yours, Rizen. It's very well detailed.

Personally, I don't use the word "cheap" to refer to things that might give an unfair advantage. Besides, the only thing that I find lame (like, really lame) is edgehogging. The opponent might as well suicide.
 
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Deleted member 189823

Guest
It's still pretty lame way to "win" or get a kill. You can't honestly say you killed your opponent.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,909
Location
Colorado
I like all of your opinions reguarding "good" players. Especially yours, Rizen. It's very well detailed.
:cool:
Personally, I don't use the word "cheap" to refer to things that might give an unfair advantage. Besides, the only thing that I find lame (like, really lame) is edgehogging. The opponent might as well suicide.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=X02hRfEKK08#t=126s :grin:
Good players don't easily get edgehogged though. Unless they happen to be Ivysaur.
Very true. Edgehogging can be very effective too though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxvPxetn2As&feature=player_detailpage#t=152s
Most opponents have setups where edgehogging is the best defense against them. Which sparks a big metagame segment about avoiding being edgehogged and so on...
________________
It's funny how different things bug people who use different characters. Edge hogging/avoiding it is a big part of Link's game so it doesn't bug me. Chaingrabs are a different story, lol.
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
That was a pretty...not-lame edgehogging.
I am a Bowser main, and he has a cool way of edgehogging too.
 

ZTD | TECHnology

Developing New TECHnology
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
15,817
Location
Ferndale, MI
I decided to come back to these boards and give :gw: a shot again. He's so much fun to me. Plus, I have motivation this time. Besides, I feel like these boards could use an overhaul. Not entirely sure what I can do to help but I'll do what I can. :D
 

Dexident

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
272
Location
Alaska
Dude Swei, I'm right there with you about edge-hogging. IMO it's just a matter of how you were raised at this game. If your group of friends never edge-hogged, then you probably wont (like me). If you were raised playing this game with people just accepted it as a way to win then you will no doubt be edge-hogging.

Exploits just irritate me because I consider them broken in a way. Take Mach Tornado, for instance. Yes it is a cheap move in some ways, yes you can get around it easily if you are expecting it and know the move's attributes. But it's spammable, it's got transcendent priority and with platforms it can be landed with little lag. It's a lame move, and when I see a MK player using it excessively I immediately think less of them because it means they are willing to just use an exploit like that to win (usually players like that don't win though).

Anyway, like Ivysaur for instance. I will not edge-hog an Ivysaur unless I am behind a stock and their Ivysaur has been kicking my ***. Then I will do it to even the match, but even then I feel lame and dirty. If an opponent is on the ledge, that is already good enough for me. That's where the magic happens. You own the stage, they must answer to you.

Anyway, Cyan Blue.

All day.

'Ery day.
 

ZTD | TECHnology

Developing New TECHnology
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
15,817
Location
Ferndale, MI
I feel like in a competitive setting that mindset will lose you matches that you probably shouldn't. In tournament there is no reason to let "pride" get in the way of playing the best and most effective strategies. But to each his own.

And yes, Cyan :gw: is hot.
 

MEOW1337KITTEH

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 25, 2011
Messages
1,072
Location
Tucson, AZ
NNID
daniel7001
-What color costume do you most often use?
1. Black (4)
2. Red
3. Green
4. Blue (2)
5. Cyan (4)
6. Yellow (2)

-If your normal color is taken, what color do you use?
1. Black (7)
2. Red (2)
3. Green
4. Blue
5. Cyan (2)
6. Yellow (1)

-Do you change costume values based on stages (Write in what color on what stage)
1. Black on Lylat Cruise


And it's nice to have you back tech_chase (even though you played gnw way before my time)
 

ZTD | TECHnology

Developing New TECHnology
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
15,817
Location
Ferndale, MI
If Cyan is not available, I will go black.

GW is black anyway. The way he dips with his Up-B. Only a black man can get out of there that fast.

:denzel:

And thanks for the welcome. Gonna start doing it up in tournament with him this summer. He doesn't cover D3s bad MUs extraordinarily well but whatever.
 

SFA Smiley

The SFA King
Joined
Jan 19, 2010
Messages
2,640
Location
Virginia/Arizona
Dude Swei, I'm right there with you about edge-hogging. IMO it's just a matter of how you were raised at this game. If your group of friends never edge-hogged, then you probably wont (like me). If you were raised playing this game with people just accepted it as a way to win then you will no doubt be edge-hogging.

Exploits just irritate me because I consider them broken in a way. Take Mach Tornado, for instance. Yes it is a cheap move in some ways, yes you can get around it easily if you are expecting it and know the move's attributes. But it's spammable, it's got transcendent priority and with platforms it can be landed with little lag. It's a lame move, and when I see a MK player using it excessively I immediately think less of them because it means they are willing to just use an exploit like that to win (usually players like that don't win though).

Anyway, like Ivysaur for instance. I will not edge-hog an Ivysaur unless I am behind a stock and their Ivysaur has been kicking my ***. Then I will do it to even the match, but even then I feel lame and dirty. If an opponent is on the ledge, that is already good enough for me. That's where the magic happens. You own the stage, they must answer to you.

Anyway, Cyan Blue.

All day.

'Ery day.
Oh god, don't make me give the edgehogging speech... i haven't said it in so long i forgot most of it. Edgehogging is not an exploit, it's an intended aspect of the game, there is a reason only one character can grab the ledge. In melee bonus mode, you were positively rewarded (with points) for edgehogging. You're forcing your opponent into a bad position and then finishing them off with a very powerful "attack" of sorts (them being edgehogged) it's not much different than supers in Street fighter. As a game and watch player you guy DEFINITELY must start edgehogging, it's very VERY vital to his success as a character. one of his major strengths is being dangerous offstage and forcing opponents into positions to get stagespiked or edgehogged. If you opponent put themself in a position where they can be edgehogged it's their fault. YES even if they are using ivysaur, it's a balancing (albeit terrible) factor for the character. If they don't like being edgehogged they shoulding use ivysaur, just the same way if you don't like dying early or can't handle it don't use GW, or don't like getting infinited don't use fox or bowser.

Edgehogging is very risky against good players and it's not a "cheap" way to win, at all. If you edgehog stupid or mess up you can lose your stock just as quickly especially at low percent. Some characters are very HARD to edgeguard and it's not a problem at all for them. When I use MK and my shuttle loop gets edgehogged I just continue to fly under the stage to the other side, if i'm marth or GW i stall with bucket and Dancing blade. As peach I float.

Long story short, drop that mindset, edgehogging is important and a major factor of the game that is not only fun but vital for this character.

Edit: also it's not your job to have to manually balance the game by limiting yourself against bad characters, it's sakurai's job. If I don't feel like destroying my friend's ganon I use my low tier mains. I'm not saying you are a "scrub" but the literal definition of one is someone who instead of blaming themselves, they blame the game, or their friends, or their opponents or whatever. It's why i'm Anti-ban. Vinnie has beat M2K and Nairo and a number of other players MK with Gdubs, there is no reason I shouldn't be able to emulate that outside of me just ever being good enough (Although, MK is overpowered I don't personally perceive him as broken, but that's a whole nother can of worms.) If you look at things like getting tornado'd and getting edgehogged your fault you will become a better player, because not everyone is your friend and when money IS on the line, they will edgehog you, the only person i've ever been timed out by is my friend who is SUPER against timing out, because an xbox was on the line (he won by the way, as snake with 12% on me)

Was it gay? Yeah, especially from him, (although the circumstances weren't your average tournament standards, still)

The point i'm making, is honor gets dropped all the time if you ACTUALLY have a shot at the money, so you have to train yourself for those situations.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,909
Location
Colorado
Take Mach Tornado, for instance. Yes it is a cheap move in some ways, yes you can get around it easily if you are expecting it and know the move's attributes. But it's spammable, it's got transcendent priority and with platforms it can be landed with little lag.
MK Nado does not have transcendent priority. Transcendent means the hitbubbles will only react to hurtboxes and never other hitbubbles. Nado has 3 hitbubbles, 1 to MK's right, 1left and 1 under his hurtbox. These have a weird 'armor' like trait that nulls other hitbubbles that they touch. Their priority can be raised by mashing 'B' and slightly lowered if nado's stale. Kind of like Fox/Falco's sideBs hitbubbles 'armor'. Any attack will stop nado IF it only touches MK's hurtbox and not the nado hitbubbles. But since transcendent attacks ignore other hitbubbles they will always stop nado if they hit MK.
In melee bonus mode, you were positively rewarded (with points) for edgehogging. [...]
As a game and watch player you guy DEFINITELY must start edgehogging, it's very VERY vital to his success as a character.
[...]
Edgehogging is very risky against good players and it's not a "cheap" way to win, at all. If you edgehog stupid or mess up you can lose your stock just as quickly especially at low percent. Some characters are very HARD to edgeguard and it's not a problem at all for them. When I use MK and my shuttle loop gets edgehogged I just continue to fly under the stage to the other side, if i'm marth or GW i stall with bucket and Dancing blade. As peach I float.
[...]
Edit: also it's not your job to have to manually balance the game by limiting yourself against bad characters,
[...]
It's why i'm Anti-ban. Vinnie has beat M2K and Nairo and a number of other players MK with Gdubs, there is no reason I shouldn't be able to emulate that outside of me just ever being good enough [If you use a character who realistically CAN beat MK that is]
[...]
The point i'm making, is honor gets dropped all the time if you ACTUALLY have a shot at the money, so you have to train yourself for those situations.
Agree with everything (except MK's broken but yeah, that's a Pandora's box topic to open), especially the parts shown. It's important to consider the orange text I added in the MK ban topic too.
 

Dexident

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
272
Location
Alaska
Lol.

I think it's funny that people get so upset about me (us?) thinking that edge-hogging is lame. Because your thinking it is great and fun is not affected by my not enjoying it, whereas my not enjoying it is greatly affected by your thinking it is great and fun.

Anyway, I understand that zero ****s will be given if I do or do not edge-hog in a professional match. I'm just not on the "do whatever it takes to win" band wagon. Could that potentially lose me some games? Yes. Would I probably drop that mindset in a money match? Yes. but the bottom line is I would rather play a chivalrous and competitive match.

Honestly my main reason for playing the game is to play against some of my very best friends. And when we play each other it is very much like an honorable round of Kung Fu, there are no edge-hogs, there are no chain-grabs, there is no gay bull****.

It's not a matter of pride, but honor, in my opinion. And that changes for everyone. Don't get all uppity and offended by my point of view. You're in the majority.
 
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