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How is Bowser's performance in the elements of Brawl?

DRaGZ

Smash Champion
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Okay first off, please read this:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199108

Second of all, the reason I am posting this here is because I don't have set-out summaries of Bowser's performance in the elements of Brawl. So, I was wondering if you guys could do it, considering how you guys are the authorities on your own character.

Use this thread to discuss it, and then please post your results in the "Element of Brawl" thread linked above, using this format:

ZONING
  • On the ground
  • In the air
  • Off-stage

SPACING
  • Extreme long distance
  • Long distance
  • Medium distance
  • Short distance

KILLING
  • Killing power
  • Gimping potential

Thanks a bunch.
 

Flayl

Smash Hero
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Points of interest to go into (I'll contribute more tomorrow):

Zoning:
  • 4 zones on the ground: Fortress -- Grab -- Jabs/Klaw -- Ftilt
  • No zoning in air, just angle of approach
  • Invincibility frames on UpB, no other forms of recovery (unless klawing somebody who did a really poor job of edgeguarding counts)

Spacing:
  • None
  • SH Firebreath against no-projectile foes and some other rare situations
  • Ftilt and FSmash
  • Grab release setups, Shield fortressing, Jabs

Killing:
  • Tons of attacks that can KO although later %-wise than most heavies. Again mention grab release setups.
  • Can gimp a select few with Fire Breath, can Ftilt/Dtilt some. Otherwise it's just jumping off the edge and FAir/BAir
 

Inferno_blaze

Smash Lord
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Woking, UK
Spacing
Extreme : Bowser's got very little he can do but approach here which is never good. Fortunately his upB clanks with nearly all projecticles allowing him to approach with reasonable speed whilst blocking incoming attacks and on stages with ledges his klaw kancel lets him hop slightly faster towards them. Not a good position for bowser

Long: Pretty much the exact same as above only you could maybe hope to shFire if they continue spamming since fire blocks most and catch them but it rarely works out.

Medium: F-tilt and, if you get the opportunity, Fsmash are both good here and with grab release combos it's a pretty good area for bowser

Short: UpB! 'Nuff said.
 

Hyrus

Smash Journeyman
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Central US
While someone who gets to play the game with a lot of other people can probably answer this better than I can, i'm gonna stab at it anyway since i'm procrastinating something. :laugh: Feel free to contest points brought forth.

ZONING

  • On the ground - Bowser seems most powerful on the ground. His second jab is practically as long as his fTilt and is great for thwarting ground approaches. His upB acts as the ultimate, spammable, personal defense mechanism, quickly punishing anyone who gets in one of Bowser's blind spots. His uSmash is great, but most people know better and never provoke it. Very good on the ground.
  • In the air - While weaker in the air, Bowser's got the advantage of his versatile, high damage sideB against grounded foes. His fAir is quick and his bAir KO's very well. nAir is garbage, and dAir can mix it up if used sparingly to bait an opponent into dropping their shield early. He's good in the air for air pressure, but better on the ground overall.
  • Off-stage - Between the bAir and dTilt, Bowser can be nasty against someone trying to recover. His downB to ledge is versatile. His firecan be effective against certain characters. His own recovery is pretty gimpable, but very passable if properly aimed. Bowser feels better on stage than off, but isn't afraid to sneak out there for a kill.


SPACING

  • Extreme Distance - While not as bad off as Ganon, Bowser is a pretty big target. His sideB and upB can help, but his ability to dodge projectiles is automatically weaker due to his width. Generally, he's at his weakest.
  • Long Distance - Things aren't so bad here, but he's still at a disadvantage.
  • Medium Distance - He can use his jabs and fire to ward off a ground approach, tilt or put pressure through the air, or simply wait and upB defensively. Bowser's attacks "feel" their slowest here, and a bad move means the juggling game can begin. Of course, a well placed move means the opponent's juggling begins. This is where Bowser runs best.
  • Short Distance - While sometimes jabs, or a good sideB can do well, upB is the most reliable defense and offense in close combat. Bowser's grab/release is good, quickly refreshing most of his KO attacks and building up damage. While it can be hard to hit a close opponent in air to air and dSmash proves unreliable and situational at best, short distance is pretty decent for Bowser.

Killing

  • KO Power - Like Ganon, Bowser's moves have pretty solid KO potential. bAir, uTilt, fTilt, dTilt are probably his best, coupled with his firebreath/grabs for refreshing kill moves. His downB to ledge can KO well (i'd call it a pseudo gimp). I'd say Bowser is a strong KO-er.
  • Gimping Potential - While his fire can sometimes gimp recoveries, it's not always very effective. His sideB can win if he's a stock ahead, but it's generally hard to pull off and pretty avoidable since the opponent can control it too. Bowser seems more KO than gimp.
 

Teh Future

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Whenever I play Bowser, usually I will get 1-2 kills a match with a gimp. fair and bair have extremely good priority and range with huge knockback so one of them will KO at about 50-60 percent on most chars depending on how far off the screen you go Bowser. also has amazing ledge hogging opportunitys with his dspecial killing at low percents and if they are at really low percents it pretty much combos into an aerial, which can easily kill them with the percentage you just racked up from the bomb. Bowser's edgeguarding is imo the most underrated part of his arsenal.
 

DRaGZ

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Whenever I play Bowser, usually I will get 1-2 kills a match with a gimp. fair and bair have extremely good priority and range with huge knockback so one of them will KO at about 50-60 percent on most chars depending on how far off the screen you go Bowser. also has amazing ledge hogging opportunitys with his dspecial killing at low percents and if they are at really low percents it pretty much combos into an aerial, which can easily kill them with the percentage you just racked up from the bomb. Bowser's edgeguarding is imo the most underrated part of his arsenal.
I agree with the edgeguarding part. People often underestimate how far he can go out and still be able to return.
 

MK26

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He forgot to mention...zoning and killing are rated on a 5-point scale: amazing, above average, average, below average, terrible

And spacing is rated on a 3-point scale, comfortable, bearable, and uncomfortable

ZONING
On the ground - Average (3)
In the air - Below average (2)
Off-stage - Below average (2)

7 out of 15

SPACING
Extreme long distance - Uncomfortable (1)
Long distance - Bearable (2)
Medium distance - Comfortable (3)
Short distance - Comfortable (3)

9 out of 12

KILLING
Killing power - Amazing (5)
Gimping potential - Below average (2)

7 out of 10

That's 23 out of 37

Too lazy to write out why, but it seems about right.
 

Flayl

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ZONING
  • On the ground: With a Ftilt that has a huge range, 2 very quick attacks that swat opponents away when they're too close and tons of grab release options, Bowser really shines on the ground. Rating: Above Average
  • In the air: Bowser has poor reach on all of his aerials and has a huge weak point directly beneath him, which can be countered by bowser bombing the ledge. FAir and NAir come out fast while BAir and UAir are among the most powerful of their kind. His OverB however is excellent against grounded foes who intend to shield or even dodge Bowser's aerial approach, as it has no landing lag. Rating: Below Average
  • Off-stage: Bowser has very few options off the stage. His only recovery is his UpB, which thankfully, has invincibility frames and comes out fast. Horizontal recovery usually is not a problem, but Bowser's vertical recovery is only slightly better than DK's, there are very few situations where he is able to recover after being sent downward - not necessarilly by a spike. He has good ledgehop options in his FAir and OverB and a situational one in his UpB. Rating: Below Average

SPACING
  • Extreme long distance: As for Bowser specific options - Bowser can approach far off targets by staying in the air as much as possible with his klaw jumps or fortressing the opponent's projectiles. Rating: Uncomfortable.
  • Long distance: A Short hopped Firebreath works wonders against non-projectile foes that prefer remaining close to the ground. That's it. Rating: Uncomfortable.
  • Medium distance: While FTilt covers a great distance, it is a bit heavy on the commitment side. FSmash must be precisely spaced, as Bowser's hurtbox is carried with him as he performs the move. Rating: Bearable
  • Short distance: Bowser's defensive game is amazing: Fortress, jabs and grabs. Rating: Comfortable

KILLING
  • Killing power: Although he kills a little later than most of the heavies, he has a wide arsenal of KO moves so there is no fear of stale moves. Getting a grab can assure a KO on a lot of characters. Rating: Amazing
  • Gimping potential: Firebreath can gimp a select few characters. A downward tilted FTilt or a DTilt can gimp horizontal recoveries aimed for the ledge. Otherwise Bowser can jump off for a FAir or BAir. The former is faster while the latter has more knockback. Rating: Below Average

4 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 5 + 2 = 22

edit: ganondorf has below average in off stage so I'll go with that.
 

MK26

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OK, I'll agree with above average on the ground and uncomfortable at long distance, but Bowser's d-tilt, f-tilt, fire breath, f-air and to an extent d-smash are all fine medium-range moves. I'd probably go with comfortable. It's just inside Bowser's max range while being a little bit outside smaller characters' max ranges, so Bowser should have no problem being in this zone.
 

Flayl

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Down smash couldn't ever be considered medium distance, did you mean forward smash?

Yeah range isn't a problem with bowser. The issue is time, the longer distance moves are laggier.
 

MK26

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Down smash couldn't ever be considered medium distance, did you mean forward smash?
...I might have meant that...

Yeah range isn't a problem with bowser. The issue is time, the longer distance moves are laggier.
But remember, what's medium range to Bowser is 'out of range' to several smaller characters. Bowser's long range moves are for the most part laggy, but at least they'll hit at this distance.

All in all it's pretty much borderline: if there was an option for 'comfortable/bearable' valued at 2.5, that would definitely be where Bowser would end up.
 

DRaGZ

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Hello fellows. Okay, first off, two things.

The summary made by Flayl below is the one I'll be inserting into the topic:

ZONING
  • On the ground: With a Ftilt that has a huge range, 2 very quick attacks that swat opponents away when they're too close and tons of grab release options, Bowser really shines on the ground. Rating: Above Average
  • In the air: Bowser has poor reach on all of his aerials and has a huge weak point directly beneath him, which can be countered by bowser bombing the ledge. FAir and NAir come out fast while BAir and UAir are among the most powerful of their kind. His OverB however is excellent against grounded foes who intend to shield or even dodge Bowser's aerial approach, as it has no landing lag. Rating: Below Average
  • Off-stage: Bowser has very few options off the stage. His only recovery is his UpB, which thankfully, has invincibility frames and comes out fast. Horizontal recovery usually is not a problem, but Bowser's vertical recovery is only slightly better than DK's, there are very few situations where he is able to recover after being sent downward - not necessarilly by a spike. He has good ledgehop options in his FAir and OverB and a situational one in his UpB. Rating: Below Average

SPACING
  • Extreme long distance: As for Bowser specific options - Bowser can approach far off targets by staying in the air as much as possible with his klaw jumps or fortressing the opponent's projectiles. Rating: Uncomfortable.
  • Long distance: A Short hopped Firebreath works wonders against non-projectile foes that prefer remaining close to the ground. That's it. Rating: Uncomfortable.
  • Medium distance: While FTilt covers a great distance, it is a bit heavy on the commitment side. FSmash must be precisely spaced, as Bowser's hurtbox is carried with him as he performs the move. Rating: Bearable
  • Short distance: Bowser's defensive game is amazing: Fortress, jabs and grabs. Rating: Comfortable

KILLING
  • Killing power: Although he kills a little later than most of the heavies, he has a wide arsenal of KO moves so there is no fear of stale moves. Getting a grab can assure a KO on a lot of characters. Rating: Amazing
  • Gimping potential: Firebreath can gimp a select few characters. A downward tilted FTilt or a DTilt can gimp horizontal recoveries aimed for the ledge. Otherwise Bowser can jump off for a FAir or BAir. The former is faster while the latter has more knockback. Rating: Below Average

4 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 5 + 2 = 22

edit: ganondorf has below average in off stage so I'll go with that.
Unless you guys disagree, I am going to put it in there.

Second, I have included a "Survivability" section in there. This is Bowser's rating (ratings go Easy, Intermediate, Difficult)

Bowser
  • Recovery: Bowser's heavy, so he ain't getting killed too easily. If he's off-stage, his Bowser Fortress, while not as long-ranged or high-priority as Donkey Kong's copter, is pretty difficult to gimp. Plus, his vertical recovery is much more robust than Donkey Kong's. However, his jumps are pretty terrible. Rating: Intermediate
  • Staying Power: Heavy as hell, above average spacing, and awesome punishment options makes this spiked turtle very difficult to kill out-right. Rating: Easy

Agree? Disagree? Hate? Please tell me.
 
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