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AlMoStLeGeNdArY · Apr 8, 2009

Rukkiko said:
What your supposed to do is always be thinking how can I improve in my knowledge of controlling Marth and constantly pressuring my opponent. Most of the time you want to be aggressive, creating openings and messing up your opponent and conditioning them. Also, you must know when to punish and zone (as in the DK and MK match-up).

That's the thing I think I am having trouble with I want to be aggressive How I don't want to constantly run into my opponents moves. Which seems to be happening to me. I also don't want to limit my options be being to aggressive and fall into patterns of SHfair SH double fair SH nair dash to shield and dash to side B. So i'm trying to walk a little bit more since marth has more options while walking and that in itself puts pressure on my opponent I think since I become less predictable IMO.

Speaking of the DK & MK match up two of which I'm struggling with a lot I dash towards MK I get a nado and if I dash at DK i get an UP B to the face. I know that the people I am playing are better than me however, it's really annoying since they can pick me apart rather easily and I'm struggling just to keep up.

What is conditioning ?

ZHMT · Apr 8, 2009

Conditioning is watching how your opponents react to your setups and punishing accordingly.

In example, if your opponent air dodges immediately after every fthrow you do...DONT fair rofl, regrab him on the ground or charge and usmash under him, run past him and pivot grab him, walk forward and fsmash... so many options...fthrow is too good.

It is noticing your opponents reactions to your moves and taking advantage of them.

AlMoStLeGeNdArY · Apr 8, 2009

zelda_master_timmy said:
Conditioning is watching how your opponents react to your setups and punishing accordingly.

In example, if your opponent air dodges immediately after every fthrow you do...DONT fair rofl, regrab him on the ground or charge and usmash under him, run past him and pivot grab him, walk forward and fsmash... so many options...fthrow is too good.

It is noticing your opponents reactions to your moves and taking advantage of them.

Ah I see I normally chase after them and fair. Sometimes I do an upsmash. Okay I've been picking up on some of my opponents tendencies lately and trying to figure out what to do when they are in that situation. Ah so conditioning is basically the psychology like with pavlovs dog or whatever the experiment was.

ZHMT · Apr 8, 2009

Yeah but remember, if your playing with a crew or friends or w/e, they will be easier to read over time.

Everyone reacts differently, so you gotta treat each match differently. If your opponent is really predictable you should let them know when they arent mixing stuff up (after the match of course). It will help you and them.

AlMoStLeGeNdArY · Apr 8, 2009

zelda_master_timmy said:
Yeah but remember, if your playing with a crew or friends or w/e, they will be easier to read over time.

Everyone reacts differently, so you gotta treat each match differently. If your opponent is really predictable you should let them know when they arent mixing stuff up (after the match of course). It will help you and them.

I try to play different ppl and currently I'm only playing online all my friends suck at this game I don't even want to bring my Wii to the school and waste my time anymore. I'll try to keep what you said in mind though.

Pr0phetic · Apr 8, 2009

AlMoStLeGeNdArY said:
That's the thing I think I am having trouble with I want to be aggressive How I don't want to constantly run into my opponents moves. Which seems to be happening to me. I also don't want to limit my options be being to aggressive and fall into patterns of SHfair SH double fair SH nair dash to shield and dash to side B. So i'm trying to walk a little bit more since marth has more options while walking and that in itself puts pressure on my opponent I think since I become less predictable IMO.

Speaking of the DK & MK match up two of which I'm struggling with a lot I dash towards MK I get a nado and if I dash at DK i get an UP B to the face. I know that the people I am playing are better than me however, it's really annoying since they can pick me apart rather easily and I'm struggling just to keep up.

What is conditioning ?

Against MK and DK, you want to play slightly defensive, as they can out match (and outrange) your offense. DK isn't so hard as you can ultimately go even with him, and your throws, DTilt, Uairs and Counter *****. Now MK, you'll have to visit the match-up thread for his gayness.

KRiMz0N · Apr 8, 2009

go to tournaments foo'

go meet up with steel and get raep'd

AlMoStLeGeNdArY · Apr 8, 2009

Rukkiko said:
Against MK and DK, you want to play slightly defensive, as they can out match (and outrange) your offense. DK isn't so hard as you can ultimately go even with him, and your throws, DTilt, Uairs and Counter *****. Now MK, you'll have to visit the match-up thread for his gayness.

I've read Kadaj and Havak guide at least 3 times I may not be at the level to take advantage of the things that they say. I've also been having trouble with DK because of his range his smash attacks come out rather fast he lives to dumb high percentages and he can kill you early. I also have trouble with fighting snakes d3 and ROBs. It may be how low my skill level is but it's rather irksome TBH. Their range is annoying and some of their moves don't make sense to me like Snakes Utilt but all I can do is keep practicing I guess.

KRiMz0N said:
go to tournaments foo'

go meet up with steel and get raep'd

I'm going to one on the 18th in Jersey City.

Pr0phetic · Apr 8, 2009

Good, that's the perfect learning opportunity. It's all about you experience and playstyle, it'll improve in time.

AlMoStLeGeNdArY · Apr 8, 2009

Rukkiko said:
Good, that's the perfect learning opportunity. It's all about you experience and playstyle, it'll improve in time.

I guess I just don't want to drive up there waste gas money toll money get ***** then go home although I know thats whats going to end up happening I'd rather stay home and get ***** while playing Wifi although this tourney experience will be good since I plan on going to Apex I think that's in jersey also.

KRiMz0N · Apr 8, 2009

tournaments are about friendlies too, not just winning and losing

make franz

Vitamin_x · Apr 8, 2009

yay franz
i need franz

Pr0phetic · Apr 8, 2009

Play as many friendlies as you can, and you'll get way better through a tourney then through Wi-Fi.

C.box · Apr 8, 2009

AlMoStLeGeNdArY said:
where did he post how to do it? Where is the vid at?

I posted what he said in my first post, guess you didn't read it huh? <_<

Anyways this is what he said and he said this in that blog as a comment.

"key point is
A: buffer the dash (not the grab)
B: dash attack cancel grab".

Vitamin_x · Apr 8, 2009

How do you beat spammers on wifi?
I just played a wolf that only did fsmash and neutral b.
He was all like "how am I a spammer" but eh, I digress.

Is there a thread of Marth's ledge options?

adumbrodeus · Apr 8, 2009

Vitamin_x said:
How do you beat spammers on wifi?
I just played a wolf that only did fsmash and neutral b.
He was all like "how am I a spammer" but eh, I digress.

Is there a thread of Marth's ledge options?

Firstly, let me deal with an implication you have here, there is nothing wrong with spamming, the laser spam is a major part about how wolf wins. F-smash on the other hand...

It's a punishing move, spamming it is stupid.

Now then, avoid the laser spam by power-shielding. Then get close and when he f-smashes, shield and forward-b.

As for ledge options, try this guide.

Also, you can stall to a degree by ledge-drop to up-b, it's difficult but you're in constant invulnerability frames if you do it properly. Still vulnerable to ledge-stealing though, and it's tough.

Keep in mind, wifi has latency which causes some things to work differently then offline.

KRiMz0N · Apr 8, 2009

the only match marth can win on wifi is against another marth

BBoyindo · Apr 8, 2009

KRiMz0N said:
the only match marth can win on wifi is against another marth

No then Marth always loses.

Pr0phetic · Apr 8, 2009

Actually Marth can beat people on Wi-Fi if they have a good connection, as the input delay could technically level everything out, but that's why you must learn.

adumbrodeus · Apr 8, 2009

KRiMz0N said:
the only match marth can win on wifi is against another marth

BBoyindo said:
No then Marth always loses.

Rukkiko said:
Actually Marth can beat people on Wi-Fi if they have a good connection, as the input delay could technically level everything out, but that's why you must learn.

The point is, you're better off just playing off-line, everyone agreed?

Vitamin_x · Apr 8, 2009

Well I'd rather lose on wifi and learn than play offline against CPUs and scrubs and not improve.

eh eh?

KRiMz0N · Apr 8, 2009

but you wont learn

online play is different from regular play

playing cpus keeps you sharp. you go to in person tournaments and play friendlies to actually improve.

Vitamin_x · Apr 8, 2009

KRiMz0N said:
but you wont learn

online play is different from regular play

playing cpus keeps you sharp. you go to in person tournaments and play friendlies to actually improve.

Bullcrap.
You DO learn from wifi. Playing cpus is SO different from playing people.
If you don't have access to tourneys, wifi is your best bet. NOT ****ty cpus.

KRiMz0N · Apr 8, 2009

wifi = / = rl

Vitamin_x · Apr 8, 2009

KRiMz0N said:
wifi = / = rl

That's obvious, but brawl is more than just hitting a CPU off the stage.
people (whether on wifi or irl) ≠ CPUs.

KRiMz0N · Apr 8, 2009

play wifi if you want to mess up your reflexes learn fake combos and spacing but are getting annoyed of cpus pshielding your tipper shield breaker

play cpus if you don't want to sync with lag and, well, learn fake combos too

playing cpus is more than just hitting a cpu off the stage

Vitamin_x · Apr 8, 2009

KRiMz0N said:
play wifi if you want to mess up your reflexes learn fake combos and spacing but are getting annoyed of cpus pshielding your tipper shield breaker

play cpus if you don't want to sync with lag and, well, learn fake combos too

playing cpus is more than just hitting a cpu off the stage

You don't understand.
Humans on wifi can think, CPUs can't.
Humans can camp, CPUs can't.
Humans can spam, CPUs can't.
Humans know how to use their character to it's full potential, CPU's can't.
You'll never get anywhere if you only play CPUs.

KRiMz0N · Apr 8, 2009

i never said only play cpus, i said play cpus and go to tournies

and being spammed/camped does not tell you how to get better

Vitamin_x · Apr 8, 2009

KRiMz0N said:
i never said only play cpus, i said play cpus and go to tournies

and being spammed/camped does not tell you how to get better

Yes it does.
It's an obstacle that you will eventually encounter and playing CPUs is NOT going to give you the experience for that.

And I was talking about if you don't have regular access to tourneys.

KRiMz0N · Apr 8, 2009

thats why you just find somebody to play with offline

i dont feel like arguing anymore so i wont respond

Steel · Apr 8, 2009

wifi is really good unless its lagging, a good convenient way to get better.

Vitamin_x · Apr 8, 2009

KRiMz0N said:
thats why you just find somebody to play with offline

i dont feel like arguing anymore so i wont respond

~Not everybody has a brawl buddy.~

Steel2nd said:
wifi is really good unless its lagging, a good convenient way to get better.

I love you steel.

Xisin · Apr 8, 2009

wi-fi is good practice just dont immerse yourself in it. For instance i have my DB down to muscle memory pretty much... and it does not work on wi-fi. (i go about as quick as you can for the most part offline.) online i end up swinging twice and then stopping the db and doing a random b move. Online does indeed have a weird feel to it compared, but eh pick 2-3 buddies and let loose i guess, or if you must go do a ladder.

Wi-fi is excellent for match up experience, but nothing replaces good old fashioned offline brawl vs another person of equal or greater skill.

Spade1 · Apr 8, 2009

Playing as Marth, how do you prevent metaknight from dropping down on the ledge, jumping up and regrabbing? I know someone that does this after every time he kills me, and he just waits for me to waste my invinciblility time out of the spawn. I've tried spiking him and up B ing him into the stage but what usually happens is he sees me leave the stage, regrabs the ledge, and climbs on while im stuck in mid air having to grab the ledge. By now all my invincability is gone plus I'm on the ledge. Should you just sit back and let your invincibility waste or is there a better way for dealing with this? Ahhh please help.

Vitamin_x · Apr 8, 2009

Spade1 said:
Playing as Marth, how do you prevent metaknight from dropping down on the ledge, jumping up and regrabbing? I know someone that does this after every time he kills me, and he just waits for me to waste my invinciblility time out of the spawn. I've tried spiking him and up B ing him into the stage but what usually happens is he sees me leave the stage, regrabs the ledge, and climbs on while im stuck in mid air having to grab the ledge. By now all my invincability is gone plus I'm on the ledge. Should you just sit back and let your invincibility waste or is there a better way for dealing with this? Ahhh please help.

Fsmash works if he's on the ledge and his invincibility frames run out.
You could also dtilt to put pressure on him.
Or you could play it safe and just wait for him to stop stalling.

PhatyCHONG · Apr 8, 2009

What are the advantages of playing Diddy on Delfino Plaza
Do you think this is in Marth's advantage/ Diddy's Advantage/ or Neutral

[forget FD and SV] Do you need to ban Jungle Japes against Diddy

I occasionally use Marth and I have trouble playing my own kind :D

Vitamin_x · Apr 8, 2009

PhatyCHONG said:
What are the advantages of playing Diddy on Delfino Plaza
Do you think this is in Marth's advantage/ Diddy's Advantage/ or Neutral

[forget FD and SV] Do you need to ban Jungle Japes against Diddy

I occasionally use Marth and I have trouble playing my own kind :D

Don't know much about the Marth-Diddy matchup, but bananas are the hardest part of playing a Diddy IMO.
Smaller platforms/stages can make it tricky to avoid the 'nanners.

Pr0phetic · Apr 8, 2009

You should never play on Japes to begin with. If Marth keeps control of Diddy's nanas, it messes up his whole game, and Marth will ****. Lylat and BF are excellent agaisnt Diddy, I guess Delfino is ok but I wouldn't recommend it.

Spade1 · Apr 8, 2009

Vitamin_x said:
Fsmash works if he's on the ledge and his invincibility frames run out.
You could also dtilt to put pressure on him.
Or you could play it safe and just wait for him to stop stalling.

I don't think Fsmash would work though he just jumps down and regrabs constantly, never runs out of invincibility on the edge. I'll have to try out dtilt though. It never even came to mind since it definately doesn't look like it would hit him from him just dropping down and jumping back up.

and as for waiting for him to stop stalling... yeah I've done alot of that... pisses me off, so much invinicibility time wasted...

thanks.

KRiMz0N · Apr 8, 2009

Steel2nd said:
wifi is really good unless its lagging, a good convenient way to get better.

i'm just raging because i always lose on wifi

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