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The Official Ike Video Critique Thread

metroid1117

Smash Master
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I wanna see ur replays cuz u give such detailed analytical reports on a game that i wanna see if u play as clean
I'm really not that good lol. There are some old videos of me playing Brawl with my brother dating back some months ago, but he doesn't play competitively so our matches are one-sided and I make too many mistakes from being greedy. I haven't played for a long time and I don't have much exposure to the competitive Brawl scene (except for 3 tournies, but the most recent was three months ago). I hope to go to more tournies and get some more recent videos of me playing different people during the summer though.

... The worst part is that I live literally like 15 minutes away from Kirk and I'm not allowed to Smash with him because of my parents :(.

I do the second-by-second analysis because it's sort of my way of keeping track what mistakes to mention in the overall summary.
 

Palpi

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**** that sucks. I am starting TO'ing this summer at some local venues and I am gonna train with people all summer regardless of my parents lol. "I am going to a friends house." /win
 

Palpi

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Ike vs Pit Yoshi's Island Brawl


Ike vs Pit Pokemon Stadium 2


Obviously, Yoshi's Island is in my favor and Pokemon Stadium eventually ****s me over.D:

Critique Please!

I second Ike and my Cousin mains Pit.
Use a lot more bair. After you use a fthrow or bthrow you can follow it up with a dashattack at certain percents.

Instead of whiffing like 20 spikes stay on the edge and space your fairs to apply pressure off stage.

There is no point in forward smashing or whiffing ftilts before like 70% you could be hitting with other stuff to wrack up even more damage.

Use a lot less counter, you tried it 3 times and it failed. Since his comes out in more frames than marth's counter it is harder to land efficiently.

Use a lot more bair I think you used 2-3 in both matches. It can combo into other stuff if auto-cancelled and it is a very sufficient kill move. It is also Ike's lease punishable aerial if spaces properly.

Overall: You have the basics down, but you need to link things like, nair to jab combo or nair to bair, hell or even jab to bair. Also linking bthrow to dash attack works well especially for pressure offstage. Good matches hope to see more videos soon. If i repeated stuff it is either something you should really do or I watched the videos progressivly and forgot what I typed :)
 

ohaiduhg

Smash Lord
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Nov 28, 2008
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Llano, CA
Use a lot more bair. After you use a fthrow or bthrow you can follow it up with a dashattack at certain percents.

Instead of whiffing like 20 spikes stay on the edge and space your fairs to apply pressure off stage.

There is no point in forward smashing or whiffing ftilts before like 70% you could be hitting with other stuff to wrack up even more damage.

Use a lot less counter, you tried it 3 times and it failed. Since his comes out in more frames than marth's counter it is harder to land efficiently.

Use a lot more bair I think you used 2-3 in both matches. It can combo into other stuff if auto-cancelled and it is a very sufficient kill move. It is also Ike's lease punishable aerial if spaces properly.

Overall: You have the basics down, but you need to link things like, nair to jab combo or nair to bair, hell or even jab to bair. Also linking bthrow to dash attack works well especially for pressure offstage. Good matches hope to see more videos soon. If i repeated stuff it is either something you should really do or I watched the videos progressivly and forgot what I typed :)
I use the Spikes for DI a lot. Pit can fly and glide around me. But a lot of what you said made sense.

Hopefully, I'll record more in June and upload them and see if I improve.XD

Can I get a Time Lapse Critique on the matches?

Going off of Palpi's critique, I"m just gonna add and say stop rolling so much. Rolling is not Ike's forte.
I'm a roll addict. I need help.XD
 

Nysyarc

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I use the Spikes for DI a lot. Pit can fly and glide around me. But a lot of what you said made sense.

Hopefully, I'll record more in June and upload them and see if I improve.XD

Can I get a Time Lapse Critique on the matches?



I'm a roll addict. I need help.XD
Lol, you play almost exactly how I did a few months ago, it was almost like watching a vid of myself O.o

Remember when you grab don't hesitate to pummel a bit if they're over 25%. I think you can safely pummel once for each 25% they have. Also, don't only throw backwards, it gets predictable and people will learn to get out of it, mix it up as much as possible.

Also I do want to stress the overuse of dair offstage. Since Pit will almost always be flying up above the edge, some spaced fairs or even uairs (if he's high enough) would be better. I like spiking people with Ike but you have to play mind games with them. Ike has a lot of ways to spike people (Aether, dtilt, shorthop dair, walk-off dair, etc...), so make sure you incorporate as many different methods as you can to keep your opponent guessing.

I've made people hesitate too long with their recoveries and slowly fall to their deaths because they don't know how I'm going to try and spike them next :lick: But remember to throw in some other edge-guarding moves too. Eruption is a good one for most characters because of the SA frames and it's good vertical hitbox.
 

metroid1117

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Can I get a Time Lapse Critique on the matches?
Coming up soon, watching the first match now. Will edit later.

EDIT:

DarkWater (Ike) vs Hus. (Pit) 1

0:01-06 - You were probably just messing around, but it's better to spot-dodge or powershield the arrows rather than roll to avoid them. There's a 4 frame window for powershielding or something like that, so it's not as hard as it seems; it's just a matter of getting used to the timing like any other projectile.
0:09 - Instead of walking to him after the jab combo, you should've run up with a shield; usually people will try to get you away from them with a quick attack like a jab (unless they have a huge grab range like D3 or Charizard), so approaching them with a shield will cover that option and put you in a position to either drop your shield and jab or (maybe) shieldgrab.
0:14 - Yeah, you need to cut down on the rolling.
0:43 - You did a good job on predicting the airdodge, but you didn't punish for it; at the very least you could've FAir'd or UAir'd.
0:52 - Eww. Never use QD as an attack when your opponent is at that low of a %; you could've fastfall'd a BAir instead. QD should be saved for higher %s, where if you hit them they'll be knocked back far enough that they can't punish you and where you have no other option to add on some free damage.
1:01 - Whenever you Aether as an attack, either do it when you can drop down safely onto the edge or when you're certain that they can't do anything to prevent from getting hit. Your cousin likes to wait for you to approach before attacking, so you could've guessed that he wouldn't run into Aether.
1:05 - FTilt is a powerful move, but it's start-up time makes it riskier than most of Ike's other ground moves; save it for when your opponent has more damage so that there's more reward for when you get it off. I personally think a FAir (slightly retreated) would've been better there, since that distance was pretty good spacing for it.
1:10 - Rather than going for the dash grab, you should've jabbed; it's more damaging than the grab and it's faster.
1:13 - Again, less rolling and FTilt.
1:19 - Pit's FSmash is punishable, but you should use a quicker move than FSmash; FAir probably would've been the better choice, while FTilt may have worked if you did it quickly enough.
1:36 - You can follow up with dash attack after a BThrow (you can also do it out of an FThrow, but it's not a true combo and it's more easily escaped); it's best if you C-stick the dash attack rather than running and then pressing A.
1:42 - Your cousin airdodged the last time you BThrow'd him off, so you should've known he would airdodge this time as well.

You have a tendency to roll to much, and you should try predicting/punishing your opponent's airdodges better. Some easy ways to bait airdodges are to charge USmash or FSmash or to jump at your opponent with your back turned; they'll most likely expect a BAir and airdodge, allowing you to get a free BAir or DAir depending on where they are. You should also try to refrain from doing the full jab combo and learn how to jab cancel (press down after either the first or second hit of the jab combo to cut down the ending lag); jab -> jab cancel -> jab combo does about 17% and is a true combo, while jab -> jab cancel -> grab is pretty reliable depending on your opponent's DI. Jab -> jab cancel -> UTilt, jab -> jab cancel -> DSmash (not so commonly used), and jab -> jab cancel -> BAir are also possible depending on your opponent's DI.

Against a Pit who uses glide and glide attack to recover, you should play it patiently and try to knock them out with FAirs; it has good range and is much harder to avoid when you can't airdodge. You can also purposely get into their range and Counter their glide attack if they get predictable enough. Eruption, while it has a big hitbox, should not be used because they can just cancel their glide and fly above you if you try charging it. DAir is too good at punishing glides because it's easy to see coming and they can just fly above you after canceling their glide. When they're gliding towards you as an attack onstage, UTilt or retreating USmash works well to stop them.

Match 2

0:07 - You had a feel for your cousin's playstyle the match before, so you should've known that he likes to come down with airdodges rather than try and attack to cover himself. Knowing this, following him and charging an USmash would've been a good option, along with just jabbing him.
0:09 - Brawl has very little shieldstun, so you can pretty much grab after you get hit rather than waiting for his attack animation to finish.
0:17 - Nice FAirs, they were well-spaced.
0:19 - Your cousin doesn't like running in for attacking, so FTilt wasn't a good choice there.
0:28 - Again, BThrow -> dash attack is a true combo at most %s. You also should've jab -> jab cancel -> jab combo to add the extra damage rather than just jab combo; Ike can have a hard time getting a solid hit sometimes, so every bit of damage helps.
0:44 - Note how your cousin airdodged after he footstool'd you; rather than being obvious and jumping out with the spike, you could've baited the airdodge with by charging an FSmash.
0:54 - DThrow -> Aether only works at low %s and when your opponent doesn't know how to DI; it should never be used, unless you delayed the Aether knowing that your opponent will airdodge. Even so, Aether is easily DI'd out of so you'll very rarely get the full 20%+ that it can do.
0:57 - BThrow -> dash attack would've worked there.
1:33 - In terms of stalling your momentum, airdodging is better than FAir'ing if you're trying avoid a horizontal KO.
1:40 - You should be more wary when you FAir at that distance; your spacing was off, so if your cousin had shielded the FAir, you could've been punished. You could've instead FAir but drift off the stage and then Aether back.
1:43 - You almost punished the airdodge, just don't doubt yourself and release too early.
2:48 - QD is a bad option in this scenario, you should've just airdodged or side-stepped the arrows.
2:53 - If you want to protect yourself from above, UAir is a better option than Eruption despite the SAF.
2:56 - Wow, nice arrow by your cousin.

You pretty much had the same problems in this match as you did in the previous match; you used FTilt too much and you didn't jab enough. You're also grabbing too late; you can grab much sooner after an attack hits your shield because of the negligible shield stun. You should try incorporating more aerials than FAir or DAir into your game; NAir is excellent at setting up for attacks at low %s and is Ike's fastest aerial in terms of landing lag, BAir is Ike's quickest aerial and one of his most powerful attacks (you can also auto-cancel it from a short-hop if you're quick enough), and UAir is Ike's best move for punishing airdodges since the hitbox stays out so long. (It starts behind him, becomes more visible in front, then goes back behind him all with the same power. It's always out at his hands, directly over his head. Not only that, but against grounded opponents with no DI, it kills at the same % as a non-charged USmash.)

tl;dr - Use more jab cancels, predict your opponent more, use less FTilt, dash attack after BThrow, and experiment with more of Ike's aerials. Feel free to come back with more videos for critiquing.
 

ohaiduhg

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Lol, you play almost exactly how I did a few months ago, it was almost like watching a vid of myself O.o

Remember when you grab don't hesitate to pummel a bit if they're over 25%. I think you can safely pummel once for each 25% they have. Also, don't only throw backwards, it gets predictable and people will learn to get out of it, mix it up as much as possible.

Also I do want to stress the overuse of dair offstage. Since Pit will almost always be flying up above the edge, some spaced fairs or even uairs (if he's high enough) would be better. I like spiking people with Ike but you have to play mind games with them. Ike has a lot of ways to spike people (Aether, dtilt, shorthop dair, walk-off dair, etc...), so make sure you incorporate as many different methods as you can to keep your opponent guessing.

I've made people hesitate too long with their recoveries and slowly fall to their deaths because they don't know how I'm going to try and spike them next :lick: But remember to throw in some other edge-guarding moves too. Eruption is a good one for most characters because of the SA frames and it's good vertical hitbox.

Spiking... Pit is essentially unspike-able with Ike, unless the Pit is really bad or messing up.:p Maybe I should just avoid spiking him?lol

And Dair for momentum canceling lets pretend I meant that.lol

TBH, I use it out of a mistake jump and I try to get out of it with Dair. At the time, it seemed like a good idea.lol But I've got a better hang of it I'm so nubby much now I assure you. I didn't have much of an idea how to fight him, so help was sought.XD

Coming up soon, watching the first match now. Will edit later.

EDIT:

DarkWater (Ike) vs Hus. (Pit) 1

0:01-06 - You were probably just messing around, but it's better to spot-dodge or powershield the arrows rather than roll to avoid them. There's a 4 frame window for powershielding or something like that, so it's not as hard as it seems; it's just a matter of getting used to the timing like any other projectile.
0:09 - Instead of walking to him after the jab combo, you should've run up with a shield; usually people will try to get you away from them with a quick attack like a jab (unless they have a huge grab range like D3 or Charizard), so approaching them with a shield will cover that option and put you in a position to either drop your shield and jab or (maybe) shieldgrab.
0:14 - Yeah, you need to cut down on the rolling.
0:43 - You did a good job on predicting the airdodge, but you didn't punish for it; at the very least you could've FAir'd or UAir'd.
0:52 - Eww. Never use QD as an attack when your opponent is at that low of a %; you could've fastfall'd a BAir instead. QD should be saved for higher %s, where if you hit them they'll be knocked back far enough that they can't punish you and where you have no other option to add on some free damage.
1:01 - Whenever you Aether as an attack, either do it when you can drop down safely onto the edge or when you're certain that they can't do anything to prevent from getting hit. Your cousin likes to wait for you to approach before attacking, so you could've guessed that he wouldn't run into Aether.
1:05 - FTilt is a powerful move, but it's start-up time makes it riskier than most of Ike's other ground moves; save it for when your opponent has more damage so that there's more reward for when you get it off. I personally think a FAir (slightly retreated) would've been better there, since that distance was pretty good spacing for it.
1:10 - Rather than going for the dash grab, you should've jabbed; it's more damaging than the grab and it's faster.
1:13 - Again, less rolling and FTilt.
1:19 - Pit's FSmash is punishable, but you should use a quicker move than FSmash; FAir probably would've been the better choice, while FTilt may have worked if you did it quickly enough.
1:36 - You can follow up with dash attack after a BThrow (you can also do it out of an FThrow, but it's not a true combo and it's more easily escaped); it's best if you C-stick the dash attack rather than running and then pressing A.
1:42 - Your cousin airdodged the last time you BThrow'd him off, so you should've known he would airdodge this time as well.

You have a tendency to roll to much, and you should try predicting/punishing your opponent's airdodges better. Some easy ways to bait airdodges are to charge USmash or FSmash or to jump at your opponent with your back turned; they'll most likely expect a BAir and airdodge, allowing you to get a free BAir or DAir depending on where they are. You should also try to refrain from doing the full jab combo and learn how to jab cancel (press down after either the first or second hit of the jab combo to cut down the ending lag); jab -> jab cancel -> jab combo does about 17% and is a true combo, while jab -> jab cancel -> grab is pretty reliable depending on your opponent's DI. Jab -> jab cancel -> UTilt, jab -> jab cancel -> DSmash (not so commonly used), and jab -> jab cancel -> BAir are also possible depending on your opponent's DI.

Against a Pit who uses glide and glide attack to recover, you should play it patiently and try to knock them out with FAirs; it has good range and is much harder to avoid when you can't airdodge. You can also purposely get into their range and Counter their glide attack if they get predictable enough. Eruption, while it has a big hitbox, should not be used because they can just cancel their glide and fly above you if you try charging it. DAir is too good at punishing glides because it's easy to see coming and they can just fly above you after canceling their glide. When they're gliding towards you as an attack onstage, UTilt or retreating USmash works well to stop them.

Match 2

0:07 - You had a feel for your cousin's playstyle the match before, so you should've known that he likes to come down with airdodges rather than try and attack to cover himself. Knowing this, following him and charging an USmash would've been a good option, along with just jabbing him.
0:09 - Brawl has very little shieldstun, so you can pretty much grab after you get hit rather than waiting for his attack animation to finish.
0:17 - Nice FAirs, they were well-spaced.
0:19 - Your cousin doesn't like running in for attacking, so FTilt wasn't a good choice there.
0:28 - Again, BThrow -> dash attack is a true combo at most %s. You also should've jab -> jab cancel -> jab combo to add the extra damage rather than just jab combo; Ike can have a hard time getting a solid hit sometimes, so every bit of damage helps.
0:44 - Note how your cousin airdodged after he footstool'd you; rather than being obvious and jumping out with the spike, you could've baited the airdodge with by charging an FSmash.
0:54 - DThrow -> Aether only works at low %s and when your opponent doesn't know how to DI; it should never be used, unless you delayed the Aether knowing that your opponent will airdodge. Even so, Aether is easily DI'd out of so you'll very rarely get the full 20%+ that it can do.
0:57 - BThrow -> dash attack would've worked there.
1:33 - In terms of stalling your momentum, airdodging is better than FAir'ing if you're trying avoid a horizontal KO.
1:40 - You should be more wary when you FAir at that distance; your spacing was off, so if your cousin had shielded the FAir, you could've been punished. You could've instead FAir but drift off the stage and then Aether back.
1:43 - You almost punished the airdodge, just don't doubt yourself and release too early.
2:48 - QD is a bad option in this scenario, you should've just airdodged or side-stepped the arrows.
2:53 - If you want to protect yourself from above, UAir is a better option than Eruption despite the SAF.
2:56 - Wow, nice arrow by your cousin.

You pretty much had the same problems in this match as you did in the previous match; you used FTilt too much and you didn't jab enough. You're also grabbing too late; you can grab much sooner after an attack hits your shield because of the negligible shield stun. You should try incorporating more aerials than FAir or DAir into your game; NAir is excellent at setting up for attacks at low %s and is Ike's fastest aerial in terms of landing lag, BAir is Ike's quickest aerial and one of his most powerful attacks (you can also auto-cancel it from a short-hop if you're quick enough), and UAir is Ike's best move for punishing airdodges since the hitbox stays out so long. (It starts behind him, becomes more visible in front, then goes back behind him all with the same power. It's always out at his hands, directly over his head. Not only that, but against grounded opponents with no DI, it kills at the same % as a non-charged USmash.)

tl;dr - Use more jab cancels, predict your opponent more, use less FTilt, dash attack after BThrow, and experiment with more of Ike's aerials. Feel free to come back with more videos for critiquing.
Thank you.:p But in the windy up current thing Pit had full control. His DI multi jumps and Dair and I can't do much to him at all. Uair is too close range.D: but yeah I'll put this to use.
 

metroid1117

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Thank you.:p But in the windy up current thing Pit had full control. His DI multi jumps and Dair and I can't do much to him at all. Uair is too close range.D: but yeah I'll put this to use.
Your cousin never used Pit's up+B in those matches, so I didn't touch on this; I should've though.

Pit's up+B covers excellent distance, but it also leaves him horridly vulnerable; if he is hit while in his up+B, he will lose all of his jumps. You don't have to hit him hard, either; if he's coming from below the stage, you can try fastfalling off the stage and Aether'ing him or running off, jumping, and BAir'ing him into the stage (which is riskier). You can also try to use a walk-off DAir if he comes from below the stage (it's easiest if you set your C-stick to "Attack", but with your C-stick set to "Smash" you can do it by gently tilting down while C-sticking DAir).

The hitbox for UAir is quite awkward, but once you get used to it, UAir can be used in several ways. One is for baiting airdodges; just jump up at an opponent to force the airdodge, then UAir and fastfall on top of them to hit them right when they stop their airdodge (2:54). If your opponent is at a very high %, you can also run off the stage with an UAir to trick their DI; they'll most likely DI upwards thinking that you're FAir'ing them, but they'll only DI towards their doom. If you're lucky, you can stagespike with it (2:42; not a walk-off UAir, but you should get the idea). Short-hop UAir is good for hitting tall characters out of a spot-dodge (1:48).
 

LuLLo

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Hi Ikes,
I finally got the means to record some matches of me, but there are only 2 sadly, I'll bring up more someday. Anyways, the first match was lolz, since my friend has played MK for only a week (which shouldn't be an excuse to suck :p...), but the second match is a close one, my Ike is just a little better overall than his Snake. Feel free to give lots of critique :).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVz6I5tgDYY vs Kodama (MK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuGM_utaG3I vs Kodama (Snake)
 

•Col•

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Hi Ikes,
I finally got the means to record some matches of me, but there are only 2 sadly, I'll bring up more someday. Anyways, the first match was lolz, since my friend has played MK for only a week (which shouldn't be an excuse to suck :p...), but the second match is a close one, my Ike is just a little better overall than his Snake. Feel free to give lots of critique :).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVz6I5tgDYY vs Kodama (MK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuGM_utaG3I vs Kodama (Snake)
Hey, I just watched the Snake video. Just have a few comments...

1. Maybe try some other jab cancel variations... Every time to jab cancelled into another jab... Maybe try a jab->utilt, or jab->grab(pummel)->down throw. Snake is practically defenseless whenever you're attacking from beneath him. Try to get him up into the air above you more.

2. Whenever you're hit away horizontally, airdodge then jump to momentum cancel... I saw that a few times you were hit away, you just jumped instead of airdodging. When hit vertically though, just keep it up with those fast-falled dairs...

3. Something else that I think could really help you.... I don't think throughout the entire video you dropped through a platform... Everytime, you walked off of it instead... Just hold down on the control stick whenever you're in the air, and you'll pass right through the platform instead of landing on it. Or, if you're standing on the platform, tap down on the control stick. Something neat you can do with this, is you can do a bair right as you fall through the platform. It can be a quick and powerful surprise attack, which most people don't expect of Ike. I've gotten quite a few kills this way...

4. Ease up on the quickdraw... Lol... :p


Other than the stuff I listed above, yeah, pretty nice Ike... Maybe ease up on the airdodging and sidestepping as well...
 

PentaSalia

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jab into jab is a bit more reliable then jab into uptilt or jab into ftilt
your opponent has more of a chance of shielding or dodging jab into uptilt than jab into jab because of the start up uptilt has IMO.


Aside from jab into bair, i found that jab into dsmash isnt so bad,but there's always a chance they can powershield it,then you're screwed lol
 

Palpi

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Dsmash is ikes worst move in my opinion. Don't use it.

Jab -> jab-combo is better in every single way and 95% more reliable (random numbers ftw)
 

PentaSalia

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Dsmash is ikes worst move in my opinion. Don't use it.

Jab -> jab-combo is better in every single way and 95% more reliable (random numbers ftw)
lol obviously dsmash is a bad attack but he was talking about variations in your jabs.
Plus if you get your opponent high enough in the air with your jabs,you can land a dsmash because of it's hitbox so it wouldn't be bad to consider it if the normal jab -> jab or jab-> bair, jab-> grab doesn't work lol
 

PentaSalia

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is that sarcasm?o_o lol

edit:oh i'm guess you saw the vid in my sig o_x''
oh umm..thanks lol
 

metroid1117

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So... I FINALLY went to a tournament today (first time since January lol) and was doing VERY well in friendlies (I won almost all the games I played, with the exception of an Ike ditto I played with Meneil among other matches) and did okay in the bracket; I won my first match 2-0, lost my set against Quik (one of the best Warios in the Midwest) 0-2, won my next two matches 2-0, then was knocked out by ook (the best DK in Illinois, if not in the Midwest) and lost 0-2. The following match is the second game I played with ook; I would've saved the replay of the first match if I knew that the Wii we were playing on had the infinite replay code.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oburAH9jtx0

By the way, any time I do an empty short hop it's meant to be a BAir. I still press A too quickly after jumping... Another obvious mistake is at 1:43, when I DTilt instead of dropping down with a DAir.

I'm mainly looking for any constructive criticism, suggestions on how to gimp DK out of BThrow with the exception of walk-off DAir (tried that SOOO many times... edgehog -> reverse Aether doesn't work since he can just auto-sweetspot from up+B at that distance), and any habits my opponent had that I should've picked up on.
 

Palpi

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It is hard to gimp DK. His recovery is covering mad ground horizontally and it has crazy priority. Also is ledge attack has crazy range and speed so you pretty much have to let him back on to the stage and punished his get up some how.
 

Kimchi

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
895
Location
Fort Lee, NJ / Cornell University - Ithaca, NY
I'm surprised at how much you used Dair this match. Apart from that, generally, against a DK, you'll never want to be the one who makes the mistake, especially when DK has a punch fully charged. This was the case at 0:45 and it cost you a stock. Another thing, DKs like to do what ook did at 1:49 to land on the stage safely, because the punch grants DK invincibility frames as well as serving as a very powerful attack. It gets predictable though so don't always try to rush against DKs. Also, why didn't you use Ike's aerial dodge when you were momentum cancelling? I think you could have survived at 0:45 if you used an Aerial Dodge. Overall, I think you were trying to be too offensive and didn't incorporate a more defensive style game. It cost you a lot, trying to Fsmash ook at 0:45, trying to Dash attack ook at 1:49, and 2:29 when you tried to rush towards him. I'm surprised ook didn't use his up B that much during the match to abuse its invincibility frames like when he played me.
 

metroid1117

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 1, 2005
Messages
3,786
Location
Chester, IL
I'm surprised at how much you used Dair this match. Apart from that, generally, against a DK, you'll never want to be the one who makes the mistake, especially when DK has a punch fully charged. This was the case at 0:45 and it cost you a stock. Another thing, DKs like to do what ook did at 1:49 to land on the stage safely, because the punch grants DK invincibility frames as well as serving as a very powerful attack. It gets predictable though so don't always try to rush against DKs. Also, why didn't you use Ike's aerial dodge when you were momentum cancelling? I think you could have survived at 0:45 if you used an Aerial Dodge. Overall, I think you were trying to be too offensive and didn't incorporate a more defensive style game. It cost you a lot, trying to Fsmash ook at 0:45, trying to Dash attack ook at 1:49, and 2:29 when you tried to rush towards him. I'm surprised ook didn't use his up B that much during the match to abuse its invincibility frames like when he played me.
I did DAir a lot in this game :(. It felt so good when that walk-off DAir on his second stock hit though XD. Is there anything else you can try doing to DK if you get him off the stage with BThrow? Otherwise, I think I'll just DThrow him and ground stalk him, since DK doesn't really have any good moves that hit below and in front of him. I do keep underestimating DK's cool-down lag after his Smash attacks and rush him when it's actually unsafe; I should've known about it by now though, it's not the first time I've played him :ohwell:. I've gotten into the bad habit of trying to SDI everything up and DAir rather than see if I'm getting hit horizontally and airdodging; at the case you pointed out, I either screwed up my DI or just DAir'd out of reflex. Even so, I doubt I would've survived; I was at 118% and Giant Punch was fresh, but oh well. Thanks for the critique, I'll play around with DK in Training Mode and really examine those IASA frames.
 

san.

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
Moderator
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
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5,651
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Rochester, NY
NNID
Sansoldier
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DK can't just Up B out of aether?
 

Teh Brettster

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
3,428
Location
Denton, Texas (Dallas)
I'm pretty sure he can't. If he's caught in the spinning sword at the apex of its height. I think that's the most crucial part. Metroid probably expected ook to get out of Aether at :58, but DK would not have been able to escape.. and Metroid passed up on the free kill.
Believe me. Aether works VERY well on DK. The final hit, in that situation, can always be expected to yield a free kill.

If DK is sent horizontally, you can hang on the ledge, wait for him to start his recovery, and then ledge drop reverse Aether. If you can time it, it's a great tool. And if you're against a DK who isn't recovering low, you can Dtilt spike him out of upB, which is a kill no matter what. You probably could have done this at 2:02, but you really did have no time to react, so no blame there.

Just keep in mind that Ike doesn't do a bad job of gimping DK.. if you have good timing.
 

Teh Brettster

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
3,428
Location
Denton, Texas (Dallas)
Man The Ike boards are so sad. No wonder why no new Ikes post here.
Belgian ROFLs. We were happier for a month or two there. We had a delightful absence of that one silly kid who always made one-line, pointless posts (and even longer pointless posts, which held even greater annoyance)... I can't recall who that was, though....

Ryko, Niddo.. do you guys remember? Does anyone remember who that kid was?
 
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