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The Greatest Falcon Thread Ever Made...... Ever, Ever.

D1

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g-regulate said:
if you would like to know the outcome of another falcon ditto, i beat your buddy rayzorium 2-0, ending it with a falcon punch.
<3 rayz :)

I witnessed that Falcon Punch myself that sh** was amazing only G-reg folks...only G-reg.


IF ITS NOT G-REG ITS DONE! (w/ the exception of Isai of course)
 

Pery G45

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
47
i like doing the flawless triple jab prefectly, because i pwn.
PS gr-red i'm gonna own your falcon with my falcon, noob
jk about the noob
and jk about the owning
<3 u
-Perry :)
 

The Great Marth

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g-regulate said:
or perhaps the fact that we live in different parts of the country, and barely travel? maybe that too.

but if you would like to know the outcome of another falcon ditto, i beat your buddy rayzorium 2-0, ending it with a falcon punch.
<3 rayz :)

You beat rayz?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

ok, im sorry. your the champ.
 

McD

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THIS TOPIC BETTER BE STICKIES...Its really good, I am now practicing my grab combos, and watching some G-Reg vids, SO SICK!
 

Sars_Pirate

Smash Lord
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Speaking of which, the world needs more G-reg vids (or Arlington vids in general).
 

McD

Smash Journeyman
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I just tried the G-reg combo, it kicks serious ***
 

g-regulate

Smash Hero
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any vid ever seen of me is probably in the range of 4-6 months old
if you want the most recent vids, bug TheCape, i know he recorded us playing about a month ago!
but yea im at work and so to burn time i might as well make a super long post.

edgeguarding! theres many aspects of edgeguarding, so ill just go over some basic stuff. the main thing to know is be smart! take advantage of falcons speed, and abuse your opponents second jump and up+b.
when knocking your opponent a good distance off the ledge, its good to edgehog, while continuously dropping off and on, to keep a constant invincibility. this forces characters like fox/falco/marth/shiek/most everyone to have to go for the stage, putting them at a huge disadvantage. this of course, opens up for ledgehop->knee (backwards knee if you can rock it:)). at high %, this proves deadly. if theyre too far for the knee, just run up and grab, or ledge hop on the ledge, and then shuffl a knee.

on marth, keep an eye on how he is recovering. if you think hes being lazy, a simple bair will wreck him, especially after he has used his jump. if marth rocks the over+b at the elevation of the ledge, run and drop off the stage down, to double jump uair, and just flick him away like a booger.

on fox/falco, keep in mind that if they are not at a position below the ledge, a well-timed bair will outprioritize their up+b, making for low % kills if youre aim is right (take all the low % kills you can get on fox/falco). ledgehop bair works well if they are close enough to the stage, hitting them while they charging their up+b. at high %, if they even slightly miss the sweetspot, a balls kick is also a safe idea (up tilt). dtilt to knee also works at higher % :)

on shiek, get on the ledge!! do NOT let that ***** grab the ledge. MAKE her teleport on the stage. this is an open knee/grab. other than that, edgeguarding shiek is pretty tough, and you probably shouldnt mess with shiek too much near the edge, its a bad position for douglas j. try and keep the combos ending with a knee, and keep the ledge covered.

on peach, ugh, theres really no gay killing on peach. "going out" to get her can often be risky, as she WILL kill you if you get stuck out there and she makes it back. dair spike to edgeguard can be a surprise, but dont make it commonplace. i usually just try and hit a random knee, and if she gets back on the stage, just try grab->knee.
*pound*
 

audreyh

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
615
i agree with dice. the sheik doesn't even hafta try, if you mess up suddenly ur in some f-tilt dash attack combo and then u get faired...

you guys ever noticed that after a few seconds of sheilding sheiks dash attack goes under ur sheild =(((((
 

Sarg_Celery

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
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Yeah my best friend's main is a Sheik, and its so hard for me to touch him. Sheik's dash a is so easy to get hit by and is a perfect combo starter...
 

SynikaL

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I really don't think that Sheik is as bad of a matchup for Falcon as people suggest. I counter pick Sheiks using Falcon. Captain can combo her to pieces and gets consistant damage when he grabs her. If you're avoiding her grab (which isn't impossible, considering it's Falcon) and DIing properly, Falcon has more than small chance of winning.

Basically, I think Falcon wins on the stage and Sheik wins off the stage. The fact that Sheik can combo Falcon isn't enough to convince me this is a bad matchup for him. If it's not zero to death/edgeguard, it's not an absolute advantage.


-Syn
 

g-regulate

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i agree, syn. shiek is a tricky matchup though, imo, because it kinda depends on the shieks style. while shiek IS easier to combo than others, it doesnt take away the fact that shiek has arguably the best combos in the game, with like no lag time on any of her moves (lol). the match turns into a "who can **** who first" kind of match. i dont think falcon wins on the stage, more as i think that his BEST combos on shiek are better than shieks (ending with knee!), where as shiek has better combos overall due to the variety of available moves that work on falcon at any given time. but yea, off the stage, it takes a miracle to recover on a smart shiek.
 

Dice

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What about tips for fighting a falco? The lasers really screw me up (especially on FD) and the shine/dair combos rack up the percent so quickly (0-60%). And please don't say just grab and tech chase with grabs/stomps because if it were that easy than falcon wouldn't have a problem lol.

And g-reg, thanks a lot for making this thread and giving out tips/advice on matchups and stuff.
 

SynikaL

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Dice said:
What about tips for fighting a falco? The lasers really screw me up (especially on FD) and the shine/dair combos rack up the percent so quickly (0-60%). And please don't say just grab and tech chase with grabs/stomps because if it were that easy than falcon wouldn't have a problem lol.

And g-reg, thanks a lot for making this thread and giving out tips/advice on matchups and stuff.

This is Falcon's hardest matchup IMO, but I'm a strange guy...I main Marth and I can't beat Falcos with Marth for ish, but my Falcon has a decent record vs. Falco. I counter pick Falcos with my Falcon.

One of the things that make me feel more comfy in this matchup with CF than other characters is Falcon's speed and how it alleviates the laser lockdown, relative to other characters. The lasers are still major, but Falcon's aerial agility and general speed give me more room to work in regards to getting to him.

Being able to read techs is Falcon's bread n' butter in this matchup, that's not gonna change but as you gain more experience this gets easier. Up throw and Down throw are your most important throws and both tend to facillitate certain tech habits. Because of this, you're going to want to mix them up a lot.

Up throw, is somewhat slow in its execution and keeps Falco airborne long enough to give your opponent time to think about what direction they want to tech in. If your mindgames are good, you can use this throw knowing they will be thinking clearly when they hit the ground (so for i.e. if you used this throw before and punished the Falco for teching nuetral with a stomp, chances are good that if you get them in that situation on the next grab, they'll refrain from using that option again. This leaves them only two options -- a backwards or forward tech -- giving you a 50/50. On a side note, people rarely tech foward, behind Falcon from up throw, so in this situation you should really be looking for a backwards tech. This is essentially an example of how you can actually engineer a player's tech habits).

In comparison, down throw is a quick throw not only in its execution vs Falco, but how quickly it causes Falco to hit the ground. In contrast to Up throw, this gives your opponent less time to think about where they want to tech. Now generally, teching towards Falcon after Down Throw is considered a big no, no in the current metagame. It's a stomp/knee/Down Smash setup that's been around since the beginning of time. However, if you've trained your opponent well enough with Up Throw to have them believe teching nuetral or backwards isn't an option, you can mold them into forgetting about this setup if you catch them on a whim and they aren't thinking clearly. Otherwise, if you want to start your head games with Down Throw, remember that experienced players usually won't tech towards you, so look for a 50/50 backwards or nuetral tech situation.

Another thing to look for are missed techs. There are certain situations and moves -- specifically against fast fallers --that often cause players to mistime their techs. With Falcon, good moves to bait missed techs with are Nair, Knee and the last hit of his AAA combo cancel (AKA "The Gentleman"). Make sure you're taking advantage of these situations with a Knee ready to go.

Eh, this is more general advaice vs. fastfallers than Falco specifically, but should help you regardless. I'll let someone else get into the finer points of the matchup, (like edgeguarding) as I'm tired of typing.


-Syn
 

audreyh

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haha what a sig, i vote syn's falcon to be the best looking =) in the world. k, great info syn, care to share about how you counterpick sheik with falcon =) couple of the best people i play with play sheik
 

SynikaL

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audreyh said:
haha what a sig, i vote syn's falcon to be the best looking =) in the world. k, great info syn, care to share about how you counterpick sheik with falcon =) couple of the best people i play with play sheik

This matchup really isn't all that complicated, though that doesn't make it easy. Sheik doesn't do anything much gayer to Falcon than anyone else unless he's off stage, so there isn't much to say outside of what's already been said. Basically, you just need to make sure you grab Sheik more than she grabs you. When you get Sheik to about 30-40% that's the sweetspot and you should be looking to take advantage of that with an up throw > the best combo you can muster in that situation (Nair is usually going to be your best follow up). When the Sheik is fresh, my focus is to get her to this percentage. I use grabs to do this in an effort to avoid any Crouch Cancel gayness, specifically mixing up and down throw chain grabs (for example, if I grab her at 0%, I try Up Throw, Up Throw, Down Throw, Up Throw -- at this point I may try to jab her one or two times and grab her again. At this point she should be at the sweetspot). Once she gets to about 70-100%, up throw to knee takes care of her. If somehow she manages to live past that, down throw (she really shouldn't though).


-Syn
(best looking?! I'll take it!!)
 

g-regulate

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thanks @ syn for covering space animal grab combos, i imagine with those strats, you **** space animals :) fox/falco are indeed a tricky biatch tho. ill elaborate a tad

basically, when you do an uthrow or dthrow on fox/falco, they only have 4 options. No tech, tech-in-place, tech away, or tech toward you. Falcon has the speed to hit any of these spots, every grab. Theoretically, thats all you need to know. show off your mindgames, and just put an attack in any of those spots. of course its easier said than done but it becomes second nature in time. i personally adore chasing fox/falco when they tech away, with a knee, or dair->knee. this at least puts fox/falco off the stage, like 80% of the time, which is exactly where you want them to be. spam bairs after that to keep them off.
keep in mind, you can hit any of their techs, with a wide variety of attacks. be sure to mix it up to keep yourself unpredictable (dair, knee, grab, dtilt, re-grab). since you can hit any spot, it gives fox/falco no real "correct" thing to do out of falcons grab, so you have to take advantage. when you hit space animals in the air, a lot of the time they will DI up to avoid a KO from a knee, which leaves them open to other knee combo setups (bair, dtilt, even nair!). mix up the combos with the knees and you catch their DI off guard much more.
 

Mista Sinista

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Double post, too ****in' bad.


Ya know, G-Reg, for an instructional "How To Be Amazing" thread, you really haven't said much. Teach these nublings so I can make fun of them when they're like "OH SNAPZ YOU CAN DO MORE THAN ONE NAIR IN A ROW!?"
 

g-regulate

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sorry, i try not to post too much, so i can give everyone time to practice my advice/discuss it with me if they dont quite understand. but no jones, ive made at least 6 massive posts.... im usually mad busy on the weekends and can only post while at work. BUT im at work right now so....


LOW TIERS!
now, lets not lie to ourselves.... all of our falcons have been beaten by a low tier in tourney. no need to be embarassed, one of falcons unfortunate disadvantages is that he can be terribly combo'd by nearly every character. without a certain familiarity to each low tier character, any falcon can be wrecked by a ness/kirby/G&W/Link/etc. who is familiar with falcon. but lets not get confused, falcon still has a HEAVY advantage over all of these characters. the comboability of these characters are mostly super high (like, g-reg high). dthrow to knee can usually work at silly percentages, sometimes at all percentages. at mid to higher percentages, one simple uair (even shffling one when they are on the ground) can make for a more-than-easy knee, and on the lighter low tiers, usually means inescapable death.
The best strategy against the low tiers is to STAY FOCUSED, AND PLAY CHEAP. weve all had the mindset at one time or another, the mindset of "well, im playing a low tier, but im falcon/marth/shiek/fox, so its cool". people think their high-tier advantage is so high, that they dont have to try, or strategize. this is a poor mindset, and you are asking to lose if you think this way. theres still a certain style that must be played against every character, and you must learn it to not fall short of victory. while you have the advantage, your opponent has the real advantage, because they know the matchup better. especially people who main low-tier, chances are they know their top/upper-tier matchups inside and out.
since i cant cover every character, ill just overview some things.
chaingrabbing! chaingrabbing is a glorious thing. abuse it mercilously to make your opponent DI away. knowing where your opponent will DI will frustrate and open up new tech-chase based attacks. i.e. quick dthrows on pikachu, pichu, G&W, y link, ness, and quick uthrows on link, roy, DK, etc.
dont feel like chaingrabbing? BUST OUT SOME G-REG: if you get a dthrow or uthrow out quick enough, and they dont DI away, its game time. knee/nair/uair/bair, they ALL combo one way or another. keep watch for my personal favorite, if you get a knee off after the throw, and they DI it up, its double/triple knee time. rock that ish.
uairs can run rampant on lower tiers. a simple uthrow, sometimes no matter where they DI, just spam uairs and nairs, and you will find the knee. the uthrow works best, because it puts them in the air (making the smaller low tiers easier to hit). make sure you l-cancel and short hop properly, and your opponent has no chance of landing once he is up there. falcons air game is too good!
and dont forget to abuse crappy recoveries! many characters are low tier for a reason, sometimes because of their terribly abusable recoveries (i.e. luigi, roy, DK, bowser, ness, zelda). going on and off the ledge will keep your invincibility, while making them go for the stage. this opens up free knees, which equal free kills. characters who have attacking up+b's can be countered with some tricky tech skill. grabbing an edgehog RIGHT at the moment an attacking up+b would hit you, will not hit you, either edgehogging them to their death, or setting up for the ledgehop knee, or get up, grab, to knee. no mercy off the stage!


sorry nothing is really specific this time, i know its kind of vague but ask questions if you are confused. and props to anyone who gets g-reg high lol
 

SuperRad

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i want to see g-reg vs silentspectre. ss was dominant at Anaheim. A lot of people there were saying that SS was second only to Isai.

on topic, this thread is **** cool. I'll have to try out a lot of this stuff next time i paly.
 

Vall3y

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g-reg, got any tips vs IC? i could use some
spamming dairs on nana seems to mess her up and she doenst really escape it
and edgeguarding is pretty easy
but once i get knocked out of the stage (pretty fast with those uber smashes) its like good bye stock
 

g-regulate

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yes, im sure theres was much SS love, and much g-reg hate going on. but its cool. they will all understand in time...

but yes, IC are a tricky biatch. the best thing i can say is dont get grabbed, ever. dont get smashed... ever. easier said than done, right? you just need to add a little campiness to your game. hop around on platforms, jump around. the IC's arent exactly the king and queen of mobility, and they will struggle to move around, besides just wavedashing back and forth. keep moving, and try to get an aerial off. like you said, dair on nana works good, i like to squeeze her out, and just knee her to death if i can manage it.
which brings me to my next point. kill the biatch! IC's DO brutally combo falcon, but the damage and severity of these combos are lessened when you kill nana. someone who knows how to chaingrab you will do it, and you will die. game over. so dont get grabbed ever, and get rid of nana!
every time you land an aerial, pray to god that you l-cancel it right, because you will need to dash like a man escaping prison RIGHT after an aerial, or else IC's have the potential for a WD-grab (which can cover a huge distance), which means game over for you.
also, if you DO end up getting off the stage, its better to go low for the sweetspot against a smart IC player. (chu used to like to get me with the "tiptoe away from the ledge, to full wavedash back-->dsmash"). always tech! it can save your life, but you should all know that. unfortunately, a smart IC player WILL kill you every time off the ledge, just try to outsmart where you will land your up+B, its all you can do.
but other than these disadvantages, falcon combo's IC's pretty much just like any low tier. i like to refer to them as little soccer balls, because thats how they combo. uairs nairs and knees **** them up really bad, and combo extremely well. dthrow to knee at most percentages buttrapes IC's. and one more thing, if you knock popo off the ledge, remember, nana doesnt tech OR DI, falcon punch combo? :)
 

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
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yay! you named combos after me! yay!

now just take the "-" out of g-reg...
 

Mista Sinista

Smash Lord
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The Ice Climbers must always be seperated. Stomp to knee and run away works well. Today I was playing my friend who has some pretty good IC's and I would stomp/knee Nana, then do a grab -> uair -> knee combo on him. Works a lot better than you'd expect.


EDIT - G-Reg, I recorded some stuff with my friend today. When he sends me a few of my Falcon matches, could I possibly send you a couple for some pointers? And don't worry, I'm not terrible, I'm pretty **** good actually.
 

Omni

You can't break those cuffs.
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if i may so request from a fellow member of team falconfox:

what are the most effective moves against Falcon with Fox and how will a Falcon attempt to beat them?

*evil grin*
 

Dice

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All you need to beat falcon with fox is nair and shine.

Shiz, I want to see those matches once you get them :p
 
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