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Cloning

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ahf_chick17

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Do we have the right to clone human cells? Have we breached that fine line between morality and science? As researchers outline their plans to move forward with human cloning, are we equipped to handle the ensuing ethical dilemma? If this allows infertile couples to have children or cure incurable diseases, is it worth it? In my opinion, I think we should go for it! Babies concieved through cloning will be no different than those via intercourse. They won't be exact duplicates(mentally, emotionally, and physically) of those whose genetic material was used to clone them; they will be individuals deserving unconditional love and respect that any other baby deserves. They will grow up to be men and women just as every other man and woman has.
 

ahf_chick17

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You are the one and only of yourself and no one can replace that and should not be allowed to try. Cloning was not in the past and should not be allowed in the future! Yes we have come very far in age, but a human is a human no one is alike kinda like a snowflake! I think it is wrong to try and replace lost ones you can not bring them back and most people think cloning will. It won't, the clone will not be who you lost and never will be... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />
 

ahf_chick17

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I agree Ahfchick. Who are we as humans to bring people into the world that way? That's for the man upstairs to decide, not us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
 

ahf_chick17

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If you look at it that way then, who are we to promote the use of fertility drugs and clinics, surrogate parents, in vitro fertilization, etc.? It is no different than cloning a human. In this mindset, if a pregnancy were meant to happen by "the man upstairs", we would not need to find methods to "induce" pregnancy or parenthood. <img border="0" alt="[Freak]" title="" src="graemlins/freak.gif" />
 

ahf_chick17

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No, I think it is completly unethical. Those who want to produce a clone of themselves are disregarding the rights of the "child". How would the clones feel later in life knowing that their parent(s) "manufactured" them out of some selfish motive. How do we know they would not grow up with a deep sense of loss and alienation which might turn them against society? I think for now, we shouldn't go ahead with this...there are too many questions and a moratorium on human cloning.
 

jameslocke

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ahf_chick17:
<strong>You are the one and only of yourself and no one can replace that and should not be allowed to try. Cloning was not in the past and should not be allowed in the future! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Who are we as humans to bring people into the world that way? That's for the man upstairs to decide, not us</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">oh great, another religious topic... anyway, some people are unique in physical characteristics. look at twins, they are unique physically, but mentally they are each their own person. its the same with clones. just because two people are the same physically doesnt mean they "replace" each other. that arguement falls. and as for the "who are we as humans" one, we are exactly that! humans have free will and should be allowed to create other human beings, as long as they are made to be people, not just bags of removable organs. let stem cell research handle that. our existence is always changing, like it or not, and society will progress. we cannot let belief of an all powerful diety stand in the way of societal advancement.

<small>[ April 24, 2002, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: jameslocke ]</small>
 

Gamer4Fire

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Let me reply with a humorous essay I wrote for my english class.

[ESSAY]
I Think I’m A Clone Now

What is cloning? Or, Where does this part go?

There are two types of cloning. Therapeutic Cloning and Human Cloning.
Therapeutic Cloning is taking cells from somebody and using it to recreate a part of him. An arm, leg, kidney, liver, whatever! The hope is that we will be able to do this to replace old worn out, or damaged pieces of ourselves. Say you lose your arm in a traffic accident and it gets horribly mauled, we could take a sample of you tissue (skin) and grow you a new arm to attach to your new stump.
Human cloning is creating a twin or mini-me of someone. This individual would look exactly like the person he was cloned from. Many people think that this is wrong and immoral. I mean, oh my, that child looks exactly like you did at when you were that old.

How Cloning with Genetic Engineering will save us. Or, Look Ma, new hands!

As was previously stated, or said before, (Department of Redundancy Department) we hope we can use Therapeutic Cloning to replace old worn out bits and pieces. Something else we hope we can do is improve on the parts we already have. For example, you have bad eyesight. You can’t see the wall in front of you. What if we could clone you a new set of eyes, but these ones can actually see things, like redwoods. Wouldn’t that be a whole lot better?
Now lets expand this, say that your eyes can see within the normal range of the electromagnetic spectrum (think color chart). It would be real nice if we could tweak your new cloned eyes so that they pick up the infrared spectrum, too. You wouldn’t ever stub your toe on something you couldn’t see in the dark. You’d know exactly what you stubbed your toe on.
The Human Cloning part comes up for people who can’t have children. Since we can only replace existing parts and can’t improve upon them yet, we can’t replace ovaries and wombs. So we use techniques such as those using surrogate mothers (“You’re my best friend, mind having my kid for me?â€). And another tool we might be able to use is human cloning. Just try to think of it as another way to create a happy family.
And when we do gain the ability to improve on ourselves on the genetic level, we could start improving our kids before they were even conceived. “Little Johnny would have underdeveloped muscles!?! Well, we can fix that, now he can play football with all the other kids.†We can also take this one step further and create super kids. How would you like your son or daughter to be able to bench five hundred pounds? Well, if my daughter benched that much, it would probably scare the stuffing out of me. Anyways, wouldn’t that be great? Or make your daughter a concert violinist at birth. Can the Johnson’s kid play violin at three?
The last use for a cloned human could be for the psychological study: “How much does our environment affect our personalities?†We’ve had astounding breakthroughs with twins, but what if we could test fifty kids instead of two, then the real numbers would be coming in.

How cloning will not destroy humanity. Or, Cloned kids have it too easy these days.

In the past there was forbidden knowledge. Did you know that it was considered immoral and against god to cut into human flesh back in the day (some time BC). Oh my, lets go and stone our local surgeon (not the bong, moron!). In the beginning of the twentieth century, invitro fertilization (the doctor does it for you) was paramount to cloning, today. And now look at it, thousands of families use it to get a healthy kid and raise a good family.
Many people against cloning say that it goes against God. Well, if God doesn’t want happy families, then I say we go against him.
Other people are afraid of therapeutic cloning.
“Oh my God! Headless humans being grown as spare parts!â€(Krauthammer, NOTE: Not a direct quote)
Uh, no. You have any idea how much it costs to keep a human on life support? If you don’t, just ask Grandma why she took Grandpa off life support. The obvious way to do this is the same as Just On Time Delivery (JOTD the Japanese way). Pretty much JOTD is creating the part when you need, and putting it in right then. No need to spend millions of dollars keeping a headless freak alive in a jar in your basement when for only a couple thousand, you could create just the part you need and have it installed right away (operators are standing by). Yes, you could be the first in your intensive care wing to get his replacement heart (please allow 6-8 weeks for delivery).
The idea behind JOTD is that we aren’t going to create freak farms so that we can happily harvest replacement parts that might not work. We clone you when you need the part so it’s a part of you. No hassle with rejection.
The last big fear of the improve my kid and make him Superman thing is that now we have all these people who can pick up cars like daisies and look through the walls into the girls showers. Well, if everyone can do it, doesn’t that make that the norm? And if it’s the norm, doesn’t that make everyone doing it normal?

Conclusion Or, Skip here and just say you read it.

If you couldn’t tell by this document (and I lay it on pretty thick), cloning is just the next step for medical science to take. People were scared out of their wits when the idea of autopsies to see how people died came up. And now everyone has their panties in a twist over a non-event. Everyone’s afraid we’ll create something terrible when we can barely get it to work in the first place(Gorner & Kotulak). Study cloning, don’t ban it (Kevles). The world can use smarter kids and better parents. Why don’t we just use all of the resources we have and try to do that? That’s all cloning is, anyways, another tool to better society.
[/ESSAY]

Let me end with the fact that I do not believe in your god, so your point is moot. Humans have the power to change their enviornment, I say we might as well use our powers and bring some good into the world with it. If you have a problem with that, dig a deep hole, sit in it with your fingers in your ears and hum really loudly.
 

ahf_chick17

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Maybe it would be okay to clone organs to help in different emergencies or surgeries. But making a complete person or child would be outrageous. First of all man is not God but Gods gift in his own image. Common sense tells me that a human clone would be the destruction of mankind. A clone will not have a soul so would a clone care about human life? A clone would be a moderen day Frankenstein who would control it or them?
Would we use them to fight wars or would they be at war against the human race? This isn't Dexters Laboratory, this is the world of human kind. If we get out of control thinking that we are Gods or something with no respect for mankind then we will all be history and who will read about our lives/ What kind of future are we teaching our chlidren that there is no God. I know if this gets out of control you can mock my words "man greatest invention will be the death of him" The End.
 

ahf_chick17

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Not everyone believes in god(s) and of those who do not all believe in YOUR god. You are also assuming that everyone believes in such things as souls. If there are such things as souls I certainly don't believe that they are bestowed upon us by some being that is supposed to be greater than we have the potential to become.
 

jameslocke

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by leslie_butterfly19:
<strong> Common sense tells me that a human clone would be the destruction of mankind. A clone will not have a soul so would a clone care about human life? A clone would be a moderen day Frankenstein who would control it or them?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">a human being is unique because of their mind. not a "soul" that must be given to you by your parents or God. the mind creates the idea of a soul because people are afraid to die and not go on existing. "soul" is a desperate attempt to keep yourself permanent, when all things are impermanent. "soul" is not a moral and ethical background that makes you a good person. look at all the bad people with "souls" who cannot be controlled. dont assume clones would be monsters. and even if there is a God, wouldn't he give one of these people a "soul"? or would the all-loving God turn His/Her/Its back on these people?
 

Gamer4Fire

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What would stop a clone? What stops me from going to where ever you are and ****** you? Nothing than the fact that I was raised to know better. You think that a clone doesn't have a soul, that it is sub-human. You are the monster.

Frankenstein's monster was only the product of his environment. If you teach a clone to have good manners, eat his peas, be nice to people. Then the clone will probably be a good individual. However, you teach the clone that he is a sub-human freak, who god hates, and will go into nothingness when s/he dies, not even the possibility of **** . Then I would personally help him/her kill you for your arrogance.

I hate you for who you are because you are too shallow to be of any worth to society. I respect the individual, regardless of how they were brought into the world, or how they were raised in the world. Your stupidity, callousness, and cold heart have made me lose respect for you, and hate you as a human being.
 

ahf_chick17

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> anyway, not all people are unique in physical characteristics. look at twins, they are not unique physically, but mentally they are each their own person. its the same with clones. just because two people are the same physically doesnt mean they "replace" each other. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A clone isn't an exact copy of the "twin". Are identical twins exactly a like? No, they are individuals, are they not? What requires more speculation: the belief that all clones will be soulless monsters because no one will bestow a soul on such an "abomination", or the idea that a clone could be an individual? One line of thought requires only listening to another, the other requires research into genetics and human behavior. I don't claim to know it all, I don't, but since identical twins aren't exact copies of each other it stands to reason that clones could possibley be different from their "twin". The idea that a clone will be a soulless monster who wants only to wage war against all of "normally concieved" humanity is the stuff of science fiction movies; fine entertainment but not reality, to spread such a fear inducing idea would cause children (concieved via cloning) to be tormented and abused. <img border="0" alt="[Cry]" title="" src="graemlins/cry.gif" /> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
 

jameslocke

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whoops, that post should read </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> some people are unique in physical characteristics. look at twins, they are unique physically, but mentally they are each their own person. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">my mistake. i've gone ahead and edited my post. sorry for the confusion.
 

ahf_chick17

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the word "clone" does not mean "to grow a whole person". it simply means creating exact copies of cells. that's it!!! growing whole people is very low on the list of things cloning can be used to do. there are many medicinal applications. instead of spending time & money & research on figuring out how to build better artificial replacement parts, use resources to develope natural ones. grow replacement hip joints/cartilage instead of using metal and/or plastic. grow sheets of skin for burn victims. use pre-chemo marrow sample to produce replacemnt marrow for cancer patients. and all of these would be exact matches because they'ld be grow from the person's own cells. no rejection problems! the list goes on and on. and none of them involve growing entire human beings.
 

Gamer4Fire

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Ummm... Who are you guys argueing against? Everyone who's posted the last five times have all agreed!

AGAIN, ANOTHER SHAMELESS PLUG: How well do you know the mods of this room, specifically me? Take the test: "<a href="http://gamer4fire.friendtest.com/" target="_blank">How well do you know the Gamer4Fire?</a>" Use your SWF name, get 100%, and win an incredible prize!

Subject to limitation, all rights reserved, not FDIC insured, deal with it.

<small>[ April 24, 2002, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: Gamer4Fire ]</small>
 

PorCorpWis

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Ignorance and religion go hand in hand. This topic is a fine example. But anyway, a lot of people in this topic have been breaking one the debate commandments, "don't argue blindly." Get out of the thread if you don't know what you're talking about (OMG clones will eat my babies, etc).

Edit: G4F, I think we are all yelling at leslie (sp?).

<small>[ April 24, 2002, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: PorCorpWis ]</small>
 

XDaDePsak

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Pandas are irrelevant to this discussion, and I beg you to stop with that Infra-red anus concept... no one wants to see their hot steamy pooh in heat-vision.
 

androza

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To those who dont believe we can play god, why not? Why shouldnt we? If he gave us the means, then is it not god given? Is it not our divine right to use whatever means possible to stay alive? Unless youre saying that god did not mean for that, but then youre saying God isnt perfect...

I believe men can become gods. Maybe not now, maybe not tomorrow, but eventually we will
 

yuriismaster

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Cloning does NOT replace a person. Unlike the horrid movie, Multiplicity, cloned humans, sheeps, cats, etc. do not share the experiences that a human has already experienced. For those who don't know, here's how cloning works. The scientists take an ovum, be it human or whatever, and extract all of the DNA from the cell and trash it. Then they take DNA from the 'clonee' and insert it into the ovum. Then they stimulate it, causing it to multiply and eventually create a new organism with the same genetical structure of the clonee.

This does not create an exact replica, psychologically speaking, of the clonee. It may allow some rich dude to raise a child version of himself, and that's it. Cloning is not bad, and that's my opinion.
 

Novowels

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Panda... PANDA

<img border="0" alt="[Freak]" title="" src="graemlins/freak.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Freak]" title="" src="graemlins/freak.gif" />

PANDA CLONE MONSTERS ARE EATING MY BABY.

^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H

Er, anyways.

I think Cloning should definately be allowed. Much as Gamer said, it's the same thing as autopsies were in the old days (sadly, that was actually in AD, as late as the 13th century I think but don't quote me on that). I don't see anything at all wrong with growing a headless human body and keeping it alive in my basement. I'd do it. I'd even go down and poke it once in a while, to make sure it works ok.

Every time there is a medical breakthru, someone (usually a religious leader) stands up and opposes it. Surgery, painkillers, autopsy, c-sections, abortion, transplants.... The list just goes on and on. 200 years from now, people will look back and laugh at all this stupidity over "cloning."

Then they'll go in the basement and make sure their body farm is growing ok! Oop, that one is moving. ARGH IT'S ALIVE, IT'S ALIVEEEE.

.........
 

Muffinman389

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Erm, I might be wrong, but I didn't think we had the wits and technology yet to clone the human brain, thus prohibiting us from cloning humans in general. But uh, I could be wrong...(always be safe here...you're always at risk of getting flamed for inaccurate facts... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )

EDIT: LOL. Hilarius sig, X.

<small>[ April 25, 2002, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Muffinman389 ]</small>
 

ahf_chick17

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't see anything at all wrong with growing a headless human body and keeping it alive in my basement. I'd do it. I'd even go down and poke it once in a while, to make sure it works ok. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Errrr...okay? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> I'm a little confused here. All I was saying was that human cloning...such as new arms...skin, etc. is fine. Who said anything about headless bodies. GRR!
 

Novowels

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^ I know you didn't say that. I was just hitting the extreme: Obviously if I think that THAT is ok, I don't see much wrong with Stem Cell research, right?

That's actually a very stupid example... That's more along the lines of human cloning (which, although I don't care about, I don't see the point of). Stem Cell research/cloning is a completely different thing, and should definately be allowed.
 

Keaten

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When people consider the topic of cloning, they aren't researching it with the intent of creating human replicas to walk on the earth and to live among us. They're doing it to research cures for life threatening diseases. They're doing it to reproduce body parts so those that need them can get exactly what they need from something that, physically and anatomically, is exactly like them. If cloning means saving millions of people from these debilitating diseases, then I'm all for it. We need to concentrate on saving ourselves, thats the most important thing.

You might say "well, its natural selection and god decides when someone is supposed to die, so let it happen, its supposed to." Yeah, well, tell that to the person thats dying at the age of 13 from systic fibrosis or muscular distrophy. Ask them if, given the chance, they would allow their genes to be replicated so that scientists could work at finding a cure for the deadly disease that they have. It goes back to the "you shouldnt judge until you've walked a mile in their shoes" addage.

Don't make decisions on things that barely even affect you. Most of you are speaking the way you do because your religion, parents and school teachers enforce their opinions. Although some of them may be educated and well versed on the topics, keep in mind that most of them haven't had the opportunity to get back a life that they never had. Its all in perspective and what people have done and gone through in their lives. Just keep in mind those who suffer and wouldn't have to anymore if cloning is allowed.

EDIT: Just as a side note, Stem Cell Research and Cloning are two completely different things. I know I sound like I meshed the two together, but I'm speaking mainly of Stem Cell Research. Cloning in the "little green men running around" sense is wrong, Cloning in the "stem cell research help people survive" sense is completely ok.

<small>[ April 25, 2002, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: Keaten ]</small>
 

PorCorpWis

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If a car is moving at you, what do you do? Move out of the way, or stand there and say "I was supposed to die because it's God's will, so I'll just stand here?" I don't think so. You move out of the way.

What do you do if a disease is devouring your body? Do you do research and create a cure, or do you sit there and die, saying that it's god's will?

How is one different from the other?
 

dejavu3k

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i think cloning should be allowed...i don't understand why ppl think it is unethical...cloning is just making another human, and putting it in an ovum of a female, so it is born like other babies.(i may be wrong...if so, pm me on the right way of cloning)
anyway, it is almost synonymous with artificial insemination...
 

PimpLuigi

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lol, Novo that was great- anyway i think everyone agrees w/ cloning, and stem whatever for the greater good so let's talk about a genetically engineered working class. y'know like an actual working class of sub-human beefy morons. y'know like in timeMachine and 15thousand other books with this same concept? ....then again most of those books with these concepts have something go horribly awry and the sub-human people overthrowing the upper class. ah well, maybe we could train monkeys?

Edit: oh wait, we all saw how that worked out in planet of the apes, dammit! back to the drawing board-

<small>[ April 26, 2002, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: PimpLuigi ]</small>
 

Novowels

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^ Cloned Monkeys.

That is the answer.... Wait, wait. Cloned, genetically enhanced, cybernetically enhanced SUPERMONKEYS. They'll have 3 eyes, and nightvision, and rocket packs and can throw poo at upwards of 322 MPH.

I think we'd have screwed up Nature enough by that point that the Earth would just open up, and swallow us all. The Christians would have a field day with that one.

"It's a sign, a sign that the Lord is-- *crunch*"

AND THEN PANDAS WOULD INHERIT THE EARTH.

I apologize for my outbursts this week, my phone has started waking me up at 10 every morning (I work nights and don't get to sleep until 6am, so that's about 4 hrs of sleep every night this week). As a result, I have begun to become slightly crazed and have started hallucinating. So I just come here and vent. Still, I'm fairly amusing when I'm hopped up on chocolate and coffee and haven't had a decent nights sleep in 5 days.

Right?
 

Gods Gift To Women

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My 5 cents. We should be able to clone only organs to save people lives, we should never clone people because just picture it, one day u find out you are a copy. simple as that, you could not live with you family or have the same rights. and we should never clone people for organ harvesting :)
 

YellowPikmin

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I agree with using therapeutic cloning to replace organs and body parts. I disagree with tinkereing with life like making human clones or making a horse give birth to a zebra(the horse and zebra thing has actually been done). However, I've read that the process of cloning an organ, and making an exact copy of an organism are virtually the same. So if research were to continue into therapeutic cloning, it would make it easier for those crazy cults like the Raeliens to clone babys. For those of you who don't know, the Raeliens are the people who claimed to have made a human clone(Baby Eve). Its most likely a hoax, since they refused to have a DNA test on Eve to see if it really was a clone. Oops, a bit off-topic there. Anyway, that's what I think about cloning.

By the way, to the guy on the first page mentioning therapeutic and reproductive cloning and what they were, there are actually 3 types of cloning. The 3rd is embryonic cloning(I think that's the correct spelling), which is fiddling with or cloning an embryo(they used that form of cloning to make the horse give birth to the zebra, but I don't understand exactly how they did it).
 

EvilAttackLlama

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Umm... YP, you can't clone individual organs. You might be able to make them with stem cells, but you can not clone them. Why? Because to grow a clone the clone must be able to take in nurishment (food, water, oxygen). Show me how you get a kidney to eat and then I'll concede your point.

It has been proposed, however, that you could clone a complete human being, minus the brain. In other words, you use mechanical devices to force them to eat and drink and breath. Then you take their organs, killing them in the process. If you disagree with abortion, you'll probably have a problem with this. Even if you are pro-choice you might have a problem with this (although this and abortion are really similar). Well, don't worry, we're not even close at this point.

Anyway, just thought I'd bring it up.

Oh, and how exactly is making human clones tinkering with life? What about if a mother gets pregnant with identical twins, is that tinkering with life? The end result is the same. What does it matter in the means are natural or artificial? Hey, find the square root of 284. But don't use a calculator; that would be tinkering. ;) That's just a different example of natural vs. artificial meathods. So what now, are calculators wrong?
 

YellowPikmin

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Well, I'm not sure exactly how they do it, but apparently, there is a way that they can somehow create a seperate organ. I think that they take a piece of it and put it in and it grows, wait, no, that doesn't make any sense. I really don't how, but they can, somehow.
 

EvilAttackLlama

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The relevant definitions of cloning, found at dictionary.com, are as follows:

A cell, group of cells, or organism that are descended from and genetically identical to a single common ancestor, such as a bacterial colony whose members arose from a single original cell.

or

A DNA sequence, such as a gene, that is transferred from one organism to another and replicated by genetic engineering techniques.

The first one mentions that the cells are descended from one another, which is not true of artificial cloning. The second specifies an organsim, and an organ is not an organism.

Neither of these definitions fit what you described, cloning an organ. Therefore, the phrase "cloning an organ" contradicts itself.

Just thought I'd try to clear that up.
 

Cyphus

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ill keep this short..
cloning has many positive things about...organs AND humans
i can't think of a bad reason, why NOT too.

religious nuts who talk about it having no.."SOUL"..LOL...or be evil.......god!...(can i say that?..if i don't believe in him? LMAO)

anywho...its a human...DEAL WITH IT!...if u have a problem w/ clones for the advancements of technology for the human race...then u prolly have problems with everyday people.



and does anyone, HONESTLY THINK, that we will NOT CLONE?
i think its inevitable...eventually...somewhere..it will be done..and we can't stop it from popping up, EVERYWHERE..get real
its gonna happen...and we might goof up..couple accidents here and there...but eventually it will outdo the wrong, and advance us even further, learning from it.

note: the cloned sheep....it died at the same age the mother was when they took her cells...strange eh?..you would think "cell memory should have nothing to do w/ it"...but coincidence, prolly
either way..they don't know why it died..(or at least thats what i read in a paper)
 

pokemonmaster01

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You guys should see a little film called "Pokémon: The First Movie". If a clone is just as good as its naturally born counterpart, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Equal rights for clones! (Of course, this is if the clone was made to live anyway, and not for research.)

As for stem cells- I have a reason to be for them. My father has Parkinson's disease and it is possible that stem cell research could lead to a cure. I have absolutely NO reason to be against stem cell research, in fact, I am behind it 100%.
 

Lumbro

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A cell, group of cells, or organism that are descended from and genetically identical to a single common ancestor, such as a bacterial colony whose members arose from a single original cell.
In theory I could take the least-differentiated heart cell and implant the genetic code and send the merry little cell on its way. If I then gave it nutrients and a proper environment it would eventually differentiate into all the different heart cells and eventually a new heart. This follows along perfectly with BOTH definitions. It makes sense to talk about cloning organs. And just because we don't have the perfect techniques to do it yet doesn't mean it's nonsensical to discuss it either.

To be contrary to the popular opinion of this thread, I'll list a possible objection to cloning. Cloning devalues human life. Consider a system where people can be replaced. If you lose a child in early life you can have a duplicate made. The instinct to protect, although still very strong, isn't quite as strong as when the child was irreplaceable. Reproduction could be done asexually as well, without recombinant genetic material. Suddenly the need to find a mate to reproduce isn't necessary.

Maybe you're fine with the above, or maybe the possibilities disturb you, but I imagine it's at least a topic for discussion. There are other objections too, I just can't think of any off the top of my head.
 

Rainy Day Toast

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Originally posted by Lumbro
To be contrary to the popular opinion of this thread, I'll list a possible objection to cloning. Cloning devalues human life. Consider a system where people can be replaced. If you lose a child in early life you can have a duplicate made. The instinct to protect, although still very strong, isn't quite as strong as when the child was irreplaceable. Reproduction could be done asexually as well, without recombinant genetic material. Suddenly the need to find a mate to reproduce isn't necessary.

Maybe you're fine with the above, or maybe the possibilities disturb you, but I imagine it's at least a topic for discussion. There are other objections too, I just can't think of any off the top of my head.
It would devalue human life if humans were merely the sums of their genetic parts, but they are instead the sums of their genetic parts, their development, and their experience. And in any case, I don't think I see in the future the loss of respect for any life's individuality, whether genetically identical to another or not. This argument is like saying that parents treat twins as a child with a spare in case something goes wrong.

As for lack of a need for a mate to reproduce, that doesn't bother me, though, as long as sexual reproduction is still a socially viable option (GATTACA and Brave New World come to mind) for those who still attach romanticism to childbirth.

Personally, I think that ultimately, human life is simply going to split into two (or more) distinct genetic paths. I have no idea as to the function of their coexistence, but, hey, whatever.
 

Bumble Bee Tuna

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Sorry Lumbro, doesn't work. A clone isn't a replacement. It wouldn't be the same. It would really not be much different than arguing that having more than one child devalues human life, because hey, if your first child dies you can just replace him with a new one. Genes don't do everything.

Even if it could create a pretty good replica, your premise is ridiculous. I highly doubt that even if a child could be replaced, parents would think they were expendable.

-B
 
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