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Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

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PKNintendo

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
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Throw mods were something we were planning for Lucas for a while now.

The U-throw is supposed to kill now, yes. It'll kill Mario on the middle of F.D around 148% with DI. However, Lucas has an incredible pummel, so if you can land a nearly guaranteed 4 pummels (12%) on him at high percents, the actual killing percent is 136% as of when you grab him, plus or minus depending on your opponents break out skills.

The d-throw was tricky. As you're probably aware, it stops setting up for anything good by 40-50ish% on many characters... and that's his best setup throw. Now, the problem with just decreasing the KB growth on it is that if it's much less, you can land a guaranteed U-smash on a disturbingly high amount of the cast into mid-high percents. The only way to make the move better is to change it. I suggested making it more of a tech-chasing move, as that will play to his ground strengths. Shanus came up with the throw in the set, and although I haven't tested it extensively yet, I think it will compliment his game quite nicely.

Totally dig this idea.
Awesome!

Geez, Downthrow to Upsmash would be the hottest thing since sliced bread.
 

FrozenHobo

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
5,272
Location
Nowhere Land
I'd really like Sonic's level back on the Stage Select screen, at least SOMEWHERE. Kinda lame that Bigblue is up there, but Green Hill isn't.

And am I correct, or are Hannenbow and Green Hill the only removed stages? If so, wtf.
MY SSS has GHZ... *coughhypecough*
 

PKNintendo

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
3,679
Hehe, I just gimped Falco with it.

I jumped infront of him, and used the psi magnet. Ness took the hit and pushed him back.
It's like having an invisible fludd that's always charged.
 

Magus420

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Messages
4,541
Location
Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
I'll quote my post from the WBR regarding some of the Weegee changes:

I've been meaning to do so for a while, and with the working throw mod in place I experimented and reworked/polished some of Luigi's moves over the weekend for others to test out as well. My aim wasn't to make him a more effective character overall (he's a very good character), but to see if I could cut back on the dumb crap and guaranteed repetitive combos he has (see u-air, its 55 angle, not causing tumble till like 40%, leading into itself, and often being unavoidable regardless of DI off of d-throw), and possibly make him a more interesting and dynamic character that's more mixup oriented and with more creative combos/strings.

I spent quite a few hours fine tuning the numbers on many of these to be just right. After logging some 5+ hours of playtesting with Ryoko with these tweaks in place I think Luigi's a blast to play as now and requires a bit more thought to use. He seems to be pretty balanced overall compared to without the changes, though perhaps slightly worse against floaties and a little better against faster fallers.

There's a few things I added/adjusted later on and after the playtesting I did this weekend. They may need tweaking to get the appropriate numbers.


D-Throw: 75->75 BKB; 30->30 KBG; 80°->75°
08064B1E 00000050
064B1E00 0000004B
The angle on this throw was high enough where even when DI'd properly would allow followup with an u-air for near inescapable u-air combos on a lot of characters at low damage and n-air/u-smash/pivot or DC f-smash/character specifically up-B to kill. On floatier characters you could d-throw -> u-air -> u-air -> grab/jab regrab -> d-throw -> u-air -> possible followup for around 55 damage from very low percents.

No reason not to use d-throw, no reason not to DI the d-throw Luigi will always do away, and no reason not to use u-air to combo off the throw with it's high angle and high tumble damage threshold makes for some very effective but rather repetitive combos and followups. The lower angle allows them to get further away when DI'd properly and not be autocomboed nearly as much into solid combo and KO moves regardless of what they do.



U-Throw: 70->72 BKB; 72->38 KBG; 90°->100°
08084648 0000005A
08482600 00000064
Similar to d-throw but with slightly more initial KB, more growth, and sends up and slightly behind. The distance from 90° is the same as the default d-throw, but it's not as comboable as that when DI'd probably from a combination of having to turn around first and perhaps slightly more lag.

The mixup here with the d-throw actually sets them up in various places since they'll now have reason to not always DI away when grabbed, and be trying to followup from not just 2 launch directions 90% of the time (missed DI on d-throw and DI'd away d-throw to minimize the ****), and often hitting them with the same crap out of the throw over and over again every stock.

It also mixes up with the f-throw change below around 5-15 or so to set up things like reverse f-air to reverse u-air to stuff, or reverse f-air to d-air meteor to possible ground combo if they miss the tech or techchase, going directly into the d-air meteor which could be just below the tumble range depending on weight and into a n-air during the ground stun, etc.



F-Throw: 60->32 BKB; 65->100 KBG; 45°->40°
08093C41 0000002D
09206400 00000028
The slightly lower angle makes it enough of a threat to throw in sometimes at high damage if you predict them DIing away expecting a d-throw. Causes tumble when used in the 9-14 area. Before then it's possible to get 1 regrab with very good timing on most characters by dashing just the right distance into a dashgrab. It's a very fast throw overall and a successful f-throw regrab can be used to mess with their DI on the 2nd throw since if they DI in they could get regrabbed/comboed off another f-throw or reflexively DI away or something, so you could use that to try and set up favorable DI on an u-throw. It's pretty sexy looking when you pull it off directly into a throw since it happens pretty fast. To give an idea of something similar it's like the single f-throw regrab Marth often uses in Melee to spacies at close to 0%. Some can likely sidestep or invincible attack you out of it.


U-Air (Strong): 100->95 KBG; 0->15 BKB; 55°->55°
080D6400 00037033
0D5F0F00 00370000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
The 55 angle combined with it not causing tumble until 40ish (and thus being directional DIable) made for some rather dumb and repetitive combos. You could also get it guaranteed off d-throw even when DI'd, and often do lots of near unavoidable damage to slower falling characters with stuff like grab to u-airs to regrab/jab regrab to u-air again. It's often pretty much THE combo aerial in that range by outclassing his other comboable airs in both angle and tumble percent.

The increase in BKB makes it cause tumble and be DIable in the lower 20s, so if you jab grab, d-throw, u-air, u-air the 2nd u-air will usually be DIable to avoid a regrab except maybe on heavier characters, but heavy characters are more difficult to combo off his throws anyway with the slowdown on the throw's animation from weight.

The slight reduction in KBG is to compensate for the added base.



F-Air: 80->72 KBG; 30->30 BKB; (40)°->(40)°
080A501E 00169033
0A481E00 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
Used to cause tumble around 20%. The reduced growth extends that to around 30ish, and can also combo at later damages if they DI in. The short duration and ease of reverse hitting with it make it a pretty flexible combo move that can combo into things like reverse u-airs and d-airs (meteor hit) for some neat combos.


D-Air: 100->100 KBG; 20->20 BKB; (40)°->(40)°; 0.75x size
080B6414 00169033
0B641400 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F400000
D-Air (Meteor): 100->7 KBG; 20->63 BKB; 270°->270°; 1.4x size; 11->8 Dmg
080B6414 0010E033
08073F00 010E0000
FFFFFFFF 3FB33333
The meteor on the d-air is so absurdly difficult to hit with if for some reason you wanted to use it and isn't even that great that it's more of an easter egg than anything. It's actually not even included in the thread about meteor KB rankings and data (last I checked anyway) because the OP couldn't even land the thing enough to get the info for it. It's basically a small hitbox on his arms, and you need to only hit with that hitbox and somehow avoid contact with the hitbox covering most of his body and legs. Considering how his body is positioned diagonally during the move you can't even space it horizontally since in the front his legs will connect and in the back his shoulders will connect. Vertically, his shoulders will connect when underneath them and his legs will connect when above them. They need to be spaced perfectly either above and in front or spaced below and behind, and you'll get an underwhelming meteor for it.

The hitbox size changes allow for you to space the move underneath them to get it as well as with your back facing them from the side. It might barely reach in front more than the legs hit but it's not that reliable.

The combination of high base and very low growth have it start causing tumble somewhere around 15-20ish so that it is techable and doesn't allow silly repeating weak n-air/u-tilt -> d-air vertical combos (that ain't Falco). The KB overall is really weak and would rarely ever actually kill anyone offstage unless you hit them well below the edge or something.

The growth part prevents dumb up-B combos off the very high stun to distance ratio downward sending moves give to grounded opponents. You can still connect an up-B at higher damages on floatier characters, but at the ranges it would be an early kill you don't have time to react to their DI before throwing it out so it'd be very risky to try it. The growth is so low that at 999% they don't even go offscreen, lol.

The damage reduction is there because I think it's a bit more balanced with the potential for an extra hit or 2 where a combo/string might have ended with a single aerial for 12-14 dmg (depending on if they miss the tech on the d-air or if you successfully techchase). It also fits a bit better with the relatively weak KB the move now has.

Note: I originally configured it using 6 dmg. After playtesting I don't think it really needs to be quite that low in damage so I recalculated the KBG to use 8 dmg instead. I haven't retested it though so I'm not sure it's causing tumble at the percents I want with the newer dmg used here.



F-Smash (Up): 135->128 KBG; 20->20 BKB; 65°->65°
080F8714 0204102C
0F801402 00410000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
Despite it having horrible range, most people feel it's a bit too potent a KO move to be as fast as a tilt attack with the IASA on the upward angled one. Makes it kill a little later and more towards 100 if it connects.


Down-B (Ground; Linking Hits): 60->0 KBG (Both); 20->56/48 BKB; Outside: 160°->165°; Inside: 20°->165°; 1.4x size (Both)
08023C14 000A0115
02003800 00A50000
FFFFFFFF 3FB33333
08023C14 00014115
02003000 00A50000
FFFFFFFF 3FB33333
The low base and growth for the linking hits can allow them to get their shield up while in the middle of being hit with the move at low damage and then easily DI out later on when it puts them in a tumble. For whatever reason, they made the inside hitbox send outwards which doesn't really help to keep them from unintentionally flying out. There is a lot of lag on this move, and hitting them with it only to have them pop out and get you punished hard in exchange to doing 1 or 2 points of damage is not uncommon and really dumb.

Note: I originally just made the KBG/BKB adjustments and angle change (after trying all sorts of tweaks on the angles and KB), but after playtesting it it wasn't much of an improvement because Luigi simply moves way to fast during the move than the launch speed of the KB can keep up with in some cases even when limiting the amount you move during it once the move connects. I'm thinking an increase on the hitbox would more often allow it to pull someone back in who happened to catch the hitboxes in the wrong places while bouncing around when they otherwise would pop out. The range on the move isn't that great, and hopefully the increase wouldn't have much of an impact in that regard while still allowing it to do a better job at linking the hits once it does connect on someone.




N-Air (Strong): 100->95 KBG; 20->20 BKB; 90°->90°
080E6414 0005A033
0E5F1400 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
People feel that for coming out on frame 3 and being a combo starter and string breaker, it shouldn't kill as well as it does (120-140 or so with DI). It is the most reliable kill move he has though :ohwell:. Probably would kill 10% later or so. I think the whole 'Luigi can n-air to get out of just about anything' is really exaggerated but whatever *shrug*.

Note: I haven't thoroughly tested how the reduced KBG on this functions as the change was suggested later on.



Dash Attack (Linking Hits): 80->0 KBG; 1->32 BKB; (40)°->(40)°
08015001 00169026
01002000 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
lol1base1dmg. Doesn't help that the 2nd to last linking hit requires 13 stun for the final hit to actually work.

Note: Might need tweaking to get the right amount of stun and the KB being the right speed to follow Luigi's forward movement. BBrawl made the weak hits trip to make it function. Could also try that out if it works well.



Up-B (Air): 72->69 KBG; 58->58 BKB; 90°->90°
0814483A 0505A114
14453A05 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
There was supposed to already be a slight nerf in place on this and I felt it needed to be made weaker than the version I was using when playtesting with the new throw mixups, but it turns out it wasn't actually working and was still set to 72KBG. This should make it kill about 10% later with it in place. Fast fallers are more susceptible to the throw mixup into the aerial up-B at KO percents, since floatier characters can DI away to escape for the d-throw and will also avoid it off the u-throw by going too high.
 

PKNintendo

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
3,679
Thumbs Up Magus.

Your hours spent will not go in vain. What you basically did was remove the crap, and made Luigi's inpractical moves practical.

Genius, if I do say so myself.

PS: And I guess I should thank you too Shanus and Cape.
Ness isn't THAT bad. I think I'm addicted to Psi magnet, so I'll hold you for it.
(a more varied character)

But you gotta try to speed PK Flash up when you guys get a new engine. That would be pure win.

PS2: Well aside from the massive amounts of bawing (mostly from me)

How much closer did we get to completing B+?
 

Shadic

Alakadoof?
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Messages
5,695
Location
Olympia, WA
NNID
Shadoof
Just got a crash when force-ending a match...

And it shouldn't be the fault of the character textures or anything, because it was the second time I quit in a row. (Trying to get a song to appear..)
 

_clinton

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,189
God if you guys are going to change Lucas, I think you should look into making his PKT2 crash less before you look at his throws IMO...god it is an side error that another code made...it isn't a buff...

But whatever...I'm checking the new night out now...thank you
 

Lil'E

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
127
Location
Hammond (Southeastern University), LA
lol this has been in since vbrawl but I've never noticed it since who would use PSI Magnet up close against Lucario, Ike, or Marth

They can actually counter the wind hitbox... >_> How do you counter wind

I tried to PSI Magnet a Quick Draw... the SA worked, but he just countered the wind causing a stage spike.
 

Alphatron

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 5, 2008
Messages
2,269
Just got a crash when force-ending a match...

And it shouldn't be the fault of the character textures or anything, because it was the second time I quit in a row. (Trying to get a song to appear..)
Happens sometimes when mashing buttons after quitting. Although it hasn't happened to me at all.

And Lil'E, I'm pretty sure they can counter water and sing too. :(
 

_clinton

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,189
God...why did you guys have to get rid of the no cool down with Ness' PKT1? I can understand not being able to use it as many times as you want in the air...but looking at Brawl+'s speed...the move is truly worthless without that cool down buff...plus I don't see why Ness has to enter helpless animation after using PKT1 anyway...why can't you just limit it to only being able to use it one time while in the air (but you can still use your 2nd jump if you have it...I don't see that as being broken...Ness is still gimp city that way)

Plus you got rid of the PKT2 buffs if you don't mind my asking, or at least the damage buff? I'm not sure on the other yet...

I also don't really know why Magnet is only given a 3 frame start up buff with a push that while better you still have to be close to use when the other moves like it in mind (Fox's shine, Wolf's shine) don't come out on frame 20 (or so) with their special effects (instead they are almost right away).

So what I'm saying is...the wind buff is worthless w/o a faster activation time in every way (start up, and turning the magnet off)

Looking into Lucas' throw buffs...in practice I like them...but I'm not 100% sure yet (does Uthrow kill better than Dthrow did? Could someone look into that?) So I'll get back to that...I still think Lucas' recovery with Thunder2 and not crashing needs a fix though (and even though Ness' is better with not crashing...it still has some issues)

Anyway I also did some testing on Bowser's semi super armor crawl...it is a nice idea but...that thing only really protects vs. these characters projectiles:

Mario's fireball passed 300% in fact and its the same with Luigi's fireball
Diddy's peanuts...and Fox's blaster (^_^)
Falco's blaster (to 999% in fact)
Ice Climber's ice shot projectile but not the hammer's...but it also protects vs. Blizzard
Link and Tink's arrows and only the arrows...
Sheik's needles (to 999%)
Samus' homing missiles and weak charge shots
Zamus' stun gun and Dsmash (to 999%)
Pikachu's thunder jolt bolt (but not the ball)
Lucario's Aura Sphere at low power...and to a point at high power
Marth's shield breaker at very low % (20%)

So I hope you can see from this that it doesn't help much...because I really don't see how crawling will stop Falco and Sheik from throwing their needles...but whatever it could have some use...however look at what breaks through it...

All of Peach's veggies get through it
Diddy's bananas get through it (and speaking of tripping...the moves it does protect from still have their random tripping effect as well if they had one based off %)
Yoshi's eggs get through it
Wario can run him down with his bike still
Link and Tink's bombs and arrows get through it
Kirby will get though it with final cutter
MK will get though it with his tornado and drill rush
D3's babies get though it...
Wolf's blaster will get through it
Pit's arrows get through it
Samus' super missiles and the charge shot both will do their jobs
Everything Ness and Lucas have will work
The 3rd hit of Squirtle's jab will get through it at 0% (just to let you know)
It won't protect vs. Olimar's purple pikmin throw
Snake's nades will of course work
Sonic's spin dash stuff will work...

I think that it might need to be a bit stronger to deal with some other things...and I also wouldn't mind seeing his dash have these frames as well...for more than one reason:
A. Bowser's dash looks awesome and it would fit into the movement well IMO
B. It will certainly help more than his crawling towards someone...god again how will crawling slowly help with Falco and Sheik?
C. I of course am also aware that Bowser's moving fast is worse than his moving slow...so maybe the crawl should have a larger buff than a run (but still the thing should be buffed more than what it is because of some other projectiles)
 

Shell

Flute-Fox Only
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
2,042
I think that the crawl is okay as it is. The way we're doing it with CAM doesn't really allow for fine-tuning of the "faux-SA" level. The next step up would be immunity to most projectiles and jabs and many weak attacks, which is a little too far for my tastes without being able to limit it to say, when Boozer is below X percent, etc. The best thing is that it gives Boozer a tool against lasers, evening out one of his worst (in my opinion) matchups.

Once Bowser's ccc-combo breaker Nair is finished and with the possibility of PS reflect in the future, I think he's looking pretty scary.

I'm almost certain U-throw kills better than D-throw did, also.

We tried out a fix for Lucas's PKT2 crash, but it didn't work super well. We haven't forgotten about it but it's not a high priority right now.
 

CountKaiser

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 16, 2009
Messages
1,370
Location
In space
God...why did you guys have to get rid of the no cool down with Ness' PKT1? I can understand not being able to use it as many times as you want in the air...but looking at Brawl+'s speed...the move is truly worthless without that cool down buff...plus I don't see why Ness has to enter helpless animation after using PKT1 anyway...why can't you just limit it to only being able to use it one time while in the air (but you can still use your 2nd jump if you have it...I don't see that as being broken...Ness is still gimp city that way)

Plus you got rid of the PKT2 buffs if you don't mind my asking, or at least the damage buff? I'm not sure on the other yet...

I also don't really know why Magnet is only given a 3 frame start up buff with a push that while better you still have to be close to use when the other moves like it in mind (Fox's shine, Wolf's shine) don't come out on frame 20 (or so) with their special effects (instead they are almost right away).

So what I'm saying is...the wind buff is worthless w/o a faster activation time in every way (start up, and turning the magnet off)

Looking into Lucas' throw buffs...in practice I like them...but I'm not 100% sure yet (does Uthrow kill better than Dthrow did? Could someone look into that?) So I'll get back to that...I still think Lucas' recovery with Thunder2 and not crashing needs a fix though (and even though Ness' is better with not crashing...it still has some issues)

Anyway I also did some testing on Bowser's semi super armor crawl...it is a nice idea but...that thing only really protects vs. these characters projectiles:

Mario's fireball passed 300% in fact and its the same with Luigi's fireball
Diddy's peanuts...and Fox's blaster (^_^)
Falco's blaster (to 999% in fact)
Ice Climber's ice shot projectile but not the hammer's...but it also protects vs. Blizzard
Link and Tink's arrows and only the arrows...
Sheik's needles (to 999%)
Samus' homing missiles and weak charge shots
Zamus' stun gun and Dsmash (to 999%)
Pikachu's thunder jolt bolt (but not the ball)
Lucario's Aura Sphere at low power...and to a point at high power
Marth's shield breaker at very low % (20%)

So I hope you can see from this that it doesn't help much...because I really don't see how crawling will stop Falco and Sheik from throwing their needles...but whatever it could have some use...however look at what breaks through it...

All of Peach's veggies get through it
Diddy's bananas get through it (and speaking of tripping...the moves it does protect from still have their random tripping effect as well if they had one based off %)
Yoshi's eggs get through it
Wario can run him down with his bike still
Link and Tink's bombs and arrows get through it
Kirby will get though it with final cutter
MK will get though it with his tornado and drill rush
D3's babies get though it...
Wolf's blaster will get through it
Pit's arrows get through it
Samus' super missiles and the charge shot both will do their jobs
Everything Ness and Lucas have will work
The 3rd hit of Squirtle's jab will get through it at 0% (just to let you know)
It won't protect vs. Olimar's purple pikmin throw
Snake's nades will of course work
Sonic's spin dash stuff will work...

I think that it might need to be a bit stronger to deal with some other things...and I also wouldn't mind seeing his dash have these frames as well...for more than one reason:
A. Bowser's dash looks awesome and it would fit into the movement well IMO
B. It will certainly help more than his crawling towards someone...god again how will crawling slowly help with Falco and Sheik?
C. I of course am also aware that Bowser's moving fast is worse than his moving slow...so maybe the crawl should have a larger buff than a run (but still the thing should be buffed more than what it is because of some other projectiles)
The move had limited application before, and the lack of cooldown was due to the move not sending Ness into helplessness. Also, with the way the CAM works, I don't think you can put a limit to how many times it is used before you go into helplessness.

PKT2 buffs were removed because they were frivolous and didn't help ness at all.

And I don't think you read the changelist correctly. Psi magnet has a 7 frame startup, and has Super Armor until the magnet comes out. The move i meant to work like this:

Use it to absorb an attack, release, then the wind pushes the opponent away from you.

Try it out before saying it's garbage.

I'm beginning to dislike the Simna set of ness more and more because it focused too much on Ness's specials, and not enough on Ness. All the complaints I've heard about Ness are about his specials.

As for Bowser SA, it works in three levels.

Minor stun
Anything that doesn't send into tumble
Anything

In order for what you're suggesting to work, Bowser would need level 2 SA, which is a bit ridiculous.
 

Roxas215

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
1,882
Location
The World That Never Was
Sighs haven't played it yet but looking at the changelist...

Why change zards usmash? You could link it fine with a bit of practice. Zard shouldn't be able to automatically land the second swipe of his usmash as it's a ko move(Which he has alot of). Making it easier is just dumb.

Ivy now has a legit dthrow to uair? I guess this is yall answer for removing her faster leaves? Even so dthrow to uair is kinda broken seeing as how uair kills relatively early. Adding this even further proves her **** on wario ware.

I do like bowser's nair change though.
 

_clinton

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,189
The move had limited application before, and the lack of cooldown was due to the move not sending Ness into helplessness. Also, with the way the CAM works, I don't think you can put a limit to how many times it is used before you go into helplessness.
I'm aware of the reason for the lack of cool down...but when the buff of unlimited PKT1 was being talked about being removed...I was just hoping Ness would just go out of his "trance" animation faster in order to make up for it...

But...yeah I understand for the other stuff...thanks for at least bringing it up that maybe there isn't anything anyone can do anything about no freefall PKT1 overall right now...

PKT2 buffs were removed because they were frivolous and didn't help ness at all.
I could have sworn that the size buff helped with stage crashes...but yeah I'll admit the 31 damage but making it kill the same overall by lowering knock back didn't help much...the move is already on the do not get hit by attack...

And I don't think you read the changelist correctly. Psi magnet has a 7 frame startup, and has Super Armor until the magnet comes out. The move i meant to work like this:
You didn't understand my point of saying 3 frame buff...I was saying it 10-3...not it comes out on frame 3...

Use it to absorb an attack, release, then the wind pushes the opponent away from you.
Try it out before saying it's garbage.
I did try it out...but still some other things stand...such is how will it deal with things like multi hit moves when its push comes out as slow as it does?

I'm beginning to dislike the Simna set of ness more and more because it focused too much on Ness's specials, and not enough on Ness. All the complaints I've heard about Ness are about his specials.
Well in all fairness I didn't mind some of the buffs that Ness did get to his specials...

But my issue when I first came into this thing was talking about the yoyo buffs, and Utilt buffs...and I'm still on the bat as well...but I guess it is to be expected that people would have different tastes for how they want their character to work...

Can I ask why the knockback of Fair was changed again to have growth?

As for Bowser SA, it works in three levels.

Minor stun
Anything that doesn't send into tumble
Anything

In order for what you're suggesting to work, Bowser would need level 2 SA, which is a bit ridiculous.
Oh ok...well I didn't know it worked on "levels." Thanks for that (I thought is was more or less based on the knock back of the move) but what about the run super armor idea?
 

cAm8ooo

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
1,059
Location
Kentucky
LMAO. CAPE FAILS. HE FORGOT TO GIVE BOOZER'S BACKWARDS CRAWL SA. IT ONLY WORKS WITH A FORWARD CRAWL. ROFL.

GG Cape. You fail hard.

It would be pretty useless to crawl backwards when the opponent is shooting you. Crawling towards them while being backwards means your taking a projectile up the ***. Do YOU think you can take a projectile up the *** without flinching?????? I think not.


You fail Neko.
 

Blank Mauser

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
2,904
Location
Iowa
Sighs haven't played it yet but looking at the changelist...

Why change zards usmash? You could link it fine with a bit of practice. Zard shouldn't be able to automatically land the second swipe of his usmash as it's a ko move(Which he has alot of). Making it easier is just dumb.

Ivy now has a legit dthrow to uair? I guess this is yall answer for removing her faster leaves? Even so dthrow to uair is kinda broken seeing as how uair kills relatively early. Adding this even further proves her **** on wario ware.

I do like bowser's nair change though.
Ivy's Uthrow to Uair was already pretty legit, it was just sort of limited to crucial percents. Also, the leaves were made to have less lag. They are the same speed and have the same if not better follow-ups, just aren't as spammable.
 

GHNeko

Sega Stockholm Syndrome.
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
20,009
Location
テキサス、アメリカ
NNID
GHNeko
It would be pretty useless to crawl backwards when the opponent is shooting you. Crawling towards them while being backwards means your taking a projectile up the ***. Do YOU think you can take a projectile up the *** without flinching?????? I think not.


You fail Neko.

...what? wtf are you talking about. Crawling backwards doesnt show your *** to your opponent. You're facing your opponent moving backwards you idiot. :V

And yes, you want SA want crawling backwards, especially against a Falco who is MOMENTUM-BOOST SHORT HOP DOUBLE PYEW PYEW HAPPY.

Why?

It's called SPACING, ******.

You fail harder than Cape son.
 

Roxas215

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
1,882
Location
The World That Never Was
Omg so after playing it zards usmash is horrible. plza change it back to how it was.

And ivy's dsmash to uair was "pretty legit" when people didnt know they could di it. But now they dont even have the option of di. O well.
 

_clinton

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,189
So, is there a reason why after 5 hours of testing, I've found absolutely no use for this supposedly buffed PSI Magnet? It doesn't seem to push the enemy any more than it did before ;[
It pushes them further...please look again...
 

GPDP

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
927
In preparation for the new engine codes, I've been busy tweaking characters' gravity settings to see how fast I can get them to perform. So far, I've got some interesting results.

How interesting? Well, if any of you are curious as to how Brawl+ characters would be like if their physics were much like those of their Melee counterparts, keep an eye out for my next post, when I'll have something for you all to play with.
 

GHNeko

Sega Stockholm Syndrome.
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
20,009
Location
テキサス、アメリカ
NNID
GHNeko
Guys. Usmash was borched on accident. :V

Also, deadlands fails. Even with 1/5, what made deadlands, deadlands was the two platforms in the center. You dont even see them now. :V
 

dabridge

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 21, 2008
Messages
234
Location
El Paso, Texas
I like Pit's new 40%, it makes his dair and nair a lot more useful now without having to worry with the endlag. His Up-B makes wingdashing awesome lol a little unfair actually.

Ness was perfect imo in the last nightly, not sure how this new one changes him since I haven't had a human player Ness to fight against. He wasn't changed much, was he? Oh, and any plans to bring Deadlands back? I hate having the mansion so much that I keep putting in the Deadlands code manually, and taking out the SSS since it messes up replays. Is that ever going to get fixed? If it isn't then it isn't worth it.
 

5ive

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
2,008
Location
USA USA USA
Oh, and any plans to bring Deadlands back? I hate having the mansion so much that I keep putting in the Deadlands code manually, and taking out the SSS since it messes up replays. Is that ever going to get fixed? If it isn't then it isn't worth it.
Exactly how I feel and I also keep manually putting in Deadlands. But the SSS issue; does it affect replays by making them unwatchable? Or is it just the thumbnails for the replays that get messed up?
 

Skip2MaLoo

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
1,293
uh..why is falcon getting useless stuff that wasn't asked for...I mean, you can't do much to improve CF. a lower uthrow would be a start but his dthrow stuff and up b wtf(I don't consider these buffs or nerfs..they are just what the fhucks)..are u guys really that bored? lmao oh yea but I forgot, falcon's too good.
anyway, charizards usmash doesn't work, well, it doesn't work on falcon. it sets up for a tech chase but I guess that's pretty cool.
lol, charizard tech chasing
 

Roxas215

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
1,882
Location
The World That Never Was
Yea the sss isn't worth it if its messing up replays. The sss doesn't even save a second from picking the stage u want.

And i manually add deadlands to. Put deadlands back.
 

CountKaiser

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 16, 2009
Messages
1,370
Location
In space
Exactly how I feel and I also keep manually putting in Deadlands. But the SSS issue; does it affect replays by making them unwatchable? Or is it just the thumbnails for the replays that get messed up?
I think it's only the thumbnails
 

Perfect Chaos

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Messages
3,885
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
NNID
PerfectChaos7
So because the new SSS bugged me so much, due to there being a good amount of stages unselectable, I took the time to actually figure out how the code worked on my own. The last part of the SSS code I'm not completely sure about, but so far, I haven't encountered any problems.

It's slightly modified from the one I posted here before (switching Big Blue to the main page and Hanenbow to the alternate page). Here's what it looks like now: http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n223/Perf_Chaos/SSS2.jpg
All other stages are on the "Melee" Stage screen. The only stage that's completely missing is 75m, but that is actually a good thing. Before, setting 75m to random is the only way to get the Wi-Fi Waiting Room stage to be selected as random, but that has the side effect of it randoming 75m on occasions as well. With this, it only randoms WFWR when you have "75m" set to "on" on the Random Stage Switch.

For those that want the SSS that I put together and am currently using, here it is:

Code:
* 066B1E64 00000048
* 7F43D378 7F24CB78
* 480070E5 80180040
* 2C000002 41820010
* 2C030029 41820078
* 4800005C 4B9FD78D
* 2C030033 41810068
* 2C030028 41810048
* 2C030024 41810058
* 4800003C 60000000
* 046B1F04 4800002C
* 046B8F5C 7C802378
* 046B8F64 7C6300AE
* 040AF618 5460083C
* 040AF6AC 5463083C
* 040AF6C0 88030001
* 006B929C 00000022
* 066B99D8 00000022
* 04112609 1B052117
* 080A1C24 22231D27
* 1603200D 250B1002
* 0C060E14 2800011A
* 150F0000 00000000
* 006B92A4 00000008
* 066B9A58 00000008
* 07121918 131F1E29
* 06407AAC 00000062
* 01010202 03030404
* 05050606 37640808
* 0909330A 0B0B0C0C
* 0D0D0E0E 130F1410
* 15111612 17131814
* 19151C16 1D171E18
* 1F19201A 211B221C
* 231D241E 251F2932
* 2A332B34 2C352D36
* 2F373038 3139323A
* 2E3B0064 26642832
* 34053504 36110707
* 38070000 00000000
I don't know if I'm allowed to post the code for this SSS of mine here, though. If I'm not, just tell me and I'll edit it out.

Anyway, I like the fact that Ness got toned down a bit. Simna went a little bit overboard with the Ness buffs. Also, the strong wind of Ness's PSI Magnet is quite fun to play with. :laugh:
I have a question: does making Bowser's f-smash sweetspot a slash type instead of having fire do anything to the move other than visual effects? I kind of miss the fire effect, but if it being a slash type helps him, then I guess it should be that way.
As for Charizard's u-smash: the change was supposed to make it link better, but I think it had the opposite effect. Now, the only way to link them is if you do a running u-smash, but even then, it still doesn't connect that well. The first hitbox hits kind of like a semi-spike, but it's far too weak to be effective when used that way (in theory, I guess it allows for a follow-up f-air or something...I don't know).
Pikachu's d-throw seems to be hitting them at the perfect distance now; not too far, but not too close, either.
 

cookieM0Nster

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
2,512
Location
oakland
So because the new SSS bugged me so much, due to there being a good amount of stages unselectable, I took the time to actually figure out how the code worked on my own. The last part of the SSS code I'm not completely sure about, but so far, I haven't encountered any problems.

It's slightly modified from the one I posted here before (switching Big Blue to the main page and Hanenbow to the alternate page). Here's what it looks like now: http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n223/Perf_Chaos/SSS2.jpg
All other stages are on the "Melee" Stage screen. The only stage that's completely missing is 75m, but that it actually a good thing. Before, setting 75m to random is the only way to get the Wi-Fi Waiting Room stage to be selected as random, but that has the side effect of it randoming 75m on occasions as well. With this, it only randoms WFWR when you have "75m" set to "on" on the Random Stage Switch.

For those that want the SSS that I put together and am currently using, here it is:

Code:
* 066B1E64 00000048
* 7F43D378 7F24CB78
* 480070E5 80180040
* 2C000002 41820010
* 2C030029 41820078
* 4800005C 4B9FD78D
* 2C030033 41810068
* 2C030028 41810048
* 2C030024 41810058
* 4800003C 60000000
* 046B1F04 4800002C
* 046B8F5C 7C802378
* 046B8F64 7C6300AE
* 040AF618 5460083C
* 040AF6AC 5463083C
* 040AF6C0 88030001
* 006B929C 00000022
* 066B99D8 00000022
* 04112609 1B052117
* 080A1C24 22231D27
* 1603200D 250B1002
* 0C060E14 2800011A
* 150F0000 00000000
* 006B92A4 00000008
* 066B9A58 00000008
* 07121918 131F1E29
* 06407AAC 00000062
* 01010202 03030404
* 05050606 37640808
* 0909330A 0B0B0C0C
* 0D0D0E0E 130F1410
* 15111612 17131814
* 19151C16 1D171E18
* 1F19201A 211B221C
* 231D241E 251F2932
* 2A332B34 2C352D36
* 2F373038 3139323A
* 2E3B0064 26642832
* 34053504 36110707
* 38070000 00000000
I don't know if I'm allowed to post the code for this SSS of mine here, though. If I'm not, just tell me and I'll edit it out.

Anyway, I like the fact that Ness got toned down a bit. Simna went a little bit overboard with the Ness buffs. Also, the strong wind of Ness's PSI Magnet is quite fun to play with. :laugh:
I have a question: does making Bowser's f-smash sweetspot a slash type instead of having fire do anything to the move other than visual effects? I kind of miss the fire effect, but if it being a slash type helps him, then I guess it should be that way.
As for Charizard's u-smash: the change was supposed to make it link better, but I think it had the opposite effect. Now, the only way to link them is if you do a running u-smash, but even then, it still doesn't connect that well. The first hitbox hits kind of like a semi-spike, but it's far too weak to be effective when used that way (in theory, I guess it allows for a follow-up f-air or something...I don't know).
Pikachu's d-throw seems to be hitting them at the perfect distance now; not too far, but not too close, either.
Post your SSS in Maestro's guide. He will put it on the OP of his SSS guide.

I am very sure that changing the move to slash does not alternate anything other than the visual effect. Test it out if you are not sure though.
 
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