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Zero Suit Samus Matchup (Finished: thanks to Esam and Ussi)

gallax

Smash Hero
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Apr 2, 2008
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Orlando(UCF), Fl
Zero Suit Samus



General Discussion

Soon to Come

Pika's Advantages

1) Small- harder to hit
2) A better projectile
3) Awesome recovery

Pika's Disadvantages

1) Lightweight- easier to kill
2) Outranged

Strategy for Winning


Range and approaching


This match-up is weird for approaching. We have a better projectile that can be used better, but her projectile cancels out ours. but you can jump up and get the tjolf to hit over th blaster which is a good thing. Another good thing is that ZSS cannot move while usng her blaster. We can.

Also, ZSS has MUCH more range than pikachu. This will make actually getting inside to ZSS really difficult. Also, once you get inside, you have to worry about a 1 frame jab and a 4 frame u-tilt (which has deceptively large range, so watch out) Your Fair to u-tilt will help a lot in this matchup to get her off of the ground and above you (You should always try to get under her) ZSS will mostly try to Forward B close space to you, or just dash near you and dash attack. If you don't react OOS fast enough, ZSS will get a jab or u-tilt, which will lead to you being knocked away with jab (a good 8-9%) or above her (ZSS loves when her opponents are above her. QAC will get you basically nowhere against a good ZSS. U-tilt OOS wrecks QAC so hard its not even funny. Also, since for some reason QA makes your hitbox bigger than pikachu, you could get hit by D-smashes which starts the comboing (Will elaborate on comboes later)

Grabbing ZSS

ZSS CANNOT be chaingrabbed on a flat surface, she can Down-B out of it. However, you can get the F-throw to U-smash till about 20% (after throw) so you should rely on that for early %s. If you see a upward slant, CG her away, she can't down-b out of it. Neither players grabs can be utilized that effectively. D-throw comboes for ZSS don't really work, you can Airdodge out of them. However, watch for air chases that follow up with a uair and start the annoyingness of comboes.

****You can now buffer a dash to fthrow cg ZSS till around 47% damage*****

Her armor

At the beginning of every match, ZSS starts with 3 pieces of armor. Normally, the first 2 are thrown away, and she will use 1 piece to attack you with. The #1 priority for you is to GET THE ARMOR AWAY. ZSS players are determined by skill in their armor use. Countless times have I tried to use the armor back at my brother, but been punished for giving it back (1 stock deficit at the beginning of a match, imagine it) Her downward glide toss can be soo aggrevating because she can follow it up with a grab to back throw into it, or just use it as a distractionary technique and start comboing you. ALso, she may drop it above you and fall with an attack to add shield pressure. If the armor doesn't hit you or your shield, it remains a hitbox until it stops bouncing around. Beware and get that crap off of the level as fast as you can. The better the ZSS, the better the armor control and conservation.

ZSS + Combos

ZSS's comboability is 2nd to none in this game, she is THE BEST comboer. Her U-air, Up-b, Neutral B (Stun gun) D-smash (Stun SMash) all make her the best comboing character in brawl. A really basic, but deadly combo for ZSS is D-smash (x2) to fair. If both hits of the fair landed, you took around 45-50% fresh. THe main thing you will need to watch out for if you don't wanna get comboes it her D-smash, This leaves you stunned for about 1 1/3 seconds and allows ZSS to follow up with ANYTHING. A grab, u-tilt, Foward B, Bair, Down-b (will elaborate later)a 2nd D-smash to anything said above. After the D-smash you will pop out with stun time that you cannot airdodge out of, so you will get hit with bairs, fairs, or forward B. Pikachu's comboes on the other hand don't work too well on her because of her Down-B. It starts with invulnerability frames, and if you are persistent and go after her, she can use the attack and hit you for about 13% with decent knockback.

Hanging on the ledge

One thing that Zamus can do at the edge if you are hit with a D-smash is Down-B spike you. It is deadly at higher %s, and it happens to me a lot if I'm not at high enough %s for a bair or forward B to kill me. On stages like smashville and Battlefield, ZSS can also D-smash to stage spiked Bair, which can be VERY irritating.


Recovering versus ZSS

When recovering against ZSS, your best option is to go low. However, don't loiter on the ledges too long, or you will be smacked with some D-smashes. ZSS can't really edgeguard pikachu unless she jumps out and forward-Bs you near the magnifyer (It can happen, trust me) On the other hand, the ZSS will try to get to the level as high as possible. ZSS has the best tether recovery of all the characters in the game, and it is surprisingly hard to gimp her. Smart ZSS conserive their DJ and Down-b for near the end, and it can make gimping quite a task. Also, if you try to ledge hog, she can hit you with her up-b and bring you down with her, and maybe she will have the chance to grab it again. Also, she can Footstool you from her Down B if you are trying to ledgeguard her.

Killing


ZSS has pretty good recovery, gimping her in impossible but just plain edge hogging won't work. Only when her ONLY option is to Up B is she very easy to gimp but with her down B to foot stool and extended Up B jump (Similiar to Marth's side B, Luigi's tornado, etc) and just her plain good mid air jump she doesn't need to rely on Up B too much besides when its obvious you won't be there to edgehog. Side Note, Side B WILL tether onto the edge as well, so she'll be trying to hit you out with Side B and if she doesn't she'll grab the ledge. Just kill plain out anyways.

Pikachu is small so it makes it easier to dodge ZSS. Make sure you DI unpredictable out of stun so she doesn't always follow you, cause bair really hurts >_<..

Uair, bair, 2nd hit Fair, side B all have potential to kill. Its not super strong but for a light weight its **** good. Kills Pikachu by 110-120% Side B would kill but its more used for spacing so it doesn't kill till like 130-140% 2nd Hit fair is hard to land at higher percents since the first hit knocks anyone away too far.




Helpful Video's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtG3Es0vlUg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dC8sugbBBA


Overall Matchup

50:50
 

Ussi

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Armor pieces in the beginning are annoying however Pikachu has the speed to either avoid and/or take advantage of them. Lots of ZSS throw the 2 of the 3 items down (Before they throw the last one at you) so if you are good at intercepting an item in the air via air dodge then go for it and throw it at them or away. (Which ever floats your boat and gives you least hurt in a long run) I tend to throw away at least one cause the ZSS normally knows item battling better than us since we lack items normally.


Watch out for side B, however it only is long range and short range. It has no hitbox in the middle of it. The shield stun in the short is minimal so very punishable if You screwed over ZSS's spacing getting in that close. But it is a SPACING move so she'll be using it to strike from far away. Use your speed to close the distance. Be careful though, ZSS has a 1 frame jab, but its pointless after the first or 2nd hit as you can shield then and counter attack/grab.

ZSS has pretty good recovery, gimping her in impossible but just plain edge hogging won't work. Only when her ONLY option is to Up B is she very easy to gimp but with her down B to foot stool and extended Up B jump (Similiar to Marth's side B, Luigi's tornado, etc) and just her plain good mid air jump she doesn't need to rely on Up B too much besides when its obvious you won't be there to edgehog. Side Note, Side B WILL tether onto the edge as well, so she'll be trying to hit you out with Side B and if she doesn't she'll grab the ledge. Just kill plain out anyways.

Pikachu is small so it makes it easier to dodge ZSS. Make sure you DI unpredictable out of stun so she doesn't always follow you, cause bair really hurts >_<..

Uair, bair, 2nd hit Fair, side B all have potential to kill. Its not super strong but for a light weight its **** good. Kills Pikachu by 110-120% Side B would kill but its more used for spacing so it doesn't kill till like 130-140% 2nd Hit fair is hard to land at higher percents since the first hit knocks anyone away too far.

Beware of the down B spike, kills even if you are the ground too (reasonable killing power).

Tjolt can be aimed over the blaster. Otherwise they clank. Pikachu can move while tjolting, ZSS can't move while using blaster. She can SH while Blastering though. It can be charged to stun longer.

ZSS is vertically lighter than Pikachu and lives 4% better horizontally. (wtf?!?! Eat some more ZSS, you're a little over 13 pounds[Pikachu's game weight]??)

Since ZSS is tall, it's not hard to combo her, but her down B gets her out of lots of situations.

50/50

ESAM care to tell us what your brother has taught you about this match up?
 

M15t3R E

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Ah, the beautiful but dangerous type. I have had the pleasure to play people from the ZZS board in November and also watch Snakeee **** in three tournaments thus far.

What you need to know is that ZSS can, and will try to, outspace you at all times.
What is the solution to this? Stay IN HER FACE.
Pikachu is a nimble creature and you must make good use of his mobility to come out on top in this fight.
Things to know: ZZS will do a lot of backward jump + side B's. You should never let this hit you.
When that doesn't work, she'll resort to her neutral B to stun you so that she can then hit you with a side B. This should also never hit you.
Approach her by air. Use t-jolts as you approach. Approach quickly. When you are in close range, you've got the edge. Now stay at her. You are limiting her options to outspace, outrange, and grab.
In the air, you've got the clear advantage over her unless you are directly above her.
She is very light (almost as light as Pikachu!), but can be juggled easily. In this fight, you should see ZZS constantly retreating to regain her ideal spacing. Don't let that happen. Chase after her and you should be able to get in many grabs. If you push the ZZS to play differently, expect some jab canceling. Always expect those and be prepared to shieldgrab.
Last thing, she has no reflector. That should be obvious but it's nice to know.

I'd call this between 55/45 to 60/40 Pikachu. It's not a tough fight if you can stay in close range of her.
 

Ussi

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One last note, Pikachu's dair has greater priority than Zamus's Usmash and Up B and will literally CUT thru her whip. I have done this in battle myself so I know for sure.

Mister E I think the numbers are a bit off. Its pretty even and saying something should never is wrong, maybe rarely but they aren't super punishable what she is doing. As long as it's safe its a good option for her to use on us. don't forget Zamus isn't horrible up close with a 1 FRAME jab. Excellent interrupt move and easily induces REACTION lag.. thus letting her follow up with d/utilt. Sure you can shield it but that's only if ZSS is doing the full combo.
 

M15t3R E

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I was just pointing out that Pikachu can avoid the side B and neutral B's easily. It shouldn't hit you much, if ever.
And I did note the jabs and jab canceling. I didn't forget that.
This match-up, if you know what you're doing, should be slightly in your favor. Likely 55/45 Pikachu's favor.
 

Ussi

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Pikachu can avoid her side B and blaster probably better than most. Small frame and an UpB to move quickly away and fast running speed. They all add up.

But ZSS has range... And some moves cover a lot of area (fsmash does but most ZSSs don't use it. Too laggy afterwards)

I can see 55/45 but ZSS can keep up with Pikachu with her blistering speed.


BIG BIG BIG EDIT:

If the ZSS you are fighting has a BIG tendency to dsmash twice EVEN IF YOU BLOCK THE FIRST ONE!! You have enough time to fsmash OUT OF SHIELD before her 2nd dsmash I've done it a lot in battle. So ZSS better not have a habit of doing dsmash twice or she is gonna get punished with a 20% hitting move
 

ph00tbag

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I can say that the primary thing I have the most trouble against LD PK, whose Pikachu I get to play from time to time, is with Thunder Jolt. Use this move to control ZSS's movement. I also get thrown off by dair oos, which seems odd, but dair has that little technical crouch in its landing lag, and most of ZSS's means for punishing shield pressure (utilt and uair, eg.) don't reach down there. Staying entirely close range isn't particularly great, though, as ZSS has plenty of tools like dtilt, ftilt, jab and uair out of shield to create distance and possibly start combos.
 

Adapt

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I have only played one pikachu main... and I don't think he used Pikachu to what he is capable of. I don't think I can help out here. I don't really have a lot of trouble avoiding thunder edgeguards though.
 

gallax

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same goes for me. i will play any Zamus on wifi. but we really need ESAM to comment on this. he plays a good zamus all the time...his brother!!!
 

M15t3R E

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*Joins the bandwagon*

I'll play any ZSS as well.

And I have an idea. I'll ask Snakeee to some friendlies in Philly, but not MM's. :laugh:
 

[FBC] ESAM

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I think i have the most ZSS training anybody does. So let me input my info now.

This match-up is weird for approaching. We have a better projectile that can be used better, but her projectile cancels out ours. Also, ZSS has MUCH more range than pikachu. This will make actually getting inside to ZSS really difficult. Also, once you get inside, you have to worry about a 1 frame jab and a 4 frame u-tilt (which has deceptively large range, so watch out) Your Fair to u-tilt will help a lot in this matchup to get her off of the ground and above you (You should always try to get under her) ZSS will mostly try to Forward B close space to you, or just dash near you and dash attack. If you don't react OOS fast enough, ZSS will get a jab or u-tilt, which will lead to you being knocked away with jab (a good 8-9%) or above her (ZSS loves when her opponents are above her. QAC will get you basically nowhere against a good ZSS. U-tilt OOS wrecks QAC so hard its not even funny. Also, since for some reason QA makes your hitbox bigger than pikachu, you could get hit by D-smashes which starts the comboing (Will elaborate on comboes later)

ZSS CANNOT be chaingrabbed on a flat surface, she can Down-B out of it. However, you can get the F-throw to U-smash till about 20% (after throw) so you should rely on that for early %s. If you see a upward slant, CG her away, she can't down-b out of it. Neither players grabs can be utilized that effectively. D-throw comboes for ZSS don't really work, you can Airdodge out of them. However, watch for air chases that follow up with a uair and start the annoyingness of comboes.

At the beginning of every match, ZSS starts with 3 pieces of armor. Normally, the first 2 are thrown away, and she will use 1 piece to attack you with. The #1 priority for you is to GET THE ARMOR AWAY. ZSS players are determined by skill in their armor use. Countless times have I tried to use the armor back at my brother, but been punished for giving it back (1 stock deficit at the beginning of a match, imagine it) Her downward glide toss can be soo aggrevating because she can follow it up with a grab to back throw into it, or just use it as a distractionary technique and start comboing you. ALso, she may drop it above you and fall with an attack to add shield pressure. If the armor doesn't hit you or your shield, it remains a hitbox until it stops bouncing around. Beware and get that crap off of the level as fast as you can. The better the ZSS, the better the armor control and conservation.

ZSS's comboability is 2nd to none in this game, she is THE BEST comboer. Her U-air, Up-b, Neutral B (Stun gun) D-smash (Stun SMash) all make her the best comboing character in brawl. A really basic, but deadly combo for ZSS is D-smash (x2) to fair. If both hits of the fair landed, you took around 45-50% fresh. THe main thing you will need to watch out for if you don't wanna get comboes it her D-smash, This leaves you stunned for about 1 1/3 seconds and allows ZSS to follow up with ANYTHING. A grab, u-tilt, Foward B, Bair, Down-b (will elaborate later)a 2nd D-smash to anything said above. After the D-smash you will pop out with stun time that you cannot airdodge out of, so you will get hit with bairs, fairs, or forward B. Pikachu's comboes on the other hand don't work too well on her because of her Down-B. It starts with invulnerability frames, and if you are persistent and go after her, she can use the attack and hit you for about 13% with decent knockback.

One thing that Zamus can do at the edge if you are hit with a D-smash is Down-B spike you. It is deadly at higher %s, and it happens to me a lot if I'm not at high enough %s for a bair or forward B to kill me. On stages like smashville and Battlefield, ZSS can also D-smash to stage spiked Bair, which can be VERY irritating.

When recovering against ZSS, your best option is to go low. However, don't loiter on the ledges too long, or you will be smacked with some D-smashes. ZSS can't really edgeguard pikachu unless she jumps out and forward-Bs you near the magnifyer (It can happen, trust me) On the other hand, the ZSS will try to get to the level as high as possible. ZSS has the best tether recovery of all the characters in the game, and it is surprisingly hard to gimp her. Smart ZSS conserive their DJ and Down-b for near the end, and it can make gimping quite a task. Also, if you try to ledge hog, she can hit you with her up-b and bring you down with her, and maybe she will have the chance to grab it again. Also, she can Footstool you from her Down B if you are trying to ledgeguard her.

Best stages to CP her are Delfino Plaza and Frigate Orpheon

Overall: 50-50
 

gallax

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hey hey hey!!!!!! ESAM you are the man. which is why this matchup will be posted by "Written mostly by ESAM" on me thread aboe the link to this. I say mostly cuz i like to rewrite things and add more and then do some stuff. but everyone will know you did the hard work. :)
 

Bouse

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50-50.

Thunderguarding can own the tether pretty hard, and at the same time beat out a poorly timed Down+B. However, ZSS' spacing game is intense and not something to **** with. But I guess it would also hing on who is a better camper player-wise. Also, if you QAC into the deadzone of the whip, you can easily get around her spacing game. The problem with this is one inch too close, you could get hit by the weak hitbox on the whip, or too far and you get owned by the tip of the whip. The deadzone is approximately where Pikachu's tail is when standing next to ZSS. Should be enough to get off a nice Nair.

Also, Delfino isn't all that bad of a stage for ZSS. *shrug* Frigate isn't a bad pick, but personally I'd choose Lylat or a stage where the ledges can be lame sometimes. Just to screw with her recovery.
 

[FBC] ESAM

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I'm just saying everything from personal experience with my bro. I win the most on Delfino and Frigate, frigate having more wins.

Also, thunderguarding is less effective than you would think. She can latch on and wait it out if you do it too early, and timing it perfectly is kinda hard considering Zamus can forward-b and up-b the ledge. Also, getting into the deadzone of the whip is too hard to make it practical. ANd either way, if you do get inside to the ZSS, the match is still close.
 

TheRockSays

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let me start out by saying i hate every ****** character in brawl besides kirby >.>.

Pikachu's advantage on ZSS(not Zamus) is close range just like R.O.B, on top of that theres a slight chance of ZSS missing the side b, and her grab which leaves ZSS vulnerable for about 1 second or so. thats the time to capitalize.

ZSS's Advantages Spacing, Armor pieces, air combos and her D-tilt Range is incredible xD.

If u guys had to CP on ZSS i would choose Smashville i myself have problem extending the whip because the platform is a bit smaller then FD. I just feel Cramped also lylat cruise is bad for ZSS because of all the tilting it does and recovering there is more difficult for ZSS yet i would use this stage because its as long as FD and Pika can't spam Neutral b in the air.

CP Against pikachu as A ZSS mainer i would pick battlefield and lylat Cruise to prevent Spamming from on top of me with neutral B.

Thats all i gotta say about this match up i score it 50:50
 

KuroKitt10

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Jan 19, 2009
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ESAM - I'm curious if you have any input on the Suit Game against a ZSS. I've recently started picking her up as my secondary, so I've been learning a little better how to both use and avoid the suit pieces, so my personal inclination is to use her suit against her, rather than just removing it from the game; however, I don't really have any strong ZSS players to play against right now, so I can't really speak for the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of doing this in a match. I was curious what you had to say on this? Can they be used effectively against a ZSS opponent if you know what you're doing? Or will they ALWAYS have the advantage on you?

Meow.
 

KuroKitt10

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Jan 19, 2009
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that really is a question for the ZSS board.
I didn't mean so much WHAT to do with the suit pieces, and more, in his experience, is it ever worth it to try and PLAY the Suit Game against a strong ZSS player - or will they almost always cream you at it, and so it's best to just try and get those pieces off the stage ASAP.

Mreow.
 

canthandletheSpeculosity

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I think i have the most ZSS training anybody does. So let me input my info now.

This match-up is weird for approaching. We have a better projectile that can be used better, but her projectile cancels out ours. Also, ZSS has MUCH more range than pikachu. This will make actually getting inside to ZSS really difficult. Also, once you get inside, you have to worry about a 1 frame jab and a 4 frame u-tilt (which has deceptively large range, so watch out) Your Fair to u-tilt will help a lot in this matchup to get her off of the ground and above you (You should always try to get under her) ZSS will mostly try to Forward B close space to you, or just dash near you and dash attack. If you don't react OOS fast enough, ZSS will get a jab or u-tilt, which will lead to you being knocked away with jab (a good 8-9%) or above her (ZSS loves when her opponents are above her. QAC will get you basically nowhere against a good ZSS. U-tilt OOS wrecks QAC so hard its not even funny. Also, since for some reason QA makes your hitbox bigger than pikachu, you could get hit by D-smashes which starts the comboing (Will elaborate on comboes later)

ZSS CANNOT be chaingrabbed on a flat surface, she can Down-B out of it. However, you can get the F-throw to U-smash till about 20% (after throw) so you should rely on that for early %s. If you see a upward slant, CG her away, she can't down-b out of it. Neither players grabs can be utilized that effectively. D-throw comboes for ZSS don't really work, you can Airdodge out of them. However, watch for air chases that follow up with a uair and start the annoyingness of comboes.

At the beginning of every match, ZSS starts with 3 pieces of armor. Normally, the first 2 are thrown away, and she will use 1 piece to attack you with. The #1 priority for you is to GET THE ARMOR AWAY. ZSS players are determined by skill in their armor use. Countless times have I tried to use the armor back at my brother, but been punished for giving it back (1 stock deficit at the beginning of a match, imagine it) Her downward glide toss can be soo aggrevating because she can follow it up with a grab to back throw into it, or just use it as a distractionary technique and start comboing you. ALso, she may drop it above you and fall with an attack to add shield pressure. If the armor doesn't hit you or your shield, it remains a hitbox until it stops bouncing around. Beware and get that crap off of the level as fast as you can. The better the ZSS, the better the armor control and conservation.

ZSS's comboability is 2nd to none in this game, she is THE BEST comboer. Her U-air, Up-b, Neutral B (Stun gun) D-smash (Stun SMash) all make her the best comboing character in brawl. A really basic, but deadly combo for ZSS is D-smash (x2) to fair. If both hits of the fair landed, you took around 45-50% fresh. THe main thing you will need to watch out for if you don't wanna get comboes it her D-smash, This leaves you stunned for about 1 1/3 seconds and allows ZSS to follow up with ANYTHING. A grab, u-tilt, Foward B, Bair, Down-b (will elaborate later)a 2nd D-smash to anything said above. After the D-smash you will pop out with stun time that you cannot airdodge out of, so you will get hit with bairs, fairs, or forward B. Pikachu's comboes on the other hand don't work too well on her because of her Down-B. It starts with invulnerability frames, and if you are persistent and go after her, she can use the attack and hit you for about 13% with decent knockback.

One thing that Zamus can do at the edge if you are hit with a D-smash is Down-B spike you. It is deadly at higher %s, and it happens to me a lot if I'm not at high enough %s for a bair or forward B to kill me. On stages like smashville and Battlefield, ZSS can also D-smash to stage spiked Bair, which can be VERY irritating.

When recovering against ZSS, your best option is to go low. However, don't loiter on the ledges too long, or you will be smacked with some D-smashes. ZSS can't really edgeguard pikachu unless she jumps out and forward-Bs you near the magnifyer (It can happen, trust me) On the other hand, the ZSS will try to get to the level as high as possible. ZSS has the best tether recovery of all the characters in the game, and it is surprisingly hard to gimp her. Smart ZSS conserive their DJ and Down-b for near the end, and it can make gimping quite a task. Also, if you try to ledge hog, she can hit you with her up-b and bring you down with her, and maybe she will have the chance to grab it aghpain. Also, she can Footstool you from her Down B if you are trying to ledgeguard her.

Best stages to CP her are Delfino Plaza and Frigate Orpheon

Overall: 50-50
Finally, someone who knows what they're talking about in matchup threads.
 

canthandletheSpeculosity

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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478
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Somewhere beyond the sea...
let me start out by saying i hate every ****** character in brawl besides kirby >.>.

Pikachu's advantage on ZSS(not Zamus) is close range just like R.O.B, on top of that theres a slight chance of ZSS missing the side b, and her grab which leaves ZSS vulnerable for about 1 second or so. thats the time to capitalize.

ZSS's Advantages Spacing, Armor pieces, air combos and her D-tilt Range is incredible xD.

If u guys had to CP on ZSS i would choose Smashville i myself have problem extending the whip because the platform is a bit smaller then FD. I just feel Cramped also lylat cruise is bad for ZSS because of all the tilting it does and recovering there is difficult for ZSS yet i would use this stage because its as long as FD and Pika can't spam Neutral b in the air.

CP Against pikachu as A ZSS mainer i would pick battlefield and lylat Cruise to prevent Spamming from on top of me with neutral B.

Thats all i gotta say about this match up i score it 50:50
...:ohwell:

Lylat is a great stage for zss.

double post?
 

Adapt

Smash Lord
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
1,489
Location
NS, Canada
I think he's saying that this is one of the few ppl from another board who knows what they are talking about when comparing their character to ZSS
 

KuroKitt10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
233
Location
Oregon
I think maybe it might be good for everyone if we stopped worrying about who's elite and who's not =/

I don't mean to offend anyone, but it seems like there's a pervading sense of an elite/non-elite dichotomy on the smash boards. I don't think that this kind of attitude, or even responding to this kind of attitude in a hastily hostile manner, are anything BUT detrimental to the brawl community and, in fact, the game itself!

Let's all just try and remain accepting and tolerant of everyone =)

Me-ow!
 

Stealth Raptor

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
15,088
Location
Kansas City, Kansas
sadly that sense of elite and non elite has always been on SWF. its been that way since its inception and will continue that way for all eternity. you would be an 09er to some and they would completely ignore you for it.
 

KuroKitt10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
233
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Oregon
sadly that sense of elite and non elite has always been on SWF. its been that way since its inception and will continue that way for all eternity. you would be an 09er to some and they would completely ignore you for it.
Indeed. Truthfully, and sadly, I think a lot of internet forums are very much the same - especially when you throw into the mix some highly competitive aspect; the anonymity of the tubes, mixed with the high emotional aspect of anything competitive, tends to yield this sort of thing =/

But, just because it's common doesn't necessarily mean that it's a good thing. I think it's those who can act maturely and intelligently on a forum who are the real "elite", and those who cannot which are sub-par. It's always a good thing to keep in mind, and to propagate - and for someone like me who would love to see one of his favorite games flourish, I also would love to see that it's community is a healthy and tolerant one =)

Mew.
 

Ussi

Smash Legend
Joined
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New Jersey (South T_T)
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sadly that sense of elite and non elite has always been on SWF. its been that way since its inception and will continue that way for all eternity. you would be an 09er to some and they would completely ignore you for it.
Am I being ignored for maining Ike..
 

Bouse

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
720
Location
MD
...:ohwell:

Lylat is a great stage for zss.

double post?

The argument is that a tilting stage messes with tether recoveries, so it's a potential counterpick. ZSS doesn't have many bad stages because her recovery is so good. It's probably best to pick a stage you're more comfortable with out of this group.



Bad Stages
1.
Jungle Japes - Your Forward B...it...well you'll see... It's also hard to get kills here, though it's harder for ZSS to be killed upwards too. The one thing I like is that she can down smash- Down B spike if she catches someone in between platforms.
2. Pirate Ship - The shape of the stage is probably the most annoying part. Stay out of the water against characters with good spikes, which are probably the ones that will counterpick here. ZSS' Down B spike can come in handy at times here though.
3. Yoshi's Story - Another stage with a bad shape. The shape causes your attacks to lag and messes up your side B and paralyzer shots. The platform doesn't help too much either because of it's size. It's harder to catch someone on a platform when there's so much room on it.
3. Frigate Orpheon - the platforms on this stage aren't the best, and there's no ledge on one side of the first part. It's still a bit rare to have the missing ledge kill you though, but it definitely can limit your options if you have to recover there. Besides that there isn't too much that hinders ZSS, and it's become a bit laughable how almost everyone seems to counterpick this stage on me. :laugh:
4. Castle Siege - The first part of the stage is kind of bad and doesn't give you much room. And the walk off part and lava part are about neutral because they're long and flat which gives you mostly the same position as FD. The statues in the walk off part are a hinderance for your projectile, yet can also protect you from other projectiles. The platforms there can be useful if you happen to hit someone onto them as you can get a quick kill off the side with a b-air. There's nothing here that particularly helps ZSS, but there's a few negatives, so this is a bit of a bad stage.
4. Lylat Cruise - Again, it's the shape. This is a problem for the same reasons I said in Yoshi's, and the tilting makes that even worse. Still, this stage is useful against certain characters that you don't want to give much room against, including DDD. You can also D-smash a lot of characters while standing on top of the edge platforms.

If you disagree with those, I can't help you.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=155975

Consult this thread for bans/nevercounterpicks.
 

Electric-Sachiel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
85
3DS FC
2337-4294-5850
Well it seems another Pika user has fallen to the power of ZSS. CHeck out the vids below and see how much fail is in my Pikachu.


Maybe it was nervousness or perhaps fatigue i had during these matches but i got crushed bad in these matches against this ZSS user. Does anyone here have any good suggestions on how i can counter ZSS? Aside from what has been mentioned so far.....



Please watch all the videos below before commenting and giving your own opinions.


Behold Exhibit A (Match 1):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amt7BaFwmZM


Exhibit B (Match 2):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFjSPRC7LEI


Exhibit C (Match 3):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smkrpnbOnVw
 

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
12,197
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Pika?
TO me it just seems like you don't know ZSS at all. You didn't know what to expect, and you were sidestepping a lot.
 

Electric-Sachiel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
85
3DS FC
2337-4294-5850
TO me it just seems like you don't know ZSS at all. You didn't know what to expect, and you were sidestepping a lot.

Perhaps thats true. Perhaps. Or perhaps it was fatigue. I knew what to expect from this person since I had matches with him before. But somehow i couldn't get my act together. And anyways what's so bad about sidestepping?

Others have told me I wasn't aggressive enough in those matches i had against this ZSS. You think this is true?
 

Electric-Sachiel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
85
3DS FC
2337-4294-5850
Yeah. When you sidestep a lot you are being defensive..
Well then i guess i'll have to work on that. I felt stoned and half moving with those matches anyways. my movements were too sluggish. It might have been the lag.

But yeah judging from what you saw what did you think of this ZZS player? You think you can take him on?
 

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
12,197
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Pika?
Yeah, he didn't seem that great. However, offline and online ZSS is different. I can't Perfect shield his forward B and down smash.

Why do you people call Zero Suit Samus ZZS? IT's clearly ZSS.
 

Electric-Sachiel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
85
3DS FC
2337-4294-5850
Yeah, he didn't seem that great. However, offline and online ZSS is different. I can't Perfect shield his forward B and down smash.

Why do you people call Zero Suit Samus ZZS? IT's clearly ZSS.
LOL. Must have been a typo. Force of habit. Fine ZSS. Anyways as long as you think he's not that great then he's indeed defeatable. I'll try again tonight to fight him.
 
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