Stage Counterpick/Ban list UPDATED! *updates ban list later* =)

RapeFalcon said:

That's why Ganon is not such an easy match because the guy I play has insane mindgames. he plays like u Hax with all the wavedashing and wavelanding he's extremely technical. It looks really weird on Ganon though.

He said yoshi's story is Ganon's best stage for him because all he needs to do is like 3 moves to get me off the stage and then he just hits me with the u-air tips and spikes me. Or just get a F-air.

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hmm. imo against ganon you should pressure his shield; approach with a shffl'd nair, jab, shffl a nair, jab, rinse/repeat. he has a very hard time dealing with this; wait for him to sidestep/roll and grab. just don't play stupid and ganon is easy to beat; if you techchase well then a single grab is basically death. -.-;

Since Corneria is on the list, is it any good against anyone?

CPTNfalcon said:

Since Corneria is on the list, is it any good against anyone?

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Fox and falco

Corneria is a camper/spamers paradise
so I strongly recomend not playing this against any character like that

A ganon should not be able to out maneuver or even trick you with his slow *** wavedashes and whatnot. Falcon has a ridiculous pressure game on the slow fool. Just throw it all out, one hit leads to a crazy combo. And if he takes you to Yoshi's story that's good for you too. shffl'd knee's will hit ppl standing on the left and right platform. And once he's off the stage he's done just as easy.... any knee from one of those platforms can lead into a uair to knee or uair to uair on that stage. ****s wack easy!


Just go crazy v ganon the matchup is in your favor almost everywhere.

I started editing the first post to make a list out of everything we discussed. Feel free to correct me if I mest up anywhere or if the stages I put don't sound good.

Looks good so far.

that's an accurate list so far (your new first post.)

What about sheik? isn't there a solid stage where falcon has some advantage on her?
I'm thinking of yoshi's story but i'm not sure

Sorry for not updating for a while, but i'll be updating this daily adding a few characters at a time .

CPTNfalcon said:

What about sheik? isn't there a solid stage where falcon has some advantage on her?
I'm thinking of yoshi's story but i'm not sure

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Yea I like Yoshi's Story, BattleField, and DK64. Though there are no solid stage advantages vs Sheik

looks like a serious thread is going on. a few thoughts of mine:
you shouldnt ban fod vs falco. its as bad for him as it is for you, if not more. and id like to think DL is better than YS, even vs falco.

You should add Samus next!!!
Ps use my Samus stage selection for help with your guide!!!
In the sig!

see this thread is bad bc a lot of it is opinion.

TheManaLord said:

see this thread is bad bc a lot of it is opinion.

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I dont think this is a "bad" thread.
If you put together smart peoples opinions and think through things, most of the time it is correct!

Rage. said:

Falcon is one of the only characters that has no bad stages
Falcon is pretty good at all the stages but his best are probley
Dreamland 64 and Final Destination

a good counter pick for Ice Climbers is poke floats or rainbow cruise
both are good with Falcon because he can manuver so well and Ice climbers cant

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OK i've seen enough of this rage guy's post and jsut have to say stfu to this noob
this is not ur fisrt stupid post that tells ppl ur briliant idea
ive seen several of ur posts and those completed dmg my brain
that's why i have to bring it out today at here.
u r either a super noob player or u completely don't know who c falcon is.

back to the topic,
i main falcon and i always love picking dream land, and poke stadium against falco and fox sometimes sheik. to plateform camp their projectile. also those stages r big enough for falcon to run around and combo.
and i love fihgitng marth on FD

TheManaLord said:

see this thread is bad bc a lot of it is opinion.

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This thread is mostly on opinion, but the thread is really about people posting their opinions to come to a right answer in this case a stage against certain character.
Besides everything on the first post sounds right to mostly everyone.

DarkKyanite said:

OK i've seen enough of this rage guy's post and jsut have to say stfu to this noob
this is not ur fisrt stupid post that tells ppl ur briliant idea
ive seen several of ur posts and those completed dmg my brain
that's why i have to bring it out today at here.
u r either a super noob player or u completely don't know who c falcon is.

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How was Rage. wrong? He was right about ICs, and pokefloats. Nobody should be flaming anyone if u dont know what ur talking about.

Edit: BTW Redragon since u play samus wich stages are bad for u against falcon?

RapeFalcon said:

Sheik ban not sure probably FoD

Advantages: none
Some Advantages IMO: Yoshi's Story, BattleField, DK64
Neutral: Brinstar, FD, Dreamland 64, Pokemon Stadium
Some Disadvantages: Rainbow Cruise
Disadvantage: Every other stage

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Marth ban FoD

Advantages: Dreamland 64, DK64, PokeFloats
Some Advantages: FD, BattleField, Rainbow Cruise
Neutral: Pokemon Stadium
Some Disadvantages: Yoshi's Story, Corneria
Disadvantage: Every other stage
_______________________________________
Peach ban FoD or Dreamland 64

Advantages:DK64, PokeFloats, Rainbow Cruise
Some Advantages: Yoshi's Story, Battlefield, FD
Neutral: Pokemon Stadium, Brinstar, Princess Peach's Castle
Some Disadvantages: Dreamland 64, FoD, Corneria, Mute City
Disadvantage: Every other stage

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sheik
i wouldn't say 'not sure', you definitely should ban FoD lol. also what you might wanna do with this thread is have 2 stages to ban; 1 random-select and 1 counterpick (consider dk64 random select). some tourneys don't let you ban random-select stages so you have to have a counterpick to ban, as well.

also i would change the wording you use such as advantages/disadvantages etc.; you make it sound as if falcon actually has an advantage over the opposing character when you counterpick the said stage. for example, dreamland 64 is a great stage against fox (one of his best), however he still doesn't have the "advantage" over fox.. he probably doesn't have the advantage over fox on ANY stage. so yeah i'd change the wording to something like 'reccomended/not reccomended/neutral.' another suggestion would be to categorize stages into tiers; such as Top/Upper/Middle/Lower/Bottom tiers. in this case, Kirby64 would be a top tier falcon stage in the fox matchup, while green greens would be bottom.

anyway about sheik, i would definitely raise yoshi's story up one rank; it's probably your best anti-sheik stage. dk64 is great too; i've beaten a lot of sheiks on dk64 that i couldn't beat on other stages; those are probably the best stages against sheik. i'd also move FD up to 'some advantages' or 'upper tier' if you feel like calling it that; it's pretty good against her. pokemon stadium should definitely be in some advantages/upper tier; it's gr8. rainbow cruise shouldn't be in some disadvantages/lower tier; just like pokefloats no character moves around like falcon (although i'll admit sheik is good on those 2 stages as well).. i'd say it's a middle tier stage.

marf (yes, marf)
i'd definitely raise FD to top tier, and pokemon stadium should be upper tier (some advantages). yoshi's story is probably a neutral/middle tier stage although it's arguable.. falcon can do a lot on yoshi story as well so i'd probably say neutral; not sure.

peach
dk64 should probably be dropped down to some advantages; it's great but peach is able to abuse the barrel like fonz said so you're gonna have to knee her into the blast line to get your kills. yoshi's story is the best stage against peach and should definitely be in the advantages section with pokefloats and r.cruise; battlefield is arguable - it's either top tier or upper tier... i'd leave it at upper. pokemon stadium is either top tier or upper tier as well, i'd put it in the upper tier. pp's castle is one of the worst stages against peach and should be put in disadvantages.

fd is a terrible stage against peach and should be put in lower tier (it's not exactly bottom tier but still terrible).. a single grab from peach = death. no joke.

also your peach counter-pick list doesn't make sense; you say to ban dreamland/FoD when they aren't in the disadvantage (bottom tier) section. wouldn't you be making the best choice by banning a stage in the disadvantage section? IMO, FoD is a much worst stage against peach than Kirby64; I'd move FoD to the disadvantage/bottom tier section and suggest it be banned. ;x

nice list though, i thought everything was accurate and this is really helpful; a friend of mine is reading your list right now. =P the only thing that needs major work is the peach section, but yeah this should def. be stickied once the entire list is compiled.

EDIT: i suggest the rank names be changed to:
advantages -> top tier
some advanages -> upper tier
neutral -> middle tier
some disadvantages -> lower tier
disadvantages -> bottom tier

Thanks Hax I did switch up the thread and yea, when I looked at the peach section I was confused too.

I don't know what to put vs Samus since I haven't played vs samus on counterpicks, just the random stages in friendlies.

Hax said:

marf (yes, marf)
i'd definitely raise FD to top tier, and pokemon stadium should be upper tier (some advantages). yoshi's story is probably a neutral/middle tier stage although it's arguable.. falcon can do a lot on yoshi story as well so i'd probably say neutral; not sure.

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Nope nope nope
I do not believe Marth vs Falcon on Yoshis story is a neutral stage
I have heard that you are a good Falcon so i am not going to call you a noob, but dude REALLY Yoshis story goes in Marths favor FOR SURE!



Redragon

pc chris doesn't even main captain falcon and he counterpicked yoshi's story against M2K's marth and two stocked him



although yoshi's story is a great marth stage, it is also a great falcon stage. at least it is neutral.

also shieks crappy jump speed make poke floats a bad stage for her too. i dunno why it's not even on the list.

REDRAGON said:

Nope nope nope
I do not believe Marth vs Falcon on Yoshis story is a neutral stage
I have heard that you are a good Falcon so i am not going to call you a noob, but dude REALLY Yoshis story goes in Marths favor FOR SURE!



Redragon

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nah man.. falcon is amazing on yoshi's as well; i actually counterpick it sometimes against marths and win. o_O you just have to abuse the fact that you can dair/knee through platforms and marth can get ****ed up pretty bad at yoshi's. i won't deny it though; yoshi's probably isn't the best counterpick for falcon vs marth but now that i think about it it doesn't really favor either falcon or marth. =x

also rapefalcon yoshi's story is def. a top tier stage vs samus. characters who have great recoveries (and are floaty) such as samus, peach and jiggs hate yoshi's. tiny stages are bad for them, plus you can knee through platforms as a bonus. it's definitely a top-tier stage vs those 3.

dk64 is badass vs samus, ylink and link.

I'm still shocked FD isn't top tier vs marth... But awesome list, keep it up.

Chaotic said:

I'm still shocked FD isn't top tier vs marth... But awesome list, keep it up.

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yeah lol he gets ***** on fd.

Hax said:

nah man.. falcon is amazing on yoshi's as well; i actually counterpick it sometimes against marths and win. o_O you just have to abuse the fact that you can dair/knee through platforms and marth can get ****ed up pretty bad at yoshi's. i won't deny it though; yoshi's probably isn't the best counterpick for falcon vs marth but now that i think about it it doesn't really favor either falcon or marth. =x

also rapefalcon yoshi's story is def. a top tier stage vs samus. characters who have great recoveries (and are floaty) such as samus, peach and jiggs hate yoshi's. tiny stages are bad for them, plus you can knee through platforms as a bonus. it's definitely a top-tier stage vs those 3.

dk64 is badass vs samus, ylink and link.

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No dude. I dont know what Marths you have been fighting o_O
The tippers are so good for Marth and its so easy to edge guard Falcon once he is off.
PLUS the stage has a very small floor of death or whatever its called.
And Falcon being a ff dies easy on the bottom.
Marth has tippers, platform control, and edge guarding and more.
Falcon has nothing!!!


Redragon

agaisnt ICs, i would ban FD not FoD, FoD is good against ICs i think

How was Rage. wrong? He was right about ICs, and pokefloats. Nobody should be flaming anyone if u dont know what ur talking about.

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i am saying he said falcon's one of hte character that's good with all stages. and u should go search rage's posts in the falcon forum
u'll find out how amazing he is and i am not the only who flamed him.

ps.one of the stupidest thing i remember rage. said was falcon's one of the shiek's even match up.

TheManaLord said:

also shieks crappy jump speed make poke floats a bad stage for her too. i dunno why it's not even on the list.

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Not really Sheik does pretty good on floats just not as good as falcon, and why isn't it on the sheik section? it should at least be middle tier.

BTW great thread going along smoothly

mood4food77 said:

agaisnt ICs, i would ban FD not FoD, FoD is good against ICs i think

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Agree, you can stomp through the platforms pretty safely, if you time it against their u-tilts.

DarkKyanite said:

i am saying he said falcon's one of hte character that's good with all stages. and u should go search rage's posts in the falcon forum
u'll find out how amazing he is and i am not the only who flamed him.

ps.one of the stupidest thing i remember rage. said was falcon's one of the shiek's even match up.

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This guy has a dream life.
sitting at home on a fourm looking up reserch on someone to flame them
GG

REDRAGON said:

No dude. I dont know what Marths you have been fighting o_O
The tippers are so good for Marth and its so easy to edge guard Falcon once he is off.
PLUS the stage has a very small floor of death or whatever its called.
And Falcon being a ff dies easy on the bottom.
Marth has tippers, platform control, and edge guarding and more.
Falcon has nothing!!!


Redragon

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The tippers are so good for Marth and its so easy to edge guard Falcon once he is off.
marth edgeguards falcon easy on EVERY random-select stage other than dk64. yoshi's provides a cloud, plus a ledge to walljump on for invincibility (which DOES help him recover if you up-b instantly after the wj). yoshi's is probably the 2nd best falcon vs marth stage in terms of recovery.

PLUS the stage has a very small floor of death or whatever its called.
err, that means nothing. falcon will die from one of marth's dairs at any percent; having a bottom blast line close to the stage doesn't affect either of these characters. if ANYTHING, it helps falcon by allowing you to kill marth quicker with dairs if he doesn't meteor-cancel fast enough. if anything.

And Falcon being a ff dies easy on the bottom.
again, a high bottom-blast-line makes no difference in this matchup other than slightly aiding falcon.

Marth has tippers, platform control, and edge guarding and more.
marth has near-perfect edgeguarding on every stage save DK64. marth has platform control on every random-select stage save DK64. easy tippers for marth is great; you can DI them; and falcon has GREAT aerial-DI for a fastfaller.

Falcon has nothing!!!
falcon has:
-amazingly cheap platform control he does not have on any other stage; being able to knee and dair through platforms is amazing and makes KOing a whole lot easier
-close horizontal blast lines are GREAT for falcon vs ANY character. let's you successfully knee people at lower percents for easy kills.
-enhanced recovery options (walljumping, cloud). falcon doesn't get enhanced recovery options on ANY random-select stage other than yoshi's and DK64.

what stages do you consider good for falcon, against marth? jw.

Sure the cloud is a plus for falcon but the low blast line hurts falcon more cause he is the 2nd fastest faller!
+1 for Marth
Tippers(up-tilt and f-smash) help control platforms and make for easy kills.
Falcon can also do this but marth is better at this because he has more options and is quicker!
+1 for Marth

The thing you dont see is that Falcon has a great combo game and stages like Fd and Dk64 are great and roomy!
Stages like Yoshis story kill his combo game and the tippers and low blast line hurt him more.
If you still dont agree with me, then tell me why Ken ALWAYS takes Falcons to Yoshis story???




Redragon

REDRAGON said:

If you still dont agree with me, then tell me why Ken ALWAYS takes Falcons to Yoshis story???
Redragon

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Ken takes everyone to Yoshi story though.
Redragon to say Falcon has nothing wouldnt be right, like Hax said he has good platform control and a better recovery on this stage than most stages.
But its still one of Marths best stages if not his best stage, I would definatly not pick this stage against a Marth

REDRAGON said:

Sure the cloud is a plus for falcon but the low blast line hurts falcon more cause he is the 2nd fastest faller!
+1 for Marth
Tippers(up-tilt and f-smash) help control platforms and make for easy kills.
Falcon can also do this but marth is better at this because he has more options and is quicker!
+1 for Marth

The thing you dont see is that Falcon has a great combo game and stages like Fd and Dk64 are great and roomy!
Stages like Yoshis story kill his combo game and the tippers and low blast line hurt him more.
If you still dont agree with me, then tell me why Ken ALWAYS takes Falcons to Yoshis story???

Redragon

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wth? i already told you high (not low) bottom blast lines don't affect this matchup at all other than letting falcon kill easier with dairs, i'd change '+1 marth' to '+1 falcon,' if anything.

marth controls platforms on every random-select stage in the game other than DK64 and FD. if you're going to use this as a reason as to why yoshi's is a bad falcon vs marth stage then guess what? dreamland, FoD, stadium, and battlefield must suck too.

falcon has a great combo game on every stage except for FoD. that is because no other stage interrupts his combos like FoD does. being able to knee through platforms on yoshis is deadly and you really don't have to damage marth that much before a knee kills him. if you get him on the platform above you, he's as good as dead. :/

i'd rather fight on FoD than yoshi's story with falcon

but i hate both stages anyways....

marth can fsmash the plats. falcon can knee them. take your pick.

it's a very even stage in this matchup.

Actually marth barely gets on the platforms unless falcon hits him with something that forces marth to be on a platform, but marths usually avoid the platforms and only get on when they're sure they're gonna hit u with f-airs. And the small level hurts falcon more than it hurts marth.

marth's like platforms, utilt ***** on them, i know they're gonna need more than utilt but it still ***** on them

not like ganon who completely ***** anything on yoshi's story

For the rest of the list I would rather disscuss it since I don't play vs characters that are low on the tier list with Falcon. I don't know what stages those characters are good at, your opinions would be great.

bad stages vs Ganon, Link, Luigi

bad stages against ganon, YS, FoD, Battlefield

good stages-FD, dreamland, everything else

bad stages against link mute city, FoD thats all i can think of at the moment.
good stages would be everywhere else falcon is good at

mood4food77 said:

bad stages against ganon, YS, FoD, Battlefield

good stages-FD, dreamland, everything else

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Other than the random stages avoid GGs, and all the other levels falcon dont like, i'd be hesitant about going to brinstar since it's small