Newbie 19/Paper Mario: TTYD mafia // Game Over! Who won?

@Rake - I'd probably hafta agree with Kary's point there, "why?" is usually more important than "what?" Even seemingly insignificant posts can be interpreted in certain ways. If somebody's accusing lotsa people, they could be a townie looking for leads or someone who's scum trying to go unnoticed by spreading accusations. The part that's difficult is determining which way to see things, and, like I said, now is a bit early to have much certainty. If a gambit is involved and the player lies, yes, you probably should still give some thought to the action. If someone is scum and playing well enough, they could use a complex gambit to convince everyone that they're town. It's probably unlikely enough that you'd normally never have to worry about that, but, main point, at least take some notice when someone lies.

Lolilovesrain, are you RL friends with Clover? Can you tell if she is mafia or not?

Lol I'm not rl friends with clover I live in Florida xD Ive only met J once other than that I don't know any of you guys

Also, I don't know if clover is town or mafia. The game doesn't start until everyone confirms so I.figured all this was just BS talking...was it not?

But Clover lives on Planet Earth. D:

Lol I just figured you might have since... you are both girls. lol

Ah, here is the thing. Most of us have confirmed of seeing our role pm's, meaning we know what role we have. Once you know what your role is, you'll play in the way it influences you to. Others, seeing their role pm, can react to this, and you can also.

So you shouldn't take pre-game, nor early game, as BS talk.

LoliLovesRain said:

Lol I'm not rl friends with clover I live in Florida xD Ive only met J once other than that I don't know any of you guys

Also, I don't know if clover is town or mafia. The game doesn't start until everyone confirms

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This reaction seems a little defensive...

LoliLovesRain said:

. I.figured all this was just BS talking...was it not?

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Some of it has been interesting
Some of it has been building for the future
And some of it was BS

Have you seen anything that you agree or disagree with Lolli ?

Ranmaru said:

So you shouldn't take pre-game, nor early game, as BS talk.

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You have to admit Ran, the pictures and links mighta been a wee bit of BS lol

Like, it's an open setup, so, there's not much room for gambits etc. anyways. You should know what roles etc. are in the game, how many kills there are, etc.
But on the other hand, if someone asks you if you're the cop and you're the cop, you should probably lie and say that you're not.

Anomandaris_Rake said:

Unless they have lied on a gambit , right ? Look at what Zen did end of last newbie game.

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Not sure what you mean. I don't think there's any 'unless' about it. Basically, always try and figure out whether someone has actually lied, and why they told that lie, before you kill them. Sometimes people's opinions change or whatever and people accuse them of contradicting themselves, lying, etc. and it all goes downhill...

OH AND DON'T BE HASTY
/words of advice that weren't asked for.

"advice is a form of nostalgia" (Baz Luhrmann - Everybody's Free (To Wear Sunscreen))

@Ran - Offline, I knowwww J and Badwolf and Benji and Hipster and Homeslice. Words might not mean so much in this scenario, but, I'm vanilla townie.

And, yep, Ran knows what he's talking about. Even early on, you can start getting a feel if something's amiss. Someone who's scum can try to hide it, but that player is still conscious that he or she is scum, and even something as simple as word choice can provide detailed insight into that player's psyche.

Clover said:

@Ran - I'm vanilla townie.

.

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..........

10 unsure early claim dots

Say what Rake?
Ugh, are you skimming?

Kary said:

Say what Rake?
Ugh, are you skimming?

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Nope.
What makes you think I am skimming ?

Kary while your here , quick question :
How will you handle your current game-plate (I see your in Tekken and another one plus this).

@Rake- It's hard to work with words. Online, you can't hear the tone behind what someone is saying, so it's just up to you to determine for yourself whether or not someone is being earnest. Ran was curious and seems to be generally interested in progressing the game, so I felt that a response was deserved. I appreciate openness in certain scenarios. Not always the best option for everyone, but it's always there for those who wanna take advantage of it.

@Rake:

Because I claimed town already and you didn't call me on early claiming.
But you did call Clover on it. There could be plenty of reasons for that but I'm actually most concerned with whether you're skimming.

And I've no idea how I'm going to handle being in 3 games, Rake. Can't talk about other games anyway. Uh, I guess I might rush my posts more... whatever etc. etc. I'll still be here.

Clover said:

@Rake- It's hard to work with words. Online, you can't hear the tone behind what someone is saying, so it's just up to you to determine for yourself whether or not someone is being earnest. Ran was curious and seems to be generally interested in progressing the game, so I felt that a response was deserved. I appreciate openness in certain scenarios. Not always the best option for everyone, but it's always there for those who wanna take advantage of it.

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Fair enough.

Do you think the other players are being earnest so far ? What sort sort of question would not deserve a response in your opinion ?

I'm loling quite a bit at this thread. This is going to be a fun game.

/Confirm

Hmmm, Vitamin no comments on the pre-game? (Besides the lulzy stuff)

What do you think of Clover claiming like that? Thoughts on the Rake question?

@Clover: I want you to answer to me after Vitamin gets in with a reply to me. Why did you claim vt? What did my question to Loli have to do with you? Also, what did you think of Benji? (since you say you know him)

Rake: Thoughts on Clover?

Also,
-EST
-I've played two games, one I replaced out of D1.
-It's fun, and I'm half Italian, so a game like Mafia suits me.
-I remain genderless when online. "He", "she", and "it" are all proper ways to refer to me, though reference by name (VitaminC; also Orange, apparently) makes me happiest.

@Ran: I prefer to not let myself get carried away in the mishaps that some people may have this early in the game (seriously, it's not even D1 yet). I think that jumping on people right now isn't entirely fair. Just my opinion, though, and I can certainly see how hitting someone hard and early can make for a more productive day for town. I'll just let others do that.

Oh, and Vinyl, are you town?

otherwise that's all from me right now, g'night.

The game hasn't even started, so I ain't doing anything until it does.

And day one hasn't started either, so I'm not taking nor quoting any post in before D1 starts.

@Rake - In a sense that they're intent on their goals, but the more important question is, "what are those goals?" The thing that struck me about the whole "randomness" phase a while back was that perhaps those involved, conscious of it or not, were attempting to seem more likable to other players, thereby making their opinions seem more relevant and pro-town. You might like that sort of randomness, but successful analysis depends on objectivity.
Something not deserving of a response would be something that doesn't lead to any progress, which to me falls into two main categories: Irrelevant or baseless. Irrelevant would be like, "hey, don't you guys like my avatar?" Maybe not that silly, but, still. Baseless involves more along the lines that there's just so many possibilities of combinations early on. With a lack of solid information on a person's actions, you can't effectively predict that person's role and begin to base questions on it.

@Ran - Like I said earlier, I just want to be open about things. There's no guaranteed trust in mafia, but you have to have at least some assumption about the people you're around. I'd like to make it a bit easier on people. Also, your question was a roundabout way of finding information about me, so, who would be able to tell you about me better than me? Like Benji said, he usually gets lynched pretty early, and, I find #95 a tad suspicious, since he's usually more serious in any of our conversations and that seems trivial, but it's still just off, to me. Unless you have any follow-up questions, I'mma take a little break for now. n_n

Ah ok, I know that there isn't any established trust. But I don't think you telling me about yourself, gives you my trust or vice versa either. Especially when I didn't ask you the question. It just seems more like you are trying to make yourself look better, instead of 'garnering trust'. (Especially since I didn't even accuse you, I was only trying to see how others that know you, read you)

Do you see my pov?

What is your opinion on BadWolf, and Rake? Lolicains?

Thank you on your opinion on Benji. I can agree to him being slightly suspicious, since his question went in a circle. He kept his options open and didn't go anywhere with it.

And no, no follow up questions. Besides those last questions lol.

@Badwolf: Thoughts on Clover, and is she right on Benji being off character since you play with 'em too?

@Ran - Yeah, I do see how that'd be a logical way to look at things. My apologies for responding so defensively at the sight of my name. Like I said in #142, BadWolf seemed to be going on a bit much in the "randomness" phase for a boost in the likability department. Slightly suspicious, I think. Having my doubts with Rake as well. I feel like his initial accusations were more to divert attention than to gain fruitful leads, and his last statement in #105 seems odd. Wouldn't in-game alliances like that be inherently anti-town? So far, slightly leaning town towards Loli, I haven't seen any glaring scum tells. Everything, to me, points towards simple unfamiliarity with the game.

Okay, for real, time for a break. xD

Thoughts on Clover, and is she right on Benji being off character since you play with 'em too?

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I haven't played with Clover as much as Benji and J. Although as a whole I think she's jumping on people for the littlest mistake. I'm actually surprised she hasn't jumped on me for disliking Rake's question. Right now I don't like to go off of people's first posts. I mean I'm still trying to get a first feel for people's play and hopefully get a decent read on some scum. I would like D1 to actually start before I get into FoS-ing. people. It's a play-style that I don't like. People react differently under stress and it's possible that they don't give a correct read. Right now I would suggest just talking and seeing if any stupid scum slip-up and give something up. You also have to remember that we have 2 mafia factions so it might not be a bad thing to listen to everyone. Everyone should be scum hunting whether they are scum or not. Eh, those are just thoughts on the game itself. BACK TO THE TOPIC: I wouldn't put too much weight on what anyone says right now, even if they are an IC. Heck it's possible that they are scum and trying to lead us away with their evil-ness. SO all in all don't trust anyone and suspect everyone.

@Clover:Thank you, no further questions.

@Badwolf: I see. So are you saying you still don't have an opinion on Benji because he only posted once? He was viewing recently and didn't post. What do you think of that? Is it true that Benji is a bit more serious when you play with him? Also, Clover has posted more than once, so maybe you might have an opinion on her?

Now, you say you wouldn't want to FOS or put too much weight into what people say pre-game. Didn't you accuse Rake of asking a scum question, and Benji answering with a scum answer? Doesn't this contradict your 'theory' of not FOS'ing before the day starts? (FOS'ing is the same as saying "You are suspicious")

Also.

FOS means Finger of Suspicion. It's just like a vote, yet weaker. It doesn't show up on a vote count, which is why it is weaker than a vote. A vote is saying "I want to lynch you", so an FOS/HOS won't have as much pressure power as a vote would. (Where an FOS says "I am suspicious of you") Use this when you are already voting someone, or can't vote. Another format is the HOS, or Hand of Suspicion. I know J uses the HOS more, so hopefully he can go more into this when he gets around to posting. Btw, you are supposed to bold the FOS/HOS. : P

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Didn't you accuse Rake of asking a scum question, and Benji answering with a scum answer?

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I just said it, I'm not pursuing it right now. Right now I'm mostly just saying stuff that's on my mind... That's why you got the block of text.

So are you saying you still don't have an opinion on Benji because he only posted once?

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Clover has posted more than once, so maybe you might have an opinion on her?

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Like I've said I haven't really played with Clover all that much. Benji is..... Benji... He can only be defined by himself. Right now he's just being himself. If he is scum I'll be able to tell fairly easily unless he SEVERELY changes his play-style.

Like I've said before and will say again, J is the one I'm most worried about. He probably has the most exp. in the entire game and I've known him to change his play-style on a whim. He is hardest person to read I know.

Vinyl. said:

- I'm Asexual

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hmm .

Please tell me that you know the definition of the word.

Oh you're asexual vinyl? That's pretty cool. I think even if he didn't know what it was he could just google it lol unless he's lazy

I like to think of myself as Justinsexual~

Vinyl you are the most fascinating person I have ever come across in the wired.

I'm a man with many names, most of which are insulting, but you're probably the first person to call me the most fascinating, lol.

This is off the game feel though, so I'm just gonna stop posting at this point until D1 starts.

Whoops, just a wee bit late getting that pm...
Role confirmed
Ready to battle!

@Mod: requesting Day 1 starts, pretty please

Also, can someone confirm/deny Orbo being V/LA and tell us until when that would be? I'm sure he was around...

I've thought about it, and I figure the game starts as soon as you've confirmed and start posting; there's kind of a weird zone because other people may be in the thread etc. but yeah I think the game probably does start even before Day 1 starts. There's not a clear line between general chit-chat and getting to know you, and actually playing the game, so I suppose you have to take it all into account.
So yeah, I'm probably not going to talk about anything that happens pre-Day 1 but it has given me some slight reads and things to work from.

mightbebenjamin said:

Yeah Rake, why ask that question? hm?...wait, Ran, why you question his question? trying to throw around some suspicion? WHAT ARE YOU HIDING?????...wait, benjamin, why you question his question about question? WHAT AM I HIDING? TELL ME.

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I stated why I asked and now I wonder why your response was so obtuse and roundabout , leading to no particular conclusion.

@mightbebenjamin: Why do you think I asked it ?

Kary said:

@Rake:

Because I claimed town already and you didn't call me on early claiming.
But you did call Clover on it.

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Wait Kary...let me get this straight...your complaining...because I didn't call you on it ?
Seems a tad odd, was your claim false ? Were you expecting people to suffocate you with questions about your claim ? Did you expect to see some sort of overwhelming tide od suspicion arise from it ?

Lastly : It's my prerogative to question who I want in regards to what I want. Is there any particular reason you would have To question me about my questioning Clover ?

@Ran: What do you think, you'll notice no one else (as i recall ) questioned Kary about the claim and no one else took issue besides Kary with my comment on Clover's claim.

The only person to touch it so far was you and Clover and that was to direct a question to VitamenC and respond to my question respectively. (I.E Ran asked the question, Clover responded to mine).

Ranmaru said:

Rake: Thoughts on Clover?

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Clover has done a nice job trying earn trust by answering questions that weren't essentially asked. But she's answering your questions and seems to be keeping her answers open and honest. Her defensiveness could stem from any number of things and honestly since the game hasn't technically begun I'm not going to postulate infinite possibilities unless I see a point to it.

She seems willing to accept your POV and offer a explanation to her reactions.

She's already making some jumps on people she distrusts , even though previously she stated she felt this was "BS" pre game shenanigans. And is now starting to form an opinion on players through this stage.

@Clover: Any particular reason you have swapped from your belief of initial BS to starting to form an opinion and ideas based on this stage? And yes I know Ran stated that nothing was BS, so I mean besides that.

@Kary : What do you make of it ? New player reading an IC's advice and going back ?

Clover said:

@Ran - Yeah, I do see how that'd be a logical way to look at things. My apologies for responding so defensively at the sight of my name. Like I said in #142, BadWolf seemed to be going on a bit much in the "randomness" phase for a boost in the likability department. Slightly suspicious, I think. Having my doubts with Rake as well. I feel like his initial accusations were more to divert attention than to gain fruitful leads, and his last statement in #105 seems odd. Wouldn't in-game alliances like that be inherently anti-town? So far, slightly leaning town towards Loli, I haven't seen any glaring scum tells. Everything, to me, points towards simple unfamiliarity with the game.

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This post is essentially why I ask the question about Clovers apparent abandonment of her previous "BS" stage belief. And her suspicions seem a little open , whether or not this is due to the fact she still believes this is a BS stage or something else could be debated endlessly.

Also , why bring up my actions now, only after being prompted to ? If my initial accusations were so diverting , why not call me on it ? Regardless of a belief in the "BS" stage.

Plus her belief in the "BS" stage would mean she saw no issue in my apparent alliance building until someone prompted her for it. And she leaves the door open yet again, stating that she's having doubts on my slot but then questioning those same doubts as if to seek guidance on them.

Clover said:

Having my doubts with Rake as well. I feel like his initial accusations were more to divert attention than to gain fruitful leads, and his last statement in #105 seems odd. Wouldn't in-game alliances like that be inherently anti-town?

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@Clover: For clarifications sake: Did you or did you not take issue with my posts previously ? If so, which ones and why ? If not why only bring it up now ?

BadWolf28738 said:

I haven't played with Clover as much as Benji and J. Although as a whole I think she's jumping on people for the littlest mistake. I'm actually surprised she hasn't jumped on me for disliking Rake's question.

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Why would this surprise you @Badwulf? You have already stated you think she is jumping on people. Which people and why do you think she is jumping to them ?

Finally

UNVOTE

Will post more depending on if / when I work

BadWolf28738 said:

I just said it, I'm not pursuing it right now. Right now I'm mostly just saying stuff that's on my mind... That's why you got the block of text.




Like I've said I haven't really played with Clover all that much. Benji is..... Benji... He can only be defined by himself. Right now he's just being himself. If he is scum I'll be able to tell fairly easily unless he SEVERELY changes his play-style.

Like I've said before and will say again, J is the one I'm most worried about. He probably has the most exp. in the entire game and I've known him to change his play-style on a whim. He is hardest person to read I know.

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So for clarification, your leaving yourself open to swap opinions. Should the opportunity present itself ?

Interesting that you respond with "If Benji is scum " In response to Ran's question, seeing as he didn't ask if you could tell if Benji was scum or town. Only if he was being off character.

You also say Benji is being himself. This is very open and elaboration would be appreciated , are you saying he's playing as if he would were he a town role ? Are you saying that he's playing like he would if he was a scum role ?

For the sake of everyone involved here :

AT: mightbebenjamen: To the best of your ability , and without describing so much as to border on role claiming , describe yourself and your style of play.

Is what Badwulf saying accurate? Can you read Badwulf like a book as he claims to be able to in regards to you ?

Homeslice2332 said:

Whoops, just a wee bit late getting that pm...
Role confirmed
Ready to battle!

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Welcome to the game , young Padawan

Why would this surprise you @Badwulf?

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I'm surprised that she DIDN'T jump on me about disliking his question.

Which people and why do you think she is jumping to them ?

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I find #95 a tad suspicious, since he's usually more serious in any of our conversations and that seems trivial, but it's still just off, to me

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She jumps Benji on a post here. Like I've said before I'm a slow player, I like to got reads from everyone before voting for real. My vote on J doesn't really count all that much because of its RVS nature. Speaking of which..... Unvote. I think that was unneeded and I was just trolling really.

Confirming in thread before i go catch up in another game.

Ranmaru said:

Hi guys! I want to ease you in to the world of Mafia, so I want you guys to answer these questions!



-I'm in -5 Eastern time. Doesn't matter since I am really active. Expect me to be. I want you guys to be too.
-Plenty, here, and on MafiaScum.
-I'm playing this game to have fun and teach newbies how to play. : D
-My favorite drink is milk! I like smilies I am a child at heart.

ALSO NO EDITING.

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EST.
think this is around game 7 or 8 for me. can always improve though
to get a little better/cool setup.
I'm also a kid at heart and pretty darn lazy at times.

Orboknown said:

Confirming in thread before i go catch up in another game.



EST.
think this is around game 7 or 8 for me. can always improve though
to get a little better/cool setup.
I'm also a kid at heart and pretty darn lazy at times.

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ORBO : )

Hi

Anomandaris_Rake said:

Where`s a like button when you need it

UNVOTE

VOTE: Orbo

POST SOON MOD BRO!!

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chill out bro. work/life gets in the way.

J said:

Only waiting on Orange, Orbo, and Kary. Though isn't Orbo V/LA atm?

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was. is not now, but posting will be erratic/not much for awhile.

mightbebenjamin said:

Yeah Rake, why ask that question? hm?...wait, Ran, why you question his question? trying to throw around some suspicion? WHAT ARE YOU HIDING?????...wait, benjamin, why you question his question about question? WHAT AM I HIDING? TELL ME.

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WIFOM?

LoliLovesRain said:

Lol I'm not rl friends with clover I live in Florida xD Ive only met J once other than that I don't know any of you guys

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Florida is awesome. I should know, i used to live/grew up there

Anomandaris_Rake said:

ORBO : )

Hi

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hi?