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Newbie 23 // MGS3 Villains Mafia - Game Over

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
6,865
I suppose. I don't see reason to push this further mostly because you won't respond the way I want you to regardless of alignment, but I believe that you had an intention behind saying what you did, however you explained the jist of it.

Vote: Vinyl.
 

Monstmrna

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 27, 2012
Messages
1
Location
Illinois
I AM NOT MAFIA DO NOT LYNCHED PLAZA

OMGUS SO BAD LOOOOOLOLOLOLOLOLWLOWLOWLWLWPOLWOLOWLWLOWLOLWLOWLOLWOLWLOWL

vote:TyranitarPhantom

IS WORST AND LIAR MUST LYNCH ALL LIARS
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
13,297
Switch FC
SW-0654 7794 0698
Introduction

Ran here. Here are three simple tips you should follow for now:

  • Don't self vote. (there are really no points during a Newbie setup where this is a good idea, please avoid it however logical you may think it is, if you still do, hold those thoughts in notes until after the game finishes)
  • Don't lie. Especially if you are a Vanilla Townie Role. I strongly advise against lying if you have this role as usually it will only hurt town in the end. Just don't lie at all, easier that way for you. Power Roles too, don't lie please. I'll talk a little bit about claiming soon.
  • It's a game - have fun. My priority in mafia is to have fun, before winning. (I do want to win, yet my motivation to win is the fun)

RVS

We have started what is known as the RVS (random voting stage). We are in a low information period because scum already know who they are, and even have a rough idea of what power roles may or may not be in the game. It is now town's job to root them out. Because the start of the game leaves us with no information to start with generally the way to start is to begin voting and questioning other people to see if you can catch them doing something scummy (scummy actions being acts that a scum player is more likely to do then a town player).

STANDARDS

Soup mentioned his standards. I have standards, but I won't tell you them. You know what Town (The good guys) has to do, and what Mafia (The bad guys) want to do. You act accordingly to the role you were given, and I'll judge if your play is satisfactory. Noobytownscumguy: "But wait, ... I don't know. ; _ ;" That's fine, just check out my next post!

Questions for you all:

-What time zone are you in?
-How much mafia experience do you have, here or elsewhere?
-Why are you playing in this game?
-Say something no one knows about you! : D

OH AND DON'T YOU DARE EDIT YOUR POSTS, THAT'S NOT ALLOWED :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
13,297
Switch FC
SW-0654 7794 0698
Basic Theory Post

Premise

The premise of the game is simple. At it's core, there is a town, and usually there has been a killing during the night, which riles the town up and they start discussing, questioning, and even lynching to actually get some progress going in finding the criminals who did the killing. If there isn't a pre-game kill which would have riled them, then pretend there was, or just assume there is Mafia (Bad guys) in the town that we are looking for as Town (The Good guys).

Game wise, everyone will get their role sent to them privately, and is usually randomized, so everyone has an opportunity to randomly aqcuire a role they may like, or may not. :troll: The good guys (Town) won't know who the other Towns-Men are, because they only know their own alignment. The bad guys know who the other bad guys are (if there are more than one) because that way they can work together to discuss plans/strategies to hide from the town and destroy them.

Now then. The Town usually wake up, and discuss/vote/lynch during the day. Discussion involves who people find suspicious, and questioning those they find suspicious, and even voting their suspicions. Games start during the day, usually in normal setups. So expect to start during day. Then, after a lynch is set, night falls, and the Townies go to sleep, while Power Roles and The Mafia will be out at night. The Mafia stay up at night to kill the Townsmen, one by one. (One per night) Power roles stay up to find information about the whole town in general, depending on what they can do. Power roles in my opinion, should not lie just because they are a power role. Here is an example of how lying can go wrong:

Mafia Newbie 10:
#635
#638
#639

You shouldn't really read any further unless you want to confuse yourself. I'll give a summary. Basically, Vanderzant was town. I was the mafia. Third post shows Acrostic's reasoning for believing why Vanderzant may have been scum, yet, this lie cost Town the game. Why? Because Glyph came in, and put the final vote on Vanderzant giving scum the game. So please, don't lie as town. Even as a power role.

LYNCHING

First, let's count how much people there are. There are 9 people, which means the majority is half that number plus 1. So 9 alive, 5 to lynch. What "5 to lynch" means, is 5 individual votes on one person, to lynch. The sole purpose for Townies to be awake, is to find The Mafia (The bad guys), via lynching. That's the power of the Townies, while the power of The Mafia is killing one person per night. This is why, voting is important. Usually, you should use your votes on the people you believe are suspicious, and along with the reason you believe so. This way, other townies can be able to see your point of view with why you believe that person to be The Mafia, and may also vote along with you. Keep in mind that The Mafia may also vote along with you to have the sense of belonging to the town as well. This may be confusing, just remember that The Mafia's sole purpose is to survive, even with one sole member, so voting their own Mafia Member would benefit them in the long run if it would give them Town Credit.

Yadda yadda yadda, and blam. Somehow, you have 3 votes on scummymctowndude. The pressure is on him, and now he is working his butt off to defend himself. It is in town's best benefit to hear him out, because you may have thought his mindset was a Mafia Mindset, yet may have been a Town Mindset in which was thought in a different angle. Town should be able to explain their mindset's easily, since Town usually don't lie. They should always have reasons for why they do things. If they don't, (and are Town), then they should try better next time.

Now, someone else votes along (with reason) and puts 4/5 votes on that person. He is most likely getting lynched. He just got put at L-1, which means "1 vote to lynch". Just think of it as "Lynch -1" when Lynch = 5, and it's at 4. Uh oh. It's time to claim.

CLAIM and HAMMERS

What should one do at L-1? Claim. Should people hammer after someone claims? NO! You read the claim and think before doing so, same as you look both ways before crossing the street. You take the claim with caution. Claim your role, and flavor.

Townmcscumdude: I'm Willy Wonka, Town Inventer.
Situation: Townies think, and might let him live since he can be useful. Mafia might kill him at night, so would be ok to let him be and get another chance to lynch someone else.

Townmcscumdude: I'm **** Dastardly, Vanilla Townie.
Situation: It's A-Ok to go ahead with lynching him because he isn't a power role, may be lying about his role (since Vanilla Townie is easy to claim as Mafia) and Mafia now won't have a reason to guess at his role nor kill him. The 5th vote would be the HAMMER.

Hammering means that when you hammer (the final vote), you finalize the lynch, and it freezes up. This means there is NO going back on the lynch, it's done. This is why when you vote, you better be voting as if you are holding a trigger to that person's head, and are ready to shoot the gun. That's how serious you should be in voting, during the middle of the first day, and the end of it.

COUNTER CLAIMING

Townmcscumdude: I'm Alladin, Town Cop.
Situation: Ok, now this guy claims a role which should be confirmed town. What should town do? They wait for anyone else to Counter Claim this person, or have everyone say "Not Cop" to confirm that this person is a Legit Cop. Why should one wait for a Counter Claim? This person may be mafia trying to lure the Power Role out. And guess what? If this person is Mafia, and you are the Town Cop (or whatever role that person is claiming to be), that person is lying and YOU SHOULD COME OUT to grant him death. No hiding to get more confirmations of reads. Example of a person hiding as cop:

Bad Idea Mafia 4:
#1643

This is just the end game, yelling at the person who didn't counter claim scum. It was a scum win because of this. So remember, if someone claims YOUR ROLE, you come out. An eye for an eye. 1 for 1. 1 for 1's don't work in LoL, but here they do. Why? I'll talk about that in the next section.

ADVANTAGES OF TOWN AND MAFIA

Generally, The Town have the advantage in numbers, yet they don't know who the other town are. The advantage of the Mafia, is information. They are usually low in number in comparison to the Town, yet they know who the other Mafia are, so they can usually wiggle around the town. Example?

Think of Fire Emblem (Role Playing Strategy Game), and how Greil had him, Shinon, and Gatrie roam about in a three-man team, because they know smaller numbers = more room to run/manuever/take out men quickly. Shinon and Gatrie were pretty damn good at what they did, and Greil was a ****ing monster. This helped the rest of the Mercaniries take off some heat while in pursuit, because the greil pack would devastate the enemies while being in the shadows. This is sort of how the advantage for Mafia works, except their The Bad guys, and their enemies are The Town.

For town, it's easy to see. Since we don't know who other towns are, we'll have to lynch people without really knowing their alignment. We may be confident, yet we won't know until the mod posts the flip. This is why for town, it's good to have numbers, because we may have been very wrong, and for us to find mafia we may need extra chances, especially since we have low information at first. Eventually as the numbers get closer together, the town will be gaining more information and should be able to find The Mafia if they try hard enough, and are right enough. :cool:

So, why are 1 for 1's good? Because let's say with 9 people... a person claims your role? A 1 for 1 is very good because you only gave up 1 Town, to find 1 Mafia. (Instead of lynching alot of town before finding mafia). Bam, if you come out, this becomes 7 people with 1 mafia in it. (If there were only two, which usually it is). This keeps the Town up in numbers, while nerfing the Mafia to less numbers without the Mafia messing about in the town before it happened. Sure, you are town cop that wants to confirm more reads. You don't need to, you just essentially, got a guilty on scum when this happens. When you get a guilty, you SHOULD COME OUT THAT DAY AND WITH TIME to discuss. Just trust me bro, it's better that way. :smirk:

TL;DR

I think I covered everything that you should know for now. Remind me (or my bro, Soup) to cover end-game (not post-game) and Lylo/Mylo sometime during the day. Don't ask me if you haven't even read this post lolz. READ IT MOFO.

Things to remember:
  • This whole post covers what should happen during 1 Game Phase/Day. So this should happen every Game Phase/Day, until the very last Game Phase/Day. The Last Day is called Lylo, or rather, Lynch or Lose.
  • Don't lie as Town Vanilla or Town Power Role.
  • Come out as a Town Power Role when you have information to give to the town which can give them a certain chance of finding Mafia, or when someone claims your role. If you haven't gotten a guilty yet, just keep investigating, and come out on Day 3, it's the optimal move for cop. (Come out with two innocents, and yourself, equal's 3 confirmed town)
  • Don't claim a power role as Vanilla Town, you will get lynched. Just accept your fate. :mad:
  • Town have the advantage of numbers, Mafia have the advantage of information/intel.
  • The only chance Town has to get rid of Mafia, is through lynching.
  • Voting is important, treat it as a trigger of a gun. Should come along with reasons.
  • It should take a certain amount of votes to lynch; check the vote count/first game post to see how much it takes. In this game, it says "9 alive, 5 to lynch". Always check this number at the start of the day.
  • Claim at L-1, or "Lynch minus 1 (vote)". If power role, unvote, think, and decide the person's fate. Usually might live. If Vanilla Town role, usually go ahead and lynch.
  • The hammer (Final vote) freezes the lynch, which makes it finalized, meaning you can't go back from lynching. They are dead for good. This is why people must be careful when someone is at L-1. Good practice is unvoting if the wagon was going too fast, or if the person claimed a confirmed Power Role, or questionable Power Role.
  • Have fun, and try to learn via experience. Also follow my and Soup's example.

P.S. Soup~ If I forgot something, please cover it. Thanks ~
Your bro - Ran
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
13,297
Switch FC
SW-0654 7794 0698
Not Theory

Preview (and even Word) is your best friend. Especially when it comes to long posts.

@BSP: Where you at? When you going to post? Do you like RVS, yes/no? Why or Why not?
@LoliLovesRain: Will you follow me no matter what? Yes/no? Why or Why not?

Vote: Ran
Unvote
Vote: Rag
Unvote
Vote: Tyran
Vinyl, why did you vote three times and unvote?

Well Soup is scum. Damn.
If you thought so at the time, why didn't you vote?
Vote: Badwolf

I must be confused then.... I'll reconsider.
Clarify on how you got confused. Who did you actually think of? Which alignment was 'plittered'?

Vote: Tyranitar
Just following this random voting

:phone:
Am I to assume you used Random.org to vote Tyranitar? (If not, can you say why you chose him)
What do you think of Monstmrna voting Tyranitar in omgus?

I AM NOT MAFIA DO NOT LYNCHED PLAZA

OMGUS SO BAD LOOOOOLOLOLOLOLOLWLOWLOWLWLWPOLWOLOWLWLOWLOLWLOWLOLWOLWLOWL

vote:TyranitarPhantom

IS WORST AND LIAR MUST LYNCH ALL LIARS
Hold on. Monstmrna, what was the point in this joke post?

I understand that you're joking, but OMGUSing even in jest isn't a good thing
Can you clarify on your opinion of OMGUSING in jest? What is your opinion of Monstmrna after that fact? Would you vote him? Why or Why not?
 

#HBC | Kary

Fiend of Fire
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Messages
4,965
Location
그루그 화산
/ VOTECOUNT 1-1

LoliLovesRain (1); Vinyl.
TyranitarPhantom (2); STEM, Monstmrna
BadWolf28738 (1); LoliLovesRain
Monstmrna (1); TyranitarPhantom
STEM (0);
Vinyl. (1); Ragnarock
BSP (0);
Ranmaru (0);
Ragnarock (0);

Not Voting (3); Badwolf28738, BSP, Ranmaru.

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch!
Deadline is Monday, September 10th, at 7PM EST.


..................................................

You should bold the whole vote command for the vote to count, e.g. 'Vote: PlayerX' Thank you :)

Do NOT edit your posts! Thank you :)
 

BSP

Smash Legend
Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
10,246
Location
Louisiana
@BSP: Where you at? When you going to post? Do you like RVS, yes/no? Why or Why not?
I am right here

I'm posting right now

RVS is better than nothing, and it'll probably get us somewhere, so yes.

Why? If we just sit here, nothing happens and we lose.

Badwolf: Are you scum?

Vote: Ttar
 

BSP

Smash Legend
Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
10,246
Location
Louisiana
Questions for you all:

-What time zone are you in?

U.S. EST

-How much mafia experience do you have, here or elsewhere?

None elsewhere, 3rd newbie game here

-Why are you playing in this game?

I want to play mafia

-Say something no one knows about you! : D

I am Town
 

STEM

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
37
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
Questions for you all:

-What time zone are you in?
-How much mafia experience do you have, here or elsewhere?
-Why are you playing in this game?
-Say something no one knows about you! : D
-EST
-I've played a lot for the past 2-3 weeks on epicmafia.com.
-I enjoy mafia but it's hard to get a game going in real life so I wanted to try here.
-No one knows? Uh. My life if very uninteresting and suburban. This weirdest thing I do is math for fun. So....yeah.

Am I to assume you used Random.org to vote Tyranitar? (If not, can you say why you chose him)
What do you think of Monstmrna voting Tyranitar in omgus?
-I actually asked a friend to say a number 1 thru 8 (not 9 since i didn't include myself.) He said 2, and in the Votecount list, ttar is #2 so I voted for ttar.

Monstmrna's vote in omgus was evidently a joke, and I just kinda chuckled to myself and moved on. It wasn't particularly funny but I didn't really see it as a big deal. However, it seems that you guys are really serious about this game. I'm more used to the epicmafia culture, I guess, where people are less serious. I think we should pay no attention to this vote until any conflict rises between them.

Also, just want to say that I don't like the day start nor the RVS. Then again, I'm used to night start with a cop and doc, so this may be interesting. It's just a first impression.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
6,865
Good covering of the basics Ran, I liked that post but I would prefer that you get down to the grit of things sooner or later. I'm busy right now so I don't have much time to give the input I want to.
 

LoliLovesRain

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
3,311
Location
Miami,FL
Questions for you all:

-What time zone are you in?
-How much mafia experience do you have, here or elsewhere?
-Why are you playing in this game?
-Say something no one knows about you! : D

OH AND DON'T YOU DARE EDIT YOUR POSTS, THAT'S NOT ALLOWED :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
-EST
- Errr only ever on here but *thinks* 2 newbies complete and 1 normal complete (I don't count Zen's deadpool one)
- I like playing with everyone and am slightly intimidated by going out into the normal playing fields unless J is there hosting it or something.
- uhh..no one? The only things no one knows about me would be private and very personal :x

@LoliLovesRain: Will you follow me no matter what? Yes/no? Why or Why not?
Follow you no matter not? Probably not seeing as how you may not have the same thoughts as I do. I don't want to whole heartedly put my vote in someone else's hands but I will listen to what you have to say.
 

Tyranitarphantom

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
187
Location
Lexington, Kentucky
NNID
SwitcherooTtar
Can you clarify on your opinion of OMGUSING in jest? What is your opinion of Monstmrna after that fact? Would you vote him? Why or Why not?
OMGUSing is a typical panic button. It's never a good thing to do. I don't like seeing people do it, but that entire post was a joke
I hope
so I wouldn't read too much into it.


Vote: Ttar
'Sup with that?
 

BSP

Smash Legend
Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
10,246
Location
Louisiana
I'm serious.

No townie would put you at L-1 or Hammer you this fast. If they did, theyre dead tomorrow.

I wouldn't leave my vote on you if someone put you at L-1.

So why are you do worried?

:phone:
 

Tyranitarphantom

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
187
Location
Lexington, Kentucky
NNID
SwitcherooTtar
Because I want to win. Having random votes stacked on me (by people who are probably my allies) is not the way to do it.

Remember the wagon against you in the last game? Remember how dangerously close you were to getting lynched for no reason? Remember how we mislynched twice because of that?

Let's not have that happen again.
 

Monstmrna

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 27, 2012
Messages
1
Location
Illinois
-What time zone are you in?
-How much mafia experience do you have, here or elsewhere?
-Why are you playing in this game?
-Say something no one knows about you! : D
I skimmed the topic, so obviously I missed this until I re-read and saw someone else answering them

US Central

I've got about... 10 or so games under my belt, including the two newbies on this site.

Mafia is the best thing ever and I will sign up for any game, anywhere, anytime

I'm actually a dog :O
 

STEM

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
37
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
I think ttar had the right to be annoyed. Who knows if someone, town or mafia, would hammer? This is a newbie game and someone may lynch out of suspicion.

:phone:
 

BSP

Smash Legend
Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
10,246
Location
Louisiana
I want your reasoning as to why you voted for me. If you don't have a good reason, then you're scum trying to jump on an "easy" target.
See the mega man game if you think I'd be that stupid as scum

Reason for voting you: newbie game, so maybe we'd catch some newb scum who just joined the wagon for whatever reason.

Also, I'm going to have faith town's ability to defend their slots through pressure. The MLP train wreck also had its share of inactivity.

Vinyl, there was a whole minute between your L-1 post and your unvote post. There is no pro town reason to put anyone at L-1 that quickly.

:phone:
 

BSP

Smash Legend
Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
10,246
Location
Louisiana
This is no time to joke around. Are you going to joke in scum hunting too?

unvote

Vote Vinyl


:phone:
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
6,865
There is a couple of things I want to point out and do before I continue further, mostly covering whatever Ranmaru missed or correcting it.

Ranmaru's statement about lying about your power role is a bit preference here, lying is a pretense in a game revolved around deception and while some things can go wrong if you lie, as long as you have a reason behind it then it doesn't matter. I'll give you my own example. In Newbie 20 (MLP), I was the Town Reporter. On n2, I investigated Badwolf, who appeared to not be home that night. In order to test my claim and my suspicision, I lied about my role and claimed to be a Town Cop with a guilty on him. Badwolf exclaimed to only be a Vanilla Townie. This is pure contradictory to my results and in the end left me with no doubt on the slot, If I went in there and claimed straight forward or let Badwolf gain the upper hand, he could have just claimed some sort of visiting role, but instead I forced him into a situation that was in my favor. Even if Badwolf happened to be town and a visiting role, I had a full-proof and a detrimental read out of it, I simply set it up to play in my favor. This is just one example, and I'm not saying you should be like me and always go for these things, which we in the mafia world call gambits. Gambits are initially doing something with false pretenses usually hoping to garner a reaction. You should not rely on gambits. Better players are more aware of a Gambit and they will not fall easily to them, and not only that, but your slot will be under heavy fire dependent on what you do, it is always better to have a plan and to think things through instead of acting impulsive.

[collapse="A couple of Examples"]

1. DayVig Gambit

This is used a lot by players who are simply looking for a reaction, it's simple, a player claims to have a DayVig abilities (usually in a closed setup because it can't be proven otherwise) and gives a player an ultimatum or creates a fake action.

Player A said:
Shoot: Player B
Player B said:
WTF! I WAS TOWN!!!
2. Role Gambit

Basically the same thing as the DayVig gambit, but not in the same sense. Role Gambits include Lying about your role, Stating a false report, or claiming to have a fake ability. Role Gambits are completely shoddy and please do not rely on them.[/collapse]

If there any other topics that you would like addressed please let me know.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
6,865
Ranmaru said:
If you thought so at the time, why didn't you vote?
Vote: Badwolf
Did you completely skip the part where Badwolf explained his actions? This vote seems off, and I know you're not one to miss attention to detail.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
6,865
One thing I need to also lay out here is that while Ranmaru's post about explanation and explaining things for the newbies and how things go down is good, doesn't mean that you should completely follow it. I'm not saying it's bad, or that it isn't something to consider, I'm just saying that every player has a different way of playing this game and some things will not be as important as others. The statements about claims and what you should do is fairly general, but everyone should have their own reasoning to handling these things and others, I don't want you to feel pressured to play perfectly, I don't care if you mess up, I just care if you're here to experience it and learn from your mistakes. This isn't exclusive to just mistakes though, if you feel you're consistent about certain things or stronger in other aspects than others, then you know what to improve on and what doesn't need as much improvement.

I want you to play this game how you want to play it, and the best way to get better at mafia is understanding yourself, but I also have my own expectations and I feel like I've covered that enough for people to get my point. There is a lot more I could talk about, and I could bore you with a whole wall of game theory, but I personally believe experiencing these things yourself is more important than what I could ever tell you.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
6,865
BSP said:
Badwolf: Are you scum?
What is your purpose of acting such a direct question when the answer you get will be completely useless? A scum will not tell you he is scum. Unless you're looking for some sort of reaction behind this I see no reason for it.
 
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