The Top 5 Brawl [ US | CAN | MEX]

I'm just not sure how I'm supposed to get WC results to judge top 5 if WC doesn't have any of their results.

Cassio, shut up and get the results if you want west coast included,my god

the last 3 tournaments i entered i did well but, only 1 had results =/

vato_break said:

the last 3 tournaments i entered i did well but, only 1 had results =/

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Tbh, I feel very sorry for the WC players. The only ones to blame are your TOs. It's really not that hard to copy and paste. Or at least let someone else do it.

one of those tournaments i won and the other one i got 3rd place. though i don't think the AZ tournament i entered was accounted for but, i got 3rd at that one as well.

I'm from a nothing region and even I'll upload results, like **** man, wtf, it takes absolutely no time at all to copy/paste.

Vato, if you can get a hold of any your results (and a bracket pls :3) please show them to me.

Only two results I have for you currently are:

Safra Donates to Negroes - 4th of 33 (6/2/12) ***
Beat: Yoshiken, SK92, Silly Kyle, KiraFlax
Lost to: Tyrant, Rich Brown

The Gauntlet - 5th of 31 (4/28/12)
Beat: Awex, A.C., Zane, Hall
Lost to: TKD, Havok

A lot of the other have like 5-10. You're one of the stronger players and I wanna make your results more accurate. Cassio, if it's too much trouble to get everybody's can you at least get Vato's for me? Thanks.

Welp, better start telling TOs to take their 10 minutes and upload results after tournies then. If they don't want to take the time to upload the brackets why should anyone take the time to chase them around to constantly nag them for who beat who instead. Having the bracket makes everything easier, and is not a difficult process. I doubt that you know the wins and losses of everyone on the WC without having any sort of a bracket or results that are in any way visible, I could be wrong but it's a hunch. If they don't care about putting up the brackets, fine, then stop caring that ____ isn't on a list.

@M2k vs Nairo. To my understanding, M2k having a possible positive record vs Vinnie, and being 1-0 vs Nietono while being like...0-4 vs Dabuz is enough to outweigh all of what Nairo has done this year? Come on now it's a bit silly in my opinion for the fanboyism of M2k, and I like M2k. Especially if you're using Nairo's losses against him, use M2k's and I think it goes more in Nairo's favor.

That's exactly the issue with Mexican Results.
They just aren't posted anywhere, so people don't know what's happening over here.

I think people gotta start posting results. Your tournament is basically useless and unimportant otherwise.

Who needs money when ya got results?

I think you mean the other way around.

He's obviously being sarcastic =P useless and unimportant for data*

Mekos said:

Oh shoot!! The prince has spoken!! Game of thrones in the house!!!

Dang he coming at all low tiers and mid tiers too!!

Low tiers and mid tiers unite!! It's time to kill Nairo!!!(in tourney of course).
Lets go!!!!

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LOL i mean i could lose to idk whatever character down there but it wouldnt be often like others XD but thats a good thing you were probably the closest of beating me outa that COME AT ME :3

raptor, I sent u a message

Kawaii Poyo said:

M2K actually won two tourneys, the Xanadu where he double eliminated ESAM and Collison 3.

Their record this year IS 3-2 M2K, M2K beat him at Collision 3, Nairo beat him at Dissention, the week before SKTAR (can't remember the tourney name ^^; ) M2K beat Nairo, then they went 1-1 yesterday, so it is 3-2 M2K.

Also, I feel like M2K eliminating Nietono at SRT isn't considered enough, yeah I know Nairo beat him in Winner's at Apex, but that set was 2-1 as well as Nietono beating him in Loser's/outplacing him. M2K 2-0'd him at SRT in Loser's so he eliminated and outplaced Nietono, which is more impressive than what Nairo did vs Nietono.

I think Vinnie is positive vs Nairo this year (but not sure) and as for M2K... Vinnie beat him at that one tourney M2K got 5th at, then M2K beat him twice at Collision 3 but Vinnie did take one set of GFs (so they're 2-2 then), then M2K beat Vinnie at CoT6 then Vinnie double eliminated him the week before SKTAR, then M2K beat him yesterday, so I THINK M2K and Vinnie are even at 4-4 this year if I'm not forgetting any sets. Not sure about Nairo's record vs Vinnie, but I think Vinnie is positive.

Speaking of CoT6, M2K lost to Dabuz twice there, so Nairo avoided him there, but with M2K seeming to have learned the Olimar MU in Japan beating Nietono and double JV 3-stocking Rich Brown at ReveLAtions, I see M2K ****** Dabuz next time they play. Can't say anything positive in terms of M2K at SKTAR against Nairo, yeah, Nairo beats him there, but overall I believe M2K is the better MK.

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yet again your thinking of just records of like 3 players? idiot if that were the case then ally should be #1 mk cause he has a perfect record vs me according to your logic lmao like i said whos fault is it that m2k was trash vs olimar? not me i coached him vs dabuz BOTH sets he lost to him and he didnt listen rly at all then when i played i 3stocked him g1 doing pretty much all i told him too bad it doesnt matter if he 2-0 nietono and i 2-1 nietono it matters that you won the set i could of won with 300% last stock last game still won doesnt matter how close and i took 2 games off otori while he took 0 if your gonna be counting games too~ i could say way more but too lazy to unless you respond with more stupidity

Zano said:

I think you mean the other way around.

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I guess it depends on who you are, but money can come from means other than the game. Results, though, are unique to your brawl performance.

I thought it was pretty obvious I was joking and making fun of Raptor.

Dont make me rest you again.

2 good gaming (3rd/~20) - last week
Wins: panda(pit), pitbull(lucario), and mike (Marth)
Lost: Mike (MK/Marth), Tyrant

Inland Empire (1st/~30) - 1 month ago
Win: Cpu1(MK), sizcor(link), soren(MK), jebus(diddy), paper(GW), truth (pika), pitbull(lucario) x2
Lost: Soren(MK)
He did use some MK this tournament, but mostly diddy.

Anime Expo (2nd/~100?) - 2 months ago
Wins (from smash community): Paper
Lost: Tyrant x 2

Safra Donates to Negroes - 4th of 33 (6/2/12) ***
Beat: Yoshiken, SK92, Silly Kyle, KiraFlax
Lost to: Tyrant, Rich Brown

The Gauntlet - 5th of 31 (4/28/12)
Beat: Awex, A.C., Zane, Hall
Lost to: TKD, Havok

I think another issue is a lot of WC's non-top players arent accurately compared. This list has no system but I wasnt sure how else to do this so I just checked with some other peeps. For vato's wins:

S: Mike
A: Silly Kyle, SK92, A.C.
B+: Jebus, Pitbull x 3, Kiraflax
B: Soren, Paper x 2, CPU1, Hall
C: Scizor, Panda, Yoshiken, Awex, Truth
D: Zane
others

D tier are tournament regulars who know the game but dont usually do well. C-tier are skilled players who always make it through pools or can go a bit into bracket but reliably get knocked out by notable players (B+ and higher). B-tier are lower PR/former PR/upcoming PR who constantly knock each other out to vie for top spots but always lose to S tiers. B+ are the same but they can cause big upsets on occasion and become notable/recognizable. A and S should be self explanatory by the names in them.

Because I know Ill get some grief on where I put SK, his biggest biggest issue atm is that he doesnt attend things, but it doesnt take away from the win vato has especially back then. Not saying SK should be top 5 since he doesnt make it to big events, but it is a significant win. When I asked larry recently hed said SKs probably below shugo and above pelca in skill.

Another note, Vato is extremely consistent.
Loses:
S+: Tyrant x 4
S: Rich Brown, Mike, Havok, TKD
B: Soren
thats it.

I didn't go MK. He went MK on me. Pretty sure he went MK against Soren (when he won) and in some matches against pitbull too

Dakpo for top Luigi I'm sold

Yeah I was informed that he went MK for a lot of those. =o

Yeah he went some MK that tournament so i made sure to put it, I have to double check on the ones jebus said with some peeps. As far as the bracket wins and loses tho (since that was the last issue) it should all be accurate.

Think Cassio's ranking on skill level of not very notable players is good, though there should be some consensus on where they go or else it could be easily biased.

Unless there is an empty SS tier, I don't think Mikehaze should be in S tier.

I put tyrant in S+, lol. SS would probably be like, Ally/ESAM/Anti etc. Rich is probably S+ too, but I thought people would give me grief cause of revelations even though he had a legit john, but i dont think its that important.

Lol @ me in D Tier. I've beaten Zekey/Paper/Pitbull/MrConcon/Shiro. I don't think anyone in C tier outside of Awex/Panda(maybe?) has beaten Zekey and Pitbull. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, though. Haven't looked at results since AZ's regional.

C-tier are skilled players who always make it through pools or can go a bit into bracket but reliably get knocked out by notable players

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-Has consistently made it out of pools since 2010-

Not sure if that warrants me as D tier but ooookay, Socal.

The **** am I doing in a Socal rankings post anyways? I've been in Texas since June & the last tournament I've entered in Socal as 7 months ago.

Zane > Truth, fosho.

i went diddy on everyone except jebus and pitbull(minus one set)

I am a top 5 . Nickriddle's doesn't klaw as good as mine.

Wu1 @ N00B.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think Vato lost to Soren when he used Diddy and beat Soren when he went Metaknight.

Sorry Zane I had to include you bc you played vato. Im aware you didnt get to go much during that time, that was the biggest reason, but its not really that big a deal anyways. Id change it if this wasnt specifically for vato during a specific time period.

Also confirming that vato used MK vs Jebus, 1 set vs pitbull, and 1 set vs Soren (win)

Hey guys, I just got the best idea ever! let's add europe to this list as well :D?

Nairo said:

yet again your thinking of just records of like 3 players? idiot if that were the case then ally should be #1 mk cause he has a perfect record vs me according to your logic lmao like i said whos fault is it that m2k was trash vs olimar? not me i coached him vs dabuz BOTH sets he lost to him and he didnt listen rly at all then when i played i 3stocked him g1 doing pretty much all i told him too bad it doesnt matter if he 2-0 nietono and i 2-1 nietono it matters that you won the set i could of won with 300% last stock last game still won doesnt matter how close and i took 2 games off otori while he took 0 if your gonna be counting games too~ i could say way more but too lazy to unless you respond with more stupidity

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Everything you say is true, but M2K hasn't really done bad at any tourney except SKTAR honestly. Well, I'mma try something in terms of placings of you/M2K when you're both at the same tourney instead of looking at individual records.


To my knowledge (correct me if I'm missing any tourneys)

Collision 3
Mew2King: 1st
Nairo: 3rd

CoT6
Nairo: 1st
Mew2King: 3rd

Dissention
Nairo: 2nd
Mew2King: 3rd

Collision 4
Mew2King: 2nd
Nairo: 3rd

SKTAR
Nairo: 1st
Mew2King: 9th

Collision 5
Mew2King: 2nd
Nairo: 3rd


In terms of tourneys you've both attended, you've both outplaced each other at 3 events each making it even. M2K beats you in the head-to-head record but you have 1st at SKTAR (the biggest tourney) whereas M2K got 9th at that which can be held against him, but him being 3-2 vs you can also be held against you. I'd say I guess it's okay for you to still be first now because you won SKTAR and CoT6 which are the biggest tourneys out of those two which M2K was still at, but because he's positive vs you and even vs Vinnie, I think if he outplaces you at one more tourney, that'll make him positive in tourneys 4-3 with you, he should undisputedly get his spot back. You gave good reasonings and when I did look at the tourneys you're 3-3 in outplacing each other and you won the bigger tourneys of those listed as well, so I'll stop posting here for now and let you keep your first spot for a little longer.

But don't forget, the king IS going to take back his throne.

Sidenote: ADHD proved he's still **** after yesterday beating Vinnie (although only cause he dropped grabs), Nairo and M2K (those sets were legit) so ADHD for first best Diddy again. :D

EDIT: My dumb *** forgot about Apex since it was at the very beginning of the year, so yeah, Nairo is 4-3 with M2K in terms of outplacing him at tourneys they both attended this year.

But I think if M2K beats (without losing a set either, so no 1-1 like yesterday) AND outplaces Nairo at the next tourney they both attend, I think that should be enough to get M2K back as 1st best MK even if they are 4-4 in tourneys after that cause M2K will have a really positive record vs Nairo this year (plus Nairo always gets top 3, so if M2K beats and outplaces him he'll be getting at least 2nd at that tourney as well).

Who cares, Gnes quit. No discussion to be had there.

Update , eff those no skill top tiers.

Nairo said:

LOL i mean i could lose to idk whatever character down there but it wouldnt be often like others XD but thats a good thing you were probably the closest of beating me outa that COME AT ME :3

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Yea our matches are always SS4 battles! Alright I accept your challenge!!

I'll defeat you Nairo!! Prepare youself...I'm bringing maximum power!!

Mr-R said:

Hey guys, I just got the best idea ever! let's add europe to this list as well :D?

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Let's add Japan as well, I have Falco's top 5 list here

1 SLS
2 Masha
3 DEHF
4 Shugo
5 Blub

Discuss!!!!

I think there are a lot of style-counters. Dabuz i think counters my style since he did the best vs me but he's widely considered 3rd or 4th best olimar against the other players. I beat nietono most of the games in Japan, and solidly won in tourney. I beat Brood 2-3-1 stock in our last session (end of day 2 at SRT), and won almost 2/3rds of the game for the hour we played before then. I jv 3d rich both tourney matches at Revelations, and then at his house, I went about 90-10 my favor in MK vs Olimar friendlies for about 4 hours of playing. (I definitely think he's not as good as he was before since his car broke and he's focusing on music like he should be now, but I feel with the amount i improved, it wouldn't matter and I can take on ANY olimar as long as I play the same as I did at revelations. I don't know if I'll be that good at it later, since that was probably my prime in the MU, but that is what happened.) I lost to Otori, but I beat Rain almost 2/3rds of the games we played, for 3 different 1-hour-each sessions of playing, including SRT day 3. I definitely think there are style-counters in smash, although they can be overcome by large skill gaps, there are definitely counters imo (vinnie agrees with me also).

I feel i had a hard bracket at SRT (for me anyway). You can say all you want about me losing to pit, but i still **** all the pits here, and i think earth just counters me, since I do better vs everyone else (literally) than he does, but I could not beat him in the head to head against him. I had to fight him TWICE which I am really upset about, since I think I could have beaten 9b had I won that set and I tried my hardest I definitely think I could do it. I beat the peach that beat vinnie, but he didn't have to fight him again, so he got to finals with 9b because of the way brackets worked. That's an example of bracket luck, which is why it's not the ONLY thing that should be considered imo. I think at SRT, with rain's bracket (miekneko), i could have won the tourney, but i had otori round 3, where winner fights 9b and loser fights nietono. Even though Rain beats Otori, i do MUCH better vs Rain. That is one of the hardest brackets i could have gotten in my opinion. I wish i got to fight mikeneko or rain instead of that. In the hours i played both of them i won nearly 2/3rds of the games vs each of them in total on average. I've played tons and tons of top japan smashers, and the only ones with a positive record vs me in the friendlies or bracket is otori/earth/masha (he's only famous cuz he beat me but tbh i was WAY TOO ANGRY to play after that first game, i wanted to forfeit the rest of the set because I was so angry at that time, but i truely do believe DEHF is better if only very slightly) i DO feel I am easily good enough to win a tourney like SRT, but I just didn't that time. I feel a lot of the time my biggest weakness is my lack of faith in myself (which i understand is my fault). I never really had a lot of confidence in myself, and I tend to overthink things. For some reason I doubt my ability a lot, and I feel this is my weakness, but idk for how much longer since I don't care as much as before (which may work against me but this may also now work for me? maybe.)

How badly you beat someone should definitely be considered in my opinion. Almost all of my losses were really close, but I feel i defeat myself a lot because i overthink things or get frustrated and not want to play anymore. Trela was really close (vs both of us actually, you just barely won a crucial game while i barely lost), which could have changed easily, and my loss to DEHF at Revelations first set was 2-1 last stock 120. Had I not lost to him, i feel there was a high chance i could have won the tourney. It couldn't have been any closer when i lost so im disappointed in myself for that. I've beaten esam solidly the 2 sets this year, and he's beaten anti/ally this year, so that's solid. I've always won md/va, and the only tourney that WASN't tristate I have lost was actually at revelations iirc, and that was pretty even overall. 2-1, 3-0, 0-3. I 3-0d DEHF back in first set of GF though (meaning im definitely capable), and it's right after he 3-0d Tyrant, so he was playing pretty well then. I also beat fatal 2-0 (one game was close, the other was nearly 3 stock) the week after fatal barely beat nairo and barely lost to anti in the end of the tourney at that Revelations tourney, which had dehf not beat me in a close early set, i think i could have taken (i had to go through pretty much ALL of west coast's best players in order to get to the finals). As far as Japan snakes go, I've 3 stocked all of the japan snakes at least once each, usually a few times each, among the sessions i had with them (only about 10 games each on average). Shu thinks im the hardest he ever played. I bet if I went to revelations and LOST, everyone would be talking about how i lost to that player, but no one cares if i beat 5 other pros. Just if i lose.

I feel I did good this weekend because I just... didn't care. It's impossible to choke when I don't care. I managed to 2-0 and 3-0 everyone i played (i did well vs bizkit/nairo/adhd/nakat/vinnie) except vs nairo he won 2-1 last stock 100 altho i came back very strong next set, and vs adhd, i managed to take a close set after he beat vinnie and nairo (also game 5), and I feel if i did not let myself get footstooled at 3% on game 9 of GF, i could have won that tourney. I personally feel my weakness in smash is mainly things I am not used to. I don't always learn immediately, but I can learn over time when I'm exposed to things. I think this is why I am good at MUs I get practice in because there are many ideas I have for different situations, but I do not get to experiment to learn them, so I have to experiment unfamiliar situations in tourney matches, which can sometimes work, but often works against me. High tiers/mid tiers (lucario/wolf/pit for example) which i rarely get high-level exposure to are pretty hard for me since i am unfamiliar with many situations, while I think I am pretty good vs top tiers since I'm used to what they can do more than the other characters and I eventually develop my own ways to counter common situations. The reasons a "rankings" is often bad is because there are a LOT of factors, so unless you have concrete rules about them (like results ONLY, or you must be at THIS many tourneys and then some formula or something), then it's heavily based off random opinions and a lot of the time, bias as well. Last thing, i kind of feel people care about my losses more than my wins. I beat, actually I 3 stock a LOT of players, including most of japan's best players, multiple times each usually among the ~15-20 games i play with each of them, but all I hear from everybody is making fun of me for losing to earth's pit (even though 95% of you would lose to him too), without counting anything else, and I feel it's because I am for some reason disliked compared to the other players. Maybe it's because I have won a lot in the past, maybe it's because people don't like me because of BS rumors that spread around about me and people believe, i don't know, but that is how i honestly feel about that.