Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

god all this talk about Roy and Mewtwo feels like repetition, it so tiresome and boring debating this.

can someone please bring up a new topic.

New topic: I know you don't want one, but if you had to have a second Yoshi rep who would it be?

After all this time, people are still clinging to the BS relevancy argument?

jigglover said:

New topic: I know you don't want one, but if you had to have a second Yoshi rep who would it be?

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Probably Kamek. The Baby Mario Bros might end up as an Pichu Ice CLimbers of the Mario Bros

why would baby bros. hurt themselves?

thank you.
I always felt Yoshi is still part of Mario however.

But i wont talk about that.

Kamek would be fun, and a wand would be an interesting choice. New moves and potential. She could even fly around on broomstick lol. Though she probably has better chance of being an assist.

Baby Bros: I thought of this a couple of times. Ice Climbers are a clever duo, however they seem kind of lonely just being the only real double character. Be nice to have a different kind of team and see what you can pull up.

Birdo: i felt Birdo could once have a chance. Now i'm not so sure. Besides an egg roll and shooting eggs in straight distance what else does she have?

Despite all of this i think a second Yoshi rep at this time is unlikely.

jigglover said:

why would baby bros. hurt themselves?

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They would be a weaker version of Mario/ Luigi

Birdo is not a Yoshi character. Tell me a Yoshi series game she he it was in.

Despite being clone potential, Baby Bowser.

Though having a smaller weaker Bowser would be somewhat unique in itself.

Falcon Punching someone like Baby Mario would leave some...unfortunate implications, and Kamek is just your average Magikoopa and has become more of a main series Mario character these days.

Metal Overlord said:

After all this time, people are still clinging to the BS relevancy argument?

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Characters like Krom,Zoroark and Pacman aren`t even requested;people believe that they`ll make it for whatever reasons but in reality they dont want them,they just feel that they`ll be added because of the paterns through each games.As for Pacman,it`s not like Sonic when people wanted him,Pacman is only being pitched because he`s Namco mascot,not because he`s requested.

Characters like Ridley,Little Mac,Mewtwo and somehow Roy are actually requested by people so those are the most likely to be at least considered for the next game.

Here comes the troll, doo doo doo doo.
Anyway, take out the word somehow, and the last sentence in that post actually makes sense! *Has a heart attack because a troll makes sense.

Changing the discussion,but i believe that KOSMOS would make an awesome playable character for SSB4.Seriously,a stripper with giant headphones shooting dual machineguns at aliens is the best idea ever made.Monolith Soft should be awarded for making such an awesome character.

@evilsmashbrosfan stupid choice. using your argument from before, KOSMOS isnt heavily requested. like barely if at all.

personally i was a fan of Pac-man for inclusion since ssb4 was announced. i mean hell the character is unique, popular, has decent movest potential, is like the oldest and most recognized gaming icon, has had a good relationship with Nintendo, and it would make sense for a namco rep to be their mascot.

I'm just curious people say Yoshi has his own franchise now.... what characters are actually part of his franchise?

btw evilsmashbrosfan.... i'm all for Krom and Pacman making the cut.

Yoshi, baby bros. (baby mario and baby luigi), the rest of the babies, arguably shy guy, Kamek and Poochy are the ones with a chance in hell of smash, with baby bros. obviously out on top.

Venus of the Desert Bloom said:

You should never go by patterns since patterns do not exist

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Gonna jump in to say this.

Believing there are no patterns is just as foolish as looking for patterns. You have to recognize that they do exist, but not look just at that. You have to take a middle road stance.

EDIT:I got pranked. I have no idea what this means.

Venus of the Desert Bloom said:

Zoroark and Pac-Man both have fan support and are characters that have a fair number of requests. While not on the scale of Ridley, they have both the Likeliness factor, popularity, and relevancy to be included. You should never go by patterns since patterns do not exist BZuT neither of those characters are a far shot. However, since you are going on the number of requests alone, K. Rool should be considered since he is both highly requested in the West and Japan. Yet, you've went on to say K. Rool is a joke and a generic forgotten Nintendo character. Additionally, Megaman has the second highest amount of requests for a 3rd party character inclusion as well as the higher ups in Capcom responding positively to Megaman's inclusion. Yet, to knock those characters down as next to impossible.

Your logic makes no sense. You seem to target only characters you like and rate then as likely. It shows with "...and somehow Roy...". It shows you don't particulary care about Roy, don't understand why he is requested, yet begrudgingly say he should be considered. You play the favoritism game and it shows in the characters you both choose that will or will not appear.

I know you are trying to go the realistic route. That's a good thing and nothing is wrong with that. But the thing is...the stuff you propose is fairly unrealistic.

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Okay but using relevancy as an argument is a dangerous game,just saying.Because if you look sorely at relevancy you could cut a whole bunch of characters from the roster.And you`re forgetting that gameplay matter the most and it`s the main reason why many requested characters wont make it.Beside,fans` requests isn`t the only factor that goes under a roster and Sakurai will be throwing his own characters as well as Namco and probably several Nintendo people as well.In that sense,my roster is more realistic because i goes beyond fans` requests and into characters that could be fun to play as.

Also,how can people like a character whose game you didn`t even played yetAnd Pacman is nowhere as requested as Sonic was,people are overestimating K.Rool importance and Sakurai wont chase Megaman if he doesn`t want him in the game.You can be realistic if you want but what you`re saying isn`t.

SmashChu said:

Gonna jump in to say this.

Believing there are no patterns is just as foolish as looking for patterns. You have to recognize that they do exist, but not look just at that. You have to take a middle road stance.

EDIT:I got pranked. I have no idea what this means.

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Pretty much this. One thing we have to look at is if there's a reason behind it. One pattern that can be consider to be reliable is the Mew-like pattern and not just because it's occurred three times, but because Mew-like characters aren't meant to be fighters as their nature is generally peaceful. Which is why it's best to dismiss any possibility of a Mew-like characters because it's simply not going to happen for good reasons.

On the other hand, patterns like the "new Star Fox rep" pattern every game is incredibly faulty. It doesn't indicate why a new character would be picked, only that every game, Star Fox got a new character. If a Star Fox rep (in which it would be Krystal) is added to the roster, it won't be because Sakurai wants to keep up the pattern, it'll be because he sees a new Star Fox rep as a worthy addition.

That said, I try to avoid involving patterns in my arguments because patterns can break at any times and I generally despise patternists logics.

Krystal is not a worthy representation of Star Fox in any shape or form.

She's a worthy representation of pissing off everyone though.

Super Smash Bros. Fan said:

On the other hand, patterns like the "new Star Fox rep" pattern every game is incredibly faulty. It doesn't indicate why a new character would be picked, only that every game, Star Fox got a new character. If a Star Fox rep (in which it would be Krystal) is added to the roster, it won't be because Sakurai wants to keep up the pattern, it'll be because he sees a new Star Fox rep as a worthy addition.

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Or more likely as a last minute clone.

SmashChu said:

Gonna jump in to say this.

Believing there are no patterns is just as foolish as looking for patterns. You have to recognize that they do exist, but not look just at that. You have to take a middle road stance.

Click to expand...

What SmashChu said. Certainly is tough not to though, human nature and whatnot.

EDIT:I got pranked. I have no idea what this means.

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Check the Backroom. And no it wasn't me.

SmasherMaster said:

Or more likely as a last minute clone.

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I think those days of adding characters just to fill up the roster is in the past (and by past, I mean Melee). The "clones" in Brawl are considerably more unique than the Melee clones and the only confirmed last-minute addition (Sonic) got in by massive demand and had a completely unique move set. Not that Krystal couldn't be a semi-clone, but I heavily doubt she would be a full-on clone.

Even if someone were to bring up Wolf as the Brawl example of a late character being a clone, it doesn't count since he only shares five moves overall.

Habanero said:

Krystal is not a worthy representation of Star Fox in any shape or form.

She's a worthy representation of pissing off everyone though.

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You just triggered the rage input for all furry fans out there.

Pichu4SSB4 said:

You just triggered the rage input for all furry fans out there.

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They`ll be pissed for an hour then they`ll forget why they were raging around.

Realistic Dream Roster, Commentary

This is related to the Roster found over here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14985120&postcount=83

Well, this is a 6 page Commentary, so I'll break it into different posts (any rules about double posting on here? I don't think it will all fit on one post, if I'm breaking the rules, let me know and I'll try to fix things), each one referring to a different section.

Ok, so this is essentially the ideal Roster from my point of view, offering a nice varied mix of different and unique characters into the fray. I toss in 51 characters with the idea that if all 51 were to be in, it would be the perfect game. However, realistically speaking, all 51 won't make the cut, especially not all those 3rd party characters. So I would say all the Vet mentioned will return, including the Melee vets, with Roy being on the Ledge. For the newcomers I'd say around 10 will make the cut in the Best Case Scenario, and 3 3rd Party characters, best case scenario. Now to find out, WHO and WHY? Read on.

Returning Characters:
It should be obvious who is definitely coming back. Now, as for those who didn’t make the cut…
Well, First off. Lucas is a clone of Ness in just about everything. If we get Alt Costumes, he can be an Alt. of Ness. Also, with Custom Movesets Lucas can essentially be in the game, without actually being in… More or less. Personally, I don’t see the need of keeping him in.

Lucario, he was an interesting concept in Brawl, but I think he should stay there, between him and Mewtwo, Mewtwo is much more iconic and interesting.

Jigglypuff, now I don’t have a problem with Jiggs personally. But, if we want things to stay fresh it would be wise to replace her. Now, I’m sure most of us know she was added due to the TV Show, so, why not replace her with someone from the show who is even MORE iconic, like Meowth?

Wolf, as much as I love StarFox, 3 SF characters is too many, especially when they’re all goddamn clones. How about this, port him over as an unplayable boss character. That’s more exciting.

Toon Link, he was a neat novelty, but too much of a clone, someone like Majora’s Mask Link has very unique gameplay (Mask Transformations) potential and would be more exciting than, “a lighter link with a CG look and floaty physics,” he can stay in Brawl. Samus and Zsuit samus are still in, I just repped them as the same character.

3rd Party:
Sonic is pretty much guaranteed a comeback, and Snake was THE MOST interesting and unique character in Brawl in my opinion, he DESERVES a comeback, not to mention he’s a top tier tourney character, that makes him hard to replace. Furthermore, his absence in SONY Battle Royale could be a hint of his return, and we all know Kojima wants him in. So both 3rd party characters are likely to return in my opinion.

Upgraded Characters:
1st party characters that deserve to return with some tweaks.

First off, Falco. I’ll be honest with you, I would personally be OK, with taking him out all together, but he DOES play different from Fox, and he has a strong follower base since Melee. So he should definitely be changed. There were plenty of weapons in SF Assault he can pick and choose form, the art showed him with a rocket launcher, so why not. And for the love of God, give him his Arwing as a Final Smash, he’s a Goddamned Ace Pilot for crying out loud.

Ganondorf. We’ve said time and time again. Give him his Sword and Magic. Also, give him the mechanics he had in Melee. He was a brutal Bad *** in Melee, and I don’t know WHAT you did to him in Brawl, but it sucked. Ganondorf would be the first to benefit from customizable movesets. Players could mix and match between something fresh, and the classic C.Falcon variation. Also, Final Smash has to be a transformation ala Giga Bowser. We want Ganon King of Evil, not some ugly “edgy” Pig that doesn’t do ****.

Diddy Kong: There isn’t much WRONG with Diddy, but I would love to see him paired with Dixie to pay homage to DKC2. It would make for very creative gameplay. And for those of you who wanna scream IC clone. Well, think of this, if you played DKC2, the Lead Monkey impacted the play style a lot, also, they had the ability to do Co-Op moves, together. Take this concept and work with it, it would really neat. Dedicate a button to swapping the lead monkey, have Diddy play somewhat like he does in Brawl, switch a couple things like the ^+B, and have Dixie be the better Kong at recovery. Also, what the **** is up with his Final Smash in Brawl, a ****ing jet-pack and twin guns?? How uninspired can you get? Give him his stereo or some ****, and Dixie her Guitar. The Kongs’ attitude is what made them so likable in the first place, remove that, and you remove the charm.

The Pokemon Trainer: I can hear the rage already. “Red is more Iconic, the three starters are the staples of the series,” blah blah blah. First things first, White’s portrait is but a mere representation of the Unova trainers. In reality you can choose boy or girl gender, with the B2W2 as alt costumes. I made a Character Profile on the Pokemon Trainer, just read that. Now, why did I replace Red. Two reasons, well 3 really (THAT ****ING VOICE), first reason is to keep things fresh. Replace the three starters with the Unova starters, and toss in 3 more to make things even more interesting. 6 Pokemon allows for a ton of customizations, which is what I feel this character should be about. Second, is because Gen5 is a very unique an successful Generation that deserves representation, not to mention it’s gonna get it, and to be honest, between ****ing uninspired Zoroark and the Unova Trainers, I’ll take the latter any day. Not to mention, if you remove Red, you can add him in as a Secret Boss, and pay homage to that classic battle on Mt. Silver, not only that, but as a Boss Character you could have him use all 6 of his Pokemon FROM THAT BATTLE, and THAT would be incredible. Just please, make him silent and don’t give him that ****ty voice again. And given that it’s Boss Red now, please make him look older and more mature. The canon battle was 2 years after, and Gen 5 takes place 5 years after. So he should have grown a bit by now.

The Lost Veterans:
Rumor has it that Mewtwo was supposed to be in Brawl, but was pulled due to time constraints. Whatever the story, I would much rather see him over Lucario or any other Pokemon for that matter. His playstyle was cool and unique. Too bad he kinda sucked. So, if you bring him back, improve the poor guy. For example, replace Confusion with Psychic, giving him some sort of Long Range Grab. That would be cool. It wouldn’t be a Hookshot, it’s literally Confusion with a better hitbox and double the range. But if he “gets” an enemy with it he “grabs” them and pushes them back. Or something like that. Point is, he’s got potential, he just needs work.

As for Roy, “Roy’s our boy,” I’d love to see him back, a Fire Based Swordsman with burn abilities. All the way, he just needs some work so he’s not a Marth Clone. But then again, if we get Isaac he would then be very similar to Isaac’s Magic Based abilities. And to be honest, as much as I love Fire Emblem, if it comes down to either him or Lyn, I’d take Lyn. Hands down no questions asked, not only because this game could use more strong, female heroines, but also because Lyn’s Battoujutsu/Iaijutsu style of sword handling would make for a much more interesting and unique character.

Commentary Part 2

Once again, if double posting is against the rules, let me know and I'll try to edit it. I tried splitting it into two posts, it should fit properly this way.

PART2:

NEW CHARACTERS:
Lyn: Well, since I mentioned her in the last part, I may as well start with her. Out of the new-coming First Party Characters, she and MM Link are my Most Wanted. I wanted her to be in back in Brawl, and I want her in NOW. The possibilities are endless with her style. She would be a counter focused character, with quick short range moves, and very high mobility, back in Fire Emblem, she had INSANE Speed, usually hitting enemies 2x every time (4x with a Brave Sword).

This brings me to my next Point, Combos. Lyn would be a great Combo Character she would be the Slash to Marth’s Pierce, but with less range and better speed, a heavier focus on being able to counter, and a Special focused on preset combo moves. Which brings me to the point of FE characters in general. In FE, especially the Ike series, units get abilities, and a TON were introduced in Radiant Dawn. So… Why in the HELL, does every FE character have Counter for v+B? IN fact Lyn is the ONLY one where it makes sense. But Marth and especially Ike could use something different. In fact, if I recall correctly, Ike couldn’t even get Counter back in FE9&10. Now for those who lack imagination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battōjutsu) or don’t know what Iaijutsu is like, Lyn is basically a female Ruroni Kenshin. For those who have played Guilty Gear, she would be kinda like Baiken, but not really, as the idea would be to make her a faster character (as if GGXX wasn’t fast enough). In fact, that one technique Kenshin had (I forgot the name) is essentially like her Assist Trophy move, and what I would put as her >/<+B, except without the start up, much less range and much less power. It’d be like Fox’s Illusion, but with more “Slash.” v+B Would be Counter, and her St. B would be a Combo opener, some simple launcher that can be followed up by other moves, or by continuing the Combo with B, for a triple strike finish or something.

Lastly, to add a bit more to the mix, I wouldn’t give her ONLY sword moves, but I feel simple Kicks would work with her for her Normal (A) and Aerial attacks. Like I can see her >/<+A being a Push Kick, and you could follow it up (ala Snake) with a Reverse Horizontal Slash. Anyway, enough on Lyn. I know I’m not the only one that wants her in, she’s got a strong following, She’s unique, Iconic, and with plenty of potential. I would honestly take her over ANY other FE, and even 1st party character to be honest. And besides, I’m sure I’m not the only one who would want more Sexy Females in Smash (C’mon, admit it, you waifu’d her back in Middle School when you first picked up FE7).

Majora’s Mask Link: My other Most Wanted, and my God the potential with this character. The concept behind him is the following: You designate each Special to a Mask. With B being the Ocarina, you use it and play the Song of Time, thus temporarily slowing down time for everyone but you for... 4 seconds, >+B the Goron Roll, hold B to charge it, it’s basically Jigg’s Rollout, the ^+B the Deku Flowers, a slight delay while hops into a flower and he shoots up with two flowers with which he can hover, similar to Snake’s, but in opposite effect, and the v+B the Zora Electro-shield if used on ground, it lasts a second or two, if used in air, he dives while using it. The transformations would be instant, and each Mask Transformation has unique and different properties and Normal(A)/Aerial Attacks, aside from Link who also has his own. Link is equipped with the Guilded Sword and Hero’s Shield, he has the Fierce Deity Mask as a temporary Transformation for a Final Smash, it lasts… as long as Giga Bowser, for example, and you wreak havoc with it. Deku’s Focus is on Long range attacks are recovery/Aerial Moves, being light weight and Frail, Zora, is Speedy with plenty of Slash moves, and his signature Boomerangs. Goron is the big Heavy, with slow, but hard-hitting moves. Link, is just link, we can actually give him the moves of Toon Link, but with a less floaty Jump. I would say he’s a mix of Young and Toon as far on ho He plays. The key to him is the Masks, that’s where it’s interesting. It makes him a very versatile character.

The Rest:
Ridley, is NOT too big. He can definitely fit in the Roster if we downsize him. We saw him in the preview to Melee facing off against Samus and he was resized, just make him a bit bigger than Charizard and there you go, he would probably be the biggest character in the roster though.
Paletunia is the BEST candidate for a second KI character. I would love to see her in too. Especially after seeing those SHAFT animations from KIU. Not sure what she would play like, but people say they saw a lot of her abilities in KIU.
Isaac, I think this subject has been beaten to death already, and anyone who’s played more than 5 mins of Golden Sun knows what to expect from him. He’s very likely to make the cut imo, I personally don’t care too much for him, but if he gets flesh out properly I welcome him.
Little Mac… Uhm? Balrog from Street Fighter would be a good reference point I guess.
Shulk, haven’t played Xenoblade, but people want him, and honestly, after the whole fiasco with Operation Rainfall he’ll most likely make the cut too.
Captain Rainbow, from a Japanese game, so he is very welcome, we want more strange an quirky characters like him, from what I’ve seen in the few videos I have he seems to be a transforming character too. So we’ll see what that brings. He honestly reminds me of Viewtiful Joe.
Professor Layton, people have suggested an “Inspector Gadget” esque movepool. That would be cool actually, haven’t played much of his games though so I can’t judge.
Dillon, I have not played this game, so I have NO idea. The character design is cool though, I had honestly never heard of him before, but people want him for some reason, character design is cool though.
Calista, I haven’t played the Last Story, but she’s another Rainfall character. As female swordswoman/Holy Mage, she sounds more interesting than Shulk to be honest, but I feel Shulk has better odds. Especially since we already have Zelda and Marth, and I’d rather have Lyn.
Meowth, Just here to replace Jiggs, he’s a Pokemon, so his movepool should be easy to come up with.



3rd Party Newcomers:
Oh boy, the one we’ve all been waiting for, and where the controversy and competition is most heated. Personally I say that aside from Snake and Sonic, we could see 3 more MAX. Now, lets start looking at things rationally. First off, with 1st parties, we can be guaranteed most will make the cut, it’s at 3rd party where things are rougher. We could estimate 40-45 characters in SSB4 (and 45 Is really pushing it, 40 sounds much more likely). Now the numbers, we have 24 returning as is, 4 returning from Brawl with a redesign, two returning from Melee, and two retruning 3rd Party. For a total of 32. Now, with the cuts already in place, that leaves us with around 8-13 slots for new characters, that sounds very reasonable. 6-10 1st Party, and 2-3 new 3rd party. So looking at “Best Case Scenario” with 10 1st Party and 3 3rd Party, who can we expect from the 3rd Party?

Well for starters, Travis, has HUGE support, and he is also, my MOST wanted 3rd party. I don’t think much needs to be said on the why, how, and what, for reasons and movepools. You don’t even need to play NMH to know what he would play like, just watch a couple videos and you got it. As for Why? Well, NMH1&2 successes on the Wii, and even its temporary exclusivity should serve as clues, not only that but there is no better “Mature” character for Smash than Travis.

Simon Belmont: Comes in second with support, people were pissed Snake made the cut back in Brawl because they felt that was Simon’s Spot. Now I’d love to see Simon in, but not over Snake. He’s my 2nd most wanted 3rd party character, and with the use of his Vampire Killer whip and his sub weapons, his movepool practically writes itself. A long to mid range fighter, with hard hitting close range moves. And THAT ****ING WHIP, **** YEAH. Also, Castlevania NEEDS Support, it began on the NES, and most of Simon’s titles have come to Nintendo consoles. Not to mention, Simon is the most Iconic figure of the Catlevania series for those who have stuck with it since the NES days, he was even featured in Captain N several times. Finally, picture this, Getting Dracula’s castle as a stage, with Medusa heads, and Spacial Distorion, My God, it would be glorious. Not only that, but, what if we got Death as a Hidden Boss? Imagine being able to fight death with other Smash Fighters? Jesus, I’m getting a raging boner just thinking of it.

So, keep in mind that NAMCO is co-producing SSB4, so you can bet your sweet *** we’ll see a Namco character. This means a couple things now… First off, you can kiss Capcom characters goodbye. Why? Well if anyone from Capcom’s jewish pockets was gonna make the cut, it’s gonna be someone from SF, most likely Ryu. Now personally, my vote goes to Chun-Li. Fireball/Uppercut/Tornado is boring and overrated, you can do much more interesting things with Chun-Li and her multiple kicks, not to mention, she’s arguably more Iconic than Ryu, and female fighters are always welcome.

Oh wait, what? You wanted Megaman? Yeah, well me too. But you know Megaman is dead in Capcom’s eyes, you’d probably get Zero instead, and I don’t want MORE swordsmen, especially a generic one. Besides, coming up with a decent movepool for Megaman is hard, the Games are basically “Jump and Shoot.” Sure, you can have the Power Slide, and his dog, but it’s still tough, how do you incorporate his trademark "Ability Steal?" But look, the problem doesn’t lie in Megaman himself. It lies in the fact that Capcom hates you and me and doesn’t want us to enjoy any more Megaman…

So then, why say goodbye to the Capcom characters, well, Namco. Like I said, SF is most likely to get rep, now you think NAMCO, the co-producer wants to treat Capcom to free marketing for SF, when they make Tekken and Soul Calibur. I mean, joint projects and cameos are two different things, sure they’ll work on games like Project X Zone and SFXTekken together, but that’s different from adding an iconic 3rd party.

So, who from NAMCO will make the cut? Well Lloyd is very likely, and I would prefer him over the suggestions I keep hearing (Ivy, Seigfried, Nighmare, or any Tekken Character, ugh, do you people even have creativity? You would really take generic KarateMan, or Swordsman/Femdom***** over some of NAMCO’s other IP’s?), and don’t even get me started on Pacman… Jesus ****, WHY would you even consider him? It’s like you’ve never played more than 3 games in your life… So WHO does my vote go out to?

Alisa from God Eater. Now the chances are slim to none, and it’s a shame too because with her weapon you could have a real unique character. You could designate a button to switching between Gun mode and Broadsword (St. B?), and build her character around that. Not sure what her Final Smash would be, but who gives a ****, from all of NAMCO’s IPs hers is the most interesting for Smash. Now, to all the naysayers, keep in mind, even though God Eater is a Sony exclusive title right now. A lot of Sony, exclusives are moving onto Nintendo, such as Monster Hunter and Bayonetta. Not to mention, her character appears in Project X Zone, a 3DS title. And God Eater has a huge fanbase in Japan, and she’s the most Iconic character from the series.

Now for the last one, Bayonetta, she’s got about as much a chance as Travis in my opinion. And with Bayo2 being a WiiU exclusive she’s got a solid chance, especially to market the game, now I haven’t played the game, but like Dante, her character is built around combos, and the premise is simple, she’s a Witch, she shoots guns, and and has even more guns for shoes, simple enough. How to make it work? Well, first off tell Nintendo to stop being kiddies and allow their characters to use bullets, which would give Snake a couple more things to work with too. Second, use your imagination. The game has a fighting Game-like combo mechanic in, like DMC, so the translation shouldn’t be difficult, and really Bayo is silly enough to make it into Smash’s mixed pool of everything. I would put her on the same level of seriousness and maturity as NMH and MGS, just under Castlevania. Not much else to say about her, but we can expect her to make the cut actually. It would be a very wise move on Ninty’s part, especially since they seem focused on trying to bring back their “Hardcore audience.” So we’ll see, Bayo2 being a WiiU exclusive is certainly promising.

Meowth is NOT gonna replace Jiggs.
Pokemon is NOT getting that much representation from B&W.
Also, good lord, 9 3rd parties.
Wolf is barely even a semi clone. 5 moves, really.
Lucas was not a clone to Ness in "just about everything".
Dixie and Diddy tag team is gonna get a lot of hate from Diddy mains.
Lucario and mewtwo can both be in.

Closing remarks: You have several characters that are just unlikely to make the cut on your roster.

1. Travis Touchdown isn't Ubisoft. He's from a company called Grasshopper Manufacture.

2. Your argument against Pac-Man is really bad. It's obvious that you know nothing about Pac-Man and why he would have more priority over a Tales character. (Not saying Lloyd has no chance, but a character who's extremely close to Nintendo > a character who has barely any appearances on Nintendo consoles)

3. Layton is third party

4. SmashShadow stated everything else.

8-peacock-8 said:

2. Your argument against Pac-Man is really bad. It's obvious that you know nothing about Pac-Man and why he would have more priority over a Tales character. (Not saying Lloyd has no chance, but a character who's extremely close to Nintendo > a character who has barely any appearances on Nintendo consoles).

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I'd hardly call Pac-man close to Nintendo. He's about as close to them as he is to Microsoft or Sony.

Edit: Not defending his roster, just wanted to point out that Pac-Man isn't really connected to Nintendo the same way, say, Megaman is.

SmashShadow said:

Meowth is NOT gonna replace Jiggs.
Pokemon is NOT getting that much representation from B&W.
Also, good lord, 9 3rd parties.
Wolf is barely even a semi clone. 5 moves, really.
Lucas was not a clone to Ness in "just about everything".
Dixie and Diddy tag team is gonna get a lot of hate from Diddy mains.
Lucario and mewtwo can both be in.

Closing remarks: You have several characters that are just unlikely to make the cut on your roster.

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Meowth replacing Jiggs is simply a suggestion dude don't get you panties in a knot.

What do you mean on the Pokemon part? A whole trainer Dedicated to B&W is enough representation, check out my post on the B&W trainer if you want more info. Also, chances are the Stage will be N's Castle or the Pokemon League. Point is, I don't want ****ing Zoroark. 4 characters per franchise is fair. Pika, Meowth/Jiggs (whatever I don't care), Mewtwo, Unova Trainer.

>9 3rd parties
Did you even read my posts? I stated several times, that out of the 9 suggested, 3 TOPS will most likely make the cut. Look, don't bother replying if you only looked at the picture and didn't bother to read the commentary.

3 SF characters is 1 too many. Wolf is not necessary and can easily be taken out and made a boss character.

Lucas is a clone, Sorry dude, with custom movesets and Alt costumes you can have him in, inderectly. No need to him to take a slot. There are only 3 Mother games. No need for them to get that much rep.

Diddie and Dixie is a neat concept, who gives a **** it pisses off the Diddy mains. The Ganon mains had to switch to someone new when Brawl ****ed him in the ***.

>Lucario & Mewtwo
Read the first part, 5 Pkmn is 1 too many.

As for your closing comment, yeah, that's why in a way it's kind of a dream list. However, it has enough variety to keep things fresh and interesting. Most of the ones with a slim chance are 3rd party anyway (Alisa for example).

Anyway, read the commentary, then we'll talk, I get the feeling you pulled a tl;dr.

8-peacock-8 said:

1. Travis Touchdown isn't Ubisoft. He's from a company called Grasshopper Manufacture.

2. Your argument against Pac-Man is really bad. It's obvious that you know nothing about Pac-Man and why he would have more priority over a Tales character. (Not saying Lloyd has no chance, but a character who's extremely close to Nintendo > a character who has barely any appearances on Nintendo consoles)

3. Layton is third party

4. SmashShadow stated everything else.

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>Travis
Yep, you're right. I looked at the publisher when I checked the Wiki. Oh well. Point is, he's still 3rd party.

>Pacman
Pretty much, it's hard to give a **** about him. He's no Mario, and coming up with a decent movepool is tough. I don't see why he has all the support he does. He seems boring and uninteresting. I already said I take preference for Alisa when it comes to NAMCO. Personally, I can't see Pacman as a PLAYABLE character on Smash4. Perhaps an Assist Trophy, where most characters that are difficult to make into fighters belong.

>Layton
Really? I didn't know that, like I said I've only played one of his games, and he seems interesting, but well, if he's 3rd party then I guess no dice. There are other, much better characters suited to take his spot.

Yeah. That rooster isn't ever going to happen. Travis is barely requested, and there won't be nearly as many (if any whatsoever) cuts as there were between Melee and Brawl, especially of characters with unique movesets (Mewtwo) or simply moveset potential (Roy). Seriously, they're already in the game. Cutting one character does not mean we get another new one. There's a finitive amount of resources avaible for creating characters, cutting an old one does not give more time to create some. My point being, there's absolutely no point in cutting a character. When you take out a moveset, you're essentially making everyone who used that character mad.

Dillon and Shulk are in similar boats. Their both new, really aren't on the level of Nintendo allstar. While I would like to see both, that really is too idealistic. Shulk is more plausible, simply because his game spawned Operation Rainfall, which is the first time (I've heard) the players made an organized and successful effort to get a game imported. I'm kind of hoping this will be a milestone in gaming history, leading to Shulk's inclusion to comemmerate this event. But, like I said, idealistic.

Finally, the only way I think Jigglypuff would be replaced is by Wigglytuff being added, given a very similar moveset and playstyle, and explicitly stated to represent Mystery Dungeon. Seriously, there are 2 Mario Spin Offs represented, 3 if you count Yoshi, though he really works as a Mario character just as much as a spin off, whereas Wario and DK have much more history in their own series, and those 2 spin offs have 3 characters (with a fourth being frequently requested). This is the main reason I don't like Waluigi, simply because he only appears in Mario Spin offs were he isn't even any more prominent than any other character. Come on, Mario Party vs Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. Which deserves a rep?

...Okay, probably put way to much personal bias into that last paragraph and got way too off topic, but the point still stands. Cuts. Are. Pointless.

Second Power said:

...Okay, probably put way to much personal bias into that last paragraph and got way too off topic, but the point still stands. Cuts. Are. Pointless.

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I disagree, cuts mean, more room for new characters to come in. It happens all the time in fighting games. SF 2> Alpha> SF3>SF4. MvC1>2>3. So it can be expected that some older characters will get cut to make room for new ones. Also, I dunno where you've been, but I see Travis requested quite a lot. Maybe not on this forum, but outside of this place Travis is among the Most wanted 3rd party characters, and he sure is a hell of a lot more interesting than Pacman, or Megaman.

ManlySpirit said:

I disagree, cuts mean, more room for new characters to come in. It happens all the time in fighting games. SF 2> Alpha> SF3>SF4. MvC1>2>3. So it can be expected that some older characters will get cut to make room for new ones. Also, I dunno where you've been, but I see Travis requested quite a lot. Maybe not on this forum, but outside of this place Travis is among the Most wanted 3rd party characters, and he sure is a hell of a lot more interesting than Pacman, or Megaman.

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Unlike those fighters you listed, Smash is a Nintendo crossover. Most of Smash's roster is occupied by Nintendo's all-stars, and cutting a large chunk of those characters to make room for characters with questionable popularity/importance to Nintendo just doesn't make sense.

shinpichu said:

Unlike those fighters you listed, Smash is a Nintendo crossover. Most of Smash's roster is occupied by Nintendo's all-stars, and cutting a large chunk of those characters to make room for characters with questionable popularity/importance to Nintendo just doesn't make sense.

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>Lucas
>Lucario
>Toon Link
>Wolf
>All Stars

Really now? You best take those fanboy goggles off now. Hell, I could keep going.

>ROB
>Olimar
>G&W
>Ice Climbers
>Ness
>C.Falcon
>All Stars

Most of Smash's unique and interesting characters are not "All Stars." In fact most of the cool unique characters are the under-represented and less known characters that became popular BECAUSE of Smash. If we follow this rule, most of my roster fits. If Smash was nothing but the biggest and best it'd be nothing but Mario, Zelda, DK and Pokemon filling the roster. Also, my roster was made with the idea that these characters would bring cool interesting playstyles to the table to make for a fun game. That's why it's absent of WA-WALUIGI, and Pacman, because they're boring and uninspiring, and people only want them out of blatant fanboyism. But I guess I should stop. I'm getting hyped for a roster that has little chance of happening. It's a dream roster with a some realism. Maybe I'll just wait for the WiiU to get hack and SSB4 along with it. Then I'll have my dream roster.

@ManlySpirit

I don't want to sound like a downer but...you know there's a chance we won't see ANY 3rd parties right? They're not shoe-ins. Not saying you think they are but there are lot of people that do, just because Solid Snake and Sonic got in a smash game. Imo one 3rd party would be enough this time around but I wouldn't be disappointed if we didn't get any at all.

@Habanero

I agree with what you said about Krystal.

@ Cider

I can see you point, and somewhat agree. But my roster isn't built around the idea of getting 3rd parties. Snake, Sonic and 2 more is good enough. Travis being my most wanted and Alisa (which VERY unlikely to happen) being number two. Simon could take Alisa's place, but he's Konami and not NAMCO.

Now the 1st parties. If out of the 14 not in Brawl that I posted, 10 don't make it, including Lyn and MM Link I will be disappointed. But well, I guess what matters the most is how the game plays. The hacking community will always make up for the shortcomings of the companies. It's best not to get too hyped for the game, because if Brawl is any indicator, it won't ever be as good as we want it to...

Such is the life of the gamer.

ManlySpirit said:

Stuff

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Maybe All-Stars wasn't the best choice of words. Still, a lot of the characters you replaced them with aren't exactly. A- or even B- List material either.

Also, I just noticed that two of your third parties has never appeared on a Nintendo system.

shinpichu said:

Maybe All-Stars wasn't the best choice of words. Still, a lot of the characters you replaced them with aren't exactly. A- or even B- List material either.

Also, I just noticed that two of your third parties has never appeared on a Nintendo system).

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Which ones? Alisa is in Project X Zone on the 3DS, Bayonetta is getting a WiiU exclusive, Travis has two Wii games, Megaman, Chun Li, and Simon need no explanation, and Lloyd had Tales of Symphonia on the GC.

Also, my support for Alisa, is simply because if we're getting a NAMCO character, she's the only one of their IP's I'd really like to see, simply because of the gameplay opportunities. Lloyd I don't care much for. Never played a Klonoa game, Pacman is boring, and anything from Tekken and SC is too generic and lame to fit in Smash (not to say the games are bad, but it's be like having Ryu in smash, too bland). The only other character from NAMCO that draws my attention is the girl from Xenosaga, I forget her name, but her robotic character design sure is interesting.

Where are you pulling these Lists from? Because it sounds like you are pulling them from your ***. ROB isn't exactly B- list material himself. Neither was Ness back when Smash 1 came out, the same could be said for Falcon. I agree with Armadillo, and the chick from Last Story.

Shulk, not so much, Little Mac and Isaac are strong contenders being previous assist trophies, and Captain Rainbow has potential as well. Layton is stated to be 3rd party, so now that that's clarified we can omit that. But everyone else is pretty solid.

Especially the top 4: MM Link, Lyndis, Ridley and Paletunia. Those are all from strong 1st party franchises (sadly my two most wanted have the lowest chance, but Lyn WAS an assist trophy, so who knows). Meowth as well, but I'm indifferent on his inclusion either way, I would prefer him over Puff, but if he doesn't make it, no big.