A Demons perspective of a Perfect Pokemon.

Da-D-Mon-109 · Jan 22, 2009

Hey ya. I'm semi new to smash boards, but certainly not new to Brawl. I may not do all the new things like Wavedashing or Grapple Spam or anything like that, but I've certainly had a great bit of Smashes and Melees in my day, and Brawl is really awesome too.

I like a lot of people, but Lucario was one of the characters I picked up and instantly loved. THE AURA IS WITH ME has become my catch phrase. He's epic, he's uber, he's as cool as Meta-Knight, and he kicks butt and takes names.

I started thinking about him, and I'd like someone to explain something to me, if they can. I'm not saying they can't, and I'm not saying it can't be done. I just don't understand something. And that something is this, and simply this:Lucario has no weaknesses.

He has a very good projectile, he has a defensive attack, he has an incredibly useful recovery, he has a projectile/grab, his techniques all gain power as he gains damage, he can outrange people with his aura attacks, his attacks have great priority (atleast in my oppinion), his aerials can catch lots of enemys by surprize, he has a decent grab game....

Dude, is there anything Lucario can't do? Honestly, either I'm being really generous, or Lucario seems to be someone who can slaughter any opponent.... I want to ask if someone can tell me if I'm just being diluted or if they've caught on to THE POWER OF AURA!

Browny · Jan 22, 2009

he doesnt have many weaknesses, but compared to the rest of the cast, his strengths arent so 'strong', so to speak. He doesnt have something like a kirby fsmash, snake utilt, shuttle loop etc to exploit, but AS is still really good

Having average or above average everything isnt going to make a character amazing

Ambient_Horizon · Jan 22, 2009

First off: Lucario is at least 10 times cooler than Metaknight :D

Seriously speaking Lucario, much like everyone else in Brawl has weaknessess. The biggest one is Extremespeed and its lack of being able to damage people. Because of this he can be knocked out of his recovery and thus gimped. Fortunately he has the option if being able to Wall Cling but that's not always a viable option or sometimes its just risky. Lucario also has bad vertical knockback resistance and Brawl seems to favor vertical kills. Moves like Snake's U-Tilt can kill Lucario early even with proper DI.

I think you're overselling a few things like his range (Marth clearly outranges him) but he's a very good character. I actually started playing him too. I main Snake but he's a lot of fun to me. Glad you like Lucario so much though he doesn't get too much representation. The thing is that he is fairly average or above average in everything he does. He doesn't have any godly moves like Snake's Tilt or MK's Whorenado. Not excelling in anything does hurt a character's rating to a degree imo. But its also his strength too since he can adapt well to any situation. That's why I like him..like Snake there are so many things you can do with Lucario. Not in the same context but Lucario is diverse and fun character

Not to mention pretty **** good.

G-Beast · Jan 23, 2009

while he may have some bad matchups, theres no obstacle a good Lucario cannot overcome... as SBR says, "Lucario is the character with all the answers"
to Ambient Horizon: most of Marth's attacks outrange ours, but he cant beat our Dair(in some circumstances) or fsmash for range... speaking of which our usmash beats his dair

BTW wavedashing is not possible in brawl

tedward2000 · Jan 23, 2009

Lucario is 100x times sexier then MK. its not even comparable.

Also said about lucario is he's a "Clutch" or as we say, The Comeback King.
-t2

Timbers · Jan 23, 2009

People please stop saying that ES not doing damage is a large fault. His poor oos options and linear approach are much worth talking about when speaking of weaknesses, infact it's probably the only two things worth mentioning.

Col. Stauffenberg · Jan 23, 2009

Aren't there like 20 characters who die off the top earlier than Lucci? I'm not sure why people keep saying vertical KOs are a weakness of his.

Timbers · Jan 23, 2009

iirc his vertical resistance was on par with Falco.

Da-D-Mon-109 · Jan 23, 2009

From what I've heard so far, he's so balanced some people can try to defeat him by using some of the strengths they have above him (like speed with Pikachu or Strength with Snake), ExtremeSpeed isn't a safe recovery (although the angels you can recover with it rock), he seems to be lacking somehow in up/down battling, he has poor Oos options (which I want to assume is "Out of Screen"), and he has a poor straight approach. Hm...

Xiahou Dun · Jan 23, 2009

Da-D-Mon-109 said:
From what I've heard so far, he's so balanced some people can try to defeat him by using some of the strengths they have above him (like speed with Pikachu or Strength with Snake), ExtremeSpeed isn't a safe recovery (although the angels you can recover with it rock), he seems to be lacking somehow in up/down battling, he has poor Oos options (which I want to assume is "Out of Screen"), and he has a poor straight approach. Hm...

It's Out Of Shield. He doesn't have much he can successfully and easily do to counterattack when he has just blocked an attack.

phi1ny3 · Jan 23, 2009

Timbers said:
People please stop saying that ES not doing damage is a large fault. His poor oos options and linear approach are much worth talking about when speaking of weaknesses, infact it's probably the only two things worth mentioning.

Don't forget that for compensation for a fantastic fsmash, the others are kind of sucky/situational. I would say his linear game is also a problem, especially having only one good approach (fair), ugh! At least he is safer against a shield compared to marth (not that marth doesn't have options).

Oh yeah, and people who say ES is uber weak in recovery, haven't either fully exploited lucario's edgegame, or haven't done wallcling on the stages that allow it. His double jump is amazing and if you fire BAS/fair to cover you, you can even get to the edge with relative ease, although he usually won't need to.

CaliburChamp · Jan 23, 2009

Lucario does have bad match ups. Only a few bad ones. Like G&W for one example. G&W can KO Lucario very early preventing Lucario from being fully buffed from being at a high percentage. And AS can be bucketed. G&W is hard to gimp and all of his smash moves are very powerful and quick. The next hardest would probably be Falco, Dedede, Snake, Fox, Wolf, and Pit. Mostly any character that has a reflector, and an easy to land KO move.

ckm · Jan 23, 2009

IMO, Lucario's biggest weakness is his poor grab range. (I suppose this falls under the category of OOS, as well, since his shieldgrab has piss-poor horizontal range). It's really frustrating, especially when combined with his lackluster movement speed.

Oh, and G&W is not as bad a matchup as everyone makes it out to be. Playing smart with AS and proper spacing makes this matchup fairly even, IMO. Now DDD and Olimar--those are rough matchups.

Col. Stauffenberg · Jan 23, 2009

CaliburChamp said:
Lucario does have bad match ups. Only a few bad ones. Like G&W for one example. G&W can KO Lucario very early preventing Lucario from being fully buffed from being at a high percentage. And AS can be bucketed. G&W is hard to gimp and all of his smash moves are very powerful and quick. The next hardest would probably be Falco, Dedede, Snake, Fox, Wolf, and Pit. Mostly any character that has a reflector, and an easy to land KO move.

Not really. Lucario's bad matchups are characters who can easily outspace him and get around his defensive game/force an approach.

Fizzle · Jan 23, 2009

His lack of a punishing game is probably his biggest disadvantage. His ground game is rather slow in comparison to other high/top tiers - Wario is the only one who can compare. His finishers are all telegraphed, and at low %s he's going to have a difficult time killing with them anyway.

Da-D-Mon-109 · Jan 23, 2009

I was scared of making this thread, that people might flame me for trying to ask for help instead of learning how to figure out his flaws for myself, and I'm genuinly surprised at how much I've understood so far. I've learned a lot , and I've tried testing of it, and I'm happy to understand it a little bit more. Lucario is a really balanced character, albeit a slightly sluggish one with his techniques, and is better off against those who have to come into the range of he and his aura to fight. (I wanna say that Ike is a person who can outrange Lucario and force him to fight at closer and much more dangerous combat.) He's better off making a person come to him and get blasted to bits by his Aura, but also doesn't perform too well under extreme pressure.
***new question***
I don't want to be rude, but since plenty of you are answering my question, can you help me with another? Since most compeditive tournaments are set "Best out of 3, with the loser switching to a new character", who would be someone that I could switch to, should I find that Lucario might not be able to cut it anymore? He'll always be my opener, but I'm also good with Mario, Zelda, both Samus', Pit, Kirby, MetaKnight, Fox, Ike, and Sonic. And if we know his weaknesses, who might be good characters that would compensate against someone who could capitalize on those weaknesses? (PS

lease don't flame me for liking Meta-Knight. I know he's an awesome borderline rigged character, but I only used him 'cause of how bad-a he's been in the Kirby series.)

Fizzle · Jan 23, 2009

Meta Knight is obviously anyone's best choice for a secondary, but Marth, Falco, and the ICs cover Lucario's counters well too. Snake is also a good choice.

But if that's not important to you, then just pick who you enjoy playing with the most. Your secondary will come eventually. No need to force it.

phi1ny3 · Jan 23, 2009

Its OK to second MK, the reason people get chastised for it is when they only care about winning and don't really main them out of "feel" or taste of character. On top of the bad things is few approach options (only one good one), and has only a few "uber moves", whereas most of the other characters like MK or Marth have amazing uses for just about everything, or the characters have more flexible "god-tier" attacks/advantages that cover their weaknesses in a matchup better (like D3/falco chaingrab).

tedward2000 · Jan 23, 2009

I clap for those who play kirby.

But its been generally decided that Marth is a good alt, due to his shear amazing over-all game and semi-similarity to lucario.
And no hurt in playing a character that you like. Its all goof.
-t2

Da-D-Mon-109 · Jan 23, 2009

I was hoping I 'd pick someone who wasn't just uber good or high tier, but someone who can fight where Lucario can't, or who can significantly cover for his weaknesses. I've heard about Marth and Dedede and Snake and Metaknight being good, but I don't want to be like everyone else who just kinda throws in someone who's high tier. I wanna rock with someone who could work very well with him and cover him, and isn't their just because they are considered awesome over all. I'm sorry if I'm being rude and picky, but If I can, I was hoping that you guys could help me pick of some of those I've found I enjoy playing the most already. I'm a little scared of using Zelda or G-Rated Samus, because they remind me of Lucario's fighting style a lot. Maybe Shiek or Sexy Samus, since they fight a lot different than him... for my personal consideration, there's also Mario, Fox, Pit, Kirby, Ike, and Sonic (Or Meta-Knight if he's really the best alternative).

You guys don't even need to answer this one if you don't have to. I know I'm being hard. But it would still help my game play to figure out any other things I need to watchout for, besides possible speed freaks and long ranged close fighters.

tedward2000 · Jan 23, 2009

I'm serious, Go play Kirby. He's a blast, and his dash is by far one of the best looking. Good aerials, smashes, and one of the only characters in brawl to have True combos. Also, he's able to pull of chains just as easy as lucario and staying in the air is little to no problem.

Pit is fun, and samus too. Or be epic and pull out CF to **** face. Nothing is more satisfying in Brawl then pulling of a reverse Falcon Pawnch.

oh and goof was completely intentional last post.
-t2

Da-D-Mon-109 · Jan 23, 2009

I know that all the characters that I listed were fun. If I didn't like them, I probably wouldn't consider playing with them. I used to surprize my friends by owning with Mario. I got trough Starfox Assault and Command, and I gaind new respect for him (despite me use to being uber with Falco, ever since using him to beat event match 51). I like Pit because I can give him his black outfit and pretend to be Sephiroth, the Evil Angel-only I have 2 WINGS! MUHAHA! Kirby was a demon in the first Smash Bros, and I still like him, although I wish his attacks used more of his other copy abilities (like his dash used to use Fire). I never got into Marth and Roy (although I'd pretend I was a Super Sayain with Roy's Flare Blade and Yellow Armor), but I tried Ike and got surprized at the speed and power he possesses. And Sonic? I'm one of the few people who has loved Sonic in every one of his games (except for how ******** the screen can get in Secret Rings), and I will always love using the Blue Blur. Zelda I tried once at a random tournament, and I was surprized that I won with relative ease. Shiek is good for when power won't cut it. Samus was an origonal of mine, who I coud easily use (and who reminded me of Frieza so that's a plus). And Zero Suit Samus is notonly a huge challenge to fight afte being destroyed by Samus, but she is also uber sexy, and the whip appeals to my Adhd. And despite what people say about him, I don't see Metaknight as rigged. Being lightweight, incredibly dedicated to his move set, and low priority comboes are what keeps him from being immortal. So I'm not totally ashamed in using him. To be honest, I only like him 'cause he's so Epic. KNOW MY POWER! BEHOLD! FIGHT ME! COME BACK WHEN YOU CAN PUT UP A FIGHT! He's awesome, you have to admit that.

But honestly, Lucario is someone who fits my playing style like a glove.... any mistake an enemy makes, he's the type of person who can usually capitalize on it perfectly. Need to come back at the last second, nd he's usually one who can turn the tide of battle. He's like a friggin Jedi. And I need to know who his apprentice should be, out of those that I have stated, that way I don't need to spend the several years it has taken me to master a new person, or if I do need to, I can start right away. And I'd prefer it if it wasn't someone who's just picked because they are high-tier, because I personally think Tiers are over rated. I just need a partner to him who can nturally fight well with him, and beat up anyone who takes advantage of his weakesses (which seems to mainly consist of his bad and predictable approach, and no stats that are exactly high compared to ayone else (except for power, once his aura activates), which makes me consider Sonic).

I'm sorry if I'm being annoying or anything. If I'm being that much of an issue you guys can report me and close the thread and get me banned and everything. I just want to know what I can't seem to grasp while fighting lvl 9 computers, or from the poor kids that challenge me at my school. I have to get ready for actual tournaments and actual fighters. I HAVE TO BECOME STRONGER! THE AURA IS WITH ME! RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRR!

Da-D-Mon-109 · Jan 23, 2009

Also, I'd never use captain falcon. It's not that I don't like him, it's just that he's kinda creepy. A dude with a bird obsession who grabs people from behind and then thrusts off of them is a complete no-no in mybooks. Eww.

tedward2000 · Jan 24, 2009

Da-D-Mon-109 said:
I know that all the characters that I listed were fun. If I didn't like them, I probably wouldn't consider playing with them. I used to surprize my friends by owning with Mario. I got trough Starfox Assault and Command, and I gaind new respect for him (despite me use to being uber with Falco, ever since using him to beat event match 51).

Mario wasnt in Starfox Assault. XD But we get what you mean (context clues for those who dont get what you meant or what I mean)

And naw, your just passionate for lucario! Theres nothing wrong with that.
There's no hating from us, we dont flaming here on the lucario board.

So keep with cario, and if he fits so much, then dont even worry about an Alt.
There once was a old Lucario chat saying, "Any time spent training on another character, is wasted time,".
-t2

phi1ny3 · Jan 24, 2009

Da-D-Mon-109 said:
I know that all the characters that I listed were fun. If I didn't like them, I probably wouldn't consider playing with them. I used to surprize my friends by owning with Mario. I got trough Starfox Assault and Command, and I gaind new respect for him (despite me use to being uber with Falco, ever since using him to beat event match 51). I like Pit because I can give him his black outfit and pretend to be Sephiroth, the Evil Angel-only I have 2 WINGS! MUHAHA! Kirby was a demon in the first Smash Bros, and I still like him, although I wish his attacks used more of his other copy abilities (like his dash used to use Fire). I never got into Marth and Roy (although I'd pretend I was a Super Sayain with Roy's Flare Blade and Yellow Armor), but I tried Ike and got surprized at the speed and power he possesses. And Sonic? I'm one of the few people who has loved Sonic in every one of his games (except for how ******** the screen can get in Secret Rings), and I will always love using the Blue Blur. Zelda I tried once at a random tournament, and I was surprized that I won with relative ease. Shiek is good for when power won't cut it. Samus was an origonal of mine, who I coud easily use (and who reminded me of Frieza so that's a plus). And Zero Suit Samus is notonly a huge challenge to fight afte being destroyed by Samus, but she is also uber sexy, and the whip appeals to my Adhd. And despite what people say about him, I don't see Metaknight as rigged. Being lightweight, incredibly dedicated to his move set, and low priority comboes are what keeps him from being immortal. So I'm not totally ashamed in using him. To be honest, I only like him 'cause he's so Epic. KNOW MY POWER! BEHOLD! FIGHT ME! COME BACK WHEN YOU CAN PUT UP A FIGHT! He's awesome, you have to admit that.

But honestly, Lucario is someone who fits my playing style like a glove.... any mistake an enemy makes, he's the type of person who can usually capitalize on it perfectly. Need to come back at the last second, nd he's usually one who can turn the tide of battle. He's like a friggin Jedi. And I need to know who his apprentice should be, out of those that I have stated, that way I don't need to spend the several years it has taken me to master a new person, or if I do need to, I can start right away. And I'd prefer it if it wasn't someone who's just picked because they are high-tier, because I personally think Tiers are over rated. I just need a partner to him who can nturally fight well with him, and beat up anyone who takes advantage of his weakesses (which seems to mainly consist of his bad and predictable approach, and no stats that are exactly high compared to ayone else (except for power, once his aura activates), which makes me consider Sonic).

I'm sorry if I'm being annoying or anything. If I'm being that much of an issue you guys can report me and close the thread and get me banned and everything. I just want to know what I can't seem to grasp while fighting lvl 9 computers, or from the poor kids that challenge me at my school. I have to get ready for actual tournaments and actual fighters. I HAVE TO BECOME STRONGER! THE AURA IS WITH ME! RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRR!

This comes third in all the epic monologues/speeches on the lucario boards, behind Bloodhawk's essay, SCIENCE! edition which is the most epic, followed by Bloodhawk's unedited essay, then this. We don't flame, we are already the most pyro-prone character in Brawl, it's obvious we don't need the bad kind of flame in these here parts (cue western *Riding towards the sunset* sort of music).

Da-D-Mon-109 · Jan 24, 2009

I'm a very complex person. If the messages you could send were a little more detailed (or If I could do them right), then I'd have page long monologues.

Give me a good enough subject, and I can talk for years. I gave a pretty good one about having another vote on MetaKnight's legality, on a thread talking about needing one because of the SBR being cleaned out. I was against it, but I actually expressed good views, despite being "new" to Brawl.

Da-D-Mon-109 · Jan 24, 2009

Plus I thought that MetaKnight would be the most burnable board, because of all of the newb populus getting tired of not having to do anything to play and still losing to him, as well as the others that damage the name of the fighter behind the mask.

|RK| · Jan 24, 2009

Da-D-Mon-109 said:
Lucario is someone who fits my playing style like a glove.... any mistake an enemy makes, he's the type of person who can usually capitalize on it perfectly. Need to come back at the last second, nd he's usually one who can turn the tide of battle. He's like a friggin Jedi.

He IS! Hence, I gave him the "Start with Beam Sword" sticker in SSE. Oh, and the Lucario vs Meta-Knight (Vader voice) fight w/ a beam sword? Yah.

But what I've noticed is this board is really friendly (Lucario's). They're like a family here. No flaming, spamming. Don't be afraid to ask questions, we like helping.

EDIT: As for Meta-Knight being banned, I don't think he should. He isn't unstoppable. Plus it's good to have a challenge, no?

Milln · Jan 24, 2009

Lucario toasts your bread as he slices it.

With his chest spike.

Ilucamy · Jan 25, 2009

.................................

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................

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Okay, you know what, that's too tiring, I'll do ario later....

Choose

she's fun to use.

also covers most of

's bad matchups
You can always use

too, he doesn't have bad matchups.
I just wanted to make use of the faces :laugh:

DON'T DISS

or he will

punch you!

lol @ :milln:
......milln should have his own face.... >_>

tedward2000 · Jan 25, 2009

Because MacGyver made lucario's spikes, so of course theres a toaster ability in there, along with cutter, aura generator, personal anti-hug, Neon rave light, fusion combustion engines and can opener. All in those little Spikes!
-t2

* fixed because of lack of fusion combustion engines.

Milln · Jan 25, 2009

Lucario throws SWEET RAVE PARTIES.

MacGyver knew what he was doing. You forgot about the fusion combustion engines.

phi1ny3 · Jan 25, 2009

But Bill Nye genetically engineered him, giving his emotive cognation a synthetic discharge that collects around him by which he fights. aka, SCIENCE! Though I will say that MacGyver made the sweetest accessories that not only enable bio-formed appliances like toasters, but also included but not limited to (I mean, we don't know all that's in the configuration sequences): rave lights, fusion combustion engines, can opener, and lag eliminator for those annoying LCD screens with like 5 or so frames of lag. They also make for brutal backhand attacks, and anti-hug devices. Indeed, they are "little beauties".

Aurasmash14 · Feb 3, 2009

phi1ny3 said:
But Bill Nye genetically engineered him, giving his emotive cognation a synthetic discharge that collects around him by which he fights. aka, SCIENCE! Though I will say that MacGyver made the sweetest accessories that not only enable bio-formed appliances like toasters, but also included but not limited to (I mean, we don't know all that's in the configuration sequences): rave lights, fusion combustion engines, can opener, and lag eliminator for those annoying LCD screens with like 5 or so frames of lag. They also make for brutal backhand attacks, and anti-hug devices. Indeed, they are "little beauties".

umm isnt this getting out of topic? :laugh:

oh well.... i like the way this community goes... improving lucario with some laughs along the way :laugh:

Milln · Feb 3, 2009

Aurasmash14 said:
umm isnt this getting out of topic? oh well.... i like the way this community goes... improving lucario with some laughs along the way

MacGyver, Bill Nye, and Emmett Brown as well as anything involving Lucario's spikes are all on topic and PERTINENT to Lucario's meta game.

This is a far cry from the Luca Boards of ye olde.

Aurasmash14 · Feb 3, 2009

Infi-tan said:
MacGyver, Bill Nye, and Emmett Brown as well as anything involving Lucario's spikes are all on topic and PERTINENT to Lucario's meta game.

This is a far cry from the Luca Boards of ye olde.

lucario boards of ye olde? :laugh:

what were we all serious then? :laugh:

mind you i may have just joined recently but i have been around for quite sometime. in fact it was you (well your guide at least) that convinced me to join up.and how exactly is lucarios chest spike a toaster? :laugh:

*sigh* i love this site

Milln · Feb 3, 2009

Aurasmash14 said:
lucario boards of ye olde? what were we all serious then?mind you i may have just joined recently but i have been around for quite sometime. in fact it was you (well your guide at least) that convinced me to join up.and how exactly is lucarios chest spike a toaster?*sigh* i love this site

Heck no. We spammed and got off topic in 4 posts or less and still got stuff done. Lucario's chest spike is a toaster because he is a BEAST.

Aurasmash14 · Feb 3, 2009

just a question Milln. what do you think of a thread that lists the sweetspots and sourspots of lucario's moves? good idea or bad idea? or is it just redundant?if anyone else can also please answer the question? its better to have multiple thoughts.

Milln · Feb 3, 2009

Aurasmash14 said:
just a question Milln. what do you think of a thread that lists the sweetspots and sourspots of lucario's moves? good idea or bad idea? or is it just redundant?

Only move of Lucario's that have sweetspots are Fsmash, dash attack, and Utilt. A topic like that isn't really necessary. *woof*

Aurasmash14 · Feb 3, 2009

Infi-tan said:
Only move of Lucario's that have sweetspots are Fsmash, dash attack, and Utilt. A topic like that isn't really necessary. *woof*

thanks a lot for that info Milln. that really saved me from a lot of trouble.

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