Stage Counterpick/Ban list UPDATED! *updates ban list later* =)

I want to make a list on Stage advantages and disadvantages for Falcon against a specific character. Starting from the top of the current Tier list, going down.

To clear things up, counterpicking doesn't mean that you have advantage over who your matched up against. Example: Falcon vs Falco, falcon has a slight disadvantage mainly because of the lasers. Taking Falco to PokeFloats makes it harder for him to approach with just SHL, move around, and combo you. But it doesn't mean you have advantage over him character wise, just that you took him to a stage he's not good at and falcon is. IMO in most cases its better to go to a stage you play best at.

The advantage from counterpicking is just taking an opponent to a stage they are not good at, or a stage that you play at best against someone.

Out of the Legal singles stages:

1. BattleField
2. Final Destination
3. DreamLand 64
4. Pokemon Stadium
5. Yoshi's Story
6. Fountain Of Dreams
7. Rainbow Cruise
8. Kongo Jungle (DK64)
9. Jungle Japes
10. Green Greens
11. Corneria
12. Brinstar
13. Mute City
14. PokeFloats
15. Onett
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Fox

Top Tier: DK64, Dreamland 64
Upper Tier: FD, PokeFloats, Yoshi's Story
Middle Tier: Pokemon Stadium
Lower Tier: FoD, Jungle Japes, Rainbow Cruise, BattleField, Brinstar
Bottom Tier: Onett, Corneria, Green Greens, Mute City
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Falco

Top Tier: PokeFloats
Upper Tier: DK64, Yoshi's Story
Middle Tier: Pokemon Stadium, Dreamland 64, Onett
Lower Tier: Rainbow Cruise, Mute City, Brinstar, BattleField
Bottom Tier: FoD, Jungle Japes, Green Greens, Corneria, FD
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Sheik
Top Tier: none
Upper Tier: PokeFloats, DK64
Middle Tier: FD, Dreamland 64, Pokemon Stadium
Lower Tier: Jungle Japes, FoD, Rainbow Cruise, Corneria
Bottom Tier: BattleField, Brinstar, Green Greens, Mute City, Onett
________________________________________________
Marth

Top Tier: Dreamland 64, DK64
Upper Tier: FD, PokeFloats
Middle Tier: Pokemon Stadium, Brinstar, Battlefield
Lower Tier: Yoshi's Story, Corneria, Rainbow Cruise, Onett
Bottom Tier: FoD, Green Greens, Jungle Japes, Mute City
________________________________________________
Peach

Top Tier: PokeFloats, Rainbow Cruise
Upper Tier: Yoshi's Story, DK64, Pokemon Stadium
Middle Tier: BattleField, FD, Jungle Japes
Lower Tier: Corneria, Dreamland 64, Brinstar
Bottom Tier: FoD Mute City, Green Greens, Onett
_______________________________________________
Ice Climbers

Top Tier: PokeFloats, Rainbow Cruise
Upper Tier: Dreamland 64, DK64, Yoshi's Story
Middle Tier: Pokemon Stadium, Jungle Japes, Battlefield
Lower Tier: Corneria, FoD, Brinstar
Bottom Tier: FD, Green Greens, Onett, Mute City
_______________________________________________
Samus

Top Tier: DK64, PokeFloats, Yoshi's Story
Upper Tier: FD, Rainbow Cruise
Middle Tier: Corneria, FoD, Pokemon Stadium
Lower Tier: Dreamland 64, BattleField, Brinstar
Bottom Tier: Green Greens, Onett, Jungle Japes, Mute City
_______________________________________________
Doctor Mario

Top Tier: PokeFloats, DK64
Upper Tier: Yoshi's Story, Pokemon Stadium, Rainbow Cruise
Middle Tier: FoD, Dreamland 64, Corneria, Brinstar
Lower Tier: Mute City, Jungle Japes
Bottom Tier: FD, BattleField, Green Greens, Onett
_______________________________________________
Jigglypuff

Top Tier: Yoshi's Story, PokeFloats, Rainbow Cruise
Upper Tier: DK64, Pokemon Stadium
Middle Tier: Battlefield, FD, Corneria
Lower Tier: Brinstar, FoD, Dreamland 64
Bottom Tier: Mute City, Green Greens, Onett, Jungle Japes
_______________________________________________
Mario

Top Tier: PokeFloats, DK64
Upper Tier: Yoshi's Story, Pokemon Stadium, Rainbow Cruise
Middle Tier: FoD, Dreamland 64, Corneria, Brinstar
Lower Tier: Mute City, Jungle Japes
Bottom Tier: FD, BattleField, Green Greens, Onett
_______________________________________________
Ganondorf

Top Tier: FD, PokeFloats, DK64
Upper Tier: Dreamland 64, Rainbow Cruise
Middle Tier: Corneria, Brinstar, Pokemon Stadium
Lower Tier: FoD, Green Greens, BattleField
Bottom Tier: Mute City,Yoshi's Story, Jungle Japes, Onett
_______________________________________________
Link

Top Tier: DK64, PokeFloats, Rainbow Cruise
Upper Tier: FD, Dreamland 64
Middle Tier: Pokemon Stadium, Yoshi's Story
Lower Tier: Corneria, Brinstar, BattleField
Bottom Tier: FoD, Jungle Japes, Green Greens, Onett, Mute City
_______________________________________________
Luigi

Top Tier: Yoshi's Story
Upper Tier: DK64, Dreamland 64, Jungle Japes
Middle Tier: Pokemon Stadium, FD, Corneria, PokeFloats, Rainbow Cruise
Lower Tier: Mute City, FoD, BattleField
Bottom Tier: Green Greens, Onett
_______________________________________________
Donkey Kong

Top Tier: PokeFloats, Rainbow Cruise, DK64
Upper Tier: Dreamland 64
Middle Tier: Pokemon Stadium, Yoshi's Story
Lower Tier: FD, Corneria, FoD, Jungle Japes
Bottom Tier: BattleField, Brinstar, Green Greens, Onett, Mute City
_______________________________________________
Roy

Top Tier: Dreamland 64, DK64, PokeFloats, FD
Upper Tier: Pokemon Stadium, Rainbow Cruise
Middle Tier: Brinstar, Corneria
Lower Tier: Yoshi's Story, FoD
Bottom Tier: Jungle Japes, Green Greens, Onett, Mute City, BattleField
________________________________________________
Young Link

Top Tier: DK64, PokeFloats
Upper Tier: FD, Dreamland 64, Yoshi's Story, Rainbow Cruise
Middle Tier: Battlefield, Pokemon Stadium
Lower Tier: Corneria, FoD, Mute City, Brinstar
Bottom Tier: Jungle Japes, Green Greens, Onett
_______________________________________________
Pikachu

Top Tier: Dreamland 64
Upper Tier: PokeFloats, Yoshi's Story, DK64
Middle Tier: Pokemon Stadium, FoD, Brinstar, FD, Rainbow Cruise
Lower Tier: Corneria, BattleField
Bottom Tier: Jungle Japes, Green Greens, Onett, Mute City
_______________________________________________
Yoshi

Top Tier: Yoshi's Story, Pokefloats
Upper Tier: FD, Dreamland 64, Brinstar, DK64, Rainbow Cruise, Battlefiled
Middle Tier: Mute City, Pokemon Stadium, FoD
Lower Tier: Corneria
Bottom Tier: Jungle Japes, Green Greens, Onett
_______________________________________________
Zelda

Top Tier: Pokefloats, Yoshi's Story, Rainbow Cruise
Upper Tier: FoD, Brinstar, DK64, FD
Middle Tier: BattleField, Pokemon Stadium, Mute City
Lower Tier: Corneria, Dreamland 64
Bottom Tier: Jungle Japes, Green Greens, Onett
_______________________________________________
Mr. Game & Watch

Top Tier: Yoshi's Story, PokeFloats, DK64
Upper Tier: FD, Pokemon Stadium, Rainbow Cruise, Dreamland 64
Middle Tier: FoD, Battlefield, Brinstar
Lower Tier: Corneria, Mute City
Bottom Tier: Jungle Japes, Green Greens, Onett
_______________________________________________
Ness

Top Tier: Yoshi's Story, PokeFloats, FD
Upper Tier: DK64, Brinstar, Pokemon Stadium, Rainbow Cruise, Dreamland 64
Middle Tier: Battlefield, Mute City, FoD
Lower Tier: Corneria
Bottom Tier: Jungle Japes, Green Greens, Onett
_______________________________________________
Bowser

Top Tier: PokeFloats, Rainbow Cruise
Upper Tier: DK64, FD, Pokemon Stadium, Dreamland 64
Middle Tier: Brinstar,
Lower Tier: Corneria, Yoshi's Story, FoD, BattleField
Bottom Tier: Mute City, Jungle Japes, Green Greens, Onett
_______________________________________________
Kirby

Top Tier: Yoshi's Story, PokeFloats, DK64
Upper Tier: Battlefield, FD, Rainbow Cruise, Pokemon Stadium, Onett
Middle Tier: Dreamlamd 64, FoD, Brinstar
Lower Tier: Corneria, Mute City
Bottom Tier: Jungle Japes, Green Greens
_______________________________________________
Pichu

Top Tier: Dreamland 64, Yoshi's Story, PokeFloats
Upper Tier: DK64
Middle Tier: Pokemon Stadium, FoD, Brinstar, FD, Rainbow Cruise
Lower Tier: Corneria, BattleField
Bottom Tier: Jungle Japes, Green Greens, Onett, Mute City
_______________________________________________
Mewtwo

Top Tier: Yoshi's Story, PokeFloats, DK64
Upper Tier: Dreamland 64, Jungle Japes, Rainbow Cruise
Middle Tier: Battlefield, FoD, Mute City, Pokemon Stadium
Lower Tier: Brinstar, FD
Bottom Tier: Green Greens, Onett, Corneria

Larger stages such as Final Destination and Pokemon Stadium are usually the best choices for Captain Falcon counter picks. Then again, I have seen Isai choose Poke Floats as a counter pick stage before.

isai loves poke floats, but v peach its not good, v all the other ones tho it aint a bad choice.

kongo jungle is ok v spacies

RapeFalcon said:

Out of the following stages:
All neutrals
Rainbow Cruise
DK64
Princess Peach's Castle
Kongo Jungle
Jungle Japes
Green Greens
Corneria
Brinstar
Mute City
PokeFloats

Which stages are best for falcon against fox, falco, marth, sheik, and specially peach.

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wtf? Kongo Jungle (not 64) is legal in your area? o.O

fox -> DK64, Brinstar, Dreamland
falco -> DK64, Brinstar, Princess Peach's Castle
marth -> DK64, Final Destination
Sheik -> DK64, Battlefield (note: there isn't really a solid sheik counterpick.. you just have to practice this match)
Peach -> DK64, Brinstar, Yoshi's Story, Rainbow Cruise (sort of.. once you pass the boat its pretty good)

DK64 and Brinstar are generally amazing Falcon stages.. Yoshi's Story is overrated as a Falcon stage IMO. yeah, it's great in some cases but in no way his best stage which a LOT of people make it out to be.

in general never pick Mute City, Green Greens, Corneria, Kongo Jungle (since when is that legal btw? u mean jungle japes? japes is a bad falcon stage btw as well)

yea im a falcon player...
i really need to know falcon counterpick

Hax have good advices =]
what about pokefloats ? is that good for falcon ?

Hax great post, just what I needed. btw I just copied a list I found about the stages, I dont know if its right.

pokefloats + falcon = absolute ****. i have seen too much silentspectre and isai **** there to say otherwise. learn how to move around on that stage and know when the chansey/wobbufett/unowns/etc come in... and you're solid. it's a good counter pick NO MATTER WHAT CHARACTER you're facing because nobody can move like falcon can there. my 2 cents

Mute city is a solid counterpick vs. Sheik, it takes away her edgeguarding and puts the emphasis on her comparatively weaker smashes and your knee for horizontal KOs (sheik can't KO you vertically until like 150%).

Poke Floats is a sexy falcon stage, DL64 is solid too. Japes is fine just gotta get used to it. I could never get the hang of rainbow cruise, as well as trouble with Marth/Fox there, but I think it's OK against Peach.

technomancer said:

Mute city is a solid counterpick vs. Sheik, it takes away her edgeguarding and puts the emphasis on her comparatively weaker smashes and your knee for horizontal KOs (sheik can't KO you vertically until like 150%).

Poke Floats is a sexy falcon stage, DL64 is solid too. Japes is fine just gotta get used to it. I could never get the hang of rainbow cruise, as well as trouble with Marth/Fox there, but I think it's OK against Peach.

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sheik is great on mute city.. once you reach the portions of the stage that don't have ledges it's basically impossible to get back on the stage (she just has to nair-spam). another portion of mute city has walls which sheik abuses a lot better than falcon. also since when does sheik even KO vertically with moves other than uair? her horizontal edgeguarding ability against falcon is up there with fox and marth; if you aren't able to tech off anything you're ****ed.

floats is supposedly decent although once again no ledges hurts falcon a lot more than other characters; thankfully there are a lot of statues to save you from being gimped.

the best anti-sheik stages are probably yoshi's, battlefield and DK64. yoshi's and battlefield are great because the generic 3-platform layout is very good for falcon; yoshi's is great because you can knee her through the platform without doing a fulljump so its a LOT easier. dk64 is great as always because it's dk64; falcon's recovery isn't so crappy on this stage and the platform layout is great for him.

a few questions

1 why is DK64 such a good stage for Falcon?

2 what about good counteerpicks against ICs

'3 Which stages are best to ban against fox, falco, marth, sheik, and peach.

I wouldn't recommend Floats as a counterpick against anybody, really. Matches there will generally be decided by who's better at taking advantage of the stage's gay little quirks and idiosyncrasies. In other words, you could maybe pick it against people whom you are positive are not familiar with the stage, but not against any particular character.

Hax: I disagree with the bit about ledges. Falcon pretty much can't make it back on any stage. The lack of ledges will handicap a number of other characters, while Falcon won't be that much worse off that he is on any other stage.

I think Pokemon Stadium is just a great Falcon stage in general. I'm kind of surprised that nobody's mentioned it. I can see how Brinstar and DK64 would be good for Falcon, although I don't have much experience with either stage myself. Personally, I think the best counterpick stage is usually whichever one you're most comfortable with.

ZoSo said:

I wouldn't recommend Floats as a counterpick against anybody, really. Matches there will generally be decided by who's better at taking advantage of the stage's gay little quirks and idiosyncrasies.

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of which falcon is the best at taking advantage of. as somebody said earlier his ability to move around the stage is unmatched. i've seen isai get some sick *** combos there too.

ZoSo said:

I wouldn't recommend Floats as a counterpick against anybody, really. Matches there will generally be decided by who's better at taking advantage of the stage's gay little quirks and idiosyncrasies. In other words, you could maybe pick it against people whom you are positive are not familiar with the stage, but not against any particular character.

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what's your point? if you know nothing about pokefloats of course don't counterpick it. BUT it's really really really worth it to get to know the stage. Why? Because as an above poster said, Falcon can move and jump faster and further than anybody else in the game, giving him a distinct advantage on a stage that's always morphing and moving. There's definitely a reason Isai always counterpicks it.

RapeFalcon said:

what about good counteerpicks against ICs

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pokefloats

Brinstar Depths (non-rotating one, obv) would be a good CP against Icies too.

Falcon is one of the only characters that has no bad stages
Falcon is pretty good at all the stages but his best are probley
Dreamland 64 and Final Destination

a good counter pick for Ice Climbers is poke floats or rainbow cruise
both are good with Falcon because he can manuver so well and Ice climbers cant

the changning stages (poke floats and Rainbow) are good against ICs in general

falcon def takes advantage of Stadium and FD. Dreamland also since its pretty wide with a high ceiling. Falcons main kills are horizontal rather than verticle

RapeFalcon said:

a few questions

1 why is DK64 such a good stage for Falcon?

2 what about good counteerpicks against ICs

'3 Which stages are best to ban against fox, falco, marth, sheik, and peach.

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1.i consider DK64 to be falcon's best stage because the 2 platforms on opposite sides make it MUCH harder for characters to edgeguard you. if you land on those, you can DI your opponent's hit (they'll hit you in an attempt to edgeguard you) and then you can downb so you're under the stage, then use your extra jump + a uair to get back on the stage. here are some of the pros DK64 gives you against competitive characters.

fox -> barrel and opposite platforms make this the only stage other than brinstar you have a remote CHANCE of recovering on. the middle of the stage is slanted and allows you to dodge lasers, and move in with a nair -> grab.
falco -> same as fox pretty much except in this case his upb is crappy so he can't even reach the platforms at the top of the stage. slanted stage helps once again for dodging shl's and getting grabs; barrel makes recovery a lot easier.
sheik -> i'll admit sheik doesn't really have a 'bad' stage, however sheik will never be using the top platforms to recover on because falcon is able to punish with a knee. the rotating platforms are great for avoiding her platform techchasing.
marth -> it's hard for marth to edgeguard you here because you can upb onto the upper platforms and the best he can punish you with are his weak aerials. he can't platform techchase you on the rotating platforms at all, and the barrel is borderline-useless for him because his horizontal aerial movement is junk.
samus -> she can't grapple-beam to recover, which kills her durability. the best counterpick against samus without a doubt.

so yeah.. just some examples.

2.ic's don't really have a great counterpick, however you have to stick with large stages for you to move around in, such as poke floats and pokemon stadium. FD qualifies as a large stage however IC's are horrible platform techchasers so you have to take advantage of that; brinstar and dk64 are good because it makes it hard for them to edgeguard you. on dk64, IC's can't punish you at all if you up-b onto the upper platforms.

rainbow cruise is good too, just don't pick FoD.

3.judging by my personal experience, i ban FoD against nearly every character just because falcon needs room to move around in which FoD doesn't have, and the platforms **** up your aerials at random. i would definitely ban FoD against peach (downsmash -_-), and experienced falco's because of superpillar and other stuff. against fox you could also ban onett or pp's castle, but.. i really don't like FoD. ;x

Rage. said:

Falcon is one of the only characters that has no bad stages
Falcon is pretty good at all the stages but his best are probley
Dreamland 64 and Final Destination

a good counter pick for Ice Climbers is poke floats or rainbow cruise
both are good with Falcon because he can manuver so well and Ice climbers cant

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i consider FoD a bad falcon stage, lol.

ZoSo said:

Hax: I disagree with the bit about ledges. Falcon pretty much can't make it back on any stage. The lack of ledges will handicap a number of other characters, while Falcon won't be that much worse off that he is on any other stage.

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if you tech well you can sweetspot ledges and tech anything the opponent uses in an attempt to edgeguard and then follow with an upb to knock them away. falcon's up-b is bad, but it gives you mindgaming options. you can up-b, and if there's a fox on the ledge about to bair, you can suddenly pull back and grab the ledge when he bairs. teching and sweetspotting increases falcon's durability a LOT; without it he'd get gimped waaay too easily.

Rage. said:

Falcon is one of the only characters that has no bad stages
Falcon is pretty good at all the stages but his best are probley
Dreamland 64 and Final Destination

a good counter pick for Ice Climbers is poke floats or rainbow cruise
both are good with Falcon because he can manuver so well and Ice climbers cant

Click to expand...

I disagree. FoD and Yoshi's story are not good Falcon stages.

REDRAGON said:

I disagree. FoD and Yoshi's story are not good Falcon stages.

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really? I like Yoshi story as a Falcon stage.
FoD is okay as a falcon stage in my opinion. the moving platforms arent too bad

FoD is a bad falcon stage and that's that. the low *** platforms mess with his shffl's.


yoshi's story is good bc the plats are knee and usmash trapz.

yoshi's story is a great falcon stage since the platform layout is very good for him, but i'd rather take better recovery options from stages such as DK64/Brinstar over a good platform layout. DK64/Brinstar/Yoshi's are very similar stages in a way; they offer recovery options other stages don't have (barrel/lava/cloud) and the platform layouts are great. i consider these to be the 3 best falcon stages, though i still prefer the former 2 because the cloud on yoshi's isn't as reliable as the barrel on DK64 nor the lava at brinstar.

Hax said:

yoshi's story is a great falcon stage since the platform layout is very good for him, but i'd rather take better recovery options from stages such as DK64/Brinstar over a good platform layout. DK64/Brinstar/Yoshi's are very similar stages in a way; they offer recovery options other stages don't have (barrel/lava/cloud) and the platform layouts are great. i consider these to be the 3 best falcon stages, though i still prefer the former 2 because the cloud on yoshi's isn't as reliable as the barrel on DK64 nor the lava at brinstar.

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I dont know dude....
I mean i know Marth players, such as Ken, ALWAYS take Falcons to Yoshis story and they usally pwn on it...
Falcon seems to play very well with open space.
Having a random recovery is nice, but the openness of stages like Fd, and Dl64 seem overall better for Falcon.

FD is a good stage if you can't platform techchase with stomps, which you should be doing. the only thing DL64 really has going for it is the high ceiling; it's so big horizontally to the point where knees arent nearly as good.

just because 1 person with 1 character beats a falcon on yoshi's doesn't mean it's a bad stage. out of the 6 neutral stages (unless DK64 is neutral in your area..) yoshi's is the best falcon stage. you're able to move around the stage with fulljumps, and knees at ~45% can kill opponents; plus you can knee through the platforms. it even has a cloud to aid your ****ty recovery. that's a good stage.

REDRAGON said:

I dont know dude....
I mean i know Marth players, such as Ken, ALWAYS take Falcons to Yoshis story and they usally pwn on it...
Falcon seems to play very well with open space.
Having a random recovery is nice, but the openness of stages like Fd, and Dl64 seem overall better for Falcon.

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ok? PC Chris who doesn't even main captain falcon took M2K's marth there and beat him.


your point is very invalid.




still i'm sticking by the idea that poke floats is cf's best stage. albeit very odd.

I'd agree with mana lord on having poke floats as falcon's best stage. I've played a good falcon on final destination and then on yoshi's story..but poke floats is absolutely brutal, its like a totally different falcon..and me being marth, he screws me over easily there.

thebluedeath1000 said:

I'd agree with mana lord on having poke floats as falcon's best stage. I've played a good falcon on final destination and then on yoshi's story..but poke floats is absolutely brutal, its like a totally different falcon..and me being marth, he screws me over easily there.

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the main problem i have with floats is that if the opponent doesn't follow you around and plays defensively, then it isn't a very good counterpick. if they're cautious and wait for you to come to them, it doesn't offer too many advantages (although falcon is great when the unown's appear because then the opponent is forced to move around which gives you opportunities).

They really can't wait for you to come at them as they have to be moving about due to constant changes..they are bound to give an opening.

cap falcon ***** with approach on taht stage tho. taht's the dizzle. your opponent cant move. you keep pressure on them in one place and when it comes time to move, you get there first, then what, they done lolz.

For now i'll go with DK64 as falcon's best since im not too familiar with the randomness of poke floats.

The only downside i could see with DK64 is that you can't edgetech. But that's kinda minor.

it's actually a lot better to have a ledge with no wall rather than a techable wall for falcon imo; its also amazing how he can go through the bottom of the stage.

for fighting a fox or falco, i like mute city, lots of place to move.

BPBP said:

for fighting a fox or falco, i like mute city, lots of place to move.

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wtf? IMO mute city is a not such a good stage for falcon because there is no room to move and there aren't any ledges

I play FD against Fox/Falco the most because there is a lot of running space for combos and tech chasing.

BPBP said:

for fighting a fox or falco, i like mute city, lots of place to move.

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that's one of the worst stages against fox. it's like FD except there's even a wall at one point and there aren't edges.. any half-decent fox will waveshine you off with ease i mean the only thing saving you from waveshines are ledges.

chunga said:

I play FD against Fox/Falco the most because there is a lot of running space for combos and tech chasing.

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a lot of stages provide running space, and falcon excels on platforms. platformtechchasing w/ stomps is brutal.

just trying to make sure; falcon's worst stages against fox are Mute city and pp's castle right?

and green greens.

is Onett tournament legal? if yes is it any good for falcon?