D-Smash off stage options

Okay, so we all know that using d-smash for edgeguarding is sick, especially characters that can't sweetspot the edge or have a slow horizontal approach to the edge, (Wario, Luigi, DK, Peach, MK, etc etc). The question is, wtf do you do once they're stunned. I've debated in my head about this for ages, trying tons of different things. Here's what I've come up with:


Down-B Spike


B-Air


Up-B Spike


Other



Okay, so what do you guys think, any strengths/weaknesses I've overlooked? Any options I left out? I'm looking for the BEST option, meaning, the MOST Reward for the LEAST Risk. It has to have a low enough risk that I would do this IN COMPETITION and not worry about losing a stock.

So for the mechanics of the Plasma Wire spike, I would assume you're basically going to just circle drop around the edge and throw it out as soon as possible?

I've done something a couple of times that is probably old, but maybe it's worth mentioning?

Ok, so the opponent is at the edge of the stage, but still onstage. You land a dsmash on them, now rather than doing a bair or fair, you dsmash them again, and instead of predicting where they will go and hitting them with a bair, you walk behind them while they are in stun. Then when they get out of stun, just upb. All of this happens while standing on stage, so it's ridiculously safe. What's more, every time I've done it, the opponent seems to jump out of stun straight into the "strong" spiking hitbox of the upb.

Again, it's probably old, but I thought it was worth a mention. I dunno if this works at higher levels of play.

clearly bair and down-B spike have the best risk-reward scenarios, with bair being the best.

Fair is another option I would consider. Time the fair so it hits with only the second hit.

What works wonders against characters with bad recovery is stun>fair>jump out>fair
then you can use your down-B and tether to recover

I usually do Fair if the opponent is too far and I know the flip jump kick won't work. Sometimes I use nair then edge hog. Not reliable but works at times.

Have you guys tried doing a dair if you stun'em at the ledge? If you stun them anywhere on or slightly above the ledge. you can roll towards the ledge so that you will be closest as possible. then do an instant jump -> dair. It's like spiking them after dsmashing the ground on Delphino, except they are on your side and not below you. it only works on select occasions. Where they are too close to down b spike and too high to stage spike. There's a video of it somewhere I have to find it

Do slow-fall dairs ever work? Like, in general?

Just Down B Spike.

Down B spike sometimes doesn't work if they are too close or under the stage. In that case, it's better to just Bair to stage spike (watch out for the very rare teching though). As for the Dair spike I wouldn't think it would work unless they are at a really high percentage. Also, if I'm too far away from the opponent and you know the Flip Jump spike wouldn't work, I usually use side+b. I follow up with fair on low perentages and for high ones I try to gimp their up+b (if I can).

So, anyone have any comments on that upb thing I posted a while back?

sasook said:

So, anyone have any comments on that upb thing I posted a while back?

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It could work. Just be careful of not grabbing the ledge on accident.

That's the thing though, you don't have to go offstage at all. You stay on stage to do it, which is why it's so safe. (I know this says thread offstage options, but I figured it could apply anyway).

sasook said:

So, anyone have any comments on that upb thing I posted a while back?

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Could work but not entirely too useful considering the vast amounts of more reliable, more effective approaches to this situation. Good thinking outside of the box though.

FadedImage said:

The up-b itself is super fast, so you'll have plenty of time to run underneath the stunned character. You'll also still have both your second jump AND your down-b, so recovery isn't a problem if you miss.

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I don't think I'm clear on the up-b spike.
If you're below them and up-b spiking them OOStun, then would the whip just grab the ledge?

kuenzel said:

I don't think I'm clear on the up-b spike.
If you're below them and up-b spiking them OOStun, then would the whip just grab the ledge?

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Yea probably. In this case like deliciouscake said your going to circle drop and throw it out on the outer most part of the character. However you will most likely get the juggle hitbox.

I think they best way to approach it would be to delay your circle drop off the stage and attempt to Up B after stun instead of OOS. Probably yield a higher percent chance of getting the strong spike.

Then again I don't use this technique much at all. I'll do some testing. Hope this helps.

someone mind clarifying what a circle drop is? I just cant visualize the up-b spike hitting OOStun without grabbing the ledge first.

Circle Drop I don't believe is an actually technique.

I worded it that way to describe the semi-circular motion your character would make in falling offstage to the outer edge of your opponent.

I believe that in most situations you would grab the ledge. This would have to be attempted only when the character you have stunned has a larger horizontal gap from the edge then usual.

B-air seems to work the best for me after stunning them. Even if you double down smash them, it can still stage spike.

Another good option against characters with a bad recovery is:

D-smash, right after the smash a footstool jump and then right to the edge, works against Ness very well, but I'm sure against DK or Bowser as well as against Ness.

Good mindgame, I'd say

Bleak said:

Another good option against characters with a bad recovery is:

D-smash, right after the smash a footstool jump and then right to the edge, works against Ness very well, but I'm sure against DK or Bowser as well as against Ness.

Good mindgame, I'd say

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Does a footstool even meteor smash while they're stunned?
Even if it did, that's a big stretch. There are so many other things you could do.. up air for crying out loud... that at least does damage.

kuenzel said:

Does a footstool even meteor smash while they're stunned?
Even if it did, that's a big stretch. There are so many other things you could do.. up air for crying out loud... that at least does damage.

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Well, they do fall, kinda slow, but I got a few kills with it, but only works once per opponent, after that, they've learned

Bleak said:

Another good option against characters with a bad recovery is:

D-smash, right after the smash a footstool jump and then right to the edge, works against Ness very well, but I'm sure against DK or Bowser as well as against Ness.

Good mindgame, I'd say

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Just like to note that this is not a mind game...

This thread is devoted to responses to an off stage down smash... which stuns... pretty sure you can't use mind games on an opponent that doesn't move.

The situation itself is static.. although the responses to it may be dynamic no true mind games can be applied.

Footstool will never meteor smash.. and this thought should be dismissed.

I havent tried this yet but a good thought would be to grab them out of the air during (or right after) the stun for a grab release or a pummel grab release (which makes them drop straight down) depending on the character. This would be good if you are in a situation where they are not able to be spiked, daired, or stagespiked and they are at a low percentage where an aerial wouldnt have much of an effect.

Mosty likely if you hit them with a dsmash offstage they used their double jump (if they're not a floaty.) after a release if they use somekind of recovery which they are forced to do, you can stagespike them or edgehog or whatever.

about the up-b spike:

hold outward while performing it, it will prevent edge tethering. (ex: if you're on the right side, hit up-b and then immediately move the analog to up-right->right)


As for the other stuff...

I'm guessing below 100% I'll down-b spike, after that I'll b-air.


Has anyone tried the dropoff down-b? If you guys don't know what I'm talkin' about, I might throw up a little video or something.

I think I might do something similar to your "drop-off Down-B," but with a slightly safer twist...

Just run off stage, holding away from the edge so as not to grab it, then Down-B back toward the stage and attack so that you hit the stunned opponent and land on stage.

3GOD said:

Just run off stage, holding away from the edge so as not to grab it, then Down-B back toward the stage and attack so that you hit the stunned opponent and land on stage.

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Isn't that what the "Drop-off Down B" is?

jibbyjaont said:

Isn't that what the "Drop-off Down B" is?

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He means the same thing but reverse.

3GOD said:

I think I might do something similar to your "drop-off Down-B," but with a slightly safer twist...

Just run off stage, holding away from the edge so as not to grab it, then Down-B back toward the stage and attack so that you hit the stunned opponent and land on stage.

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I do this too, however, it only works when you stun an opponent quite close to the stage.


Pretty soon I'll have a vid up on all this stuff.

Your opponent can also SDI and tech the spike if it is too close to the stage

I'm extraordinarily glad someone made this thread! I was about to make one similar myself. Here's what I've got to offer:

The D-Smash->Down-B Spike combo is a great one but sometimes it isn't practical when it otherwise would be. There a few situations I'll talk about here. Maybe someone else has discovered and does this stuff already; that's great, maybe they have a few things to offer as well.

When your opponent is at 0-X%:
(Note: X is a precision-per-character value)
If you D-Smash on the edge or just near the edge when your opponent is at a low enough percentage that they don't fly up high enough out of the D-Smash, the Down-B Spike Combo doesn't usually work. However, you can actually grab them out of the D-Smash, throw them downward, and then do a Down-B and spike for the kill. This works because of how fast the Down-B comes out, and is a great way to dispose of pesky opponents who like to play near edges at low percentages. Note that with some characters it may be necessary to Grab->Jab->DThrow or they will survive the Down-B Smash (floaty characters like Pit may be able to recover if they aren't at 20%ish or higher). Obviously this is especially effective vs characters with bad recovery. And the great thing is, if you make it back to the edge fast enough, you can chain it into another D-Smash.

So from 0%: D-Smash->Grab->Jab->DThrow->Down-B->Kill

When your opponent is at high percentages:
It isn't uncommon for great Snake players and players of other characters to survive for as long as up to 200%. Sometimes, the opposition is at a percentage where the BAir and FAir won't kill if they DI properly, but they are also rising too quickly out of the D-Smash stun for a D-Smash->Down-B (spike or just for a horizontal kill). If you try the combo above and for whatever reason they fly too high out of the stun, simply short hop before executing the Down-B. This requires precision-per-character, and will not work if you don't time it just right. Also, I am aware that it's probably better to just D-Smash->BAir.

When your opponent is below the stage, but too far out for a BAir Stage Spike:
What I usually do is wait for the D-Smash stun to to wear off, Grab them out of the air, and then depending on the character and percentage, do a variety of things, such as the ones we already talked about (which could be the safest).

You can also do a FThrow or UThrow, then run off the stage and DI away from it into a Up-B spike, but I've only ever pulled this off a few times. If the spike connects quickly, a Down-B toward the stage will usually be enough to recover, but of course you can always tether.