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It isn't always that Easy! Marth vs Peach

Xilo Pryce

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
1,320
Location
Modesto, Ca-San Antonio, Tx
I'm a Marth main, and as such am instantly expected to beat the hell out of Peach. The issue is, that, I don't. Or rather, against the one friend I play who mains Peach, I can't put up the fight I should be able to. I've looked for advice, but there's nothing really about Peach in marth matchups. I read up on the peach threads, but it feels like they just tell me how the peach is going to beat me.

Not being very good with this match is only amplified by my friend being really good in the match up. Being that he is maybe the most active person on the peach forums, he's had a lot of research on the match.

So, I am looking for help on the match up, and critique. I have one video of this match that is very recent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP76qAfwjoo

any tips, issue or help would be great. Anything would be helpful, I just want to get better.
 

I.B

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
1,704
Location
Torontario
Abuse Marth's range. When you're going in to approach with fair or nair(auto-cancelled) make sure you space yourself so that you'd be hitting Peach with the tip of your sword. With this, if she's in her shield, she takes enough stun that you can continue the pressure without being punished for it. If she gets hit by it then it's an easy combo because it's more hit stun to work with. If she crouch cancels it...well, try to dash away asap or reverse Dolphin slash or something =P

On the defense, when she's approaching behind a turnip(turnip headed for you, Peach following up with an aerial), one of your options would be to counter the turnip and she'll most likely get hit by the attack if they didn't know you were going to do that. If they start getting wise to that, you can easily wavedash backwards and swipe(jab, w/e) the turnip and just go from there.

Also, I don't know about %s specifically, but you can crouch cancel her dash attack. That can lead into a grab, f-smash, or whatever really. All that matters is that it potentially sets up for a tech chase, and tech chasing hurts Peach badly. On that note, here's some tech-chase guidelines that I follow myself.

(these would mostly apply to f-throwing Peach at low percent, but high enough to fall over into teching position. also would apply more to a Peach who's tech patterns you don't know.)

So, first you f-throw her. Then you do a short little dash forward asap after the throw(work on reacting asap out of throws!). From here, she has 7 options: no tech then get up, no tech then roll away, no tech then roll inwards, no tech then getup attack, tech in place, tech roll away, or tech roll inwards. You want to cover these options as well as you can. What I do is, I space a tipper fair/nair into the spot of her in-place actions(no tech then get up, no tech then getup attack, tech in place), and depending on your timing, it should cover all the in-place options. If you mess up the timing then you can hold your shield up to cover the get up attack option, or wavedash back to space yourself far enough not to get hit by the get up attack, but close enough to punish with f-smash. So, now, you've finished your fair/nair, and you've realized they tech-rolled away. What do you do? React asap after your aerial and follow her accordingly. Alot of Peaches like to either hold up their shield, spot-dodge, or jab after they've tech'd. So either grab to cover the shield option, space yourself within f-smash tipper distance to cover the spot-dodge option, or CC the jab into more tech chasing, lol =P. Also, dash attack can be good for chasing tech rolls and d-air tech chase for additional tech chasing, combos and sex(make sure she's not at like 0 - 10% though=P)

Other random advice:

Peach likes to 'lunge' inside Marth's range with dash attack and crap. Don't let her do that. If for some reason you messed up spacing Marth's incredible range and you see her coming in with a dash attack, do NOT jump. She will most likely catch you with the dash attack and since you're in the air, you can't CC and punish her for it and that's some free % for her. Instead, either CC and punish, or if you're too high to CC, then just activate super dash away timing and **** her with your sword. Or you can shield grab her if she didn't overshoot the dash attack to finish behind you.

More advice:

Cactuar says Marth can f-throw ->perfect wavedash tipper f-smash Peach at around 100%. I personally fail at this cuz I guess my wavedash length/timing is inferior to Cactus. ****ing Cactus.

I like to mess around with Peach sometimes and u-throw her instead of f-throw and catch her with random u-tilt -> aerial combos. I mean really, Peach is so vulnerable in the air, why the hell not?

All in all though, forcing Peach into tech chase hurts her extremely bad. Spacing and timing is key against Peach.
 

Captain Grenade

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 9, 2008
Messages
99
Spacing and timing is key against Peach.
SPACING!!!!

mike, he's got some good tips here.
but i could prolly beat him in this match up too. LOL

but in all honesty, i feel like i could beat my peach with marth now. haha
 

Xilo Pryce

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
1,320
Location
Modesto, Ca-San Antonio, Tx
Long descriptive advice.
wow, that was very informative.

I try usually not to CC because god knows what could happen. As a marth, I'm always trying to improve my spacing.

The R. dolphin slash is a good idea, I don't use it enough. I'm getting nervous lately about using Nairs to approach, it always seems to be a bad plan.

I forgot that marth uthrow can kill her at high %, I should try that on smaller stages. Countering turnips is a good Idea, I should try that when the time comes.

I think the advice that will really help me a lot there (I mean there's a lot, but something that will help me with getting the kill) is the positioning tips when she get's knocked down, that seems really useful. And if there's one thing my marth can do, it's be flashy, which , wavedashing far, is helpful for. So I may be able to use cactaur's words

I'm really grateful for all that help. I'm going to read over it a few more times, if anything else comes up in my mind to comment on, I'll reply again
 

choknater

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
27,296
Location
Modesto, CA
NNID
choknater
Wow. Mike, I'll say this, you have improved a lot since last time we played. You should come over thursday :)

Yeah, spacing is the key here. A lot of times I see you jump in with a fair but keep moving forward, that can just get you easily punished. Try being able to ALWAYS hit with the tip of marth's sword, even if you double fair. If you wanna purposely hit with the middle of the sword, you better have a follow up cuz peach can punish.

Basically it's the superior spacing that gives marth the edge. use wd's and double jumps to keep urself safe. cuz the reason you're losing is because you're being punished for being too close or not reacting to the turnips well or something.

Good stuff though I can see your improvement mike
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
Spacing's pretty important, yeah. What you should try to do is to keep yourself close enough so that she can't safely pull turnips but not within dsmash range. Peach's float is pretty slow, and her run isn't amazing either, so you'll have time to react to whatever she tries to do. The dash attack could be problematic, but as long as you watch for the dash and don't get screwed up by dash dancing, you should be fine.

If they do start dash dancing, I'd go in with a spaced fair. If you whiff, expect the dash attack, so shield or jab or something. If you connect, start combo'ing.

If you can get Peach into the air, you're in business. Peach's dair sucks for trying to go down, and her mobility isn't all that great. If you just walk and wavedash beneath her, you should be able to keep her up there for a while with utilts or other combos.
 

NeighborhoodP

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Messages
8,199
Location
SoCal
the biggest thing that gets me into trouble with peach is shielding.

Peach is at her best when you are shielding because this is when her gayness and her priority take over. if you come down with a fair, immediately dash away or, if you know you're going to get dash attacked, CC it. don't just fair and sit in your shield after, it's a bad habit a ton of people have
 

ICEDTEA1325

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
182
Location
Hopewell Jct. New York
i would say about 90% of the time peach has a turnup in hand and is running towards you she will throw the turnup and then dash attack. i shield the turnup but then let go on shield for some reason and get hit by the dash attack. when i should shield then R up B out of the shield that works(i know its been said just setting an example). also i find double fairs works well and sh fair jump fair fair is a great spacer.
 

Captain Grenade

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 9, 2008
Messages
99
i would say about 90% of the time peach has a turnup in hand and is running towards you she will throw the turnup and then dash attack. i shield the turnup but then let go on shield for some reason and get hit by the dash attack. when i should shield then R up B out of the shield that works(i know its been said just setting an example). also i find double fairs works well and sh fair jump fair fair is a great spacer.
man. my friend waffles was playing me in this match up, and he would space fairs till he got one.
at 0% he got sh fair to dtilt to sh double fair to marth madness!!!! LOL

too good
 

Xilo Pryce

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
1,320
Location
Modesto, Ca-San Antonio, Tx
sorry I've not responded to people help, I've not really been on the boards for a little bit

a lot of the stuff I'm seeing suggested is very helpful, and I can see what I need to work on a lot with those tips. It's very helpful, and I appreciate everyone's help so far

ICEDT: I don't know why I'll stop shielding really, I know it's a bad idea, but I think I just want to get away
 

Captain Grenade

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 9, 2008
Messages
99
yeah. unless you upB oos, you shouldn't just let go.

imagine if i just sat there pillaring (like i'm going to do from now on)
 
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