Kojin's Sonic Tech Lab *taking another look at Speed's Sonic*

Camalange said:

I like to mix up my Dthrow tech chases a lot, but now with this new tech I have to work harder D:

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I told ZeonStar (Ganondorf/Bowser/Falcon main/ prospective Sonic user) about the tech, and I also mentioned how certain people thought they could regrab Sonic.

It was really funny because I started doing D-throw standing chaingrabs cause of Ganondorf's grab speed.

JayBee said:

LOL at that comment. mostly because youre soooo right about it.
KID, i've seen that video so many times, and still dont know where that music came from. Im gonna analyze u soon. i swear...

EDiT: the style change in 5:35... got you killed. sry KID

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I didn't really notice a drastic style change x.x;

The music was Ashley's Song (english). Hacked Wii maybe?

me neither. but dats wat he sed.

i want a hacked Wii...

Spent today playing friendlies and working on the jab situations I talked about, seeing if I can get them to work. I need more time before I give an answer, but right now, jab>reverse grab is hard to pull off unless the opponent is spotdodge happy or loves to shield.

But I worked on my D-Throw Tech Chase more today on people, and added it to malcolms usual throw setup at low percents with DDP to tech chase, D-tilt sspam to grab, and reverse grabbing. Jesus. Sweet Jesus. I was so scary off of one grab. pure genious. it was common to get about 40%-45% off a tech chase scenario from 0%, and I usually pushed them to the edge/off the edge afterwards with a D throw for a gimp attempt. so sexy.

I also tried to see if I can use Uair and Nair together in wake up situations as a cross up, and follow with jabs and run based mindgames. didn't work so well, but will work on it and give a report when I'm used to it more.

at that point in the vid, i started effing with his spacing with excessive use of the DDP

also, what got me killed in that vid was the fact that i tried to use upsmash invincibility on command....

still working on that.

also kirk has a lightly hacked wii, so he can set any song to anystage.

its pretty epic fighting on battlefield to live and learn

I want a hacked wii for TvC

JayBee said:

But I worked on my D-Throw Tech Chase more today on people, and added it to malcolms usual throw setup at low percents with DDP to tech chase, D-tilt sspam to grab, and reverse grabbing. Jesus. Sweet Jesus. I was so scary off of one grab. pure genious. it was common to get about 40%-45% off a tech chase scenario from 0%, and I usually pushed them to the edge/off the edge afterwards with a D throw for a gimp attempt. so sexy.

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lol nice.

Oh btw, did you catch when me and Cat killed Sonic's D-throw forever?

Tenki said:

lol nice.

Oh btw, did you catch when me and Cat killed Sonic's D-throw forever?

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lol.

Whn we played yesterday, I was waiting for you to d-throw. I was thinking, maybe you would out of habit or something.

You never did T_T

So notice how during those FFA's, I d-throwed everyone constantly, except you.

What's wrong with D-throw ?

Gf2tw said:

What's wrong with D-throw ?

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You can tech it. The intial throw. So....you end up right infrint of Sonic, while Sonic is stuck in a couple of frames of throw lag.

DI down and immedeate tech?

Gf2tw said:

DI down and immedeate tech?

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yeah

thing is, at any percentage, Sonic's f-tilt has enough range to hit the other Sonic.

SO never d-throw in SOnic dittos. Never.

Depends on who you fight. Doesn't matter that Boxob told everyone in Tactical, most didn't believe him. I'm so gonna use this on Chis, he D-throws WAY too much.

Gf2tw said:

Depends on who you fight. Doesn't matter that Boxob told everyone in Tactical, most didn't believe him. I'm so gonna use this on Chis, he D-throws WAY too much.

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True and when I brawled him yesterday he used homing attack a little bit to much also he uses smashes and grabs alot.

SonicX580 said:

True and when I brawled him yesterday he used homing attack a little bit to much also he uses smashes and grabs alot.

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lol are you talking about yourself?

Because you used them ALOT more times than I did.

That's basicly how you should play... Sonic is relying on smashes and grabs. Aerials are kind of OK. And he doesn't overuse HA, he tries to incorporate it to his game.

thecatinthehat said:

lol are you talking about yourself?

Because you used them ALOT more times than I did.

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No I was talking about Chis and Gf2tw he used them so much I saw them coming.

Lol, I never use HA and I haven't played you yesterday.

Gf2tw said:

Depends on who you fight. Doesn't matter that Boxob told everyone in Tactical, most didn't believe him. I'm so gonna use this on Chis, he D-throws Up throws WAY too much.

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Good luck pulling that off on wifi :D

SonicX580 said:

True and when I brawled him yesterday he used homing attack a little bit to much also he uses smashes and grabs alot.

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HA: ??? lol wut?

Smash: Hyphen like twice in a match, rarely use down smash or does pivot Fsmashes?

Grabs: ...

what? i didn't see that. lol is it on youtube now?
edit: and how legit is the grab release info for sonic?

Another Wall of Text for you lazies. Let's take a look at another Sonic's Playstyle.

RATS no Style: The japanese Sonic player is one of the most unique players that we have for this character, and I enjoyed watching him play. The first thing you know is that He loves the spin cancels, and is constantly showing them to his opponent. I often times wonder why he is getting away with certain moves, that I feel should be punished earlier, and i think its because he shows so many cancels so quickly, its insane, even for a sonic main myself. His mindgames no matter the distance, revolves around quick dashes and SideB cancels to condition the opponent. He'll Side B cancel three times in a row in quick succession before he makes his move. He even side B cancels even to turn around. He does not posses the grab mindgames to the extent of someone like Malcolm, but he has a solid grab game and utilizes his dtilts well. Maybe its because Japanese Sonic's focus more on spins for punishment, and the Americans on grabs for punishement, but this is a theory. He primary finisher is the FSmash, and Bair, like all of us, and his knowlege of Sonic's normal kill tactics is on par with the likes of Tenki, Malcolm, and Mr. 3000. He just loves his spins, which is why he shows less tilit usage than the three mentioned.

EDIT: I think its because the Japanese already killed D-Throw, watching some matches proved this theory. Up Throw and D-Throw are the most used in his game though.

His aggressiveness is also unique, and is similar to my own, except that I feel that he is far better than me in the air, and his moves seems to be very fast in terms of execution (or maybe I'm "too slow"... whatever...). He will go for the most possible damage combo, watch you avoid it maybe 2 times, then on the third, as you try to airdodge, he will Dair you as you finish it. Though advanced Sonics will do this, he will use SDVJ, and Spin shots to maintain speed in the air and maintain an offensive while avoiding complacent movement. But unlike sonics, he will UpB from a spin shot far earlier than us Americans do, and it keeps him very safe. His confidence in his Spring Diving (UpB>Dair) may be a weakness in the end, as we all know, but to me, he doesn't get punished too badly. Maybe he treats his UpB more like a projectile than we do. Not to say he won't use it as a GTFO move, which he does at the slightest change of momentum towards his opponent. And the moves he uses after the dair look seemless. Lastly, he commonly spaces UpB so that he barely gets on the ledge with a move, usually a Bair or Uair, which has little lag, so he can continue attacking as normal.

If there is anyone who I'd say mastered the HA, its probably RATS. He already uses it better than most Sonic's Iv'e seen, and the way he adds it to his recovery is brilliant, slowing his decent, then taking advantage of a nonlocked HA to get closer.

By far he is the most aggressive Sonic I've ever rated, and knows how to rack up damage and stay on them without grabs better than I've ever seen a Sonic. He is a true example of a Combo type Sonic.

Style Verdict: Combo/Air/Edge
Things I Learned: abuse Side B cancel for mindgames; working SDVJ into offense to increase aerial game

discuss. ステーキ. Steak.

Can't watch that format on my ps3 ... are his matches on teh tubz at all??

lol RATS style.

Just look at me playing.

My style is a carbon copy of his style. Possibly faster, cause I have more tricks, and I actually gimp.

Just ask any other Sonic main I've played. Ask Camalange, Kinzer, Infzy, etc. etc.

Spinshots, shield cancels, springdairs, foxtrots.

The point is too create the illusion of speed.

Never stop moving.

Make sudden movements. Change the direction of your momentum.

Speed itself is the mindgame.

Make your opponent feel slow.

lol I'm ranting.

But CiTH.

You're a scrub.

<3

Also, rat's is way faster, sorry buddy.

Boxob. said:

But CiTH.

You're a scrub.

<3

Also, rat's is way faster, sorry buddy.

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lol.

We haven;t played in forever.

Like since november. D:

I'm different now.

And you cant count those FFA's/ Doubles this past week.

Lag kills all playstyles.

JMan8891 said:

Can't watch that format on my ps3 ... are his matches on teh tubz at all??

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Youtube serach for "RATS (Sonic)" and you will find them no problem.

For some reason I doubt you play like RATS. doesn't mean youre bad or anything...
Dont make me rate your style. I will, I swear... and I havent forgotten you, KID...

and about Lag killing playstyles: its either a massive john or you're playing people half a continent away, or your connection sux. besides, RATS plays online well. No Japanese John ever from him. I know. I can speak Japan. Steak.

I can vouch that Cat is one of the quickest Sonics out there XD. Rats may be quicker though. He makes use of more VSDJs too.

Lag can defnitely kill playstyles, especially if you rely on precision.

Lag definitely kills most playstyles. When playing online, I haven't had any problems with excessive lag (fortunately), but there always seems to be that one little instance where there's a nanosecond connection hiccups and you miss a grab.

I was playing Neon Ness and there were instances where I missed a grab or didn't dodge quick enough....and I got absolutely destroyed for it. But it's one of those things where I just have to adjust to it.

lol.

Well most online FFA's/Doubles are laggy. Especially, if 4 seperate Wii's are involved.

So it's not a john, considering that FFA's are gay.

AND Japan has a pretty condensed population.

That plus their superior networking tech should make for blue connections galore.

edit: oh yeah, and I have a blue connection with Napi. <3

thecatinthehat said:

lol RATS style.

Just look at me playing.

My style is a carbon copy of his style. Possibly faster, cause I have more tricks, and I actually gimp.

Just ask any other Sonic main I've played. Ask Camalange, Kinzer, Infzy, etc. etc.

Spinshots, shield cancels, springdairs, foxtrots.

...

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Well, I'll say you do springdair.

But you seriously do it too much lol. Half the time I just have to pay attention to which way you're facing, shield dash into spring, and if shield successes, I get an F-smash 9_9;

RATS is more unpredictable.

CUsmasher2011 said:

Lag definitely kills most playstyles. When playing online, I haven't had any problems with excessive lag (fortunately), but there always seems to be that one little instance where there's a nanosecond connection hiccups and you miss a grab.

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I can never run back and forth (at minimal distance) > attack correctly online, so I've stopped doing it lol.

I also have issues doing Sonic's Foxtrot/ Foxtrot dance online. Strangely enough, I can do it easily with Falcon, maybe cause Falcon's foxtrot doesn't transition to slowrun/slide like Sonic's does.

It really kills a part of my feint game :[

Tenki said:

I also have issues doing Sonic's Foxtrot/ Foxtrot dance online. Strangely enough, I can do it easily with Falcon, maybe cause Falcon's foxtrot doesn't transition to slowrun/slide like Sonic's does.

It really kills a part of my feint game :[

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Yeah, WiFi sucks because some of the techniques that I do offline I won't even dare try online, even if was a really good connection (non-Sonic e.g.: Lucario's ExtremeHog). But that is where I just have to come up with someone new or just adjust, instead of getting frustrated by the lag. However, even trying to not become angry with the lag is REALLY hard to do *shrugs*.

Jesus, I can't effectively DDP online for the life of me. It also screws up my running shield grabs becuase you need very specific timing so that the shielgrab input doesn't become a running grab without being too slow about it. So I've begun using more SDSCs for grabs in general, because its guaranteed not to be a dash grab and has more "range" than a running shielgrab anyways. Plus I still believe it has a weird easy powershield property to it(if you're spacing right, it "teleports" you within the opponents hitbox with a shield command, so you're essentially powershielding as soon as possible. Hard to explain my thoughts). Only problem is that there is a small period of vulnerability.

**** it, this is online, you can't play a fast Sonic like that online. GL with your real life fights though O_o.

BTW, post a vid here, I don't wanna go search the internet/youtube.

Please take a look at these RATS matches.

I'd really like it if we all stuct these a bit concerning his fakes n stuff, and see if we can improve on this part of our game. but anyways, the vids, as many as I could find on youtube. And I know Wifi sux, i was just pickin on u.

RATS (sonic) vs Zeon (fox)
Sonic(RATS) vs Fox(Saiya)
Sonic(RATS) vs Fox(OUJI)
Sonic(RATS) vs Ike(Abyss)
Sonic (RATS) vs PT (とっしーTossi)

RATS（Sonic） vs　かなまる - Kanamaru（Ness)

Sonic(RATS) vs CF(Chiyo)
Sonic(RATS) vs Pikachu(ANONYMOUS

Enjoy. Discuss.

I envy his U-tilt usage. I bet he has tap jump off. Oh man...

really? i don't think he uses it that much...

In the Falcon match it was good :/. More than us at least.

I never got confirmation as to whether or not RATS' matches were online or offline.

Sonic can't be played like this online. This must be offline... Mustn't it!?!

Well, like I said, their connections are sex sauce.

Gf2tw said:

Sonic can't be played like this online. This must be offline... Mustn't it!?!

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green-blue connections, it's possible to play like that :3

I kind of miss being able to leech off a T1 connection off of a router that apparently didn't have any special firewall crap to worry about. It was pretty amazing.

Oh yea, I totally forgot, Japan has the best internet connections in the world O_o.

I don't know about that, but at least they're all in the same region, which is relatively small and local (while the average wifi match in the US is probably like 2x-5x the distance that people in JPN would have to play against).