Need Frame Data about a certain thing?

Just ask, I'll see if I can help you. I'll keep editing the first post with new information people ask for so the same question doesn't get asked twice. If for some reason I can't help you, one of the fellow Sheik players here probably can.

SO READ THE FIRST POST BEFORE YOU ASK.
If you don't, I'm going to ignore your post.


Lets get started on the info.

So how many frames of shieldstun does a needle give?
7 frames of shield stun on a completely held down shield, and 10 frames of shield stun on a light shield if you hit their shield with one needle.

Does the shieldstun increase for every needle and if so by how much?
23 frames of shield stun on a strong shield, 24 frames of shield stun on a light shield starting when the first needle hits if you hit them with fully charged needles.(note this is when you do standing needles, too lazy to test if aerial needles matter)

If possible can someone tell me how many frames it takes for sheik to drop through a platform and needle on say... battlefield?
22 frames to completely pass thru the platform and throw needles.(on battlefield)

How much stun is there if u crouch cancel a needle?
Theres 9 frames of hitstun while crouching, though it's not really crouch cancelling as you're still getting knocked back in the same sort of animation as if you were standing. Theres 15 frames of hitstun if you're standing.(from one needle)

What's your window of error for a completely invincible Shino Stall?
You have 11 frames to start another Up+B after the edgegrabbing animation is done.

How fast can you cancel a jab?
You can cancel a jab on frame 16.

What's the window in between jab cancels?
There are 14 frames without hitboxes between doing two frame perfect jabs.(I suggest doing the second jab also, because that interupts the first jabs animation on frame 10, and it takes just as long as the first one does to cancel.)

Lessee...

What's your window of error for a completely invincible Shino Stall?

i think its something like 10 frames, its really easy

whats the window in between jab cancels?

elvenarrow3000 said:

Lessee...

What's your window of error for a completely invincible Shino Stall?

Click to expand...

You have 11 frames to start another Up+B after the edgegrabbing animation is done.



@Soap - I don't understand what you mean jab cancels...like how fast can you cancel your jab?

that too, but i was looking for how many frames in between frame perfect down canceled jabs

You can cancel a jab on frame 16.

There are 14 frames without hitboxes between doing two frame perfect jabs.

Awesome, thanks!

how many frames are there inbetween me slideing around on grease island?

u wisconsin kids r so weird

I know <33333

How about: How many frames until Sheik can cancel charging her needles after she starts? Also, how many needles hit in a fully charged head of needles and how many frames does it take to charge one unit of needles?
I ask this because to me, it seems like if you just charge, then cancel the charge, and then do it again later, you don't actually store any more needles. I've done this before multiple times and I never end up throwing any more than one unit of needles (Which I think is three physical needles, but I would think we would count them as one unit of needles since you can't actually throw ONE needle).

u can cancel almost instantly, if u do it quick enough she doesnt actually store any needles, there is a sound effect if u listen that u can hear when a needle charges, dont know frames it'd prolly be like 30 around 1/3 to 1/2 a second

also u can throw one needle why not ?

Needle Storm

Holding 1st needle: 8
Set that frame as 1.
Another needle at 19
Set that as 1 (etc)
Releasing B at frame 1 counts with
new needle.

When you release B…
Needles released at 4, 7, 10, 13, 16,
19
Last frame: 40

When fired from the air…
Needles released at 11, 14, 17, 20,
23, 26
Auto cancels when landed
Last frame: 39

Needles last 30 frames

for aerial needle, is that 11 frames from neutral, or from already aerial charging, its weird that its a quicker release on the ground.

also, it takes 8 to charge the first, then 11 to charge the second? thats weird no?

anyway those questions r nonsense, what apples would like to know as would i is how many frames after u hit store on the ground till they actually store and allow u to shield. ive stored needles as people were rushing me and was unable to get the shield up in time, i guess cuz there is also a few shield start up frames in addition to needle store, how many is the shield btw too, so if u are charging needles, how long till your shield actually comes up?

frame data is such a nonsense luxury lol

its amazing, u post so much and they all have tons of

by SuperDoodleMan

If you don't understand a term, look
it up in the Terminology txt
-------------------------------------
Slice 1

Total: 17
Hit: 2-3
IASA: 16
Window for second slice: 3-25
Second slice begins: 10 (or later)
-------------------------------------
Slice 2

Total: 18
Hit: 3-5
IASA: 17
Window for jabs: 2-18
Jabs start: 10
-------------------------------------
Jabs

fast
-------------------------------------
F Tilt

Total: 29
Hit: 5-10
IASA: 27
-------------------------------------
D Tilt

Total: 29
Hit: 5-8
IASA: 28
-------------------------------------
U Tilt

Total: 33
Hit: 5-10, 19-24
IASA: 26
-------------------------------------
F Smash

Total: 50
Hit: 12, 27-29
Charge frame: 5
IASA: 46
-------------------------------------
U Smash

Total: 47
Hit: 12, 14-16
Charge frame: 10
Head and forearms invincible: 12-16
IASA: 40
-------------------------------------
D Smash

Total: 49
Hit: 5-9, 16-19, 22-24
Charge frame: 2
Legs invincible: 5
IASA: 46
-------------------------------------
Dash attack

Total: 37
Hit: 6-12
IASA: 36
-------------------------------------
N-Air

Total: 48
Hit: 3-30
IASA: 42
Auto cancel: <2 31>
Landlag: 16
L canceled: 8
-------------------------------------
U-Air

Total: 39
Hit: 5-20
IASA: 37
Auto cancel: <4 30>
Landlag: 24
L canceled: 12
-------------------------------------
B-Air

Total: 37
Hit: 4-19
Auto cancel: <3 25>
Landlag: 16
L canceled: 8
-------------------------------------
D-Air

Total: 48
Hit: 15-33
Auto cancel: <2
Landlag: 20
L canceled: 10
-------------------------------------
F-Air

Total: 33
Hit: 5-7
Auto cancel: <4 11>
Landlag: 16
L canceled: 8
-------------------------------------
Ledge stand <100%

Total: 34
Invincible: 1-30
-------------------------------------
Ledge stand 100%>

Total: 59
Invincible: 1-55
-------------------------------------
Ledge roll <100%

Total: 49
Invincible: 1-39
-------------------------------------
Ledge roll 100%>

Total: 79
Invincible: 1-71
-------------------------------------
Ledge attack <100%

Total: 54
Invulnerable: 1-21
Hit: 25-34
-------------------------------------
Ledge attack 100%>

Total: 69
Invulnerable: 1-53
Hit: 57-59
-------------------------------------
Ledge jump <100%

Total: 57
Invulnerable: 1-14
Soonest FF: 40
-------------------------------------
Ledge jump 100%>

Total: 57
Invincible: 1-19
Soonest FF: 45
-------------------------------------
Grab

Total: 30
Grab: 7-8
-------------------------------------
Running grab

Total: 40
Grab: 8-9
-------------------------------------
Needle Storm

Holding 1st needle: 8
Set that frame as 1.
Another needle at 19
Set that as 1 (etc)
Releasing B at frame 1 counts with
new needle.

When you release B…
Needles released at 4, 7, 10, 13, 16,
19
Total: 40

When fired from the air…
Needles released at 11, 14, 17, 20,
23, 26
Auto cancels upon landing
Last frame: 39

Needles last 30 frames
-------------------------------------
Chain

Comes out on 22
Fully extended at 34
Earliest retraction starts on 44

Upon B release…
Pullin hurt: 19-31 (sooner if
swingin)
Last frame: 41
-------------------------------------
Transform

Total: 62
Invulnerable: 27-36
First frame of Zelda: 37

(Zelda's Transform is not the same)
-------------------------------------
Vanish

Total: 94
Hit: 36-42
Invincible: 18-55
The frame of choosing direction: 35
Landlag: 30
Landfallspeciallag: 4
-------------------------------------
Taunt

Total: 100
Hmm!: 23
-------------------------------------

Jump
Airborne on frame 4

Air time: 50
Earliest FF: 26
FF air time: 37

SH air time: 38
Earliest FF: 20
SH FF air time: 27

2nd jump earliest FF: 27
-------------------------------------

Air Dodge
Invulnerable 4-29 out of 49

Ground dodge
Invulnerable 2-15 out of 22

Roll
Invulnerable 4-19 out of 31

Landing lag: 4

Dash becomes run at frame 8
Turn-jump Threshold: 21
Run turnaround: 21





________________
final line- figure this will be a nice reference

U Tilt

Total: 33
Hit: 5-10, 19-24 >.> <.<
IASA: 26

WOw i knew this move was broken....... tied for fastest startup tilt along with dsmash. only 9 frames vulnerability before a second move comes down in front with ftilt range to protect u, and u can interupt that 2 frames later with a jab dsmash or another utilt. statistically this is one of the best moves framewise ive seen besides for like shine.......

9 frames...u need to perfectly time the shieldgrab, it is shieldgrabbable though.

here comes the trick that will revolutionize your sheik, after a sidestep, dash through shield, pivot utilt the BACK of the shield.... flawless victory.

many other easy setups to cross up (empty short hop reverse needle land behind), safer on shields than dsmash, counters sidesteps to a degree, virtually unpunishable. Its only weakness is the CC.

anyone have the shield damage/hitstun data for both hits?

I can't empty pivot into tilts because I fail.

Could you just wd turn around or would that be too slow?

that works too, pivot is more precise spacing+ quicker, but whatever ur used to, just walk through their shield if u feel like it. not everyone lets u walk around though, its funny when they do, i keep just keep pacing... dope mindgames

i take it back... frame data is cool, so many strategies r forming in my head, its so easy to pick out the best move for any given situation

I dunno, that's all the info I have on needles. I could look on Seanson's system, but I doubt it has anything more.

if im reading this right, nair oos comes out on same frame as shieldgrab airborne 4, +3 startup for nair =7=grab, so why bother nairing at all when nair has no real followup?

Cuz it has more range?

o ya....... lol.. i guess i was only seeing stuff in frames for a minute there

lol

/10char

Time to put some frame data to use

According to Alan, a Peach main, it is possible to pummel once at 0 percent and buffer a throw with C-stick afterwards. This ought to be inescapable. Now, if this is true...

What is the maximum amount of pummels Sheik can do (depending on percentage), prior to buffering a dthrow, while it being inescapable? E.g. on Fox, if you can pummel once at 0 percent, how many times can you pummel at 20%, 30% etc. ?

A chart for this would be ideal, thank you.

Bump

Bump

When you do the needle store with sheik to turn around in air, how soon can you cancel the needles? How long is the needle animation before you can store? I think I keep pressing it too early because I often don't store it when I'm sure I've hit R.

Pauer said:

You can find most of that info in the Sheik Hitboxes and Frame Data thread:

You can cancel the needles as soon as you hold the first one, on frame 8. Maybe that should be added in the thread. Also, after you input the cancel, there are another 7 frames of sheik putting the needles down, meaning you can earliest act on the 15th frame after pressing B.
I also think it's easier to use Z or light press the shoulder buttons to get the exact timing. Personally, I use Z.

Click to expand...

Thanks so much, this helps.