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Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

sagemoon

Smash Lord
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
1,162
Location
Lynnwood, WA
uair forward? ... you mean DI behind him then at some point DI towards him and uair?
i dont see how that would hit him if hes coming from below me... but i know you're good so ill trust you or trust me in that im misunderstanding lol
Umm yeah you're misunderstanding. You got the di behind him part right and then.... kinda lost it. But cactuar said a more detailed explanation of what i said and added a forward air part (although the forward air NEVER works with the fox's i play against T_T **** silent wolf and dan lol) so yeah just look at what cactuar wrote... hes much better than i am.


Edit: You're wrong, try practicing pivot grabs against computers. Its not too difficult and makes chain throwing a whole lot easier.
 

Professer-MMP

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
11
Location
Morristown, NJ
Umm yeah you're misunderstanding. You got the di behind him part right and then.... kinda lost it. But cactuar said a more detailed explanation of what i said and added a forward air part (although the forward air NEVER works with the fox's i play against T_T **** silent wolf and dan lol) so yeah just look at what cactuar wrote... hes much better than i am.


Edit: You're wrong, try practicing pivot grabs against computers. Its not too difficult and makes chain throwing a whole lot easier.
hahaha ok ill get to that.

as for the chain grab with pivot grabs... i suck at the timing for that... and people di mostly when you do that so it doesnt help all to much as your not chasing di
 

sagemoon

Smash Lord
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
1,162
Location
Lynnwood, WA
if they di up or slightly backwards they can get out of chain grab with a perfectly timed shine unless you pivot grab them.
 

Cort

Apple Head
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
Messages
6,448
Location
Newington, CT
Cactuar, where do you find the motivation to do things you don't really want to do? I mean, the motivation to actually go through and do things you don't really want to.

I always get epiphanies but then like an hour later I'm too lethargic to give a dammn anymore.

=/ Is it just me?
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
4,820
Location
Philadephia, PA
I have this problem where I can't say no to reasonable requests, so my motivation usually comes from someone else asking me to do things.

I don't really like playing smash to be honest, but the people around me have for so long that it's just kinda expected that I play. I don't really care about tournaments, so unless the person I'm playing is just clearly under my level, I tend to throw sets unless M2K or someone asks me to beat the person I'm playing.

To really motivate yourself, the thing you are doing needs to be something that you feel is furthering yourself or directly affecting you somehow. A lot of the time, we just don't feel that many things directly affect us in this way and end up not caring and losing interest.

Occasionally, I have found motivation in rivaly, such as my rivalry with you and my on again off again rivalry with chinesahh.
 

Witchking_of_Angmar

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
1,846
Location
Slowly starting to enjoy my mothertongue again. :)
So, Cort made a post about gimping with Marth, right:

I made a decent post about being really homosexual in the Marth vs Fox matchup in my thread. I don't think enough people know how to play the matchup M2K style. My style is dumbed down M2K style :D

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3735231&postcount=1501
And he mentions this ledge trick mew2king does, where if you're at the right distance from the ledge, dthrow fox, turn around dtilt, and you can cover all teching options.

Well, I found a vid where Mwe2King does it! Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WowKCUQX4v4

At 0:32 it starts, he dthrows once, regrabs, turnaround dtilts, regrabs, dthrows, turn around dtilt and PC Chris gets slapped in the face by the dtilt.

Just a nice example of what it looks like.
 

Witchking_of_Angmar

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
1,846
Location
Slowly starting to enjoy my mothertongue again. :)
So, Cort made a post about gimping with Marth, right:



And he mentions this ledge trick mew2king does, where if you're at the right distance from the ledge, dthrow fox, turn around dtilt, and you can cover all teching options.

Well, I found a vid where Mwe2King does it! Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WowKCUQX4v4

At 0:32 it starts, he dthrows once, regrabs, turnaround dtilts, regrabs, dthrows, turn around dtilt and PC Chris gets slapped in the face by the dtilt.

Just a nice example of what it looks like.
OK, so I'm requoting my post so more people see it, the Melee boards are near dead right now.

Also, so this isn't spam, I have a question for Cactuar:

What kind of goal to help you win do you have during the match? Like are you trying to force the opponent to make mistakes and then **** them for it, or are you just throwing out safe approaches and if it works, you kill them?

Sometimes I'm just not sure what I'm really supposed to be doing in a match before I hit them.
 

Cookiez

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
564
Location
London, UK
Thats a good question Witchking... I'd like to know the answer to that too O.o. At present I focus on my position relative to the stage, seems to work fairly well.
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
4,820
Location
Philadephia, PA
What kind of goal to help you win do you have during the match? Like are you trying to force the opponent to make mistakes and then **** them for it, or are you just throwing out safe approaches and if it works, you kill them?

Sometimes I'm just not sure what I'm really supposed to be doing in a match before I hit them.
I've been told that I control space on the stage to the point that people feel that they are near or off the edge almost the entire match.

My spacing strategy is to put the opponent into my effective range, which is slightly further than tipper distance (call this Far Spacing), then when attacking, that effective range changes to try and keep the person at slightly less than tipper distance (Close Spacing).

Using the Far Spacing, your primary objective is to bait the opponent. My biggest tool for baiting is approaching the opponent until I am at the Far Spacing, then stopping. A still opponent is extremely indimidating, and will generally force the other person into action. From there, it's all about knowing how to punish (reaction). Throwing out safe moves, such as sh back and fair, is included in Far Spacing.

With Close Spacing, the primary objective changes to pressuring your opponent until they trap themselves in a few different ways. The first trap is shielding. If you start pushing your opponent and they shield, you have the advantage. You know their options are limited to either jumping out of shield into attack, shield grabbing, dodging, rolling. If they don't use one of these options, their shield will deteriorate and you will have attack advantage as you can easily shield stab or even shield break (nb) if their reaction speed fails them. When they shield, I usually do one of three things, dependent on my current spacing. If I am already aerial, I will choose to either float back into perfect fsmash tipper range, land and wait, or float forward, late fair their shield, then dash through. With good timing (near frame perfect), you can not be shield grabbed, and the opponent will likely try, leaving them at a huge frame disadvantage, and allowing you to punish them however you please. At high level play, it's rare that someone will just run straight and grab as that is why people spot dodge. Dash dance in to grab range to pressure the dodge, back out and then in for the grab.

If you get used to these two spacings, it also becomes much easier to tech chase pretty much anything.


I describe this game, and most fighting games for that matter, as having two main factors. The first is the push and pull game. This is that time when you are approaching and baiting your opponent, waiting for each other to mess up. The second is the punishment game. Low level players will only be able to really punish with individual hits, but at the highest levels, those little gaps that you create using the push and pull game lead into death combos.

The only other parts of smash that are different from most fighting games are the edgeguarding and recovery games, as they don't really fall under either of those catagories.
 

Cort

Apple Head
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
Messages
6,448
Location
Newington, CT
Where does that Cactus come up with this?

edit// I just swing my sword with Marth and when it hits I hit them some more.
 

Cort

Apple Head
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
Messages
6,448
Location
Newington, CT
What strat? You just play Marth.

Also I haven't had posts in my Ask Cort thread in ages. Is it because Peach is a bad character?

Oh wait...
 

Pakman

WWMD
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 5, 2005
Messages
6,861
Location
Phoenix Foundation
What strat? You just play Marth.

Also I haven't had posts in my Ask Cort thread in ages. Is it because Peach is a bad character?

Oh wait...
The strat where I play Marth and press Z when you are within a 3 FD range of me.

And yes. It is because Peach is **** with her sucking vs top/high tiers.

<3
 

giantimi

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
69
Location
Virginia
Do any of you have general tips on the marth vs. sheik matchup? Like how do you approach a good sheik player and what are some good combos to land and stuff like that. Your help would be greatly appreciated.
 

dudutsai

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
1,714
Location
Lincoln MA
I did this weird thing with marth today.....
During the full run I turned around and he did the turnaround animation. Halfway through I fell off and grabbed the edge. I have never seen it happen before, but is it worth learning as an edgehog?

Edit: Oh how foolish I just read the thread below this
 

General_Zod

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 25, 2006
Messages
80
Location
Far, far away.
I got this doubt. I've starting to use M2k edguard against Cf players. For those who don't know, it consists on doing a d-throw near a ledge so they go outside the stage(they usually expect a d-tilr so they try to recover hugging the stage), wavedash backwards into a fair and a up-b to gimp them at low percent. Could anybody tell me if this works everytime?. Is there a way to escape this? I mean, after fair-ing them, they have no where to go?. Thanks in advance for the reply.
 

Witchking_of_Angmar

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
1,846
Location
Slowly starting to enjoy my mothertongue again. :)
I got this doubt. I've starting to use M2k edguard against Cf players. For those who don't know, it consists on doing a d-throw near a ledge so they go outside the stage(they usually expect a d-tilr so they try to recover hugging the stage), wavedash backwards into a fair and a up-b to gimp them at low percent. Could anybody tell me if this works everytime?. Is there a way to escape this? I mean, after fair-ing them, they have no where to go?. Thanks in advance for the reply.
It's better not to go off stage vs. C. Falcon, just throw them off and pick between dtilt and fsmash, there is nothing Falcon can do to get around either an fsmash or dtilt. Going off stage is much riskier. Just be gay and fsmash.
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
6,066
Location
Sunnyvale, CA
I can get around both FSmash and dtilt, Cactuar and M2K have repeatedly killed me with both in the past, now I can get around it 90% of the time. A CF onstage is also a very scary thing so once he's off, you should kill him.

If you learn to WD offstage fair>upB gimp, you will eventually get good enough to kill him every time. If you do it correctly there is nothing CF can do to survive, but it's possible for him to upB you if he predicts what you're going to do. He still dies though and if you can tech/aren't at 120% you'll live.
 

Mew2King

King of the Mews
Joined
Jul 18, 2002
Messages
11,263
Location
Cinnaminson (southwest NJ 5 min drive from Philly)
It's better not to go off stage vs. C. Falcon, just throw them off and pick between dtilt and fsmash, there is nothing Falcon can do to get around either an fsmash or dtilt. Going off stage is much riskier. Just be gay and fsmash.

I'm in a bad mood cuz Chu or Eggm or Dave didn't win that big tourney and if I entered and went to the finals I would have ***** it badly

soo

wow, you're an idiot, you suck ***, there's plenty you can do, IT'S CALLED SWEET SPOTTING AND THERE'S PLENTY OF ROOM FOR ERROR TO DO IT. Who F Smashes when that just gets you Uaired or Kneed, or if they sweet spot then I'm lagging from F smash so I get hit from a ledge hop aerial (hopefully it's Nair so i can crouch cancel it). If Marth down tilts that means I'm kneed as well, so I don't do that nearly as often as before, I rarely use either of those two anymore unless I'm more spaced from the edge where a dash off fair might not happen fast enough, but otherwise just dash off fair or counter are the best things to do.

Not going off stage as Marth vs a Falcon? You're an idiot, never speak again, there's no risk at all, just throw yourself off there and kill him. In this game damage doesn't matter that much, it's how good you are at winning, hitting them again off the edge makes you win, and if you don't dash off they can just DJ sweet spot the edge.

THERE'S TWO THINGS TO DO VS FALCON AS MARTH

you down throw dash off Fair, or down throw counter into spike

do one or the other, make it 50/50 and random

to get around it, just ****ing use your brain and DJ air dodge back on right away, or any random mix up that isn't super obvious and bad, which is mainly the one i just said.

I'm in such a ****ing bad mood cuz I should have entered the early big Brawl tourneys but I didn't. Goddddd
 

Brookman

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
6,202
Location
pikachu
Good news, Cactus responded to me on facebook, which means we can now proceed in lynching LOL_master.
 

Falcinho

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
831
Location
Austria
LOL_Master was shot twice last night. He also was knocked down by a car and burned by a group of smashers. Then he returned as a zombie but cactuar finally killed him with a reversed Ken combo.
 
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