Official Square-Enix Characters For Super Smash Bros. Brawl Discussion Topic

JoshuaAmaron · Jun 19, 2007

I heard that it's actually Disney that owns Sora, not SquareEnix. I guess if he was in Sakurai's poll, he must be considering him though. I guess it doesn't really matter who owns him, he'll just have to contact that company.

LukeFonFabre · Jun 19, 2007

Yeah, but if it is disney then he can't really be added as a SE addition.

As for Geno, I can honestly say that I never heard of him until Brawl was announced last year, mainly because SMRPG wasn't released over here (though neither was Chrono Trigger, but I've heard of Crono plenty of times before). Then when I came to this site he was practically in my face

I suppose I wouldn't hate him getting in, but has a surprisingly huge fanbase (at least in these forums, don't know about elsewhere).

Chief Mendez · Jun 19, 2007

LukeFonFabre said:
at least in these forums, don't know about elsewhere

Exactly. It's not like I don't frequent other forums that are much different from SWF, and I had never heard mention of Geno for Brawl anywhere else.

As for Sora, I'd still consider him a Square character, even if technically he's owned by Disney. Most people don't see Geno as a Square character, even if technically that's who own him.

Copperpot · Jun 20, 2007

Chief Mendez said:
Like that matters? I myself didn't even remember who Geno was until I started coming here. He's a silly character from a silly game, and frankly, I'd take almost anyone else over him.

Smash Bros in itself is a 'silly game'. IE: Beating up on cartoony nintendo franchises in order to knock them off cliffs?

If anything, you're just reinforcing the fact that he fits the profile of a Smash character.

Chief Mendez · Jun 20, 2007

^^^
Okay, let me rephrase that: "He's a stupid character from a stupid game..."

Really, he's just an NPC from what's basically Paper Mario 0.5. What makes him so much cooler than Cpt. Bobbery or Rawk Hawk? He only had one game, and a very niche one at that. I still have no clue why he's so darn popular around here...

EDIT - ...Especially as a 3rd party candidate. We're talking about a game that's so consistently fun, that it can be played regularly for over half a decade without losing it's awesome, and now there's a chance that practically any videogame character can be included...and everyone wants some random party member from an outdated RPG? No Simon Belmont? No Viewtiful Joe? No Megaman? No Sonic? No Ryu Hayabusa? No Django? No Sora? No Phoenix Wright? No Pac-Man? No Dan Hibiki? No Nightmare? No Alastor? No Leon? No Harman Smith? I just...don't ...get it.

Copperpot · Jun 20, 2007

Just playing devil's advocate for the sake of discussion:

Firstly, Geno wasn't an NPC. He was quite possibly the most pivotal, playable character in SMRPG. As far as the whole 'stupid' comment is concerned, that's a thought that you appear to share with the minority of people that have actually played the game (I thought it was great). Why do you think he's so popular?

Also, I've played through Paper Mario and SMRPG, and honestly, it's like comparing Baseball to Basketball. Sure, they both involve a ball, but they have a lot of unique features in their own right. Calling it a '0.5' doesn't do either side justice.

Furthermore, I'm a huge Megaman fan (moreso than probably any other video game character), but you don't see me spouting that Geno's going to take his spot in the game. If anything, Brawl's inclusion of Megaman wouldn't be any more gratifying to me than picking up a copy of Marvel vs. Capcom and going to town Dreamcast style.

Fawriel · Jun 20, 2007

Such is cult classics, Chief. Earthbound is an old game and it still has avid fans and Ness has been in both Smash games so far.
SMRPG and Earthbound are quite similar in some respects, and there's a community of people who are still fans. Don't ask me where this community is, but it obviously exists.
And Geno is simply the most awesome character in the game, especially if you exclude those who are Mario universe staples.

There's a pretty awesome song about the game produced by someone called Märta. Here's a flash made from it: http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/382576
The flash itself isn't too great but has its moments, and the song is unfortunately not very high-quality. Can't find out where to download the original for some reason.

Chief Mendez · Jun 20, 2007

Fawriel said:
There's a pretty awesome song about the game produced by someone called Märta. Here's a flash made from it: http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/382576
The flash itself isn't too great but has its moments, and the song is unfortunately not very high-quality. Can't find out where to download the original for some reason.

That was...pretty spiffy.

I still don't get the Geno thing though. That song seemed more concerned with getting lost in some woods...

Fawriel said:
Such is cult classics, Chief. Earthbound is an old game and it still has avid fans and Ness has been in both Smash games so far.

Yes. Ness...the main character of the game. The only character from the game in Smash. Despite Pokey's obvious superiority...he was passed over twice. A niche game shouldn't be getting more than one character, and that one character should be the main character/the most important character in the game, which, in this case, isn't Geno.

Copperpot said:
Firstly, Geno wasn't an NPC. He was quite possibly the most pivotal, playable character in SMRPG. As far as the whole 'stupid' comment is concerned, that's a thought that you appear to share with the minority of people that have actually played the game (I thought it was great). Why do you think he's so popular?

Okay, I had meant to fox that, but you caught me.

Yeah, I'm pretty much the only guy on here who doesn't like the Mario RPGs (besides Superstar Saga, that is).

Copperpot said:
Also, I've played through Paper Mario and SMRPG, and honestly, it's like comparing Baseball to Basketball. Sure, they both involve a ball, but they have a lot of unique features in their own right. Calling it a '0.5' doesn't do either side justice.

Really? THey both have a same-styled battle system, they both involve Mario saving Peach, and they're both RPGs. The only real noticeable difference is the Squaresoft feel of SMRPG, and by that, I mean the game wasn't funny.

Copperpot said:
Furthermore, I'm a huge Megaman fan (moreso than probably any other video game character), but you don't see me spouting that Geno's going to take his spot in the game. If anything, Brawl's inclusion of Megaman wouldn't be any more gratifying to me than picking up a copy of Marvel vs. Capcom and going to town Dreamcast style.

It's not that Geno would take someone's spot...well, actually it is. Really, is there no other game character besides Megaman that you'd like to see in Brawl? There are, most likely, only two more 3rd party slots to be filled, and one of them, it seems, will be taken by Sonic. Or at least some company's mascot. Which Geno is not.

Fawriel · Jun 20, 2007

The song was a remix of the most popular song from SMRPG that plays in the Forest Maze, and this forest maze is associated with the most popular character, Geno. Note how the song refers to it as "Geno's maze".
And he's not the main character, but the most important and the most main character who was originally created for the game.
He could also represent a certain diplomatic bond between Squenix and Nintendo as he's from the game which, I think, was their first collaboration.
And he had a cameo in another Mario RPG, with the permission of Squenix.

Chief Mendez · Jun 20, 2007

^^^
The cameo was in Superstar Saga, although at the time, I didn't know who he was.

Fawriel said:
And he's not the main character, but the most important and the most main character who was originally created for the game.

Whcih only hurts his case. He's not a main character, he's competing against virtually every other iconic videogame character, and his game was one and niche.

Copperpot · Jun 20, 2007

Not necessarily. He wasn't the main character, but only because Mario was. Geno could have just as easily been the main role in that game (and, in a way, he was after he joined your party). Mario's was present in the game strictly to reinforce the fact that you were running around in his world, and that's it. Geno had the story. Geno had the purpose. Geno had the move that would make most other RPG characters cry like little girls (Whirl, for those that don't know).

EDIT:

Also wanted to respond to your comment about SMRPG and 'rescuing the Princess'. Really, saving Peach is done by the time you reach a quarter of the way through the game.

Also, I'd like to point out that SMRPG was the first game that you could actually control Bowser (on foot, save the Mario Kart's and sports games for the Nascar nuts and jocks). I guess they shouldn't have put him in Smash Bros because he isn't the main character, nor did he play a crucial role in the game? Come to think of it, virtually all of the villains aren't main characters (bye bye Ridley?).

Just wanted to point out that I feel it is a very flawed thought.

Chief Mendez · Jun 20, 2007

Copperpot said:
Not necessarily. He wasn't the main character, but only because Mario was. Geno could have just as easily been the main role in that game (and, in a way, he was after he joined your party). Mario's was present in the game strictly to reinforce the fact that you were running around in his world, and that's it. Geno had the story. Geno had the purpose.

Okay, I see what you mean. That sort of argument's used by Midna supporters (like me) too.

Also wanted to respond to your comment about SMRPG and 'rescuing the Princess'. Really, saving Peach is done by the time you reach a quarter of the way through the game.

And then it turns into the generic Squaresoft storyline. That's the primary reason I didn't like the game. Anyway, point taken.

Also, I'd like to point out that SMRPG was the first game that you could actually control Bowser (on foot, save the Mario Kart's and sports games for the Nascar nuts and jocks). I guess they shouldn't have put him in Smash Bros because he isn't the main character, nor did he play a crucial role in the game? Come to think of it, virtually all of the villains aren't main characters (bye bye Ridley?).

But Bowser was always the villain in most every other Mario game. Geno has this one game, where he isn't the primary character (rather the primary protagonist), or the villain. With Smash, it seems to go something like this: hero, sidekick, bad guy. Geno's not the hero (that's Mario), he is the sidekick, and Bowser had other, more prominent roles that got him into Melee. The problem is that unlike Bowser and Mario, who both have much more respected credentials, Geno has one old and *relatively* obscure game.

My only argument with "Geno's not the hero" was to lower his importance, but I don't think that's necessary anymore. I think I'll stick to my: "there's only two more slots for 3rd party characters" thing.

Fawriel · Jun 20, 2007

It's also arguable whether there ARE "third party slots". I think the amount of possible third parties was completely undetermined in the beginning and only depended on who Sakurai wants and who the third party firms want in the game and how much. I doubt that if there were several third party firms trying to push for their characters Sakurai would be all like "I'd like all of them but we decided on only 3 3rd party characters because 3 is a nice number!"

Chief Mendez · Jun 20, 2007

^^^
Well, that's assuming that all those companies are willing to give up their IPs for nothing. In that case, sure, bring em' all on!

But that's not going to happen. The other possibility is if Mikami wants Leon in and threatens to decapitate himself again. Snake's in because Kojima asked for it to happen, but that's probably a special case. Expect other 3rd party candidates to get paid for their characters.

I mean, look at it this way: Sakurai said "only 2 or 3", right? Why would he have given that number? Probably because 1) that's how many the budget could afford, or 2) that's how many people were asking for their character(s) to be included.

All that aside, you could be right. I'm just trying to reason things out logically here, but I could be dead wrong, and there could be 10+ 3rd party characters. But even then, I (and others, I'm sure) could come up with a list of 10 non-Nintendo characters that'd be better picks than Geno.

YosterDragon · Jun 20, 2007

Chief Mendez said:
EDIT - ...Especially as a 3rd party candidate. We're talking about a game that's so consistently fun, that it can be played regularly for over half a decade without losing it's awesome, and now there's a chance that practically any videogame character can be included...and everyone wants some random party member from an outdated RPG? No Simon Belmont? No Viewtiful Joe? No Megaman? No Sonic? No Ryu Hayabusa? No Django? No Sora? No Phoenix Wright? No Pac-Man? No Dan Hibiki? No Nightmare? No Alastor? No Leon? No Harman Smith? I just...don't ...get it.

You, good sir, get bonus points for suggesting the one and only Solar Boy

But to stay on topic, I see the Geno argument this way. Yes, he's technically a third party character, and would have to use up one of the third party slots. Assuming Square Enix has laid claim to one of those spots, we've got our standard 3 contenders (I know there are more, this is just an example): Sora, Crono, and Geno.

Sora: I still really don't get this. He was born and thrives on a Sony console, and the (relative) worst game in his series is the only one that barely makes him eligible for Brawl. I am a KH fan, but I really don't think Sora belongs in Brawl.

Crono: An old-school hero from one of the best RPGs ever? Plus! Created for the SNES? Plus! Character that could combine katana action with light magic? Plus! I'd almost say that Crono's spot was a gimmie as Square Enix's rep, if it weren't for...

Geno: Mendez brings up some good points to counter the Geno fanboys, and vice versa. "Geno's a cult favorite!" "But he's too obscure!" "He fits in so well!" "But he'd waste a third party slot!" Well, the way I see it, Geno is the best way to spend Square Enix's third party slot. Why? Geno is a Square Enix creation tailor made for the Mario universe. The SSB series has always been a game to showcase Nintendo's mascots, and it seems most fitting to me that a character made by a third party company specifically to fit in the Nintendo universe trumps characters from franchises that have nothing to do with Nintendo. Especially a character with the cult following that Geno has.

No using technicalities to consider him for eligibility *cough* Sora *cough*, no squabbling over whether he fits in the SSB style. Seems like the easy choice for a Square Enix rep to me. But hey, that's just my opinion. To each his own

Granted, if you really want to go for easy Square Enix recognizability, you could make an awesome character out of the old school Black Mage :chuckle:

powerchord89 · Jun 20, 2007

honestly, i think geno is the only one who stands a chance. SMRPG, even though it was created by square, is very much a 'mario' game. The rest really have little to do with nintendo, and even though i'm a huuuuge fan of all of the games these characters are from, i don't associate them so much with nintendo.

Black/Light · Jun 21, 2007

C-M and I may not agree on much but I have to stand with him on this one.

The ONLY way I see Geno getting in is if by some chance Nintendo owns him (they don't) or if he is 2nd to another S-E character who is more important and well known.

Really, Geno being the sole rep for S-E is like. . . having GameFreak's sole rep be Aipom or Sega having one of the animals from it's Monkey music game be their sole rep.

I just can't see S-E having a side character they did 10 years ago for a Mario rpg game be the mascott for their company. I see Cloud/ New FF:CC guy (FF:CC was MADE for Nintendo consoles)/ Black Mage/ Chocobo/ Moogle and even Chrono ALL being better reps for S-E's most well known series.

Chief Mendez · Jun 21, 2007

^^^
OH GODS! HELL HATH COMPLETELY FROZE!!

powerchord89 said:
honestly, i think geno is the only one who stands a chance. SMRPG, even though it was created by square, is very much a 'mario' game. The rest really have little to do with nintendo, and even though i'm a huuuuge fan of all of the games these characters are from, i don't associate them so much with nintendo.

Yeah, a good S-E rep is pretty hard to decide on. It just goes to show you how little they've had to do with Nintendo over the last decade or so.

...uh, Black Mage for the win?

YosterDragon said:
You, good sir, get bonus points for suggesting the one and only Solar Boy.

Hey, it just came to me. I'd root for him...if I wasn't already rooting for so many oher Konami people...

YosterDragon said:
...and the (relative) worst game in his series is the only one that barely makes him eligible for Brawl.

No way. The first game was much worse than CoM. Of course, the 2nd one blows both of them away.

But I see what you're saying.

YosterDragon said:
The SSB series has always been a game to showcase Nintendo's mascots.

I managed to boil that paragraph down to this one little sentence.

While it's true that Smash has always been about 'Nintendo's Best', that's simply not the case anymore. Not only is Snake not a Nintendo character, but he's not even very well associated with the company, yet...there he is. Snake was the first 3rd party character added, and so all we can do now is follow his example, even if that turns out to be wrong in the end.

I should again add that these boards are the only place I'd heard the name "Geno" in at least four or five years. He can't have as much of a cult following as Crono or Frog (Gato ftw!), at any rate.

ChronoBound · Jun 21, 2007

Here's a list of the new character analyses that I will be posting later today:

Firion (Final Fantasy II)
Hero from Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers (FFCC:TCB)
Mallow (Super Mario RPG)
Magnus Gallant (Ogre Battle 64)
Dragonlord (Dragon Quest)
Princess Moonbrooke (Dragon Quest II)
Alena (Dragon Quest IV)
Cristo (Dragon Quest IV)
Torneko (Dragon Quest IV)
Bianca (Dragon Quest V)
Hassan (Dragon Quest VI)
Terry (Dragon Quest VI)
Keifer (Dragon Quest VII)
Yangus (Dragon Quest VIII)
Jessica (Dragon Quest VIII)
Angelo (Dragon Quest VIII)

ChronoBound · Jun 21, 2007

I've updated with the new characters. However, I put all of the Dragon Quest characters in the second post I made in this topic.

YosterDragon · Jun 21, 2007

Chief Mendez said:
Yeah, a good S-E rep is pretty hard to decide on. It just goes to show you how little they've had to do with Nintendo over the last decade or so.

...uh, Black Mage for the win?

Ain't that the truth. GBA remakes aside, S-E still doesn't support the big N like they used to. And the more I think about it, the more I really think the basic FF1 Black Mage would be a great S-E rep for Brawl. Maybe I'll have to try coming up with a moveset...not that it'll make the S-E rep choice any easier.

Chief Mendez said:
Hey, it just came to me. I'd root for him...if I wasn't already rooting for so many oher Konami people...

Indeed, so many good choices. I'd probably wet myself if the likes of Simon Belmont and Django made it in. Vic Viper for Brawl?

Chief Mendez said:
No way. The first game was much worse than CoM. Of course, the 2nd one blows both of them away.

But I see what you're saying.

Yeah, KH2 was definitely the best of the 3; I guess I just didn't care for CoM so much. In any case, I think we can both agree that there are much better S-E reps than Sora.

Chief Mendez said:
I managed to boil that paragraph down to this one little sentence.

Yeah, I'm a bit long-winded sometimes :laugh:

Chief Mendez said:
While it's true that Smash has always been about 'Nintendo's Best', that's simply not the case anymore. Not only is Snake not a Nintendo character, but he's not even very well associated with the company, yet...there he is. Snake was the first 3rd party character added, and so all we can do now is follow his example, even if that turns out to be wrong in the end.

That is a good point. If Snake, practically one of Sony's mascots, made it in, I guess all bets are really off. Provided at least one Nintendo platform appearance, of course.

Chief Mendez said:
I should again add that these boards are the only place I'd heard the name "Geno" in at least four or five years. He can't have as much of a cult following as Crono or Frog (Gato ftw!), at any rate.

I remember my friends and I hoping Geno would be in Melee, lol. But we're bigtime old school gamers, so I guess we fit in with the cult following crowd. And I agree, Crono & Co. definitely have a cult following as well *raises hand*

@Chronobound, looking forward to seeing all those analyses, looks like they'll be a good read :chuckle:

Copperpot · Jun 21, 2007

Chief Mendez said:
I managed to boil that paragraph down to this one little sentence.

While it's true that Smash has always been about 'Nintendo's Best', that's simply not the case anymore. Not only is Snake not a Nintendo character, but he's not even very well associated with the company, yet...there he is. Snake was the first 3rd party character added, and so all we can do now is follow his example, even if that turns out to be wrong in the end.

I should again add that these boards are the only place I'd heard the name "Geno" in at least four or five years. He can't have as much of a cult following as Crono or Frog (Gato ftw!), at any rate.

I understand what you're saying. The inclusion of Snake, in a nutshell, completely compromises any assumptions based on these other third-party characters having a real connection to Nintendo. But, my only other question is this:

Was Snake's inclusion into the game an exception because of Kojima's request to have him included years ago?

I'm going to say yes (but only through speculation). Regardless of the fact that Snake has no place in the Nintendo universe, I don't think that Sakurai is going to use that as a stepping stone to completely dissolve the original purpose of the game. Some may argue that Sonic will only instigate the situation even more, but due to an upcoming game, it seems like he's managed to finally find his niche in the world Nintendo operates.

I just can't see Sakurai abusing Snake's excuse in order to squeeze in other characters that shouldn't even be there.

EDIT:

Yoster, your post a couple above this one was beautiful . . . *sniffle* . . . I love you, man . . . *cries and runs off*

Chief Mendez · Jun 22, 2007

Copperpot said:
Was Snake's inclusion into the game an exception because of Kojima's request to have him included years ago?

I'm going to say yes (but only through speculation). Regardless of the fact that Snake has no place in the Nintendo universe, I don't think that Sakurai is going to use that as a stepping stone to completely dissolve the original purpose of the game. Some may argue that Sonic will only instigate the situation even more, but due to an upcoming game, it seems like he's managed to finally find his niche in the world Nintendo operates.

True enough, but the only precedent we have to work eith as far as 3rd party characters go now is Snake's.

And because there'd only be "2-3" 3rd party characters, even if the two other ones are Dante and Cloud it wouldn't completely destroy the original purpose of Smash. They'd be odd men out, sure, but the majoirty rules.

YosterDragon · Jun 22, 2007

Copperpot said:
I understand what you're saying. The inclusion of Snake, in a nutshell, completely compromises any assumptions based on these other third-party characters having a real connection to Nintendo. But, my only other question is this:

Was Snake's inclusion into the game an exception because of Kojima's request to have him included years ago?

I'm going to say yes (but only through speculation). Regardless of the fact that Snake has no place in the Nintendo universe, I don't think that Sakurai is going to use that as a stepping stone to completely dissolve the original purpose of the game. Some may argue that Sonic will only instigate the situation even more, but due to an upcoming game, it seems like he's managed to finally find his niche in the world Nintendo operates.

I just can't see Sakurai abusing Snake's excuse in order to squeeze in other characters that shouldn't even be there.

EDIT:

Yoster, your post a couple above this one was beautiful . . . *sniffle* . . . I love you, man . . . *cries and runs off*

Kojima's pleading aside, maybe all the Big N is looking for in its third party choices is recognizability. I mean, if you're a modern day gamer odds are you'll know who Snake is. Nintendo can afford to bring out its own obscure characters, 'cuz it's their game and their rules, but for third party choices? Maybe they're not shooting to fit the feel of the game, but make sure their third party reps are well known.

Oh, and thank you Copperpot. Most of the time when people run away from me crying I can never figure out why :chuckle:

Chief Mendez said:
True enough, but the only precedent we have to work eith as far as 3rd party characters go now is Snake's.

And because there'd only be "2-3" 3rd party characters, even if the two other ones are Dante and Cloud it wouldn't completely destroy the original purpose of Smash. They'd be odd men out, sure, but the majoirty rules.

Yeah, as much as I'd like to base the third party choices on "fitness for Brawl," I guess I'd call it, Snake really bucks the trend. And as you pointed out he's the only case we have to work with so far. Not that I'm opposed to his inclusion, it just means that all bets are off methinks.

Just watch--Snake, Dante and Cloud will be in and be high tier...and no one will use any Nintendo characters in their own game :dizzy:

Smady · Jun 22, 2007

Doesn't anyone else see Cecil getting in because of the numerous FFIV re-makes as well as the original appearing on the SNES? If any Final Fantasy, the biggest Japanese RPG franchise, character is in, it'll be him.

Copperpot · Jun 22, 2007

YosterDragon said:
Kojima's pleading aside, maybe all the Big N is looking for in its third party choices is recognizability. I mean, if you're a modern day gamer odds are you'll know who Snake is. Nintendo can afford to bring out its own obscure characters, 'cuz it's their game and their rules, but for third party choices? Maybe they're not shooting to fit the feel of the game, but make sure their third party reps are well known.

Point taken. It could go either way, but I'm not going to assume that Sakurai had any other intentions aside from 'doing a favor for a friend.'

YosterDragon said:
Oh, and thank you Copperpot. Most of the time when people run away from me crying I can never figure out why

I run, because I like to. I cry, because I can't help it.

YosterDragon said:
Yeah, as much as I'd like to base the third party choices on "fitness for Brawl," I guess I'd call it, Snake really bucks the trend. And as you pointed out he's the only case we have to work with so far. Not that I'm opposed to his inclusion, it just means that all bets are off methinks.

It's hard to "buck the trend" of SSB when you have such a crazy standard for characters and stages. If Snake was a character created by Nintendo, nobody would be saying anything. I think people don't realize that their subconcious is prodding their brain, all the while shouting "Hey! Hey you! He's not Nintendo! He's not Nintendoooooooooo!" instead of actually looking at him and saying "Hell, if Game & Watch made it, why not?"

YosterDragon said:
Just watch--Snake, Dante and Cloud will be in and be high tier...and no one will use any Nintendo characters in their own game

If that happened, my emotions would be going in so many directions . . . that I could just pop. I'd be pissed that they were added (Cloud and Dante have no business in Smash) but, at the same time, over-flowing with glee because I could smash with Dante (from Devil May Cry 1, Ifrit Gauntlets, no exceptions).

Smady · Jun 22, 2007

Chief Mendez · Jun 22, 2007

^^^
I'd point out that Dragon Quest is alot more popular than FF in Japan.

The problem with Cecil (or any one specific FF character), is that none of them besides maybe Cloud, has any more or less importance than another. The best FF rep would be a generic class or creature, like a Black Mage or a Chocobo.

YosterDragon · Jun 22, 2007

Chief Mendez said:
^^^
I'd point out that Dragon Quest is alot more popular than FF in Japan.

The problem with Cecil (or any one specific FF character), is that none of them besides maybe Cloud, has any more or less importance than another. The best FF rep would be a generic class or creature, like a Black Mage or a Chocobo.

I'd suggest that a Tonberry be that generic representative, but a character that can deal 999% damage in one blow might be considered overpowered

Deathcarter · Jun 22, 2007

Can anyone confirm whether what I am about to say is true or not, but can Square even use Geno at their own will? I read a post on here that S-E cannot even use Geno for some reason or another.

I speculating when I say this, but if what I say is true, then Nintendo could borrow Geno cheap. Did it even cost them a lot of money, if any, to use Geno in a cameo apperance on Superstar Saga? The main problem with my theory is that if Nintendo does borrow Geno at a very cheap price, S-E won't get much out of the deal as opposed to Cloud being in the game as it may tempt people to buy Cloud's games. Geno on the other hand, doesn't have that marketability.

If Geno can be borrowed by Nintendo at a very cheap price, it may leave room in the Brawl budget to use another Square character especially since Sakurai said he would count Geno as a first party character even though he is technically 3rd party. If I'm correct in predicting this, we may have Geno and another S-E character in Brawl.

It is just wishful thinking, but I beleive this could happen.

Also, f*** that pansy ***** Sora! Crono and Geno FTW

YosterDragon · Jun 22, 2007

Deathcarter said:
Can anyone confirm whether what I am about to say is true or not, but can Square even use Geno at their own will? I read a post on here that S-E cannot even use Geno for some reason or another.

I speculating when I say this, but if what I say is true, then Nintendo could borrow Geno cheap. Did it even cost them a lot of money, if any, to use Geno in a cameo apperance on Superstar Saga? The main problem with my theory is that if Nintendo does borrow Geno at a very cheap price, S-E won't get much out of the deal as opposed to Cloud being in the game as it may tempt people to buy Cloud's games. Geno on the other hand, doesn't have that marketability.

If Geno can be borrowed by Nintendo at a very cheap price, it may leave room in the Brawl budget to use another Square character especially since Sakurai said he would count Geno as a first party character even though he is technically 3rd party. If I'm correct in predicting this, we may have Geno and another S-E character in Brawl.

It is just wishful thinking, but I beleive this could happen.

Also, f*** that pansy ***** Sora! Crono and Geno FTW

From what I understand, S-E owns the copyright to Geno. Period. He's their character as much as Cloud is, and they can use him as they wish. It's Nintendo that has to ask permission and/or shell out $$$ to S-E for his use.

And despite the vulgarity, I would certainly choose Crono or Geno over Sora for Brawl anyday.

Copperpot · Jun 22, 2007

Deathcarter said:
Can anyone confirm whether what I am about to say is true or not, but can Square even use Geno at their own will? I read a post on here that S-E cannot even use Geno for some reason or another.

It's not something that I've ever heard, so I can neither acknowledge nor discredit this information.

Deathcarter said:
I speculating when I say this, but if what I say is true, then Nintendo could borrow Geno cheap. Did it even cost them a lot of money, if any, to use Geno in a cameo apperance on Superstar Saga? The main problem with my theory is that if Nintendo does borrow Geno at a very cheap price, S-E won't get much out of the deal as opposed to Cloud being in the game as it may tempt people to buy Cloud's games. Geno on the other hand, doesn't have that marketability.

Super Mario RPG is releasing on the virtual console later this year, so in short, yes, he does have that marketability.

Deathcarter said:
If Geno can be borrowed by Nintendo at a very cheap price, it may leave room in the Brawl budget to use another Square character especially since Sakurai said he would count Geno as a first party character even though he is technically 3rd party. If I'm correct in predicting this, we may have Geno and another S-E character in Brawl.

Sakurai will still regard Geno as a third-party slot, but if he comes with a slim price tag (or none at all), I suppose it could be possible that he might shoot for a second rep.

Deathcarter said:
It is just wishful thinking, but I beleive this could happen.

Hey, anything can happen.

Deathcarter said:
Also, f*** that pansy ***** Sora! Crono and Geno FTW

Quoted for truth, my friend.

Black/Light · Jun 22, 2007

Sora is owned by Disney. . . .not S-E.

(And I would take Sora (MAIN character) over Geno anyday. . . I would take the FF:CC Wii guy over Geno and I don't even know his name yet.)

YosterDragon · Jun 22, 2007

Black/Light said:
Sora is owned by Disney. . . .not S-E.

(And I would take Sora (MAIN character) over Geno anyday. . . I would take the FF:CC Wii guy over Geno and I don't even know his name yet.)

lol, to each his own :laugh:

And I guess you're right, all the indicators I've seen point to Disney owning Sora, though I've yet to see concrete proof.

Smady · Jun 22, 2007

Chief Mendez said:
^^^
I'd point out that Dragon Quest is alot more popular than FF in Japan.

The problem with Cecil (or any one specific FF character), is that none of them besides maybe Cloud, has any more or less importance than another. The best FF rep would be a generic class or creature, like a Black Mage or a Chocobo.

Regardless of whether DQ or FF is more popular (they're both mega hits) DQ is more of an Enix thing, even if the two companies joined. I'm sure they're separated by design teams when it comes to their two biggest series.

Um... What? FF4 is probably the most popular Final Fantasy in Japan besides Six or maybe Seven, and it's been remade numerous times always for Nintendo consoles and handhelds. Internationally it has reaped more than most other Final Fantasies. Also remember that a new remake for the DS is planned for the future, screenshots came out in May, so Cecil appearing as he does in that game would greatly boost sales and he'd be purchased at a low cost because of this.

Black Mage... He has no personality and bland moves like Fire and Ice. He's boring. A chocobo would suck. There are no moves for that bird. We need an actual character. Otherwise you may as well throw a Mii in there made to look like a Black Mage or whatever, or a character with a job changing, freakazoid moveset.

Don't bring Cloud into this, Mendez, just don't.

Chief Mendez · Jun 23, 2007

Black/Light said:
I would take the FF:CC Wii guy over Geno and I don't even know his name yet.

THat's because he doesn't have a name yet (at least not that we know of).

Smash Daddy said:
Don't bring Cloud into this, Mendez, just don't.

Hey, I calls 'em like I sees 'em. Cloud's easily, easily the most well-known FF hero.

Smash Daddy said:
Black Mage... He has no personality and bland moves like Fire and Ice. He's boring. A chocobo would suck. There are no moves for that bird. We need an actual character. Otherwise you may as well throw a Mii in there made to look like a Black Mage or whatever, or a character with a job changing, freakazoid moveset.

He's got more personality than Squall (oh snap!).

I'd rather not see either of those two: they were just examples. My point is that there are way too many choices from the FF series to pick out just one that is clearly more iconic than the rest. I myself think Terra or Celes should get the slot, but you think Cecil deserves it more. Every FF has it's fans, but nothing besides "generic" elements (like Black Mages and Chocobos) link them together as a franchise.

As for 4's popularity, I don't doubt it, but 7 has sold, far and beyond, way more copies. As has 6, 8 and 10. You raise a good point about the DS remake though...that's one point for Cecil...

Copperpot said:
Super Mario RPG is releasing on the virtual console later this year...

How do you know? I know Paper Mario is...but where did you hear this from?

YosterDragon said:
I'd suggest that a Tonberry be that generic representative, but a character that can deal 999% damage in one blow might be considered overpowered.

Probably. While we're throwing out random names, how about Gilgamesh? I'm pretty sure ChronoBound has him up on the first post, but I bring him up because, well...I just fought him in XII, and I am reminded of just how cool of a character he is.

Black/Light · Jun 23, 2007

"THat's because he doesn't have a name yet (at least not that we know of)."

I knew that. All we know about him is that he is a super hero with wind powers. . . and I think he has a fire sword.

Devastlian · Jun 23, 2007

Chief Mendez said:
How do you know? I know Paper Mario is...but where did you hear this from?

Well...It, along with Kirby Super Star, Kirby's Dreamland 3, Super Metroid, and maybe a couple others were rated on the ESRB website around the time the Wii came out but their ratings were taken down a couple months ago. It's still assumed they're coming (especially since they're pretty popular), it's just hard to tell when since the ratings have usually been going up a few days before they are put up for download.

Chief Mendez · Jun 23, 2007

^^^
Not necessarily. Ninja Gaiden 2 was rated like, months ago, and still has yet to come out yet. I'm sure the rating for SMRPG was a fluke (that it was publically shown, that is), and Ninty was just getting stuff rated early so they can pop those games out with no hassle.

Black/Light: I see. He also has a little tattoo below his left eye, and it looks like he's an expert at gravity magic.

Devastlian · Jun 23, 2007

Chief Mendez said:
^^^
Not necessarily. Ninja Gaiden 2 was rated like, months ago, and still has yet to come out yet. I'm sure the rating for SMRPG was a fluke (that it was publically shown, that is), and Ninty was just getting stuff rated early so they can pop those games out with no hassle.

Hence the usually LOLOLOLOLOL. But ya, that's what I was thinking.

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