The Official Marth Video Critique Thread

hi again peoples. im surprised (and i guess proud) that i actually overcame my laziness and habits of procrastination and actually posted a vid of my marth online (yay ) lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kxDsM64zyE

Well what do you think of my marth (from this vid of course). Just things to note, please don't make judgements from me just from this vid... i'd like comments just to this vid specificly pl0x. My reason for this is because this is neither my or his (Sniper Fire's) best, i did a lot of stupid things and i mesesd up quite a lot of combos etc. but ya any comments for this vid would be nice

sorry for the quality, just use high quality and it should be fine. i dont have a vid capturing device so i just saved the replay then i recorded it with a camera (it was a pretty good camera tbh) afterward. the screen is very shaky and bad but that's only at first, since im adjusting my arms, so please be patient

^Firstly marth online is fail but....(I'm keeping this brief because I feel lazy)
-90% of the moves you use is fsmash....fsmash should be the move you use maybe 3% of the time >>
-You almost never punish how predictable CF is.
-Not enough dancing blades
-Never up+b'd out of shield...but I wouldn't even worry about that till you get the basics down.
-Spacing was bad...but it's wifi. But don't take offense but I get the feeling your spacing offline isn't that great either =\
-You're predictible....except when you're attacking a place that he couldn't be even if he tried to be. Sometimes you'll just throw out random attacks(mostly fsmash) in the directino he's not even facing when he could even run there if he tried. Don't just throw out attacks. If you're going to attack, attack with purpose.

Read the stickies. Watch some vids of good Marths. Get a feel for Marth's game. Improve your understanding of how marth is played first is my biggest advice.
-Tilts. I think I saw one utilt....that was it.

Yeah I noticed I pretty much spammed fsmash, i usually do use more dancing blades and Up B and tilts, but then again the match was like 2 min. im gonna try to post more vids up soon. thanks for your quick reply im always hungry for info

And is there a guide to spacing? Or any general tips you think? Or general rules... I know my spacing isn't very good at all but I don't really know what to think of to improve it. You know, psychological things.

Btw reading your post i got a bit confused. It was offline, not online

Ragnarok17 said:

Yeah I noticed I pretty much spammed fsmash, i usually do use more dancing blades and Up B and tilts, but then again the match was like 2 min. im gonna try to post more vids up soon. thanks for your quick reply im always hungry for info

And is there a guide to spacing? Or any general tips you think? Or general rules... I know my spacing isn't very good at all but I don't really know what to think of to improve it. You know, psychological things.

Btw reading your post i got a bit confused. It was offline, not online

Click to expand...

eh? I thought you said it was online =[. Well then ya, the most important thing I would say is(in order you should focus on)
1) Read stickies to get a general idea of how to play marth. Watch a few vids. An old thread I wrote might help as well: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197814
Note: don't take everything I say in there too literally. Read the comments too. Important stuff is said in those.

2) Practice. Spacing is just a matter of practice. There's no shortcuts to it. Learn the spacing for all of Marth's moves and practice playing a bit by hitting with the tip of the sword as much as possible. If you can hit them and they can't hit you, you've essentially won, right?

3) Read the stickies again and gather more information. After you learn to space, things will start to make a bit more sense and you'll pick up more information from the stickies.

Keep working at it.

K thx and ya i said "not on wifi" (on youtube).

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172592

lol i didnt find this thread til now! great marth guide, some useful things i didn't know. (especially the combo lists and some other stuff)

Well ya thx i g2g

Can you guys help me critique these videos. The marth wifi video thread is just talking about playing people online and not really critiquing. So i asked steel2nd and he said i can post it here. These vids are wifi but our connection was really good (green). There was hardly any lag so its pretty legit.
Katsu(Marth) vs. AWSUM(Link) 1
Katsu(Marth) vs. AWSUM(Link) 2

Thank you all in advance.

Sora:
Basically, you make the basic mistakes that most Marth's make. Fsmash spamming a bit too much. It's a kill move. You could have replaced most of the times you used it with dtilt. Also, try to use dancing blade as more of a punisher rather than just a move. The biggest advice I can give you is that you should try and really put thought into what you throw out. 80% of the time you just charge at your opponent, and 20% of the time you wait for them to approach you, but then you revert back to almost blindly throwing out attacks. You're not too bad but watching you it's easy to tell you don't have a plan. You generally know what to do and such but you're not really thinking about it. I suppose you didn't really have to since you win in the matches but try and play with a plan. Attack because you mean to do something, not because you can.
Anyways, someone else will give you an in-depth coverage.

ok thank you. Ill try to think of a plan while playing next time. That's probably what's holding my marth back and stuff.

lol I know you'll all love this
3xSwords' Marth (a bigger failure than Viets? O.O) Watch to find out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9DG-M2IdhI

Critique please

3x you should shield those aerial approaches a bit more. You kept passing up opportunities to shut down his approach with DS OoS or sheld grab if it wasn't a bair. Everybody loves spacing but if they're not spacing their aerials properly you gotta punish em with a grab or DS OoS ><

Sora fear pretty much covered it, i don't really like doing in depth critiques on wifi matches because there are too many factors to consider on why you may have made the mistake.

feardragon64 said:

3x you should shield those aerial approaches a bit more. You kept passing up opportunities to shut down his approach with DS OoS or sheld grab if it wasn't a bair. Everybody loves spacing but if they're not spacing their aerials properly you gotta punish em with a grab or DS OoS ><

Click to expand...

I'm not quite understanding what you are talking about. I don't recall many moments where a move besides the bair was hitting my shield for an extended amount of time.

JON (the G&W) was spacing properly for most of the match imo.

Edit: That better not be the only critique I'm getting >_>
Can I request an in-depth critique Steel?

3xSwords said:

lol I know you'll all love this
3xSwords' Marth (a bigger failure than Viets? O.O) Watch to find out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9DG-M2IdhI

Critique please

Click to expand...

:05, you start off the match by charging.. then retreating, the gw capitalizes with the turtle

:13, why did you roll here? you gave gw back center stage

:18, you let GW push you all the way to the ledge

:26, not sure why you threw out a dtilt here, but you probably could have gotten a shield or DS off once you saw him rushing at you with a turtle

:31, you land the dtilt but go for a grab? db pls

:34, it's not good to spot dodge vs gw. if you just shielded instead you could have up b'd out

:38, you have him on the edge now but instead you try to set up a defensive wall with a nair and dtilt.. which didn't work

:47, just threw out a fair with basically no chance of hitting, he punishes.

1:16, bad spacing is punished

1:32, probably could have just stood there with a shield and grabbed him instead of a "might work" fair. he was air dodging towards you with no options but to land

1:38, you were in a perfect spot to hit him with your sword but instead you try a dash grab which has crap range

1:45, you continue to move backwards once you get close to him and get hit with a fair, takes off a stock

2:21, whiff edge guarding attempt, if you fast falled you would have hit him

2:32, whiffs on the up smash.. hes at a real high percent.. and you don't fsmash for the kill?

2:38, his ledge get ups are getting predictable but you put yourself out of position and he was able to get on safely

2:50, why was i not seeing this pressure the whole match?

3:02, dsmash?

3:20, he was on the edge and you dashed to the other side of the stage.. for no reason


Your defensive style gave up too many opportunities to punish and also got you hit too much. Defensive is fine but don't ever let your opponent get out of a tough situation because you just dash/roll/jump away. He often hit you in between fairs, this is because your fair approach was pretty one-dimensional.. it was the same thing every time.

I only saw one or two times you just zoned GW all the way across the stage, which probably should have happened the majority of the match... he really can't do anything against it.

I don't mean poorly spacing so much as you could have repeatedly punished him with DS OoS on a lot of his aerial approaches when you were on the ground. For example:
(0:26), (0:34)<-you spot dodged though so no worries, (0:38), (0:48)<-but you end up doing it a second later =], etc.

But ya, it was usually a bair. I'm not saying replace DS OoS with all of these(that'd be a bit ridiculous), but the fact that you can punish those aerial approaches with it makes JON(or your opponent in general) have the think twice about their aerial approaches. When you have G&W thinking twice about aerial approaches, you're already starting to limit him since his bair is like his weapon of choice. Iono, food for thought. Nothing really in depth or anything, just what I see.

It's hardly a critique. I was expecting steel to give you real advice >>

Steel2nd said:

Your defensive style gave up too many opportunities to punish and also got you hit too much. Defensive is fine but don't ever let your opponent get out of a tough situation because you just dash/roll/jump away. He often hit you in between fairs, this is because your fair approach was pretty one-dimensional.. it was the same thing every time.

I only saw one or two times you just zoned GW all the way across the stage, which probably should have happened the majority of the match... he really can't do anything against it.

Click to expand...

Thanks Steel. Yeah... I still have to master the concept of stage control and advantageous situations. I mainly only concentrate on the space between my opponent and me, which explains my constant giving up of space >.<. I had some occasional finger screw ups in there but didn't really affect the critique.

lol I think I'm confusing my defensive style right now, because I'm trying to implement aggro into it when I really haven't mastered defense yet. Thanks again.

I'm the biggest stage control wh0re but Steel tells me I have to work a different corner now

junk you aren't even good

get out

and he tells me i'm not good

life's rough

JunkInTheTrunk said:

and he tells me i'm not good

life's rough

Click to expand...

Poor junk. Is big bad steel messin wit you? lolol jk

1st.

Your Marth has improved a lot, your spacing very well; my overall critique is probably weak here, there's only so much I can say. My biggest issues was move selection and some misguided rolling.

Start: Forward Air doesn't work against Ftilt.

0:20 - A silly roll. As he shielded you were in a much better position to apply pressure through a dtilt or anything like that.

0:48 - Downsmash kill percentage has been reached (untippered).

1:01 - A lot more appropriate to have shielded to dolphin slash.
1:12 - Easy uair opportunity missed. MK in a glide state is most definitely weak below him.
1:13 - There's other examples, but you could have used utilt, which comes out faster and would have killed about now. You're using upsmash for damage racking which is good, so use that up tilt to finish off people :D

1:18 - Rolling is SILLY.
1:24 - I'm pretty sure you were out of 'lag' due to the turn around, Shield m'boy... to dolphin slash...

1:51 - A dolphin slash would have finished him easily...

2:45 - Read 0:48.
3:00 - Something I think I noted elsewhere, but you were putting yourself in the air while being too close to an approaching MK. You can't outspace an MK while being cornered to the edge while in the air...

3:05 - Get up to DS? I don't get it but eh. Hope it isn't a habit.

3:20ish - Dtilt to jab? Ima give you a hug <3

4:00 - Forward Smash? I guess there's not much risk here.

Over all, an advantage to your game would be to put more attention into move selection. The Panda's MK only used ftilt at the start, then stopped, you're extremely good at mindgames . While downsmash is most definitely a lot more unsafe than forward smash, it will kill better... comes out faster eh eh.

Your nair use at the edge was commendable as well.

2nd

A surprisingly close game, like really surprising...
You played intimidated. Your 'game' seemed completely different to whilst vsing Panda's MK. While I'm aware Snake can punish you where I suggested retreating fairs, it's harder, considering it's only the second strike that gets to you (i.e. shield it). I think you could afford to slow down while vsing his Snake so as to not make so many 'mistakes', or hell, do yourself a favour and get the C stick REMOVED from your controller.

0:00 - A rush towards Snake while he's got the 2 frame jab... ugh. oh and a 4 frame ftilt.

0:07 - You went behind him while doing a fair. You did this MANY MANY times in this match. Snake's ftilt outranges your fair and he can safely turn around if you go behind him. In this case, you should be RETREATING fairs...

0:19 - Retreating fair required.

0:40 - You were completely baited into this, you're over 90%? God **** don't get above the guy.

1:09 - A roll. Panda completely baited you into this. You need to work on Snake tendancies to avoid predictability related punishment. Rolls are a bad start.

1:42 - I believe a retreating fair could have avoided this fsmash kill from Snake.

2:12 - Move selection yet again. When you've already hit with maybe 2 fsmashes within your current 10-set (what the hell's the name of this again?), and the first one was shielded, you were at a good distance to just dtilt... More pressure, MORE PRESSURE.

2:24 - SQUEEK; 2:26 - SQUEEK; 2:28 - SQUEEK; 2:30 - SQUEEK ALSO WHAT THE **** MAN FORWARD SMASH?; 2:33 - SQUEEK
2:35 - BOOM!

3:08 - I'll Press a stick of some sort laterally towards you if you KEEP THIS UP UGHHH.

3:18 - SQUEEK? The mouse outdid the Lion with a roaring contest?

3rd

Must say chap, this was an excellent show of defiance. The initial intimidation that was easy to see from the second match evaporated, you played carefully and pressured well. Your use of fair was a lot safer; and your move selection was mostly appropriate (I'll get the Snake kill percents at some point; I promise) for getting that ever so far away kill percentage. The lack of fsmash spamming did soooooooo much, can't you seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee? SEEEEEEEEEe. Also, unlike your first two matches, you brought in the grab game here. Over all a much better played Marth than I've most likely ever seen from you and from most in general. People could LEARN THINGS watching your Marth here, really.

Start - Walk towards the middle, joy. I remember when walking was top tier; obviously you remembered too.

0:12 - I think you were fine to approach here, at least a dtilt. Dtilt should have knocked him off the edge at such a way he would most likely of been suspectable to a grab/gimp situation.

0:34 - Early jitters, I think Panda is fully aware of your 'mix up tricks' of going behind him; he seems to punish you every time you attempt it.

0:40 - OH GOD ****, IT IS A HABIT! HAVE YOU CHANGED YOUR C STICK TO 'B' stick? God help us all. GOD HELP US ALL.

0:52 - An easy to avoid shield grab there, you're Marth god ****it, you're not allowed to get shield grabbed.
0:56 - Counter??? WHERE'S THE GOD **** FSMASH?

1:17 - Pretty cool in my opinion, but you could have survived if you had gotten up from the ledge. Or maybe *shock n horror, that would have been UBER COOL* a STAGE TECH? YES, STAGE TECH PRACTICE GO GO GO.

1:31 - He rolled in a silly fashion. I find that while all your roll tactics are predicted and punished by Panda; his sparing use of it has you 'shocked' everytime. Double fair when a roll was noticable was what made this silly from your side of things.

1:55 - SQUEEK. He's been practicing this, hasn't he?

2:45 - Snake applying shield pressure up close, which he is pretty good at doing. I think this is one of those times a roll backwards FOR SAFETY would have been your best bet.
2:51 - Continued up close shield pressure from Snake got you wapowned.
2:54 - NO DI'N UP !? WHERES THE DEFIANCE!

3:22 - A slip up of spacing. In tight quarters like this, just like in the MK match, you seem to jump... or dolphin slash (lulz). Getting away from the 'backing in the corner' is your priority. Also you were baited to go behind him. Edge grab would have been safer.

3:31 - DANGER. FSMASH. Then you roll, you're lucky you didn't get absoloutely cracked in the head in either situation.

3:37 - Attention to detail, twice you've been hit with the C4 in ways that could have been evaded/dodged.
3:39 - A going behind 'thing' again. You also STUPIDLY WENT DIRECTLY ABOVE HIM? BY GOD **** YOU WERE ASKING TO GET uTILT'D. At this point you should have lost.

4:18 - Lucky finish.

Third match since I enjoyed watching this one:

(0:04) That announcer's voice is sexy
(0:11) mindgameslol
(0:19) Personally I would have racked up as much damage with jabs as possible and grab released so both of you would get hit by the nade and you'd get a free fair probably. But no worries =]
(0:31) SHDoubleFair mispaced =\
(0:40) Try not to use DS OoS unless the ledge get up attack. I find it too risky otherwise since it can easily be avoided with a shield or air dodge(or both as panda did)
(1:04) I think that every time panda has tried to get up from the ledge he's second jump air dodged back on. Just a pattern I noticed which led to the whiffed fsmash
(1:11) I also notice you dair for recovery. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't fair better for recovery since it comes out faster?
(1:17) lawl
(1:51) That was amazing
(2:04) Perfect time to DS OoS but you get it off in like 2 seconds
(2:21) Probably could have DS'd while he was blowing up the mine and gotten the kill ><
(2:39) Another time for DS OoS
(2:45) See 2:39
(2:51) See 2:39 and darn broken shield =\
(2:58-3:14) You being awesome and getting panda up about 80% in exchange for 4%. Good example of how to play him.
(3:24) I find that one of snake's traps on someone recovering above the stage is what he did there. Try to avoid the "air dodge and land behind him" recovery because you get your *** ftilted ><
(3:35) Dair'ing again? o.o?
(4:02) I think you could have taken advantage of the fact that he had to shield the nade with a grab =\
(4:16) Awesome ending.

Spacing is awesome. I think there were a few times you could have used DS OoS when you were being pressured by ftilt though. Other than that and a few general mistakes that are pretty much expected in a match, awesome match. I thoroughly enjoyed it =].

Ankoku,

• You're using predictable attacks. As in, you'll do the attack that will hit them at the most obvious point. All Panda has to do is dodge it. An example would be if they're falling down you u-smash.

Sometimes this works, but you will be much more successful going to the side and attacking from that point sometimes, delaying the timing of your attack, and going for the grab once in a while.

Opponents are conditioned to just shield against Marth because his grab is bad and he has single hit attacks. You punish this with well spaced shield pressure or just with a grab.

• Panda is even more predictable than you. Panda has very little stage control with Snake which is his greatest strength. He shouldn't have been using the remote controlled missile without very good projectile coverage. Basically you had many opportunities to **** snake hard but you took the more passive option.

You want to make the snake feel like he has no control (which Panda doesn't really anyway, but against a snake that knows how to drop nades and boost smash/u-smash properly) which requires aggressive play.

Basically right now you're testing each others frame data. Does my x attack outrange his y? Does my airdodge outlast his z?

Try to avoid these situations and have the mindset of "Okay if I jump up to meet him he is going to expect the u-air and he'll airdodge, so I'll shff ad (to avoid his attack if he chooses to do that instead) and hit him with whatever I want"

• Recognize the situation. You liked to set it to neutral when you were in the advantageous position by rolling >< running is just faster and you rarily dodge something with the roll that you couldn't have with the run because most people roll to reset situations.

I beat the same people every time just by predicting their roll backwards because its slow and easy to react to.

You're better at escaping bad situations now though, and your spacing is better.

Wow why was that so long for like 3 ideas XD

JunkInTheTrunk said:

and he tells me i'm not good

life's rough

Click to expand...

It's even rougher when you know your Marth is not good.

Go back to purple Ankoku. =/

Ankoku, only have 2 questions. 1) why no u-throw? and 2) why did you use nair instead of uair while you had snake in a juggle trap?. While move differentiation is something im all for, i dont think it could hurt to spam uair when you can easily land them during juggles. For safety, you should be at sakes side ( i think front is relatively safer) and jump at him and tipper your uair when you juggle.

bump for usefulness

I like how ankoku didnt answer my question >.>

Nice what you did in the first page
Haven't seen it awhile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHmQyiUNOc0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEazJ_Vcav8

these are both matches against dedede. i would like both types of critique please.

one problem i know i have is being too aggressive and getting grabbed too often.

ill get to both of you later

DrPP:

:05, rough start.. if you planned on grabbing him you should have at least done a SC grab

:07, you jumped in the air and landed way too close to him, you are uncomfortable and roll away, he ftilts you

:11, should have been a DB

:13, unsafe approach, looks like you disregarded spacing here

:26, it was unsafe to come back on the stage like that anyway, should have just gone low. snake was ready for that

:39, up throw instead.

1:05, i would have just done a regular get up, no way he could have punished it. instead you put yourself in a vulnerable position and it costs you your first stock

1:17, could have made a better attempt to juggle than that

2:01, fairing his shield with the middle of your blade gets you punished

2:04, as soon as you see the grenade you try to jump away from it and put yourself in a bad spot once again, he hits you. remember its not going to explode right away, you have time

2:49, often times as soon as you land a fair you try to just keep moving forward on him to string more fairs. this isn't melee

3:47, he shields your nair but you keep moving forward? puts you in a bad spot, you frantically up b and get fsmashed for the match


There isn't too much I can say. Don't think I saw enough juggle trap execution. You're at the stage of your game where you should be able to critique yourself, mine won't do you much good anymore. Go into each of your vids and when you get hit ask yourself what would have been the better option. How could have you stayed more safe? How could have you put your opponent into a trap in this situation?

Dr.PeePee wtf@ your Marth in that vid.

Blatant disregard for your safety.

You effin did a full ledge hop into double jump while Snake was standing there and landed behind his shield so when you up b lagged he had years to a$$**** you.

No wonder this Snake player was ****** the balls off of you. How the hell did you beat this guy in tourney?

You keep playing like that and expect the a$$ poundings to keep coming.

That was the not-as nice summary of your Marth that I tried to touch on.

Dude, you play Ali at like every tourney you go to, right? How are you uncomfortable in this if you've played the guy 25-50 times???? Lol.

Uncomfortable or not, obvious disregard of safety was still there.

ie, not playing smart

But yeah...just....don't be so reckless and don't be so eager to get in those fairs. In your matches I see you constantly throw caution to the wind and you get messed up because of it.

Choose your moments.