TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

What the hell is wrong with you people?

It's freaking Falcon. You can't beat Falcon.

He's too manly.

[EDIT] Also, lasers can't penetrate Falcon's manly muscles.

[EDIT2] Falcon Punch.

[EDIT3] Knee of Justice.

Falco would win for the obvious reason that in a game, falco is aggressive and trained to fight.. he flies a fighter, where as captain falcon is a racer... no real weapons or fighting style minus the one presented to him in brawl... the only reason he even came out of his vehicle at all was because of the smash bros series. Stand alone and fighting, Falco makes sense, and although I love captain falcon I would have to point this in falco's favor.

unless it was a race, then falcons ship would win its fast as H3LL

but wait wasnt falcon a bounty hunter? people ask... well yeah but Falco's character leaves a lot less of the what if... just look at the size of his bazooka thing he carries around in star fox assualt...

LuVr said:

Falco would win for the obvious reason that in a game, falco is aggressive and trained to fight.. he flies a fighter, where as captain falcon is a racer... no real weapons or fighting style minus the one presented to him in brawl... the only reason he even came out of his vehicle at all was because of the smash bros series. Stand alone and fighting, Falco makes sense, and although I love captain falcon I would have to point this in falco's favor.

unless it was a race, then falcons ship would win its fast as H3LL

but wait wasnt falcon a bounty hunter? people ask... well yeah but Falco's character leaves a lot less of the what if... just look at the size of his bazooka thing he carries around in star fox assualt...

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You obviously haven't seen the F-Zero anime, nor read the manga adaptations.

We're all talking about Blue Falcon, but you're forgetting his OTHER ship.

The Falcon Flyer is way (****ING) faster than the Blue Falcon.

daisho said:

What a horribly stupid and uneductated post...

1) So then falco and falcon shouldn't have guns because those are part of lore...

2) The arwing and racer are just part of their weapons... If someone had a horse would you include that? That is the same thing... if for some odd reason you would say no to the above question then you can say "oh well if they had those they would never fight each other" well snake would never either... if he had some sort of sniper then he would never need to get close to his opponent.

3) Dude... you can't be serious... its a ****ing laser pistol... if he had a real gun then you would say the bullet would go through... but a laser pistol which is from the future and CLEARLY infinitely better wouldn't go through a piece of clothing... come on man learn to think...

4) What makes you think that is even close to true? Does falcon even leave his car in the games?? I don't know personally but I thought it was just a driving game. In the future im sure they had amazing fighting skills and developed some new type of martial arts or wtvr.

Plus falcon's gun would be ineffective since falco has a reflector.


Edit: I hope through my sarcasm and overall jerkiness you can actually see my points... please don't take it personally.

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Chill out. No need to be rude.

daisho said:

What a horribly stupid and uneductated post...

1) So then falco and falcon shouldn't have guns because those are part of lore...

what i mean by that is that it isnt "true to their game" meaning Marth cant do stuff like "crit" and have a "defense bonus" for NO REASON

2) The arwing and racer are just part of their weapons... If someone had a horse would you include that? That is the same thing... if for some odd reason you would say no to the above question then you can say "oh well if they had those they would never fight each other" well snake would never either... if he had some sort of sniper then he would never need to get close to his opponent.

This is what happens if they fought, not if they flew around shooting each other in vehicles, this isnt Blue Falcon vs Arwing, its Falcon vs Falco

3) Dude... you can't be serious... its a ****ing laser pistol... if he had a real gun then you would say the bullet would go through... but a laser pistol which is from the future and CLEARLY infinitely better wouldn't go through a piece of clothing... come on man learn to think...

All it takes is the ability to absorb 1 shot in order to falcon to shoot falco back. Falco has no armor outside of the reflector. And theres no way he can launch it in time to reflect a bullet while firing his gun.

It also isnt just some piece of clothing, its also a futuristic piece of equipment. Look at teh protection nascar's racers wear. Now imagine what you'd need racing a **** F-ZERO car incase that crashed?

4) What makes you think that is even close to true? Does falcon even leave his car in the games?? I don't know personally but I thought it was just a driving game. In the future im sure they had amazing fighting skills and developed some new type of martial arts or wtvr.

Plus falcon's gun would be ineffective since falco has a reflector.

Falcon is a bounty hunter. In his manga/anime he regularly leaves his car and beats the **** out of people. Falco left his arwing only in starfox assualt for the multi-player.

Why would Falco be trained in any martial arts at all when his whole job is being a gun for hire, and blowing up things in space? Furthermore, he is a bird....hollow bones and all that. Falcon is known to have fighting skills on top of being very fit. Who wins hand to hand now?

Another thing is that would teh reflector reflect the bullet? In the future, as you said, Bullets are rendered "usesless", and energy projectiles are the norm. Falco's reflector was made to protect him from energy weaponry of his environment. is it desinged to reflect lead?


Edit: I hope through my sarcasm and overall jerkiness you can actually see my points... please don't take it personally.

Click to expand...

just a few responses here and there...

JOE! said:

in starfox assault fox had a lazer pistol, its reasonable to assume he has a lazer pistol as well, which we'll base of of Brawl's due to a lack of any other good source.

yet make it a bit more real in speed of the projectile, but keep the fire rate.

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I do not remember any pistol in star fox assault...

just saying

^^
I think he's referring to the blaster that Fox used on the ground missions.

Nascar drivers suits are pathetic... they are "fire resistant" meaning they won't catch on fire but they are still gonna just die to a laser pistol...

If you want to give the other points then fine... they are not so bad but there is no way that you can convince me that a thin piece of high tec future fabric will protect from a laser pistol. In any movie they ever had a laser pistol nobody has ever survived a hit even with armor... HIGH TEC armor.

And yeah, i think i wrote a story about some guy and called him falco... he had super bird strength speed and agility so yeah...

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT GAMES NOT STUPID LORE MADE UP THAT 8 PEOPLE SAW.

daisho said:

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT GAMES NOT STUPID LORE MADE UP THAT 8 PEOPLE SAW.

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Again. Chill out.

After looking it up I agree that Falcon's suit wouldn't be able to take a lazer shot, so the fight would consist of who can draw thier weapon first and fire off a shot. If they ever get to hand to hand combat Falcon would easily beat Falco since he is an Ace pilot and not a martial arts master.

IMO I believe it comes down to exactly what Crazy mofo213 said...
Who ever pulls the gun first from far off wins...(unless falco breaks out the reflector and then yeah....)
From far off...I think Falco has more skill with his blaster so I would give the match to falco

BUT....

But if falcon got close I think the fight would go to him...Falcon I think has way more versatility on the field...he has speed and power and also range so he would totally trump falco hand to hand

what we need to figure out is, how powerful can a pistol-calibur lazer be?

I mean sure, a lazer can burn through concrete, but it takes a bit and those kind certainly wont be found in a device as small as a hand held weapon...

Yeah, but those are lasers today...

We are talking about futuristic lasers that travel extremely quickly and fire extremely powerful compact blasts that kill people.

And about Falcon beating falco up close... who says thats true?

The fact that falco is a bird, thus frail, and falcon is like 1.5 times his size and rippe dout of his mind

also, when does it actually say Falco's lazer is from the future, he could just be a more advanced species, same timeframe

JOE! said:

The fact that falco is a bird, thus frail, and falcon is like 1.5 times his size and rippe dout of his mind

also, when does it actually say Falco's lazer is from the future, he could just be a more advanced species, same timeframe

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Ah yes...but Falco's laser looks very concentrated....meaning that's a LOT of heat...I don't think Falcon's nascar- esqe suit could repel firepower of that magnitude (oh snap star wars is coming back)

Also being an ultra concentrated ray of light...that is a lot of speed and heat...it may even rival a lightning strike considering that type of weaponry...

I would like to point out that Wolf supposedly wears a bullet-proof vest, so I think the threat of metallic bullets would be factored in to the design of defensive weaponry.

Also, I would like to remind everyone that the Arwing is 10x faster than the Blue Falcon and designed for combat. As for the Falcon Flyer, who the hell knows?

In a game of these two birds of prey, we must not forget that Falco's gun fires shots of concussive force, not unlike a rubber bullet. The fact that a laser beam is not solid mass, though, and the power of the gun is the particles being launched at such a sped, means that the weapon's fire, while stinging and certainly packing a punch, would not have the same stopping power of a normal bullet, for the particles would not sustain the same shape like a bullet would, and disperse after impact.

In terms of weaponry, a game of guns is a game of quick-draw.

So if the weaponry is almost even, and the armor light, who should it be that comes out on top? Captain Falcon is a well-known and well-respected martial artist, who also moonlights as a race car driver. That race car can generate a lot of force in the cockpit considering the speed that F-Zero machines can accelerate to; Falcon's body, even when working out, is conditioned to endure some tough patches.

Falcon's strong build aside, almost every part of his fighting style is greatly honed; if one were to identify Falcon's style of combat, it would be similar to a mix of Muay Thai kickboxing, a devastating style with simple execution, and other grappling arts. As many martial artists and fight enthusiasts agree, Muay Thai coupled with anything is a deadly combination; A Muay Thai practitioner's knee can generate enough concussive force to indent a human ribcage nearly 2 inches or more; scientists who have measured this on crash tests dummies say "That's like the force of a 35 MPH car crash. That impact on your chest can stop your heart".

As devastating as that sounds, rarely does an incident like that occur in most sanctioned fight arenas. Opponents in MMA typically protect themselves and lessen the damage significantly, if not at the cost of their arms. Muay Thai is still by far one of the most deadly arts for in-close combat.

Not to say that Falco is at a disadvantage; while Captain Falcon practices one of the most brutal martial art mixes to date, Falco is a highly trained, Highly skilled practitioner of Special Forces training, able to, if he gets close enough, disable and cripple opponents using powerful joint locks and deflecting strikes. Worst of all, unlike Muay Thai, Special Forces soldiers are trained to draw and use weapons while in a grapple, At close range, Falco's pistol can do devastating damage.

Edit: Brb, checking facts again.
Edit2: Whoops, I underestimated, lol.

Heroes_Never_Die said:

I would like to point out that Wolf supposedly wears a bullet-proof vest, so I think the threat of metallic bullets would be factored in to the design of defensive weaponry.

Also, I would like to remind everyone that the Arwing is 10x faster than the Blue Falcon and designed for combat. As for the Falcon Flyer, who the hell knows?

Click to expand...

The Falcon Flyer can do space travel, I believe. Someone check for me?

Blitzmidfielder said:

Not to say that Falco is at a disadvantage; while Captain Falcon practices one of the most brutal martial art mixes to date, Falco is a highly trained, Highly skilled practitioner of Special Forces training, able to, if he gets close enough, disable and cripple opponents using powerful joint locks and deflecting strikes. Worst of all, unlike Muay Thai, Special Forces soldiers are trained to draw and use weapons while in a grapple, At close range, Falco's pistol can do devastating damage.

Click to expand...

Falco is pretty fragile when it comes to hand to hand/ground combat though. I also think that Falco isn't all to skilled in fighting when it doesn't involve using an arwing. He's an ace pilot and if he were good at ground combat I think they would've sent him down to help Fox in Star Fox Assualt.

Blitzmidfielder said:

The Falcon Flyer can do space travel, I believe. Someone check for me?

Click to expand...

Just checked on it...it can travel through space...

but...regardless.... the arwing travels faster...

Too bad they won't have these to help them on the ground!

Blitzmidfielder said:

In a game of these two birds of prey, we must not forget that Falco's gun fires shots of concussive force, not unlike a rubber bullet. The fact that a laser beam is not solid mass, though, and the power of the gun is the particles being launched at such a sped, means that the weapon's fire, while stinging and certainly packing a punch, would not have the same stopping power of a normal bullet, for the particles would not sustain the same shape like a bullet would, and disperse after impact.

In terms of weaponry, a game of guns is a game of quick-draw.

So if the weaponry is almost even, and the armor light, who should it be that comes out on top? Captain Falcon is a well-known and well-respected martial artist, who also moonlights as a race car driver. That race car can generate a lot of force in the cockpit considering the speed that F-Zero machines can accelerate to; Falcon's body, even when working out, is conditioned to endure some tough patches.

Falcon's strong build aside, almost every part of his fighting style is greatly honed; if one were to identify Falcon's style of combat, it would be similar to a mix of Muay Thai kickboxing, a devastating style with simple execution, and other grappling arts. As many martial artists and fight enthusiasts agree, Muay Thai coupled with anything is a deadly combination; A Muay Thai practitioner's knee can generate enough concussive force to indent a human ribcage nearly 2 inches or more; scientists who have measured this on crash tests dummies say "That's like the force of a 35 MPH car crash. That impact on your chest can stop your heart".

As devastating as that sounds, rarely does an incident like that occur in most sanctioned fight arenas. Opponents in MMA typically protect themselves and lessen the damage significantly, if not at the cost of their arms. Muay Thai is still by far one of the most deadly arts for in-close combat.

Not to say that Falco is at a disadvantage; while Captain Falcon practices one of the most brutal martial art mixes to date, Falco is a highly trained, Highly skilled practitioner of Special Forces training, able to, if he gets close enough, disable and cripple opponents using powerful joint locks and deflecting strikes. Worst of all, unlike Muay Thai, Special Forces soldiers are trained to draw and use weapons while in a grapple, At close range, Falco's pistol can do devastating damage.

Edit: Brb, checking facts again.
Edit2: Whoops, I underestimated, lol.

Click to expand...

I like this guy, he's kinda like me when I go all out on a break-down

I was thinking about the power of the gun as well, and yeah, seeing as it has no mass, and cant be *too* powerfull due to the size of the weapon, it wont stun Falcon as bad when he's hit.

Now, who is the better marksman would you say?

Falco is a skilled arwing fighter no doubt, but how is he when the gun is in his hands?
Falcon is an experienced bounty hunter, but how often does he shoot?

Well I assume Falcon has a pretty good shot because after all he is a bounty hunter therefore he must have some gun training. However, I don't know about Falco. All though he has excellent aim in an Arwing it's hard to figure out if he has ever recieved any training with a blaster.

Since it's just a matter of who shoots who first, I suggest to call that one a draw and move on to the next stage. IF they somehow manage to miss eachother and come close, Falcon would win, due to superior strenght and fighting skill.
So we've got two battles, two outcomes.

Distance - Draw
CQC - Captain Falcon wins

(JOE!, you COULD apply this to many other battles where certain properties of characters clash with eachother, just state the possible settings like I have done now, and out of those settings, a winner will rise :~)!)

THE BREAKDOWN​

WEAPONARY

Falco's Laser pistol packs a lethal shot of energy, which can tear though any armor. However, it doesnt pack quite the punch of a bullet, so if he doesnt get a lethal shot on the first volley, he isnt "stopping" Falcon.

The captain weilds a pistol-like firearm, and is an excellent shot due to experience as a bounty hunter. It is up for debate however if Falco can reflect lead bullets, or if he needs a bullet-proof vest like Wolf. (Wolf has the vest AND a reflector)

THE EDGE: DRAW

Falco and Falcon can both easily finish each other at range, and each has a way of dealing with each other's weaponary, either through sheer toughness or reflection.



ARMOR

Neither opponent is truly armored. However, Falcon has his natural toughness and suit, while Falco has his reflector.

His reflector may be able to protect him from projectiles, yet he cannot do anything else while holding it up, making him vulnerable to a rush into melee..

His suit can absorb some of the heat from a laser blast, but not much. What will really save him is his natural toughness due to his history bounty-hunting and fighting. If Falco hits him in a non lethal area, he will be able to shrug it off.

THE EDGE: DRAW

Both combatants have armor, yet they both either provide very limited protection, or create a huge opening for their opponent...



SKILL

he is an ace pilot, for sure, as well as a trained mercenary. He can sureley fire a gun, yet little is known as to his skills of gunmanship out of the arwing. He may have some hand-to-hand training as well, yet it's doubtful he ever uses it in his world of arwing fights.

An experienced bounty hunter and martial artist, Falcon is a well rounded fighter in both ranged and melee combat.

THE EDGE: DRAW

Falco and Falcon both have training/experience in ranged and in melee combat. Where as Falco may be a bit better in range, and Falcon in melee.



PHYSIQUE

Is a humanoid bird, with great power in his arms and legs. Yet, he is small in stature and frail due to being so light.

Falcon is a bit bigger than your average man, and extremely muscular. He is quick, strong and has incredible stamina to match.

THE EDGE: CAPTAIN FALCON

The Captain takes this round. Falco may be strong and quick, but Falcon can match and may well surpass him. On top of that, he is much sturdier than Falco when it comes to taking a hit, pulling him ahead.




This match is probably the closest so far of the contests. Both opponents were equal at range, in skill and in armor. yet, Captain Falcon pulls ahead when it comes to hand-to-hand combat.

Ratio out of 1000 battles: 518/482​

If they start at range, it is dead even, relying on who shoots first. (and where the majority of the kills come from)

From there, it depends on the shot. If it is non lethal on Falcon, he can keep going due to him able to shrug off the minor impact, as well as lessening the burn by a fraction. If Falco is quick enough to get his reflector up, he is vulnerable to being rushed by Falcon.

At that point, Falcon can approach in either scenario. Falco can try fighting back, but Falcon's speed and strength, as well as martial arts expertise should let him manhandle Falco. Once he has the blue bird in his clutches, It's game over.

If your gonna say hes light like a bird than he should be able to fly... just putting it out there.

And what is with you and thinking that Falcons suit can withstand a laser blast... just untrue...

his "wings" are no where big enough to support him in flight

Falcon's suit will marginally absorb some heat, not protect him. If anything it will let him shrug off a non-lethal shot a little bit more. If at all.

JOE! said:

I like this guy, he's kinda like me when I go all out on a break-down

I was thinking about the power of the gun as well, and yeah, seeing as it has no mass, and cant be *too* powerfull due to the size of the weapon, it wont stun Falcon as bad when he's hit.

Now, who is the better marksman would you say?

Falco is a skilled arwing fighter no doubt, but how is he when the gun is in his hands?
Falcon is an experienced bounty hunter, but how often does he shoot?

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tsk tsk tsk...size doesn't always mattter..
it's force is a simple law of physics....

you could take something like a balled up paper...shoot it through a turbo and kill someone with it...that laser follows suit....

honestly dont c the point in this conversation but im on c.falcons side.falco might b good w. a gun who knows but falcon has more experience and training with a gun.

bow master1 said:

honestly dont c the point in this conversation but im on c.falcons side.falco might b good w. a gun who knows but falcon has more experience and training with a gun.

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Tsk Tsk Tsk...
Falco has plenty of firearm...training...
they're space mercenaries for crying out loud....we all know mercs got skill...

Marthage said:

tsk tsk tsk...size doesn't always mattter..
it's force is a simple law of physics....

you could take something like a balled up paper...shoot it through a turbo and kill someone with it...that laser follows suit....

Click to expand...

all im saying is that the lasers you see brurning through thinks like bullet proof glass and concrete blocks take a whole room devoted to their power.

Even if it is futuristic tech, the size of Falco's gun limits how strong the laser can be


besides, I believe 5-6 pages is enough for this debate, Ill eb posting the new matchup momentarily.

JOE! said:

all im saying is that the lasers you see brurning through thinks like bullet proof glass and concrete blocks take a whole room devoted to their power.

Even if it is futuristic tech, the size of Falco's gun limits how strong the laser can be


besides, I believe 5-6 pages is enough for this debate, Ill eb posting the new matchup momentarily.

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ehh...I guess I'll take that... Getting pumped for the new matchup!

I think Ness wins this match.

- Ness was instinctively telepathic and telekinetic. Lucas, on the other hand, had to learn how to use PSI.

- Ness is tougher mentally, being brave and strong. Lucas is kind of crybaby, though he does become stronger later.

- Ness focused around attack PSI where as Lucas was best at assist PSI.

- Ness is older than Lucas.

- Ness defeated Gigyas.

Ness vs. Lucas....
I honestly have no background to help lean anywhere with this matchup....

So I'll go based off of certain hunches derived from brawl....
Ness seems to definitely have better control over his PSI powers than Lucas and Ness's PSI seems a bit more potent than Lucas's

so right now... ness 2, lucas 0

Lucas seems to have a lot more agility than ness....I mean he's not wearing a backpack....
so ness 2, lucas 1

Ness seems a lot more confident and experienced in his skill while Lucas gives off the feeling that he is not so skillful with the PSI (derived from SSE cutscene)
so ness 3, lucas 1

That's all I can think of so I'll go towards ness for this matchup....

disregarding PSI abilities for the moment, lets look at their weaponary

Baseball bat, Yo-Yo

A big stick, Rope snake

BAT vs STICK

The baseball bat is self explanatory....the other is a ****ing stick

YO-YO vs ROPE SNAKE

The ropesnake seems like the better tool than the yo-yo, it has a grasper on the end and seems very tough. The yo-yo on the other hand is smaller, and wont do much damage, as well as being as tough as the string it's on.


Any experts on PSI abilities from the games out there?

JOE! said:

disregarding PSI abilities for the moment, lets look at their weaponary

Baseball bat, Yo-Yo

A big stick, Rope snake

BAT vs STICK

The baseball bat is self explanatory....the other is a ****ing stick

YO-YO vs ROPE SNAKE

The ropesnake seems like the better tool than the yo-yo, it has a grasper on the end and seems very tough. The yo-yo on the other hand is smaller, and wont do much damage, as well as being as tough as the string it's on.


Any experts on PSI abilities from the games out there?

Click to expand...

Check Heroes never die's post...Ness focused more on Attack PSI while Lucas focused on assist PSI...

I personally don't have a clue as to all the PSI attacks in itself...I never really reached into the earthbound series...

Although I think Ness would win, you've got some things wrong here.

Heroes_Never_Die said:

I think Ness wins this match.

- Ness was instinctively telepathic and telekinetic. Lucas, on the other hand, had to learn how to use PSI.

PK Love was unlocked from Lucas' mind, not taught, and the rest he realized himself, just like Ness. Also, remember that a monkey taught Ness PSI teleport.

- Ness is tougher mentally, being brave and strong. Lucas is kind of crybaby, though he does become stronger later.

- Ness focused around attack PSI where as Lucas was best at assist PSI.

They both pretty much have the same PSI moves in their games, except I think that Lucas has offence and defence up/down.

- Ness is older than Lucas.

Their ages are never mentioned in-game.

- Ness defeated Gigyas.

Technically, it was Paula

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But I think Ness would win, as since there is no magic (PSI), Ness Bat & Yo-yo > Stick.

EDIT: Also, Lucas does not have the Magicant bonuses that Ness does which pretty much turns him into am indestructable tank.

Cacti said:

Although I think Ness would win, you've got some things wrong here.



But I think Ness would win, as since there is no magic (PSI), Ness Bat & Yo-yo > Stick.

EDIT: Also, Lucas does not have the Magicant bonuses that Ness does which pretty much turns him into am indestructable tank.

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in this match we are including PSI, seeing as they both have it

Thanks for the corrections.

As far as PSI abilities go, I think Ness had more talent for it since he showed signs as a baby, but their PSI abilities are pretty much equal.

The Earthbound wiki lists Ness as 14 at the end of Earthbound and Lucas as 12.

The fact that Ness even fought against Gigyas makes him pretty tough (not that Lucas had it easy).

I think the deciding factor is that Ness has a tougher mindset and wouldn't hold back at all during a fight, where as Lucas may hesitate a lot.

JOE! said:

in this match we are including PSI, seeing as they both have it

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Ness' PSI abilities are PSI Flash, PSI Rockin', Healing, Life-Up, Hypnosis, Paralysis, Shield, and Teleport.

Lucas' PSI abilities are PSI Love, PSI Flash, Life-Up, Refresh, Healing, Offense Up, Defense Up, Counter, PSI Counter, Shield, and PSI Shield.

Dryn said:

Ness' PSI abilities are PSI Flash, PSI Rockin', Healing, Life-Up, Hypnosis, Paralysis, Shield, and Teleport.

Lucas' PSI abilities are PSI Love, PSI Flash, Life-Up, Refresh, Healing, Offense Up, Defense Up, Counter, PSI Counter, Shield, and PSI Shield.

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do all of Lucas's abilities work on himself, or only on another party member?

(the ones like Offense up, Heal, etc)

i... don't have any input. I'm a MA researcher, and these are kids with psychic powers. ._.

I'm not even going to pretend I know, but I think Ness might win.