Lucario Brainstorm Thread (Updating Soon.)

LordoftheMorning said:

I was just about to bump this too. Alright. I suppose it's time I do some updates. We should probably see about finding some new ideas as well. Good stuff SSK.

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thanks I'm really trying to help out with the boards. I need a little help experimentiing this though. Anyone want to help.

LordoftheMorning said:

I added your stuff to the OP. I'll probably try it out later today just to get a feel for it. It's possible you could even extend the combo beyond the Nair. I find that I can often land jabs or grabs after using a Fair>Nair combo. I might try it out on some lighter characters as well.

I think the Dash Attack knockback find is pretty interesting. We can probably find more ways to use it as well.

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it was really weird when I first encountered it. then I figured out on how to make it knock forward.

I might be hyping this a little too much, but should I post my find in a separate thread? It has some rough edges, and isn't a true "tech chase" anymore, but it's pretty simple but pretty good too. (when you find out, it's hard to believe that it hasn't been found or expanded on in the past several months.

ahem. *opens door, people chant* POST POST POST POST!

post it here phil, too many threads active as it is.

yea phil go ahead and post it here the exact same post you did that you sent me over.

Okay, I'm posting this info stuff to both lucario BRs (and now these boards ), so here it goes:
Late one evening, I was getting really, really frustrated in practice mode. I was looking for ways to trick an opponent into a grab, and every time the grab range on both grabs were just so tiny to manage. I started looking at FP, and how fair could connect reliably after it. Then I wondered "jab is usually a good thing to try to get a grab off, it's faster than most of the grabs and has more range". I started to wonder, what could jab really do? I got a spark, started jabbing, went for FP, and then I tried jab. "No, doesn't really work" I thought to myself (was toying with a fox I think). Then I forgot the big thing: You had to walk to FPCG most of the time, surely it would work with jab. So I worked around a bit, AA-FP, or sometimes A-FP, then I walked slowly, jabbed, and sure enough, I nailed him, and could get the FP again. The real trick behind it is it takes some tricky DI for some characters to get out of the jabs (and spotdodge or such), but that's where the "pseudo-tech chase" mentality comes in. You really have several options:
AA (usual)
A (good to throw off timing if they were used to the standard)
jab cancelled AA/A- kind of risky, but will punish spotdodge and help if you didn't get close enough at times)
AS/aerial- for that occasional "OMG he's flying away while AD!" moment.
and of course, shield, for the really rare 1 frame jabs (most of the time, you don't need to worry about invincible upBs, they're really risky since jab usually picks them up).
The beauty of this is FP is also an option for this, the pseudo-chase is designed so beautifully, becausein order to release, FP needs to be predicted BEFORE it begins. jab mixups mess up the opponent's timing, also somewhat extends the max % you can CG them with (it can let you do it usually to get in a dash grab or something before they fly away too far for you to do anything reliable). It also sets up well for offstage walling since FP does so well at setting up fairs.
If they get the rare occurance that they go far away from the jabs, almost everytime they will do spotdodge/AD, that's when AS or fair really work.

This wasn't entirely as big as I hoped for, but I feel it's pretty solid, and kind of puts FP shenanigans back on the map, and best of all, this seems to work best against D3 and snake (some of our worst matchups where we really need to get a reliable percent lead). I bet in time that this will get a little more worn out and slightly more predictable, but I feel it boosts lucario's damage racking and ground game a bit more.

I don't know if this has been discovered before (I wasn't aware of it, and checked a bit to make sure), and it seems pretty useful, considering that it can be adjusted to both players %'s (I think ideally lucario can do this up until about his percent hits the 20-30 percent mark, but haven't tested much)
What I've tested:
D3 (human opponent)
DK (human opponent)
Bowser (human opponent)
snake (human opponent)

Questions? Comments? Concerns? Kapeesh?

Now to name it if it takes off...
I was thinking Close Combat (canonical pokemon attack), or even SCIENCE! lol. I was going to do some more testing, but I felt it was more important for lucarios going to Genesis to know a possible tool.

what phil posted makes a lot sense. so phil made the best post for this thread hands down. Its true what he is saying. We Lucario's need to start mixing up our jabs more often. Because now people already know the standard jab jab Force Palm. so we need to mix it up with jab to force Palm or even jab cancel to force palm and grab and such or even to Fair etc.

Nice find! but seems to be escapable if they know what your going to do.. Still, its great ima try this later. (should be called close combat lol)

I posted my thoughts about it in the backroom. Also, the other back rooms prob. need to go lol.

iRJi said:

Also, the other back rooms prob. need to go lol.

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Pffft.

Not mine, of course.

The real trick is that you CANNOT stand where you are and jab for most of them (besides, you don't want to do that to a snake if he happened to drop a nadlol nade while you're doing this. You have to slowly walk towards your opponent, the reason why you can get the jab in is the same reason the FP could regrab a character before they could do anything.
Be patient, when I first did this I kept doing ftilt accidentally lol, and yes Aurasmash, it is escapable, but if you've been mixing up with jabs occasionally, it should do really well.
Also, I find it loads easier to Hold A for the jabs then switch to FP. You also need to get a handle on when you need to stop walking and jab instead, other wise he'll shield.

This is a typical example of how it works (like I said though, it really is a mixup that will consist of mostly AA, but throw in the others to throw off timing):

AA-FP (you can do another FP if you really want to), walk slowly, AA-FP, walk again, A-FP, walk, AA-jab cancel AA-FP, walk, A-either usually grab, FP, or finish the jab. Also if you choose FP, or a good setup throw (usually uthrow or dthrow sometimes), you'll usually have them off the edge and you can do fair shenanigans.
Is it as safe as snake dthrow tech-chases? Probably not.
Is it safe overall? Decently.
What damage are we talking? Usually in the 40-50s, not counting the finishing throw or aerial string.

Trela said:

Pffft.

Not mine, of course.

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probably not because you running it and RJ isn't so. Trela where you've been at. you haven't posted here in a while.

wait, exactly how much damage does this tech do?

Read my previous post, it should say at the bottom^
However, I should say it's extremely dependent on how much damage they could take from the old FPCG. I want to test wolf because of the shine, but if I recall, shine wasn't a problem for the FPCG, so I think it could be good.

Since it can be combined into an aerial combo... are we potentially looking at 60% damage? Especially if ended with Dair as a finishing move.

if so.... this find is amazing!

we only now need to wait for timbers to come and say how an attack like this can go horribly wrong. rofl.

Oh I get what your saying instead of doing the old jab to Force Palm to force palm. we could jab>forcepalm> jab >forcepalm.

Yes, except with walking in between to connect.

By the sounds of it, it looks like its really DI dependant, since people can actually DI of the jabs. runs along the lines of a mind game thing.

It could probably work. I want to check this out. wow great find also.

I expected Timbers to ay something like that rofl. if its another "who cares its as escapable as the old Jab>Jab>FP" its definitely much more complicated, you can also SH and begin with the usual Fair-Nair if they escape, and has a lot of other escape and backup options. Dtilt, Dsmash, Ftilt, Uptilt, Fsmash, rolling, lots of options if they escape and retaliate (lol rhyme) . Besides, it looks wicked.

sorry double post.

I would much rather take to the air before they retaliate, (because im just more comfortable where i can Dair. lol)

hey phil I'm a make a video of this right now to see if I know what your talking about. Please prove me wrong ok.

dont forget to put in the link.

Aurasmash14 said:

dont forget to put in the link.

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what the link of the video, yea. oh yea people sorry if its horrible quality btw. give me a minute its being processed right now.

ok here it is the Close Combat video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdIR9pEkAoo

you had a near miss in the 4th jab, but otherwise ok. when i tried it It was a little closer, and went to the air at around 45%

Aurasmash14 said:

you had a near miss in the 4th jab, but otherwise ok. when i tried it It was a little closer, and went to the air at around 45%

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I think thats what phil was talking about then right. really it doesn't look like it could be DI'd

They could smash DI out of the Jab, but you can still cath them in the FPG if fast enough i think

Aurasmash14 said:

They could smash DI out of the Jab, but you can still cath them in the FPG if fast enough i think

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probably, well all we know is that it has to be tested more.

Agreed.. Give it 3 days and we'll see the results.

Aurasmash14 said:

Agreed.. Give it 3 days and we'll see the results.

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yep true that my fellow Lucario main. lol

Phil, you still need to clarify it a bit better. Even I am a bit lost in what you are talking about lol. I somewhat get the idea though.

SuperSmashKing009 said:

ok here it is the Close Combat video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdIR9pEkAoo

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That's pretty much it, if they have a smaller hurtbox you'll want to buffer walking earlier obviously, but you've got it. Yeah, I figured DI could still do some stuff, although it still becomes a matter of reading them and punishing.
@ RJ:
Watch the vid link, it's pretty much what you do except with characters that are smaller you'll want to buffer walking in more.