• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

Paranormalsin

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
998
Location
Springfield Ohio
lol, I used to have the same issue, but the other way around. I could only moonwalk to the right, but couldn't do it at all to the left. However, now I can do it absolutely fine in both directions. It really is just practice. Just keep trying it, and try to understand what you do that makes it work in one direction, then try to mimic in the other. There really isn't any pointers to give about it, if you already can do it.
right, ive tried mimicing it many times, ive spent ours, maybe even up to 24hours trying it, and i guess it could be the fact that i have a small mental issue. i have the tendancy (if i can do it right) to do it the way i know how all the time. it takes a ton of work, and i mean litteraly 1ton J, to get me to do something different and i fear that i might mess up my moonwalking to the left. i was kinda hoping for some round about way of doing it like "if you tilt your controller to the left and hit A twenty times then try the moonwalk you can do it just fine" type of ordeal xD
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
6,066
Location
Sunnyvale, CA
The first thing that annoyed me was when it was on FD, and whenever I'd UpB to recover, he'd be somewhere in between the middle of the stage and the ledge where I'm recovering and using his needles(No jumping needles, just standing there and throwing them).
Yeah this doesn't work, the best advice I can give is to try to reverse upB, even if you use your regular upB and eat a needle to get close to the stage, do that and then DI in and do your best to sweetspot with a reverse upB, CF can go surprisingly far down and still grab the ledge, and needles won't hit you.

FD is a good stage vs Sheik, once you get better at the matchup you'll see that her without platforms is a blessing.

The second thing that got to me was I could literally never hit a knee on his Shiek.
Yeah Sheik is a pain in the ***, obvious knees will either be ftilted or shieldgrabbed as you pointed out.

What you need to do (and you're going to need to do this A LOT in Melee in general) is work on being smarter and finding openings. Sheiks that jump can get hit, Sheiks that don't jump (like this one) will not get hit by many of your aerials at all.

Find out what she does vs your running approaches. Some Sheiks will just ftilt at you no matter what you do, others will grab, and some tend to shield a lot. You can punish all of these things if they are predictable, that's the good news.

vs ftilt, you can run and shield out of your run, block the ftilt and then you have decisions to make from there. Generally she will just ftilt again, over and over. Learn to wavedash out of shield, close the gap, DI down (in shield) and mash A, you'll get the shieldgrab. If they do tricky **** like jabs and dsmash you can either roll away or even dair/knee the dsmash with the right spacing/timing.

Nair out of shield is a good idea if you know another ftilt isn't coming, but even then sometimes it will hit her. You need to be REALLY fast though, i.e. know the shieldstun ftilt gives you, jump asap, then hit A as fast as you can.

If a Sheik grabs at you when you run at them then dashdance in front of her and of course she'll whiff a grab. Dashdance is very good in general to just figure out what other people are doing, make them get nervous and keep pressure on them (just by running towards them), and lots of opponents will just be overwhelmed if your spacing is good. When they make a mistake (read: do anything) you can usually punish.

If you jump in and they shield, then try just jumping and not attacking. Every once in a while it's cool to see how effective NOTHING is. Vs opponents that shieldgrab a lot you can usually short hop in, fastfall behind them, and dash dance around their shield. Many people will roll away, spot dodge, or do something equally stupid considering you really never even planned on attacking. You can of course punish a predicted dodge/roll.

This is a big part of Cactuar's ridiculous mind****ing style. Stand near shielding opponents and wait for them to make a mistake. Options out of shield are limited, and people rarely choose good ones. He will typically dashdance away and grab if they aerial towards him OOS, hit them if they jump straight up or away from him, or grab if they dodge/roll.

Basically the moral of the story is:
-don't be predictable
-use your brain even if you don't want to
-wait for your opportunities

Just don't be the first to act and you'll be okay. And as always, more experience vs Sheik = you being better at the matchup. Try new things, try old things in unconventional ways, do stupid **** in friendlies, and work what you learn into your overall playstyle.
 

PolMex23

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
2,536
Location
Passion Central
HOLLA AT NESS NOOOOOOOB!!!!!!!!!!!!

My boi, im trainin. Tech skill needs to be much better.


Beautiful come back an sexy placiong dude good ****.

Next time no crafty pickachu willl get you...but Pikachad is good. Lozr good too.

Good **** against Rock Crock xD
 

DrewB008

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 9, 2005
Messages
1,915
Location
Barrington, IL/Cincinnati, OH
gooey banana: get hit by a needle,up b high into the middle of the stage, get hit, and be alive. practice sweetspotting, but if you cant do it and the pressures on dont be afraid to just get on the stage
 

NES n00b

Smash Master
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
4,272
Location
Oxford, Mississippi. . . . permanent n00b
HOLLA AT NESS NOOOOOOOB!!!!!!!!!!!!

My boi, im trainin. Tech skill needs to be much better.


Beautiful come back an sexy placiong dude good ****.

Next time no crafty pickachu willl get you...but Pikachad is good. Lozr good too.

Good **** against Rock Crock xD
Thanks man. Sexy falcons mains all dai. ^_^

Scar better go to show me your moves nine so I can show what Atlantic South falcons are all about. Lots of sexy.

Edit: I should stop making posts that are this smug. v_v deflating head powers go I suck.
 

PolMex23

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
2,536
Location
Passion Central
Dude your awsome man mad tech but also you adapt really good i saw you. Ddint adapt fast enough against pikachad but pika is gay against captain xD
 

mild or spicy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
30
Location
tangancicuaro, mexico
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik2F1Ubc_xE

i'm less comfortable than i used to be vs samus, help me get it back
sh uair is better when samus is on platform cuz it could lead to **** combo's.

you seem to double jump into an aerial after you hit samus to the ground and are waiting for the tech/roll but to me that seems like you are afraid to mess up. keep the pressure and don't be afraid to stomp twice cuz that samus wasnt teching.

if you wiff a nair and the opponent is approaching jab is a good follow up.

remember that samus has that super broken wavedash back fsmash and you fell into that trap.

you have to be patient at the edge when edgeguarding samus, don't use that edge jump thing cuz its useless. a back air wouldve been more viable at 2:25.

It seems as if you were just a little nervous.

kehpri did an awesome job at keeping the pressure on ihavespaceballs at event 52. I really wish I had recorded that set. he counter picked mutecity and the cars almost killed though him lol.

dont take my advice though cuz i suck.
 

DrewB008

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 9, 2005
Messages
1,915
Location
Barrington, IL/Cincinnati, OH
i watched khepri vs spaceballs at e52, i played spaceballs right after that and barely lost

i think khepri did better than me though because he played more patiently rather than kept the pressure on, samus has great defensive options and not many offensive ones, generally i think i play too offensive vs her and get cc'd and up b'd too much

yeah generally my jumps from the ledge are intended to be ledgehops but i hit jump too fast
 

ac_burito

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
361
Location
west lafayette
i'm less comfortable than i used to be vs samus, help me get it back
yeah man me too cc-->dsmash gets me everytime the range of that move is so deceptive.

i was wondering if any of you guys have any advice on using c. falcon on teams and also for someone who is starting to implement wavelanding and empty short hops. i know its really general and such a noob question but any help would be awesome
 

Kike_Ichigo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Messages
56
For Teams I dont know too much... but I know that C. Falcon is Offensive so... you need too keep attacking (be Carefull with you partner) and go with the LifeKeeper (In the Teams battle sometimes 1 of them will keep lifes for reborn)... well you have too kill the LifeKeeper... for have lees chance too lead your Oponents for reborn...

Someone have any advices for Peachs? I dont know why but for me that´s is the Hardest Match Up cause I dont know how the Hell hit her... cause most of the Time I Get ShieldGrabbed or D-Smashed (for Quote... The Peach that Im talking about is 100% deffensive.... she doesnt move in all the battle... at least for ShieldGrab me or... for Hit me... and then she move... but in the rest of the Battle She just keep stay there in the Platform...) please somebody helpme >_<
 

DrewB008

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 9, 2005
Messages
1,915
Location
Barrington, IL/Cincinnati, OH
for teams you really need to be kind of defensive in most matchups, falcon doesnt have the consistent fast moves and defensive options that allow him to really get into the mess like space animals and sheik. on bigger levels, you can go after someone more while your teammate occupies the other one, so long as you can do a decent job separating the other team. honestly falcon struggles in teams, hes working less and less well for me as i go on and i find myself using sheik without even really practicing her often

peach is a tougher matchup for falcon than a lot of people think, shes got a lot of priority and can chaingrab you, and has no lag. youre going to have to be ready for her defensive options and punish her for them, so get an idea of when she shields, rolls, or spot dodges and either grab, stomp, or knee her when shes open. slow falled short hop stomp works on peach while shes dsmashing, but you have to totally know shes gonna do it ahead of time. when you get a grab, up throw uair at low %'s then start dthrow kneeing later. if you can get her above you go for uairs like crazy, the best she can do is trade her dair with you and thats totally worth it.
 

_kSo_

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 4, 2006
Messages
3,537
Location
Los Angeles, CA
peach is a tougher matchup for falcon than a lot of people think, shes got a lot of priority and can chaingrab you, and has no lag. youre going to have to be ready for her defensive options and punish her for them, so get an idea of when she shields, rolls, or spot dodges and either grab, stomp, or knee her when shes open. slow falled short hop stomp works on peach while shes dsmashing, but you have to totally know shes gonna do it ahead of time. when you get a grab, up throw uair at low %'s then start dthrow kneeing later. if you can get her above you go for uairs like crazy, the best she can do is trade her dair with you and thats totally worth it.
Big D this paragraph made a lot of things clearer to me. I had been doing these things naturally by copying what people do in videos, but now that I have written confirmation, I feel more confident in my play style against peach.

We should record falcon dittos at JAB 1
 

demodemo

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
711
Location
Mrs.sauga, Canada
i saw that design somewhere on the internet awhile ago, never knew it would look so good on a shirt haha

i dont think this would be very hard to make, just find some random custom tee site
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
6,066
Location
Sunnyvale, CA
Yeah I need that shirt.

Big D, something I've noticed about Samus is that she has no defense from an attack coming straight down on her. None of her tilts punish dair approaches, dsmash doesn't work, cc doesn't work, the best she can do is wavedash away but the nature of the dair approach is that it hits pretty much everywhere and you always land behind the person anyways.

Honestly if you ever have the chance in friendlies, even vs a good samus player, try to beat him with only dair. You'll figure out when it works and when it doesn't, and since mid% dairs are pretty much the most reliable way to knee her it's pretty important even if you aren't going to approach with it.

Also remember that you can punish almost anything she hits your shield with with knee (I'm sure you knew that), edgeguarding her should be really easy, vs bomb recovery drop down dj bair is an amazing edgeguard, you can even just destroy her bombs with it if you are a jerk and still have invincibility frames. Other edgeguards include just holding the ledge until she grapples and then punishing the **** out of her down there (drop, dj uair, recover).

Samus is really bad, keep the pressure on her and as soon as you hit her you can ****. Of course if she gets you offstage you die, so be wary of low% dsmashes and your DI vs them, just don't get caught offstage and make sure you're not approaching with nair, dair is way better and knee is even better than nair in this matchup, especially vs cc-able %s.
 

DrewB008

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 9, 2005
Messages
1,915
Location
Barrington, IL/Cincinnati, OH
i dunno about attacks coming straight down on her, unless shes in the air thats a free shield up b for her i would think, and, not to nitpick, but when i use her i use uair whenever people go above me and it works really well. ill try that out more but i just cant really picture it that well

yeah i need to work on punishing people for hitting my shield, i choke in those situations a lot
 

JonaDiaper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
2,138
Location
Port Chester, New York
lol samus is terrrible, you can approach with nair just make sure you space it so you just hit with the tips of your feet and go away from her immediately... dairs are good because theyll lead into a grab at early percents when there cc'd. if you raptor boost and its cc'd put your shield up and shield grab cuz they will most like do attack get up move thingy. then down throw and try to follow up from there..
 

DrewB008

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 9, 2005
Messages
1,915
Location
Barrington, IL/Cincinnati, OH
so i tried messing around with dair and it works sometimes but its not really game changing or anything, at least not for me. i just need to combo better more than anything else i think

jona, youre not approaching with nair if youre backing away with it, those are 2 different situations. approaching with nair just about always leaves you susceptible to a cc dsmash, the only decent situation is when theyre in the middle of the level and you can go way through them

i really dont think its as easy of a matchup as you guys seem to think. i havent seen much to really show me that falcon really ***** samus so much as slightly beats her, and everybody slightly beats samus so she deals with that all the same. maybe im just bad at it, i dunno
 

JonaDiaper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
2,138
Location
Port Chester, New York
lol you aproach with nair but you di back son, are you sure you play falcon? lol

you cant do it running full force but if you run up, wd, shffl the nair but di back youll be fine...

thats still approaching to me at least
 

DrewB008

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 9, 2005
Messages
1,915
Location
Barrington, IL/Cincinnati, OH
eh kinda, but thats not really useful at that point because samus most likely isnt going to approach you. i still do it all the time in other matchups though, and sort of ok vs samus, but it wont work very well vs good ones
 

_kSo_

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 4, 2006
Messages
3,537
Location
Los Angeles, CA
lol you aproach with nair but you di back son, are you sure you play falcon? lol

you cant do it running full force but if you run up, wd, shffl the nair but di back youll be fine...

thats still approaching to me at least
I'm pretty sure if you hit with both hits of the nair, you can't DI away quick enough before the cc'ing samus dsmashes you. That attack has a boatload of range.

I usually nair behind the shield. or implement the Trail games.
 

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
3,186
Location
Göteborg, Sweden
^^Maybe the nair approach can work vs samus if you fast fall between the 2 hits so that the second hit connects just before you hit the ground, followed by dashing away asap? If you space it right it should work.
But that requires VERY precise spacing & timing. And this type of spacing also requires you to have (almost) no momentum in the jump, which decreases the range in a way.
Dair just feels safer/better in general vs someone who's CC:ing

Scar: Hugs said in the samus boards that samus has the advantage over falcon in that matchup. I know you've played with him, do you know why he thinks samus has the advantage? And what do you think of this matchup?
 

Rehu

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
2
Location
Behind my GCN
Hey guys,

Reading through this thread has helped me alot and usually my questions were already answered earlier by you. Though there are still some things I don't know, but I'm sure you can help me out:

1. How should i space my nairs?
I know nair is a great approach move, but how should i space it? I don't mean that you should hit with the tip of your feet, but rather when to time it. Should I sh and nair late to connect both hits, or nair at the peak of the sh and hit only with the 2nd hit very close to the ground? I've been shieldgrabbed often when trying to hit with both feet (since I have to DI back to still hit with the tip of his feet) but is that because of improper spacing or the lack of fastfall? The latter option is safer to me, but does that harm my play? It might be situational, but I'm sure you guys know it better than me.

2. In the Sheik matchup, what is the most viable throw at which %s?
If they DI the Dthrow away, I can't seem to follow it up. Due to her long techroll it's even harder (they'll most likely tech). Uthrow on very low % is nice, but as % increases it will get harder. She's able to dj, nair or fair me because the hitstun isn't long enough. At mid to high % Uthrow is nice, but what should I do on the low %? Should I leave grabs and go for Dair instead?

3. In the Peach matchup, what is the most viable throw at which %s?
Drew answered this already, but can you Uthrow > Knee on peach like you can on both marth and sheik? And peach can't outprioritize your uair with dair, nair or fair, right?

I hope you guys are willing to answer my questions. Thank you in advance.

P.S.: My English is kinda stuck-up huh :embarrass
P.P.S.: My bad for the Brawl Falcon avatar, working on it ^^
 

JonaDiaper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
2,138
Location
Port Chester, New York
you shouldnt have to delay hitting the a button for a nair, do it right away and fast fall it depending on the size of the character your playing. in other words do everything right away, only ff'ing should be a variable. if your worried about being shield grabbed the nair past them, hit them with the first leg and just fly by them, either that or buffer a roll as soon as you land from the nair in front of them. thats all i can think of.

if the sheik DI's the throws away at early%, up throw and you can grab her again. make sure you jc the grab. or you probly wont catch her.

vs peach d throw is probly always the best, i dont think you can upthrow>knee but you can d throw knee at higher percents.
 
Top Bottom