[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

Darky Dee · Nov 22, 2008

What does it matter? He stated that for Brawl, not for future installments even though it's very unlikely that we'd ever see anime characters in there. There is a somewhat of a reasonable chance that iconic characters like Mickey or Yoda might be able to make the cut.

C.Olimar788 · Nov 22, 2008

Maybe something like that might happen if someone other than Sakurai got Smash, but as it is Sakurai's opinions about that probably stand for the entire Smash Bros. series. And a new director might respect Sakurai enough to not change the idea of it being video game characters only.

And how can you say that it's unlikely we'll see anime characters but there's "somewhat of a reasonable chance" of Mickey or Yoda? Remember that Smash is being made in Japan...

Darky Dee · Nov 23, 2008

The most significant anime character doesn't compare to Yoda or Mickey, both are cultural phenomena and pop culture icons not just in the U.S. but around the world. How often do we see Naurto, Dragon Ball, or Sailor Moon in major cross-over titles and make guest appearances?

I'm just comparing them two to other characters brought up in this thread. Some like Shadow Queen-- whom I haven't heard of until princesspeachlurver13 keeps bringing her up "as a Peach transformation". I know their chances aren't up there, but Shadow Queen? Yoda inb4 Shadow Queen, Paula, Takamaru, Tin Star, Stafy, Duster, Birdio, Toad, Shy Guy, and so fourth.

Now that I seriously consider that, Yoda would be bad-*** if he were on there. Mickey might be a little stretch. I can't see Mickey having a nice arsenal without having it derived from Kingdom Hearts, and he'd be like a double-third party in that case since they'd need Square's permission for the move set properties. But Yoda? ZOMGGGGG.

Discolicious · Nov 23, 2008

melee 2.0 but with some sick characters like uhhh inu yasha or master chief or goku(hes a little strong theoretically). Make a 4 person home run contest available so i can see some crazy ****. Find a new director.

cba · Nov 23, 2008

I really doubt about yoda making the cut. he'll be like MK.
i think Sailor Moon would make it.

Boo Mansion · Nov 23, 2008

I really think it should stay video game characters only. Anything outside of that is a horrible clash. Mario vs. Goku? Wtf?

If you want to play a game like that with horribly unfitting characters, check out Mugen. >.>

Red Arremer · Nov 23, 2008

Boo Mansion said:
Marth appeared only in two that were made years ago, yet he made it into Brawl.

2 facts for you:
a.) Marth was the first Fire Emblem protagonist EVER. Hence he has more importance than any other lord.
b.) Fire Emblem 1 will recieve a remake for the DS soon-ish.

C.Olimar788 said:
I doubt that K. Rool AND Dixie will make it into the next Smash, mostly since the DK series isn't a big one

So you mean that the 4th best selling franchise after Mario, Pokémon and The Legend of Zelda is "not a big one"? Wow.

Frown · Nov 23, 2008

Spadefox said:
So you mean that the 4th best selling franchise after Mario, Pokémon and The Legend of Zelda is "not a big one"? Wow.

It is?

*checks Google*

You're right!

Wow, K.Rool really needs a spot in SSB.

Jimnymebob · Nov 23, 2008

Discolicious said:
melee 2.0 but with some sick characters like uhhh inu yasha or master chief or goku(hes a little strong theoretically). Make a 4 person home run contest available so i can see some crazy ****. Find a new director.

No...Just No.
Inuyasha VS Master Chief VS Goku on a Nintendo game.
If that ever happened I wouldn't buy the game, as it would be pointless to make, it'd take ages to get permission to use all the characters, and Nintendo would have to run out of all characters before this happened, which I doubt will happen. I'd rather have the President from Olimar before Goku.

Red Arremer · Nov 23, 2008

Frown said:
It is?

*checks Google*

You're right!

Wow, K.Rool really needs a spot in SSB.

Yes it is. I was pretty surprised by it, myself. Metroid is I think around rank 7 or so.

Edit:
@Jimnymebob:
I agree, I want Smash, not MUGEN.

SmashBrosMike · Nov 23, 2008

Frown said:
It is?

*checks Google*

You're right!

Wow, K.Rool really needs a spot in SSB.

Agreed dude!!!

Pieman0920 · Nov 23, 2008

Is the DK series really still selling? I wouldn't really know, since I don't pay attention to sales charts, but I would have thought the bulk of its sales would have been back in the day when Rare was messing around with the series. Also, I'd assume the original Donkey Kong migh have contributed its sales to whatever number's being made here, and in that case, Mario was the main character.

Also, I'd very much doubt that K.Rool gets the spot, even if there is a 3rd DK rep. He's really not that important overall, and his role in the series has never really evovled from where it started. (In DKC he was a evil crocodile who for some reason stole bananas and like to play dress up, and in the here and now, that's still what he is) There's also the little tidbit that Dixie Kong was intended to be the third character in the DK series. (Though not a full character most people speculate, since she was some how tied to Diddy. Odds are though that they worked in a fashion simmilar to how they worked in the games, in which one would follow the other, and using down B would have switched them. Would explain why Diddy's current down B looks so awkward. If this speculation is true though, she likely had a entire moveset planned out for her, which is a plus)

BKupa666 · Nov 23, 2008

Mr. Potato Head

Mr. Potato Head is a moody Playskool doll, and the most prominent supporting character in the series. He is outspoken and critical among the toys, and is constantly smacked about, losing his various parts in the process. Speaking of these parts, Mr. Potato Head has full control of them, even when separated from his potato body. He stores his extra parts in a compartment where his ass should be.

Statistics

Movement: 7
Aerial Movement: 6
Fall Speed: 6
Jumps: 5
Size: 5
Traction: 5
Weight: 5
Power: 3

Other than power, Potato Head's stats all remain in the realm of average to above average, lending him options for very basic, all-around gameplay in matches. However, none of his statistics are highly relevant to intricacies of his playstyle. Instead, placing and spacing are the vital factors of Potato Head's gameplay. Mr. Potato Head can extract spare parts and place them around the stage; whenever Potato Head uses an attack featuring a body part, the corresponding spare part will perform the same attack, giving Potato Head a variety of strategies to incorporate into his matches.

Specials

Neutral Special - "Mr. Angry Eyes"
Potato Head pulls a pair of shoes out of his compartment, with minimal lag. He can proceed with the shoes in two ways. He can simply throw them as an item; the shoes remain on the ground until Potato Head is KOed, or thrown away. They become an item once they are dropped, identical to Wario's broken bike. More importantly, if Potato Head ever uses ones of his kicking attacks, the shoes immediately copy the attack, gaining identical hitboxes to the ones on Potato Head's body. Potato Head can move these (and other) parts around for a unique ranged playstyle. Of note, if a character picks up a shoe to toss away, use a kicking move, and they'll drop the shoe as they're hit by the attack. Place the shoes strategically to build damage with throughout the match.

Potato Head can also press B while holding shoes to place them over his eyes, becoming 'Mr. Angry Eyes'. This takes approximately .2 second, after which Potato Head starts charging forward at Fox's dash speed. Characters who come into contact with Potato Head take 12-13% and horizontal knockback that KOs around 180%. If you shield or try to turn around, Potato Head stops (with .45 second lag, in the latter case), his spare shoes falling off of his eyes. Use this function of the move to push characters away from Potato Head (since it won't KO until late), or to recover horizontally. Make sure not to dash off the stage; Potato Head won't stop automatically due to not being able to see.

Side Special - Lend Me a Hand!
Potato Head takes a spare arm out of his compartment, leans back slightly, before throwing it horizontally forward two Bowsers. It takes slightly longer than throwing a Pikmin to toss a spare arm. Should a character get hit by an arm, they'll take 8-9% and knockback that KOs at 195%. Arms can be picked up and re-thrown for the same damage and knockback. Two arms may be present onstage at a time; they last until Potato Head is KOed.

When lying around, arms act similarly to shoes in that if Potato Head uses any attack that makes use of his arms/hands, the spare part will mimic the attack, wherever it is. Although arms generally simply copy Potato Head's attacks like spare shoes, they can also contribute to his jointed attacks by acting with a mind of their own when certain attacks are used. Also like spare shoes, arms can attack characters trying to throw them away. An arm can also grab a character that picks one up, although it cannot throw its victim on its own; the arm will merely stun the foe and release itself, unless Potato Head grabs the character away to throw them himself.

Down Special - Daaaaadddddy!
Potato Head quickly opens his compartment, freeing his three adopted sons, the green Aliens, each around the size of Squirtle. They travel in a cluster at Mario's dash over to Potato Head's nearest body part, and carry it back to him. If an obstacle taller than two Ganondorf stands in their way, the Aliens will return to Potato Head's compartment. They'll do this if no part is onstage as well. The Aliens deal 3% and a bit of stun, allowing them to trap foes and carry them forward like Piplup.

Potato Head has two uses for his adopted sons. Most obviously, he can summon them to retrieve a body part for him, allowing him to reposition it without having to pick it up himself. In addition, he can trap characters with the Aliens' multiple hits as they walk to a body part, then use an attack involving the part to smack the character away while they're stuck. Potato Head can even use a part's attack while the Aliens are carrying it to him, for them to drop it wherever they were when the attack was initiated. Speaking of which, if the Aliens are attacked, they'll retreat back to Potato Head.

Up Special - The Claw
Potato Head pulls a single Alien out of his compartment; the Alien in turn pulls out the claw and casts it forward, proclaiming, "The claaaaaw!" in the process. This tether recovery reaches out as far as five Pikmin. If a character hits the claw, they take 9% and spiking knockback; unlike other tethers, the claw can do more than stage spike. Potato Head cannot use this tether if the Aliens are already out onstage, but since it's not really the smartest idea to summon them while recovering, this shouldn't be a huge problem. This tether is no faster or slower than existing Brawl tethers, although it is significantly more "fun" to watch.

Standards

Basic Combo - Slap
Potato Head...wait for it...slaps a short distance in front of him. So revolutionary, yes? He has very little lag on this jab (only slightly more than a jab with a fan item); it deals 3-4% and a low set knockback. There is slight stun to the move, although it's knockback is usually enough to prevent Potato Head from spamming the jab against a wall.

He can, however, jab a character against a spare arm, for double the damage. The additional stun of the spare arm prevents the victim from being launched away, allowing for efficient damage-building if you space correctly. If you jab after you've thrown an arm offstage, you can hit recovering foes and push them further from safety, increasing their odds of being gimped.

Forward Tilt - Bowler Toss
With .2 second startup lag, Potato Head tosses his hat forward half of Battlefield like a frisbee. The hat travels at Falcon's dash before returning to its owner, who cannot move until it does so, and has minimal ending lag. Should the hat hit a character, they'll take 6%, with a fifty-percent chance of tripping. You can try to keep a character in your range by stopping them with your hat when they try to flee.

If Potato Head tosses his hat into a spare arm, the arm will catch the hat and instantly toss it back at a slightly faster speed, rather than simply copying the throw. The hat deals a buffed 8% when thrown by a spare arm. Unless you're looking for a quick two-hit combo by tossing it to an arm at close-range, therefore causing it to be thrown back to Potato Head early, this effect is difficult to find use for.

However, if Potato Head positions himself between two spare arms on the same level, tosses his hat, then gets out of the way, the arms will throw the hat back and forth to each other. Considering characters hit by the hat can fall victim to tripping, trapping them in this little catch zone can rack damage up rather quickly. This zone can be as large as Potato Head wants it to be (as long as both arms are on level ground), although you'll clearly want it to be smaller, so your opponent has less time to GTFO. Potato Head can essentially cut off a whole area of the stage by making this little zone. He pulls out a spare hat to use for F-Tilt when a catch zone is active.

Down Tilt - Jacks
Potato Head places a pile of spiky jacks over the area of a mine, before bouncing a Deku Nut-sized rubber ball his height into the air. He starts this laglessly, but cannot move until the ball hits the ground, upon which he stows it back in his compartment (takes about .5 second). Foes who hit the ball take 3% and a low set knockback. The jacks stay onstage for thirty seconds, dealing 10% and vertical set knockback to characters who touch them. Two sets of jacks may be present at a time.

Potato Head cannot rely on this minor jack trap in matches, so what is its purpose? Well, if Potato Head performs this move within a Stage Builder block of a spare arm, the arm will grab onto all the jacks while the ball is in the air. The arm holds onto these jacks for the thirty seconds they would be out on stage; during this time, characters other than Potato Head who attempt to pick up the arm for whatever reason, take 10% and immediately drop it. If Potato Head doesn't want characters moving around the arms he so carefully positioned onstage, he can give them jacks to keep them where he wants them. As an added bonus, arms carrying jacks deal 10% extra in their attacks during this time frame.

Potato Head can also perform this attack while standing near a spare shoe; he places the jacks inside the shoes rather than on the ground, giving them the same effect as the arms (only Potato Head can move them, plus the damage buff).

Up Tilt - Arm Pinwheel
Potato Head tosses an arm out of its socket up a Ganondorf, spinning before it falls back to him. There is .2 second lag on both ends of this move. Potato Head's arm deals three light hits of 3%, the last one dealing knockback that KOs around 155%.

Any spare arms Potato Head has out will fly up a Ganondorf whenever this attack is initiated. Although you can mess up a short-hopping character from a range with this move, a more effective use may be for positioning. If a spare arm is on a platform and Potato Head wishes to move it to a platform above its current resting point (from the main stage to the moving platform on Smashville, for example), use this move for the arm to launch itself up there. The higher platform can't be higher than a Ganondorf away from the lower one, of course.

Dash Attack - Potato Roll
Potato Head leaps forward slightly, turning over to roll forward horizontally. This roll continues until Potato Head hits a character or obstacle, or reaches an edge; you can cancel the roll early by shielding. Potato Head rolls at a speed of two Battlefield platforms per second. Hit him, and you'll take 12% and horizontal knockback that KOs around 175%. If Potato Head rolls over any spare parts onstage, they'll be automatically picked up for use (he throws the parts in the order they were picked up).

If Potato Head is attacked while rolling, he takes all the damage of the attack, but no knockback; instead, he is sent rolling back in the opposite direction at a faster speed. This speed depends on the strength of the attack in question; if Mario jabs a rolling Potato Head, the speed increase is barely noticeable. If Bowser F-Smashes a rolling Potato Head, however, he'll be sent offstage in a flash (characters' attacks can send you rolling off the edge). The damage Potato Head deals when rolling from an attack is significantly higher than usual, ranging from 14% to 26%, while the KO percentage is significantly lower, both depending on the attack strength. Let the team strategies commence!

Smashes

Forward Smash - Sliding Kick
Potato Head kicks horizontally with both shoes, pushing himself forward slightly with both hands as he does so. The result is a close-ranged move that pushes Potato Head forward nearly a Battlefield platform. The lag on the move is comparable to Kirby's F-Smash. Characters kicked by Potato Head take 9-15%, and knockback that KOs around 170%. Potato Head can angle his kick up or down slightly to knock characters at a different angle.

Now, if Potato Head has a pair of shoes onstage, they'll pick themselves up and kick horizontally forward as well, mirroring Potato Head's attack. However, the shoes travel twice as far as Potato Head, due to not being restrained by their master. Their damage and knockback remain the same, unless you fill them with jacks, upon which they deal an extra 10%. Using this Smash with a pair of shoes in front of you can be highly beneficial; not only does the extra hitbox increase the odds of landing the hit, the shoes provide Potato Head with a moving wall of defense, in case a projectile is fired his way to interrupt him.

Up Smash - Stomp Rocket
Potato Head quickly pulls out a Stomp Rocket; this toy consists of a jumping pad, connected to a toy rocket launcher. When one jumps on the pad, the air inside is forced into the rocket launcher, propelling the rocket upwards. Rather than using a rocket, Potato Head himself sits on the rocket launcher, stomping one foot down onto the jumping pad to launch himself skyward, one to two Ganondorfs high. The shoe he used to stomp comes off in the process; he puts it back on as he stows the Stomp Rocket in his compartment, giving him .35 second ending lag.

Potato Head deals 11-16% and knockback that KOs around 165%. If he launches himself up through a drop-through platform, he'll land early; the Stomp Rocket will vanish, as a new shoe appears in its socket. Potato Head can score convenient vertical KOs with this Smash. If he uses it next to a spare part, however, he'll connect the pad's cord to the part and stomp. This inflates the part slightly, causing it to fall at one-third its normal fall speed.

Keep in mind this does not affect the speed at which the part is thrown, merely the fall speed. Because of this, the part can be thrown much further than usual, as it will take longer to fall to the ground after losing its speed. The primary use of this is for offstage madness. Toss an inflated arm offstage at a recovering opponent, before using multiple jabs or a grab to hold them from the edge. For even more fun, toss off a pair of inflated shoes, before using multiple D-Smashes or an F-Smash for chaos. Did I mention the potential for throwing an inflated part, then using multiple aerials for a wall-of-pain...without Potato Head having to even go anywhere?

Down Smash - Russian Dance
Potato Head speedily crosses his arms, kicking out one foot at a time rapidly; he performs four kicks before exiting the pose with .25 second lag. Each kick reaches out a short distance, dealing 4% and a bit of hitstun. The fourth kick can KO around 175%. Potato Head can move slowly forward or back while dancing; although the dancing only lasts about .5 second, moving into a foe while dancing them will more likely than not result in them being hit by the following kicks.

If a spare pair of shoes are present on the stage, they copy their owner in performing this comical little dance. However, spare dancing shoes cannot KO on the final kick. Therefore, they can be used for a quick four-hit combo. Leaving them around onstage and waiting for them to fill this purpose sounds rather pointless, right? Potato Head can toss a pair of shoes at a recovering character, perform several D-Smashes to hold them offstage and build damage, before performing an F-Smash to finish them off the side. This works especially well if you've pumped up the shoes with U-Smash, therefore allowing them to stay up long enough to hit their victim.

Aerials

Neutral Air - Flutter
Potato Head flaps his hands stupidly, looking as if he's trying to fly. There is minimal lag on both ends of the move; Potato Head flaps four times in a row, taking about half a second to do so. Potato Head's flapping halts his fall for its duration, allowing him to stay in the air slightly longer. He can DI slightly during this time, allowing him to use multiple N-Airs to get closer to the stage before tethering with Up Special (although the flapping has low enough priority to remain a non-threat to characters going for the gimp).

Each flap deals 4% and a bit of stun, with the last one having a bit of set knockback to it. Potato Head can jump into foes using this move multiple times at low damage levels, comboing them in the same vein as Wario's D-Air. Spare parts can only perform aerials when they're off the ground; in this case, an arm's flapping keeps it from falling during its duration. An inflated arm using N-Air can stay up for quite some time; flapping a thrown arm turns it into a comboing projectile, whether it's inflated or not.

Forward Air - Chop
Potato Head performs a motion very similar to Luigi's F-Air, having slightly more range, but less knockback. He performs this attack at approximately the same speed as Luigi, dealing 5-6%. He can toss an arm at characters and perform this move to knock them back. This works particularly well after trapping them in the rapid hits of a N-Air or multiple jabs.

Back Air - Compartment Spill
Because attacking backward with an arm thrown forward is rather useless, Potato Head's B-Air is exclusive to him. Potato Head's compartment opens, spilling out various junk, such as cheese puffs and Legos, in a Kirby-sized cluster. There is .3 second starting lag, but as soon as the junk is out, Potato Head is free to move.

His 'entrails' fall a Ganondorf before vanishing, dealing up to 11% to characters, but no knockback. Potato Head can drop this junk on a character, then fast-fall and perform his D-Air while his opponent is trapped in these multiple hits. If you haven't picked up by now, Potato Head is supposed to be fairly dangerous at close range. This is one of several reasons why.

Up Air - Bowler Launch
Potato Head tosses his hat a Ganondorf and a half into the air, it turning vertical for the move, before catching it on his head horizontally after about half a second. He has .2 second lag on both ends of the move, and if he lands early, he'll stumble as he catches his hat, easy to punish. Characters who hit the hat take 8% and vertical knockback that KOs around 190%. A fairly standard juggling move at moderate damage levels.

Remember how you can set up catch zones with two spare arms and an F-Tilt? Well, if Potato Head uses an U-Air while a catch zone is active, the next arm to catch the hat will begin throwing it upwards twice as high as this U-Air (three Ganondorfs to be precise). This takes about a second, and is the perfect way to stop characters from fleeing your catch zone. The hat also deals some additional damage and knockback should a character attempt to do so.

Down Air - Frustration
Potato Head stomps twice with little lag, once to stun his victim and again to spike them with moderate knockback. Each hit deals 5%; if your second stomp hits a standing character, they'll die off the top around 185%. Potato Head can spike a foe down onstage, then jump up again and D-Air them as they get up for a close-range combo. If he throws spare shoes offstage, he can also spike characters from a range.

Grab and Throws

Grab - Swipe
Potato Head leans forward and reaches out with one hand as he dashes forward, looking similar to Wario, albeit a bit faster. When spare arms grab, they cannot throw, but merely stun their victim under they mash away, or Potato Head himself grabs them for himself. This allows a part to hold a character down for their master, free it from a carrier, or grab an offstage character and fall for a suicide KO.

Pummel - Conk
Potato Head performs a quick karate chop on his victim's head, dealing 1% per pummel. If he performs three or more pummels on his victim, they'll trip if they break free from the grab (not applicable if you throw them), becoming dizzy from all those head-shots. Now is the perfect time to either trap them with your Aliens at close range, or smack them with a jab before regrabbing them.

Forward Throw - Triple Jab
Potato Head jabs a finger into his victim three times rapidly, a bit like Master Hand. Each jab deals 3%, and pushes the foe forward half a Stage Builder block. Potato Head walks forward as he jabs, moving with his victim to ensure they don't escape prematurely. The final jab deals horizontal knockback that KOs around 185%. Potato Head can push a victim back with this to begin using ranged tactics against them, or simply to get them out of his face.

Back Throw - Alien Assistance
Potato Head tosses his victim carelessly over his shoulder, during which an Alien pokes its head from his compartment and pegs the victim with a bouncy ball as soon as they stand up. This deals 5% and gives them some hitstun. Potato Head can either regrab his victim or push them away for reasons of his own. He can't use this while the Aliens are onstage, but because you most likely won't be grabbing and throwing while they're out, this is not crippling at all for Potato Head. The ball begins to push victims back with its stun after they have a bit of damage, preventing an infinite.

Down Throw - Bowling
Potato Head performs a bowling motion to throw his opponent forward, sending them rolling in a similar fashion to his dash attack. The character takes 6%, and deals double that to any character they hit. The rolling character can be hit to roll them in the opposite direction, much like Potato Head himself.

Difference is, here, Potato Head has no need to worry about taking damage from opponents attacking the jointed hitbox of his body, while still building the same damage. He can also space using this throw, as well as use the rolling victim as a meatshield. In desperate situations, he can even roll the victim off the edge to try and gimp them.

Up Throw - Drop Kick
Potato Head drop kicks his victim straight up, dealing 7% and set knockback. If the victim does not DI away, Potato Head can easily follow up with an U-Smash to launch them. This throw essentially forces his victim to either give Potato Head some breathing room or take a Smash in the arse.

Final Smash

Final Smash - Alien Invasion
Potato Head whistles, for a toy spaceship to land in the background, filled with Aliens, who swarm out of the ship and absolutely cover every platform onstage. Characters on the ground take constant damage, and are pushed away from Potato Head. Potato Head can press Down Special during this time for the Aliens to start moving toward him rather than away, pushing foes with them; he essentially has his foe constantly trapped, as well as control over where they go.

The Aliens remain onstage for a hefty fifteen seconds, so even if you take to the air, you'll be caught by them eventually. Potato Head and any parts he places are not moved by the Aliens. Because Aliens don't push characters offstage, Potato Head will have to hit them off and finish them himself, although with the massive buff the Aliens provide, this isn't exactly a chore.

Playstyle

Without question, Potato Head has quite a few tools with which to build damage at close range. Coming to mind immediately is his jab, as well as multi-hit aerial game. Potato Head can also grab a character and pummel them or use B-Throw, then regrab for extra damage. F-Tilt can keep characters in your range by halting them as they try to flee, while Dash Attack forces them to stop fleeing and counter-attack (although this damages you, making it less preferable than the former).

Among his damaging attacks, Potato Head also has plenty of spacing moves. Neutral Special, Smashes, and throws are all good options to get some breathing room in matches. Potato Head will end up needing said breathing room for two reasons: set-up and KOing. Setting out parts onstage while building damage will help you out immensely, as you have newfound options such as jabbing a character against a spare arm and sending Aliens at a part, stunning foes and pushing them around in the process. Placing a part involves both spacing, to ensure you aren't punished while tossing out a part, and placing, to ensure that your placement is beneficial to building damage (and to a lesser extent, to ensure your opponents don't toss away your parts, although this can be countered...read on).

A secondary form of set-up involves you placing jacks in spare parts, or pumping them up with your Stomp Rocket. These options require some spacing to pull off; fortunately, Potato Head will most likely already be attempting to do so in the situations in which these buffs help him. Jacks are essentially a damage-building tool and safety precaution in one; imagine jabbing with a part that deals an extra 10% with each hit (or whenever a character tries to pick one up) and you get the picture. Jacks aren't vital in building damage; however, against characters who take more damage to KO, this is an ace in Potato Head's hole.

As for KOing, you'll notice Potato Head's regular attacks don't KO until unnecessarily high damage levels. Upon a first play-test, Potato Head might seem to be an above-average character in all aspects, until you realize how difficult it is to KO traditionally with him (you may also reconsider this shallow assumption when you discover his poor priority coupled with close-range melee attacks that extend his hurtbox). His attacks with knockback are amazing at pushing characters back to give him room to play, but are fairly useless for KOing. Instead, Potato Head must gimp characters with his spare parts. When he's built enough damage to get a victim offstage with one of his spacers, he can toss a part at his opponent, and follow up in several different ways.

If he wishes to simply KO his victim off the side blast zone, he'll want to toss spare shoes at them. Shoes can perform Smashes to do so, as well as spike characters with D-Air. You'll want to use shoes against the lighter crowd with good recoveries, as they can recover from a mere gimp, but cannot stand up to a Smash once they're knocked up a bit. Against heavy characters who can escape a horizontal KO for quite some time, but can't recover, arms are a better bet for a KO. Toss an arm out and jab at them to push them back and stun them, then finish them with an edgeguard if necessary (remember Potato Head's tether is not half bad). You can also simply grab them to get them too low below the edge to live; you won't even need to throw them to finish them here (although you couldn't, even if you wanted, with a spare arm).

This is where inflating a part may come in handy; unless you play enough and know how to get the timing of throwing out a part and attacking a character when the part nears them down, inflating a part is a great little safety net to use. The fall speed is lowered drastically, allowing you to keep attacking, even if you miss (with an uninflated part, you wouldn't get another chance, as it would have fallen off the bottom of the screen). At the same time, the speed the part is thrown at doesn't change; if it did, your offstage victim would have a much easier time dodging the part as they recovered. It's the best of both worlds, really.

All in all, Potato Head is all about a balance between close and long range. He builds damage at close range, and can push away characters to set-up assistance to his close range game in the form of parts (as well as assistance to these assisting parts with jacks and inflation). When the time comes to KO, Potato Head switches back to longer range, pushing characters offstage, then gimping them from a distance with a part. Once you learn in which situations to play from each range, Potato Head becomes less scattered, and comes together as a coherent force.

Extras

Up Taunt - Hangman's Noose
Potato Head extracts Etch-A-Sketch, draws a noose on it, and shows his opponent, pointing at them in the process.

Side Taunt - Alien Annoyance
An alien pokes its head out of Potato Head's compartment and says, "You have saved our lives. We are eternally grateful!", for Potato Head to shut his compartment, a look of annoyance on his face.

Down Taunt - Angry Eyes
Potato Head pulls out his actual angry eyes and puts them on, before striking a menacing pose. He replaces them with his normal ones after a second.

Entrance - Mr. Tortilla Head
Potato Head walks in, but he's not quite himself...his parts are all poked into a plain tortilla! This causes Potato Head to walk in awkwardly, until the Aliens appear with his main body. His parts hastily abandon the tortilla and enter their regular sockets; Potato Head strikes a pose, ready for battle, as the Aliens jump into his compartment and shut it.

Victory Pose #1 - Work of Art
Potato Head rearranges his parts, placing them all in the wrong sockets, and declares, "Look, I'm Picasso!"

Victory Pose #2 - Juggling
Potato Head juggles his spare arms and shoes over his head, before tossing them up, bending over, and opening his compartment so the parts fall in neatly.

Victory Pose #3 - Alien Applause
Potato Head is continually tossed up and down by the three aliens, a look of annoyance on his face. After a while, he yells out, "Will you just leave me alone?!", to no avail.

Loss Pose - Hat Stomp
Potato Head angrily throws his bowler hat to the ground and stomps it repeatedly, irate over his loss.

Kiki52 · Nov 23, 2008

I personally would not like to see Dixie Kong come in SSB4. She would be too clonish of Diddy, and am sorta glad she didn't make it. Even the monkey sounds for Diddy and Dixie would be the same. I'd much rather have K Rool because as BKupa said he will not be clonish of everyone (be much different than Bowser). I doubt every series will get a 'villain' character as their next series rep. So DK can be the one that gets the villain character, other series can get their 'girl' character.

It always seems like series reps either go:
1. main character (like Mario)
2. other main character/sidekick (like Luigi)
3. villain or girl (it just depends which they choose for each particular series first if there are only 3) (like Peach)
4. villain or girl (like Bowser)

Star Fox could go the same way too.

1. main character (Fox)
2. other main character/sidekick (Falco)
3. villain or girl (Wolf)
4. villain or girl (Krystal)

I also think K Rool should use his Blunderbuss too. It'd be nice as he'd have a real bullet gun in the game, but the way the gun would work it would be a slow projectile with spikes so one couldn't really call it a real life gun. Thus Nintendo cannot be sued for causing another Columbine.

BKupa666 · Nov 23, 2008

Kiki52 said:
I personally would not like to see Dixie Kong come in SSB4. She would be too clonish of Diddy, and am sorta glad she didn't make it. Even the monkey sounds for Diddy and Dixie would be the same. I'd much rather have K Rool because as BKupa said he will not be clonish of everyone (be much different than Bowser). I doubt every series will get a 'villain' character as their next series rep. So DK can be the one that gets the villain character, other series can get their 'girl' character.

It always seems like series reps either go:
1. main character (like Mario)
2. other main character/sidekick (like Luigi)
3. villain or girl (it just depends which they choose for each particular series first if there are only 3) (like Peach)
4. villain or girl (like Bowser)

Star Fox could go the same way too.

1. main character (Fox)
2. other main character/sidekick (Falco)
3. villain or girl (Wolf)
4. villain or girl (Krystal)

I also think K Rool should use his Blunderbuss too. It'd be nice as he'd have a real bullet gun in the game, but the way the gun would work it would be a slow projectile with spikes so one couldn't really call it a real life gun. Thus Nintendo cannot be sued for causing another Columbine.

Yeah, if they can get away with using explosives for Snake, a cannon-firing blunderbuss won't be a big deal. Although if the Japanese hover under the illusion that K.Rool's alter-egos are his brothers, then we may end up with an unoriginal K.Rool. Not a cloned K.Rool, but one that doesn't use all of his massive potential.

I pointed out that pattern a while ago, and there was a thread about it by a different user as well. However, villains have always came before the girls, and although they are mainly girls, the fourth slot usually goes to another sidekick.

Roihu · Nov 23, 2008

Discolicious said:
melee 2.0 but with some sick characters like uhhh inu yasha or master chief or goku(hes a little strong theoretically). Make a 4 person home run contest available so i can see some crazy ****. Find a new director.

You are a ******.

Darky Dee said:
The most significant anime character doesn't compare to Yoda or Mickey, both are cultural phenomena and pop culture icons not just in the U.S. but around the world. How often do we see Naurto, Dragon Ball, or Sailor Moon in major cross-over titles and make guest appearances?

I'm just comparing them two to other characters brought up in this thread. Some like Shadow Queen-- whom I haven't heard of until princesspeachlurver13 keeps bringing her up "as a Peach transformation". I know their chances aren't up there, but Shadow Queen? Yoda inb4 Shadow Queen, Paula, Takamaru, Tin Star, Stafy, Duster, Birdio, Toad, Shy Guy, and so fourth.

Now that I seriously consider that, Yoda would be bad-*** if he were on there. Mickey might be a little stretch. I can't see Mickey having a nice arsenal without having it derived from Kingdom Hearts, and he'd be like a double-third party in that case since they'd need Square's permission for the move set properties. But Yoda? ZOMGGGGG.

Fanboyism can always get the best of you, but let's remember to be realistic.

C.Olimar788 said:
Maybe something like that might happen if someone other than Sakurai got Smash, but as it is Sakurai's opinions about that probably stand for the entire Smash Bros. series. And a new director might respect Sakurai enough to not change the idea of it being video game characters only.

And how can you say that it's unlikely we'll see anime characters but there's "somewhat of a reasonable chance" of Mickey or Yoda? Remember that Smash is being made in Japan...

There's no reasonable chance of either of them. Period.

Spadefox said:
@Jimnymebob:
I agree, I want Smash, not MUGEN.

Best. Quote. For defense against stupid comments. Ever.

BKupa666 said:
hat, I think, was also why Plusle and Minum were cut.

I heard that also, but I find it hard to believe that they couldn't get it to work.
On a side note, I doubt that Plusle and Minun were even considered.
I'll stick with the "it's random" theory.
I mean, seriously, wouldn't they have 2 files?

Hyper_Ridley · Nov 23, 2008

Roihu said:
I heard that also, but I find it hard to believe that they couldn't get it to work.
On a side note, I doubt that Plusle and Minun were even considered.
I'll stick with the "it's random" theory.
I mean, seriously, wouldn't they have 2 files?

Do ice climbers have 2 files?

Roihu · Nov 23, 2008

Hyper_Ridley said:
Do ice climbers have 2 files?

Yes, they do actually.

Hyper_Ridley · Nov 23, 2008

Roihu said:
Yes, they do actually.

That's... interesting to say the least. I though they would only have one since they're not alternate forms.

Red Arremer · Nov 23, 2008

Yes, they do. That's also the reason why there's the theory Dixie and Diddy were first thought to be a tag team.

As for "Plusle & Minun"... It's always been a question whether what this character folder was supposed to be. It was labelled "Pra_Min", if I remember correclty, and the first assumption was that it was the two Pokémon.
Of course, it could've worked out strangely with those two holding hands and therefore making one character.
However, I don't want to point my finger to anything, since I'm not sure myself what "Pra_Min" would've been.
As Roihu said, it also could be "Random" if translated differently, so yea.

Pieman0920 · Nov 23, 2008

BKupa666 said:
Ugg, not this again.

I was the one who said they could swap with a down B. And although K.Rool has little personal development, you can't honestly say that characters without that can't be playable *cough*ROB, Ice Climbers, Zero Suit Samus*cough*. Plus, Dixie could be a complete clone of Diddy (characters using items aren't always canon; she could use popguns and rocketbarrels, and her hair could be used in place of Diddy's tail attacks). K.Rool cannot possibly be a clone of anyone on the roster. And I believe Sakurai said something about how he tried to team up the two but it didn't work. That, I think, was also why Plusle and Minum were cut.

You were the one who did what now? Unless you're using an alt or something, I'd have to inform you that people have made the assuption that Dixie may have been a down B transformation awhile ago.

The problem with you trying to use past examples is that you don't get that there are other things that got these types of characters pushed through. Game & Watch is one of Nintendo's first characters, and the representative of their first portable systems. R.O.B. is one of the most recognized Nintendo peripherals, having multiple cameos throughout the decades. (Also he did get character development in Brawl, technically...like the only thing that did so) Zero Suit Samus IS Samus, so I don't get the no development thing there. In any case, that "form" is blatently fan service, which is something I very much doubt K.Rool can get in with. Dixie couldn't be a complete clone of Diddy as it stands, since Diddy has certain moves that Dixie can't copy. Even if you try to make excuses with the hair, it doesn't change the fact that it wouldn't be the same, which blows a hole in the direct clone argument. If it was just a Ice Climber's type of deal, there would be no problem, since that had already been proven to be possible, so it clearly had to have been something different.
Given this, along with the fact that it would refference DKC2, Diddy and Dixie were likely a combination of Ice Climbers and Zelda/Sheik, with the later's different movesets, but the former's tendency to follow each other around.

Also may I add that using precidence from other series doesn't quite work out. As each series is different, direct corelations won't be found. The Pokemon series for instance had its "female" character (Jiggs) added in before its "villain" (Mewtwo) and the Zelda series gave its female character her own moveset and transformation, while giving the villain and "secondary hero" clone movesets. It depends on the series really, and seeing as Dixie has shown up playable, and stared, in more games than K.Rool, along with the high probability of a already designed moveset, that she has a much larger chance.

§leepy God · Nov 23, 2008

The next Smash Bros. should make Ike's FS broken, just like his games. ^.^

a-maz-ing · Nov 23, 2008

Coroxive said:
Ummmm, all the clones are different in AT LEAST one way, not just Roy and Marth. Dr. Mario has a better chance IMO than Roy does of ever making it back in. Stop isolating just one clone, and pay attention to all of them. sheesh.

But I do like your idea of Bowser's Castle w/magma for a stage; that'd be tight.
And as for the sonic part...Super Sonic = cheap win.
WereSonic = fair win, because at-least you won't be flying around the screen for like 30 seconds

wut? You said Roy should be a marth clone and I said no. i kno all the clones are diff, thats my point exactly. Luigi cant be a mario clone cuz they are diff ppl wit diff moves. Dr. Mario and Mario are the same person. All the other clones arent the same ppl.

fenyx4 · Nov 23, 2008

I just hope it's called Super Smash Bros. Revolution! They're starting to run out of cool fighting names...
Also, a revamped Mewtwo should return alongside Pikachu, Lucario, and Pkmn Trainer!!! I'd ditch Jiggly for M2 anyday

. Plus, get Black Knight from Fire Emblem and a down-sized Ridley (even still, Ridley is very improbable as a fighter due to size

) to fight!
Get Falco and Wolf some different Final Smashes...
And hopefully we can get Wolf Link+Midna and a Pokemon Trainer-esque "Fierce Deity Link"!!! Also, more 3rd-party characters and additional costumes (a red and a silver Sonic to reference Knuckles and Silver, more Samus Suits like Light Version, Dr. Mario costume for Mario, etc.)
Lastly, it wouldn't hurt to get some more females like Rouge and Blaze from Sonic, Krystal from StarFox, etc. Currently, that's all I can think of off the top of my head...I'm sure more ideas will come later...

Oh yeah, Ganon, Falco, and Wolf have gotta be revamped a bit more, and Toon Link has got to go! I'm an avid Link fan, but we do not need any more clones! (aside from Mewtwo, the Mew clone)

SirKibble · Nov 24, 2008

fenyx4 said:
I'd ditch Jiggly for M2 anyday

You are so dead to me. And I don't even really know you. But you're still dead to me.

If Mewtwo got in and Jiggz got cut, I would freakin' kill someone.

Roihu · Nov 24, 2008

SirKibble said:
You are so dead to me. And I don't even really know you. But you're still dead to me.

If Mewtwo got in and Jiggz got cut, I would freakin' kill someone.

Wow.
Didn't think anybody'd care.
I wouldn't really mind if it happened, but I don't want it to happen. Jiggz isn't a clone or anything.

SirKibble · Nov 24, 2008

Roihu said:
Wow.
Didn't think anybody'd care.
I wouldn't really mind if it happened, but I don't want it to happen. Jiggz isn't a clone or anything.

I didn't like Mewtwo in Melee at all. And Jiggz was the first character I ever felt competent with, back in the 64 days. I'm attached, to say the least.

She goes, someone dies.

SkylerOcon · Nov 24, 2008

Jigglypuff is part of the original twelve, and therefor will never be cut.

/discussion

Kiki52 · Nov 24, 2008

Mewtwo is cool and all but Jiggly should stay. Her rest and sleep need buffing totally. Mewtwo should just get in too. Besides good point being part of the original 12 makes her untouchable. Same with Ness, now that Ness is apart of the original 12 he will always stay as well.

Barge · Nov 24, 2008

I don't know why people say "this character is wasting a spot"

Lol, if they wanted to add a character they would create another file for it.

They should keep jiggs and re-add mewtwo.

Fatmanonice · Nov 24, 2008

Well, I finally beat Brawl 100% today so I'll be posting my ideas aside from just characters later this week. Anyways, I think they should create a grab counter system in the next game where you can counter and even reverse grabs. I think this would eliminate a lot of the problems that are caused by chain grabs and help some characters avoid getting completely destroyed by them like Donkey Kong and Fox. Of course, the balance to this system would be that the more damage you have, the harder it would be to do for both sides so chain grabs would still be possible so characters like the Ice Climbers wouldn't loss something vital to their meta-game. For example, if King Dedede has 10% and Bowser has 70%, he'll have a harder time breaking out/reserving it while King Dedede would have a harder time pulling it off if the situation was vice versa. As you could imagine too, it would be harder to completely reverse the grab instead of just breaking it.

Darky Dee · Nov 24, 2008

Z-Airs and New L-button Move Proposal--
I'm assuming the next game is going to use something very similar to the Gamecube's button layout. So this is going to be coming from a player that uses that layout.

The L button serves no purpose to me when I play. When I air-dodge, roll, and dodge, I use the R button. Perhaps a new type of move should be implemented with the L button, like switching over Z-Airs to the L button, and have L-Airs with Air Grabbing set to the Z button to bring that rock-paper-scissors idea.

Also, I think everyone should have some sort of usable Z-Air, and fix kinks like Lucas' not functioning like a Z-Air and Zero Suit Samus' being non-existent.

Diddy Kong/Dixie Kong Issue--
And this Diddy Kong with Dixie Kong idea doesn't sound that bad, two characters for the price of one. In favor of leaving Diddy as untouched as possible, I'd prefer the change 'option/move' take form of a taunt like tag-team slap Dixie's hand when switching instead of his Down Special, so he can retain his bananas.

In my optimistic opinion, I think the Donkey Kong series is deserving of four representatives with Dixie Kong flying solo sans Diddy Kong, with K. Rool's inclusion. IFF there is a need to conserve character slots, which I seriously doubt would happen, then I would be for merging them.

Mewtwo Stuff--
I really miss him and thought with needed buffs, he would be really sweet in Brawl, but unless the roster cap doesn't go over four, I can't see him returning. I don't know if anything would go surpass Super Mario's roster. Only one I can see raising the cap for Super Mario is Geno.

GENO WILL SAVE YOUR POKEYMANZ!

The Clone BS--
Does Falco really still feel like a clone to you people? Ganondorf I can understand, and Toon Link is undoubtfully a replica with needed differences. But Luigi, Falco and Wolf are fine. I think they still seem like a clone to most of us because their designs are too similar.

Ganondorf needs more properties deriving from the Zelda games than Captain Falcon's fabricated move set, like a needed projectile for his typical tennis games with Link with dark magick in his recent games, and his sword. Nothing changed too much, I think aesthetic enhancement would please a lot of us, like instead of a forward smash, a straight stab with the sword would be nice.

Roihu said:
Fanboyism can always get the best of you, but let's remember to be realistic.

I'm not that much of a Star Wars fan, but there is a lot more going for him than random characters others bring up in this thread. If I based my opinion on fanboyism, I would probably demand someone like Gray Fox or The Boss.

1048576 · Nov 24, 2008

I think the grab game needs to be polished to help out big, slow characters. I think that each character should be given a strength value which dictates how many button inputs are needed to break out of grabs. I don't like that Jiggs can hold Bowser just as long as Bowser can hold Jiggs.

Red Arremer · Nov 24, 2008

Roihu said:
Wow.
Didn't think anybody'd care.

Jigglypuff's inclusion in Smash is one of the main reasons I bought the games to begin with.

Jimnymebob · Nov 24, 2008

Spadefox said:
Jigglypuff's inclusion in Smash is one of the main reasons I bought the games to begin with.

I like Jigglypuff as well. She was my second main in Melee.
It's ashame that they nerfed rest though

.
At least rollout got better

.

Roihu · Nov 24, 2008

Jimnymebob said:
I like Jigglypuff as well. She was my second main in Melee.
It's ashame that they nerfed rest though.
At least rollout got better.

But so easy to punish.

Jimnymebob · Nov 24, 2008

Roihu said:
But so easy to punish.

True.
Congratulations fatmanonice

.
By 100%, do you mean SSE, all challenges completed, or everything finished on the highest difficulty?

Kitsune Inferno · Nov 24, 2008

My character wishes:

The Brawl cast should mostly stay intact, minus ROB. He only felt like a viable choice because of his role in SSE. Other than that, I think he should be axed. Although, I wouldn't mind either way.

Since the Mario series is the de facto character limit, I think some characters from said universe should be added. Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, and Baby Mario Bros. are my picks (although the latter could arguably be a Yoshi character). Wolf Link would be a welcome addition IMO as well. It would give both him and Mario three forms instead of him outnumbering Mario in forms.

Dedede, Olimar, and Wario should be moved into the unlockable list.

Falcon, Ness, Marth, Sonic, and Snake should be bumped up to starters.

Dixie Kong would be great. Smash is lacking in the female character department, so I'd welcome her with open arms. Same with Krystal. Although, you might say Star Fox has too many reps already.

Eliwood as Roy's spiritual successor. Fire Emblem has such a large character pool and Eliwood is popular enough to suffice. F-Zero also has a large pool, and the one who makes the most sense would be Samurai Goroh. To add another Pokemon to the deck, Plusle and Minum were possible Brawlers, why not be Rumblers? (I'm so calling Super Smash Bros. Rumble as the next game's title)

Isaac and Lip would be great new series reps. Lip for added females, Isaac for more Golden Sun publicity.

About third-party characters, I would like to see a new universe as well as expansion on the other two. Tails and Knuckles are shoe-ins, but for MGS, I'd have to say Raiden, for his role in MGS2. About a new universe, Megaman and all that are great choices, but I think the most recognizable choice would be Pac-Man.

I think these four characters should be super hard to unlock though, especially Pac-Man

Therefore my list:
(*=unlockable)

-MARIO: Mario, Luigi*, Peach, Bowser, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario*, Baby Mario Bros*
-DK: Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong*
-ZELDA: Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf*, Toon Link*, Wolf Link*
-METROID: Samus/ZSS
-YOSHI: Yoshi
-KIRBY: Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede*
-STARFOX: Fox, Falco*, Wolf*, Krystal
-POKEMON: Pikachu, Jigglypuff*, Pokemon Trainer, Lucario*, Plusle and Minum*
-MOTHER: Ness, Lucas
-F-ZERO: Captain Falcon, Samurai Goroh*
-ICE CLIMBER: Ice Climbers
-FIRE EMBLEM: Marth, Ike, Eliwood*
-GAME & WATCH: Mr. Game and Watch*
-WARIO: Wario*
-KID ICARUS: Pit
-PIKMIN: Olimar*
-GOLDEN SUN: Isaac
-PANEL DE PON: Lip
-METAL GEAR: Snake, Raiden*
-SONIC: Sonic, Tails*, Knuckles*
-PAC-MAN: Pac-Man*

TOTAL: 49 characters.

Red Arremer · Nov 24, 2008

Kitsune Inferno said:
The Brawl cast should mostly stay intact, minus ROB. He only felt like a viable choice because of his role in SSE. Other than that, I think he should be axed. Although, I wouldn't mind either way.

Why do people hate R.O.B. so much?

Roihu · Nov 24, 2008

WAIT--
You want to put all the crap in but take out R.O.B!?
GTFO!
But seriously, R.O.B is much better than most of the stuff you mentioned there.
Also, Plusle & Minun before Blaziken? Never.

[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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