Brawl+ (Competitive Hacks): Codes, Videos, and Discussion (THREAD OUT OF DATE)

Team Giza · Nov 12, 2008

Yeroc said:
Wavedashing = ground movement control = more varied approach, defense, and mixup options It's just a deeper game that way.

It is what you would think right away but it isn't the reality of the situation. Yes it adds more options. However, what Kupo and I are arguing is that having wavedashing shallows out the game by becoming overall the best option in most situation and thus overshadowing a lot of the gameplay that make up brawl. Not only that but in brawl the wavedash length is longer and doesnt vary as much from character to character which makes characters approaches more similar and thus makes the game have less variety. Adding dashdancing would do a lot more good for the game than the current wavedashing ever will.

All of you against wavedashing, even though you're comparing it to Melee, sound exactly like the people who were initially against its widespread use in that game. For serious, you do.

Look I like wavedashing a lot in melee but what he have right now in brawl just isn't as fined tuned as the real thing. It has less uses but its uses are far more overpowering then anything wavedashing gave you in melee.

I would really like to get this out of the way and actually try to think of ways to change the other defensive systems.

WoodyWiggins · Nov 12, 2008

Yeroc said:
Wavedashing = ground movement control = more varied approach, defense, and mixup options. It's just a deeper game that way. I see very little difference between the changes wavedashing makes in Brawl to the changes it did in Melee (speaking as someone who was around to see the proliferation - this isn't my original account). All of you against wavedashing, even though you're comparing it to Melee, sound exactly like the people who were initially against its widespread use in that game. For serious, you do.

I was all for wavedashing at first, but now it just doesn't sit well. We are seeing the same techniques from Melee slowly making there way to Brawl(+). As much as I LOVE Melee, I don't want another one. Simply put, Wavedashing is over shadowing Brawl's natural, untapped techniques. Specifically, SJR. That technique can take Brawl to new heights. Just look at what it did for Ganon! (Search Flight of Ganon) SJR is the root to three truly genuine AT's, Flight of Ganon (I think it's called), Koopa Hop/ Koopa Klaw, and ISJR. I just think that SJR/ISJR should be delved into, from a hack standpoint, and improved.

kupo15 · Nov 12, 2008

That ganon AT is truly amazing. Im afraid to fight my ganon friend when he masters that. I showed him today and he was so happy! SJR is amazing!

zxeon · Nov 13, 2008

Brawl has no untapped techniques I think we have proved that. The game was made to constrict you to only one style of play (Metaknight always wins style) because without any other options he is the paramount of the current metagame. He has all the answers.

PS: lol at that ganon tech. Thats the kind of untapped potential Brawl has, situational bullcrap.

Smash Brothers is about options proportional to your skill not restrictions on it.

kupo15 · Nov 13, 2008

zxeon said:
Brawl has no untapped techniques I think we have proved that. The game was made to constrict you to only one style of play (Metaknight always wins style) because without any other options he is the paramount of the current metagame. He has all the answers.

PS: lol at that ganon tech. Thats the kind of untapped potential Brawl has, situational bullcrap.

Wow zxeon. If you actually think that ganon tech is situational bullcrap, then you have know idea what your talking about. That is a very unique and important tech for Ganon and I cant wait to see how my friend uses it. He does use the wizards foot and when I avoid it, he is vulnerable and this wont make him as vulnerable. He can also follow me really high up to ganoncide or whatever.

Whats wrong with things being situational? I can go as far to say that wavedashing in melee is situational as well. You use it a lot, but not all the time. There are times where it hurts you or times where wavedashing is not the best option.

Smash Brothers is about options proportional to your skill not restrictions on it.

Actually, if you think you just described wavedashing in brawl, you are wrong. Wavedashing in brawl is sooooooo easy that it gives you more options with less skill.

You just want it in the game so you can wavespaz.......:\

zxeon · Nov 13, 2008

You really wont be able to just DI away from it when you see it coming from a continent away?

I wasn't talking about wavedashing it's not the only option a real Smash Brothers game gives you.

oliwonder · Nov 13, 2008

I'd like to bring another aspect of the MAD to the table that i've been greatly incorporating into my experimental gameplay, and this is not about the wavedash.

Another thing that the MAD does in changing brawl's aerial game is the new crazy waveland/triangle jump. As hopefully everyone has noticed, the momentum gained from the waveland/triangle jump is crazy! IMO it definitely improves aerial gameplay. Everyone complains about the lack of aerial movement in brawl, and the new waveland/triangle jumping in brawl makes up for it. Although this tech came from melee, the mechanics of it are greatly different in brawl. If anything, I think the use of wavelanding/triangle jumping will be even bigger and deeper in brawl+ gameplay. SH aerial to waveland/triangle jump is the new SHFFL.

Just some more food for thought for the MAD debate. I suggest to try experimenting more with that besides just focusing on wavedashing and see how it makes you feel about MAD

Ryuker · Nov 13, 2008

WoodyWiggins said:
I was all for wavedashing at first, but now it just doesn't sit well. We are seeing the same techniques from Melee slowly making there way to Brawl(+). As much as I LOVE Melee, I don't want another one. Simply put, Wavedashing is over shadowing Brawl's natural, untapped techniques. Specifically, SJR. That technique can take Brawl to new heights. Just look at what it did for Ganon! (Search Flight of Ganon) SJR is the root to three truly genuine AT's, Flight of Ganon (I think it's called), Koopa Hop/ Koopa Klaw, and ISJR. I just think that SJR/ISJR should be delved into, from a hack standpoint, and improved.

For the millionth time we are not able to get a new melee. We simply can't. Why is everyone so scared that it will be the same. All we gotta worry about it what is most exciting to play and watch. Wavedashing adds more options but it's not broken by any means. You can't infinite spotdodge all the time while sliding. Heck if you wanna spot dodge spam just stand still and spot dodge all the time since the spotdodge is so fast. But we still get hit out of that.

Using wavedashing doesn't alter the sjr at all so I don't get why you bring this up. People are making it seem like it will overshadow untapped techniques but just like in melee your gonna see a large group over using the technique and getting severely punished for it. Wavedashing should be done with care and it's not the best choice in every situation. With snake for example it's still in your best interest to go for the mortarslide. But in addition you can now do a different one using the wavedash.

Playing brawl+ with gravity, MAD and hitstun is still not like melee at all if only for the lack of crouch cancelling. But it did get a lot deeper and a lot more exciting to play. Your actually being rewarded for the the hits you get in more now then you were in normal brawl. And you have a lot more control over were you place your finishing hits.

I'd also like to bring up the gravity modifier btw. I'm currently using 1.1 (3F8CCCCC) for gravity and 1.0625 (3F880000) for damage. Not to sure about the correctness of the latter yet but I'm loving the 1.1 gravity. Most chars still have their double arials. The l-cancell feels better cause of the fall speed and if a char lacks a double arial the often make up for it cause of the new juggling capabilities they gain.
It's not like that is changing the game too much though cause the better players were attempting juggles in normal brawl as well. Look at chars that do best they are often the chars that are the best at getting in these juggles and comboes.or chars that are good at gimping. Or for a char like snake they are very strong and die slow. But with this change a lot of the chars are capable of juggling, comboing and gimping.

But it also makes wavedashing timing feel better since you hit the ground faster.

I'm loving were this is going at the moment. We might actually end up with a game that's even faster paced then melee was or one with more options.

For the moment I'm gonna say that for the short time I spent with these alterations I think not just the potential of 1 or 2 chars has bumped but instead the entire cast's gameplay is bumped. And so has the use of their attacks. Throws are a lot more usefull now then they were at first.

Makkun · Nov 13, 2008

WoodyWiggins said:
I was all for wavedashing at first, but now it just doesn't sit well. We are seeing the same techniques from Melee slowly making there way to Brawl(+). As much as I LOVE Melee, I don't want another one. Simply put, Wavedashing is over shadowing Brawl's natural, untapped techniques. Specifically, SJR. That technique can take Brawl to new heights. Just look at what it did for Ganon! (Search Flight of Ganon) SJR is the root to three truly genuine AT's, Flight of Ganon (I think it's called), Koopa Hop/ Koopa Klaw, and ISJR. I just think that SJR/ISJR should be delved into, from a hack standpoint, and improved.

O___O;

We could hack Brawl to give ISJR a larger window than 1 frame. :D :D :D :D :D

Milos · Nov 13, 2008

Does everyone here like logic?

I sure do....

If you don't like a certain code, I'm almost positive that you're not required to put it in your wii. funny concept, huh?

cease your *****ing, at once.

TLMSheikant · Nov 13, 2008

I haven't been able to play brawl+ but i'd sure love to.

kupo15 · Nov 13, 2008

EDIT:: Sorry. Look down

kupo15 · Nov 13, 2008

zxeon said:
You really wont be able to just DI away from it when you see it coming from a continent away?

I wasn't talking about wavedashing it's not the only option a real Smash Brothers game gives you.

Srsly, if you have no experience with ganon or played against a good ganon.....shut up! You look really stupid when you say that techniques like that are not useful. Its just as bad as saying wingdashing is not useful!

Makkun said:
O___O;

We could hack Brawl to give ISJR a larger window than 1 frame. :D :D :D :D :D

Thats not a bad idea!

Ryuker said:
Wavedashing adds more options but it's not broken by any means. You can't infinite spotdodge all the time while sliding. Heck if you wanna spot dodge spam just stand still and spot dodge all the time since the spotdodge is so fast. But we still get hit out of that.

People are making it seem like it will overshadow untapped techniques but just like in melee your gonna see a large group over using the technique and getting severely punished for it. Wavedashing should be done with care and it's not the best choice in every situation. With snake for example it's still in your best interest to go for the mortarslide. But in addition you can now do a different one using the wavedash. .

No. it is the best movement choice you can make. You have all of your options and are never vulnerable using wavedashing like you were in melee.....ever...

My vid should prove that.

Makkun · Nov 13, 2008

Milos said:
Does everyone here like logic?

I sure do....

If you don't like a certain code, I'm almost positive that you're not required to put it in your wii. funny concept, huh?

cease your *****ing, at once.

Well, that's obvious. What we are trying to do is create a standard for Brawl+.

MuBa · Nov 13, 2008

Create a standard after we get the necessary codes for it.

WoodyWiggins · Nov 13, 2008

Ryuker said:
I'd also like to bring up the gravity modifier btw. I'm currently using 1.1 (3F8CCCCC) for gravity and 1.0625 (3F880000) for damage. Not to sure about the correctness of the latter yet but I'm loving the 1.1 gravity. Most chars still have their double arials. The l-cancell feels better cause of the fall speed and if a char lacks a double arial the often make up for it cause of the new juggling capabilities they gain.
It's not like that is changing the game too much though cause the better players were attempting juggles in normal brawl as well. Look at chars that do best they are often the chars that are the best at getting in these juggles and comboes.or chars that are good at gimping. Or for a char like snake they are very strong and die slow. But with this change a lot of the chars are capable of juggling, comboing and gimping.

But it also makes wavedashing timing feel better since you hit the ground faster.

I'm loving were this is going at the moment. We might actually end up with a game that's even faster paced then melee was or one with more options. . . .

. . . Yep, I pretty much rest my case. Especially that phrase in the middle about how the timing feels so muh better. If Wavedashing continues to improve, why would anyone want to SJR/ISJR during battle? And why is L-cancel still being brought up if this is not a Melee 2.0 (Yeah, I said it

) attempt? Is there something wrong with the one already in Brawl? Does it not feel as good as the one in Melee? Heh, "We're not trying to re-create Melee, we just want wavedashing because it gives more options." Bull. Wavedashing significantly raised the standard of Melee. You're taking a key technique that is unique to Melee, (i.e. when you think Melee, it's hard not to think about Wavedashing) and placing it Brawl with the attempts to better the game, but really what's happening is that Wavedash doesn't fit so the only way to make it fit is to make the game more Melee like. . . no?

Makkun said:
O___O;

We could hack Brawl to give ISJR a larger window than 1 frame. :D :D :D :D :D

Are you serious!

metaXzero · Nov 13, 2008

Umm...WHY would we want to care about ISJR now? What can come from it when we have L-cancel hacks? Curious....

MuBa · Nov 13, 2008

I can see this now...J-Canceling...in order to cancel any aerial land lag you've gotta jump as soon as you land...now THAT would be funny.

MBlaze · Nov 13, 2008

WTF is with all these cancels? :

S
L
M
J

Jesus, just use Manual L.

metaXzero · Nov 13, 2008

Marioblaze said:
WTF is with all these cancels? :

S
L
M
J

Jesus, just use Manual L.

Or S-cancel. Too bad the auto L-cancel and M-cancel hacks haven't surfaced...

Ryuker · Nov 13, 2008

WoodyWiggins said:
. . . Yep, I pretty much rest my case. Especially that phrase in the middle about how the timing feels so muh better. If Wavedashing continues to improve, why would anyone want to SJR/ISJR during battle? And why is L-cancel still being brought up if this is not a Melee 2.0 (Yeah, I said it) attempt? Is there something wrong with the one already in Brawl?

There is no l-cancell in brawl. There is a way to do another arial withouth landing (rediculously hard to time btw and restricts you in when you do the arial). L-cancell allows for more then just following up with another arial. It allows you to half the time of a lag animation. This means you can attack close to the ground instead of high. You can attack close to hitting the ground and still follow up. Those are more options.
SJR grants you another jump if you do a rising arial fullhopped and buffer the jump at the right time. It's rediculously harder to time and a lot less usefull. It has uses but not the same as L-cancell gives you.

With these codes you get both. So whats the problem?

You're taking a key technique that is unique to Melee, (i.e. when you think Melee, it's hard not to think about Wavedashing) and placing it Brawl with the attempts to better the game, but really what's happening is that Wavedash doesn't fit so the only way to make it fit is to make the game more Melee like. . . no?

I can understand how you draw that conclusion but I ensure you it's not why I think wavedashing should be in. Wavedashing doesn't work in melee cause it's in melee, it works cause it provides you with spacing options. If it were in ssb64 it would improve the gameplay in that game as well. You have more manouveribility using it and thus you can follow up better using it. This means that after a combo you can use it to chase and land that final blow.
Were not adjusting the gravity to make the wavedash better were increasing it for juggling possibility and to enhance the use of throws besides just chainthrowing and to improve the edge guarding game. The teching game is actually an issue again with the gravity change.

I simply said that using the gravity the wavedash is nicer to time but the options the MAD gives you are the same.

@ Kupo:
Yes you can wavedash out and that could be your best option to escape but your forgetting that the attacker can also follow you with a wavedash. So you'll still be chased and it's not gonna mean that your just safe by wavedashing away.

I said it in the post directed at Kupo as well but I'll say it a bit differently this time. Look up any vid that players favorite that has comments like this games is starting to get good or that was exciting. Look up any favorite smash matches in either melee or brawl.
The ones that are favorite will almost always contain a moment that one player has the other player in a long string of hits and manages to finish him off after that or a very dangerous gimp. It get's people excited. Thats what spectators want to see and thats also what most players truly want to do. All these adjustments are simply helping us to enhance that experience and increase the chance of those situations happening.

MuBa · Nov 13, 2008

Here's an interesting thought...how about we can try to make a Glide-Smash technique?

You know how we did a glide-toss using an item which propelled us and threw it, we can do the same thing but be able to do any smash out of it...and give everyone that kind of momentum, and not make it exclusively for Diddy and ROB.

It'll be kinda like a watered-down wavedash BUT it'll increase your momentum and will enable some sort of combo ending move.

Ryuker · Nov 13, 2008

And how would you suggest we do that? We can't write the code for it ourselves we can only change values of existing variables.

MuBa · Nov 13, 2008

Ryuker said:
And how would you suggest we do that? We can't write the code for it ourselves we can only change values of existing variables.

1. We ask a hacker?

2. If PW can make a wavedashing code. I'm sure he'll be able to pull this one off too. Dunno how many lines it'll take.

3. I'm not too serious about this technique. It's just a little idea I had in my mind. Sounded pretty unique to me.

Ryuker · Nov 13, 2008

No but he can't write code for it either. From what I understand he only adjust the values and find the correct Hexadecimal codes in the memory.

HylianBoy · Nov 13, 2008

Take it to the Tournies

I do think some tournaments should use these hacks. It's a grand idea, even though i'm not too big on hacking. As I have stated on my other account.

Spinner said:
The only hack I would accept is the No-Trip hack. Sure it would be fun for all hacks to be used in like friendly tournaments. However, in the competitive tournaments would be sorta odd. Maybe it's because this is all just so sudden.

Anyway, if they are to be used in tournaments, then it should not go in the same field as normal Brawl tournaments. Because they both use to different skills, with the Hacked Brawl being a little more advanced.

{{~|Official Brawl Tournament|~}}

{{~>Official HACKED-Brawl Tournament<~}}

In other words. So yeah, I believe it would be a good idea overall.

MBlaze · Nov 13, 2008

I quit supporting Brawl+, too many ******** ideas going around for the standards of Brawl+ for example:

All kinds of weird **** and cancels like auto L, M, J and ****.

******** ideas about changing characters and gameplay speed.

It just that too much stupid **** is being put out there and accepted by lazy *** people who don't want to learn techs or make them so punishable that they aren't worth using.

Bottom line is I'm done supporting because it seems like this is turning into more of a scrubby Smash than competitive. I'll come back if this crap clears up but for now I'm done.

Justblaze647 · Nov 13, 2008

@ Hylianboy: omg, your sig is so win!

Zoids-Raven · Nov 13, 2008

Marioblaze said:
I quit supporting Brawl+, too many ******** ideas going around for the standards of Brawl+ for example:

All kinds of weird **** and cancels like auto L, M, J and ****.

******** ideas about changing characters and gameplay speed.

It just that too much stupid **** is being put out there and accepted by lazy *** people who don't want to learn techs or make them so punishable that they aren't worth using.

Bottom line is I'm done supporting because it seems like this is turning into more of a scrubby Smash than competitive. I'll come back if this crap clears up but for now I'm done.

I'm sick of people trying to turn brawl into melee, most of the people I have talked to that hate brawl, hate it because they suck at it.
And use it's lack of speed for there john. (NOOOOOO JOOHNNSS SOOON)

oliwonder · Nov 13, 2008

Ryuker you got those gravity and damage numbers i suggested in the high gravity analysis thread hah nice. I'm glad to find common ground with someone. The thing with these hacks is that on paper or just reading about it or watching it or making theories about it, it looks like and reasons out that the game would turn out to be a melee 2.0. However, when actually playing this game with those hacks, it definitely does not play like another melee. Sure, there are techniques that are coming from melee with these hacked mechanics. However, in terms of actual gameplay, the effects of those techniques and mechanics differ here in brawl. For example, like i mentioned earlier, the new mechanics of wavelanding/triangle jumping becoming the new shffl in brawl+. I know for a fact i barely used wavelanding or especially triangle jumping before in melee. But now it's becoming a big part of my gameplay with brawl+.

And as far as keeping brawl+ as close to brawl, I think that even with no tripping on, it already creates a different kind of game that is not brawl. Before, with tripping, we had to be aware of how we were controlling our character in terms of movement and combination of attacks to avoid tripping. This influenced brawl's gameplay. However, with the no trip code on, that is something we do not have to think about when we play, thus changing brawl's gameplay into something different. So since it's already a different game, why not be open and continue to use the other hacks since we have this opportunity to? Yeah, wavedashing doesn't feel natural in brawl, but so does not having to think about tripping(in terms of brawl). Wavedashing in brawl+(in terms of mechanics) definitely does not feel like melee either.

kupo15 · Nov 13, 2008

Marioblaze said:
I quit supporting Brawl+, too many ******** ideas going around for the standards of Brawl+ for example:

All kinds of weird **** and cancels like auto L, M, J and ****.

******** ideas about changing characters and gameplay speed.

It just that too much stupid **** is being put out there and accepted by lazy *** people who don't want to learn techs or make them so punishable that they aren't worth using.

Bottom line is I'm done supporting because it seems like this is turning into more of a scrubby Smash than competitive. I'll come back if this crap clears up but for now I'm done.

Calm down mario. None of this stuff is finalized. We cant finalize anything unless all codes are out and perfected.

MBlaze · Nov 13, 2008

kupo15 said:
Calm down mario. None of this stuff is finalized. We cant finalize anything unless all codes are out and perfected.

Hmm... true I guess... alright but if any of these get made and finalized I'm done.

MuBa · Nov 13, 2008

Right now what we need is a proper hitstun code more than anything else (Oh and btw I was being sarcastic about glide smashing, which imo would be a nice AT, and J-Canceling).

We can worry about wavedashing and other stuff until we've tested out everything we can think of once we get the hitstun code fixed.

MBlaze · Nov 13, 2008

MuBa said:
Right now what we need is a proper hitstun code more than anything else (Oh and btw I was being sarcastic about glide smashing, which imo would be a nice AT, and J-Canceling).

We can worry about wavedashing and other stuff until we've tested out everything we can think of once we get the hitstun code fixed.

J cancel is so stupid, just go with perfected L. >_>

peachfvl · Nov 13, 2008

just leave l-cancel as it is or make it exactly the same as it was in melee.
i know l-cancel is the best choice everytime and that is why some of you want auto l-c but that is just stupid u never miss the cancel and it will be harder for everyone to punish a mistake, but that wont happen with manual l-c because no matter how good you are you can miss the button input and that will leave you opened for punishment unlike auto l-c

metaXzero · Nov 13, 2008

peachfvl said:
just leave l-cancel as it is or make it exactly the same as it was in melee.
i know l-cancel is the best choice everytime and that is why some of you want auto l-c but that is just stupid u never miss the cancel and it will be harder for everyone to punish a mistake, but that wont happen with manual l-c because no matter how good you are you can miss the button input and that will leave you opened for punishment unlike auto l-c

Most good players don't miss L-cancels enough for it to matter. And the characters who get punished for missed L-cancels are very laggy (like Link, Falcon, Ike, Ganny) and they are already not that great. It adds no depth. It just adds a pointless technical barrier that really only hurts slower characters when you miss .

And Marioblaze. Please don't flame new ideas.

kupo15 · Nov 13, 2008

peachfvl said:
just leave l-cancel as it is or make it exactly the same as it was in melee.
i know l-cancel is the best choice everytime and that is why some of you want auto l-c but that is just stupid u never miss the cancel and it will be harder for everyone to punish a mistake, but that wont happen with manual l-c because no matter how good you are you can miss the button input and that will leave you opened for punishment unlike auto l-c

One problem

Mk
Peach
Samus

They never have to l cancel thus never get punished

Marth
GaW
Sheik
Falco
ect

They can get by without l cancel but still have to cancel some moves

Ike
Ganon
Bowser
etc

Must l cancel all the time to combo and have a high risk of getting punished

So how is this ok? Where is the skill in these characters? L canceling wont change this fact. Auto l canceling, however, will

SGX · Nov 13, 2008

Marioblaze said:
I quit supporting Brawl+, too many ******** ideas going around for the standards of Brawl+ for example:

All kinds of weird **** and cancels like auto L, M, J and ****.

******** ideas about changing characters and gameplay speed.

It just that too much stupid **** is being put out there and accepted by lazy *** people who don't want to learn techs or make them so punishable that they aren't worth using.

Bottom line is I'm done supporting because it seems like this is turning into more of a scrubby Smash than competitive. I'll come back if this crap clears up but for now I'm done.

Then obviously Brawl+ is not turning out what you want it to be. Stop supporting it. Stop coming in here and complaining about every code that someone suggests.

I'm personally sticking around til we get a nice library of codes so I can turn MY Brawl into something actually enjoyable. =p

You do realize that even with the codes we have now, and all the minute adjustments available, there will never be this "perfect standard" that everyone will be happy with. Even once we have codes for everything, people will still be whining about what should be used and what shouldn't.

The less Brawl feels like Brawl to me, the happier I'll be. Is that what everyone else wants? no. Unless I'm in ur house, hackin ur brawl (lol) why should you care?

SketchHurricane · Nov 14, 2008

SGX said:
I'm in ur house, hackin ur brawl

A signature if I've ever seen one!

And yes, there's no room to bash the brawl+ project at this point. You can't say anything about the success of failure of this project until we reach a point where we've tested every reasonable way to alter the game.

kupo15 · Nov 14, 2008

Sketch, Your missing a "[" in your sig....

Brawl+ (Competitive Hacks): Codes, Videos, and Discussion (THREAD OUT OF DATE)

Smash Lord

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Smash Hero

Smash Lord

Smash Hero

Smash Lord

Smash Cadet

Smash Lord

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Smash Master

Smash Hero

Smash Hero

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Smash Journeyman

Smash Champion

Smash Lord

Smash Champion

Smash Champion

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Smash Champion

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

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Smash Champion

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