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Evaluation/Help your G&W,Video Critique Thread,Updated (11-01-09))

JustKindaBoredUKno

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JKBUK, can ya give me some tips against Diddy?

Vids up there. ^
ah yes, sorry. i meant to, totally forgot. ^_^'

Well, theres a diddy in the area that i play quite a bit. Your by far best option is to keep him in the air, which keeps him out of reach of his nanners.

Instead of d-throws (which lets face it, just isn't that great a throw anymore. Everyone knows how to tech it. Vayseth told me this the other day, and he put it right, "Why bother grabbing anymore? You can just do a back-air or something better, and get more out of it.") try to use up-throws more, esp in this match up.

Be careful of your dairs. As I said a couple posts before, dairs are crazy punishable nowadays, just something to be careful of.

On vid 1, VERY NICE kill at 0:50. This is one of the best ways to turn the match around, use bananas to your advantage. If you're playing an amazing diddy, its best to try to throw one off the ledge, and keep one near you, because he's going to know what to do when you get one of his bananas. But in a lot of situations, its nice to use the bananas.

1:40 on the second vid. A lot of missed openings for fair. Fair, IMHO, is by far the best killing tool G&W has. Do not be afraid to use it, especially for offstage gimping. This diddy didn't seem to recover much, due to the good method of racking up damage and dying by smashes. But fair diddy like crazy while hes charging those barrels.

On a random note, Diddy seems to fall into charged up smashes more then many characters. I would never suggest it, but its always fun watching a diddy die >100% by an upsmash due to a misspaced airdodge.

on the second vid around 3:10, it all started falling apart. When this happens, just sit back on a ledge or platform, and cool off a bit, catch your breath. No need to let him continue. Most diddys know what they're doing in those situations.

You play diddy's a lot like i do, which is cool to see. We make the same errors in this match up. If you can, the very best way to practice this is to friendly against diddys at tournies. Its really cool having a diddy in my "crew," because you're always ready to play em.
 

Cyan_

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Thank you very much. I'll be sure to use your advice at the next tournament. :)
 

Lord Chair

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ick. that marth, no offense if anyones gunna take it, was really not good.

Back-airs could have been sheilded, then punished with up-b, which i only saw once.
@ 1:08 where he just sits there and gets shield grabbed... marth should almost never be grabbed by G&W.
EWW at 2:05.
Things about that marth: -didn't use nearly enough f-smash. Any marths I lose to is nearly 100% because of tots. -Didn't seem to know that marth's fair>bacon, which is weird, because this marth really loved to space fair. -Didn't recover nearly as well as most marth's should.

However, on your part Kaak. The thing I noticed most was lack of punished d-airs. Very good. Thats something I see a lot of when I watch G&W's.

Marth is G&W's 2nd worst match up. This marth doesn't quite know how to play himself, let alone know enough to punish you.
Pardon me for playing 1 bad game, I'm sure you never make any mistake ever in any friendly.

That put aside:

Spamming fsmash at 100% is a rather stupid thing to do for a Marth player, G&W does not die at that percentage unless it's a tipper, and I can assure you that if you keep dying to tippers at that percentage you should work on your spacing.

Fair > bacon is fairly common knowledge.

Working on recovery, yet the only thing people ever tell me is that I suck at it, instead of giving a decent advice.

A bad matchup is never unwinnable, honestly Kaak is still a better player then me. Aside of that, a matchup of 35-65 isn't all that bad.

I missed my shielding because I was tired, my apologies for my absent-mindedness after playing smash for 20 hours straight.

2:05, I've been working on my teching, again, sorry for being a bit off-timing. I never meant to hurt your sorry feelings.

As for DS OoS, it's not like it's super spammable, especially against well spaced bairs.

Honestly, leave your sorry comments be and don't judge players from 1 single match.

Jeez.
 

JustKindaBoredUKno

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Pardon me for playing 1 bad game, I'm sure you never make any mistake ever in any friendly.

Honestly, leave your sorry comments be and don't judge players from 1 single match.
Dude, chill out. What part of "no offense if anyones gunna take it.' didn't you get? I was asked to judge based on that video. Thats kind of the point of a "evaluation" thread. Judging based on the videos given. Telling me "don't judge" in an EVALUATION thread is like asking not to be hit in a boxing match.


Spamming fsmash at 100% is a rather stupid thing to do for a Marth player, G&W does not die at that percentage unless it's a tipper, and I can assure you that if you keep dying to tippers at that percentage you should work on your spacing.
Dude. Your character is MARTH. If you can't space for a TOTS, then quit playing that character. Marth is a character with a sword, and a TON of sweetspots. You should be better at spacing than ANYONE else. If you put this video in a marth evaluation thread, any marth better **** well tell you to learn how to space your tots. On A LOT of stages, if you tots a G&W on the edge of a stage, hes going to die near 70. F-smash isn't wise to do at lower percentages, but at 90ish+ its probly your best option.

Keep in mind, due to a ridiculous amount of hitstun, TOTS doesn't allow G&W to bucket brake all that well.


Fair > bacon is fairly common knowledge.
Then use it. Bacon is a horrible projectile, IMHO the worst in the game. Don't let it hurt you.

Working on recovery, yet the only thing people ever tell me is that I suck at it, instead of giving a decent advice.
This is the game and watch boards, not the marth boards. I'm not supposed to tell you to DB as you're recovering. My job was to rate G&W, not your marth.


A bad matchup is never unwinnable, honestly Kaak is still a better player then me. Aside of that, a matchup of 35-65 isn't all that bad.
You're telling that to the wrong boards. Its common knowledge here that is you're playing a snake, and you win, either they screwed up, or they just aren't as good as you. NoJ, Samurai Panda, Vayseth, and quite a few others even agreed to my claim. 35-65 is HORRIBLE.


I missed my shielding because I was tired, my apologies for my absent-mindedness after playing smash for 20 hours straight.
Is it my fault you were tired? Or misspaced a bit? Not at all. Keep your excuses to yourself. No one wants to hear them. I called it as I saw it. And I did nothing wrong here. Don't come in here and attack me for that.
 

Lord Chair

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Dude, chill out. What part of "no offense if anyones gunna take it.' didn't you get? I was asked to judge based on that video. Thats kind of the point of a "evaluation" thread. Judging based on the videos given. Telling me "don't judge" in an EVALUATION thread is like asking not to be hit in a boxing match.

Perhaps you should stick to rating the G&W instead of the Marth, as you said yourself.


Dude. Your character is MARTH. If you can't space for a TOTS, then quit playing that character. Marth is a character with a sword, and a TON of sweetspots. You should be better at spacing than ANYONE else. If you put this video in a marth evaluation thread, any marth better **** well tell you to learn how to space your tots. On A LOT of stages, if you tots a G&W on the edge of a stage, hes going to die near 70. F-smash isn't wise to do at lower percentages, but at 90ish+ its probly your best option.

Keep in mind, due to a ridiculous amount of hitstun, TOTS doesn't allow G&W to bucket brake all that well.

For Christ's sake, there is so much wrong about what you just wrote here that I'm not even going to comment. Or perhaps I will, at 70% a G&W of Kaak's caliber does not die of a tipper at 70% at the middle of the stage. No way. Second of all, Kaak would be a real ****ed if he wouldn't be able to anticipate fsmashes at such a percentage, which is a rather easy thing to do. A whiffed fsmash which perhaps wouldn't even be able to kill is just a waste of time and position, and easily gets punished. 'You should be spacing better than anyone else', yeah, because other characters don't have to space whatsoever? Seriously, tipping a fsmash isn't like eating a banana, you don't do it just like that.


Then use it. Bacon is a horrible projectile, IMHO the worst in the game. Don't let it hurt you.

I got hit by it once, jeez.

This is the game and watch boards, not the marth boards. I'm not supposed to tell you to DB as you're recovering. My job was to rate G&W, not your marth.

I'll revert to what I said in line one, quit nagging about my Marth and rate Kaak instead.

You're telling that to the wrong boards. Its common knowledge here that is you're playing a snake, and you win, either they screwed up, or they just aren't as good as you. NoJ, Samurai Panda, Vayseth, and quite a few others even agreed to my claim. 35-65 is HORRIBLE.

Yet it isn't unbeatable, quit whining about matchups, especially when talking to something who just got into the competitive scene and takes on the best G&W in Europe.

Is it my fault you were tired? Or misspaced a bit? Not at all. Keep your excuses to yourself. No one wants to hear them. I called it as I saw it. And I did nothing wrong here. Don't come in here and attack me for that.

No it wasn't your fault. Frankly, I wasn't blaming you for it. Offensiveness aside, I responded with just a decent post on why I was playing this badly, so you could sleep at night. If you're attacking my Marth on my playstyle, then I'd wish you knew slightly more about the situation I was in.

Finally, you misinterpret a defense with an offense, you start cracking my Marth's balls and I have to say something about it.
10charenteringeverythingin1quote.

Fixed.
 

PentaSalia

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alrighty >_>
relax
this is a critique thread, so there will always be some commentary about the opponent
but it's okay in here because it's used to help out the G&W player

any comments to the opponent is not to be taken as an offense as they are used to help out the G&W player in their matches.>.>

in other words,no point in defending yourself really, it's not like we knew who you were anyway lol...

but i'd have to agree with JkBUK
 

Lord Chair

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there will always be some commentary about the opponent
but it's okay in here because it's used to help out the G&W player...

...but i'd have to agree with JkBUK
That doesn't add up. Ranting about the G&W player's opponent does anything but help the G&W player himself...

Whatever, I'm having a useless discussion with useless opponents.
 

JustKindaBoredUKno

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Perhaps you should stick to rating the G&W instead of the Marth, as you said yourself.
I'll revert to what I said in line one, quit nagging about my Marth and rate Kaak instead.
I responded with just a decent post on why I was playing this badly, so you could sleep at night. If you're attacking my Marth on my playstyle, then I'd wish you knew slightly more about the situation I was in.

Finally, you misinterpret a defense with an offense, you start cracking my Marth's balls and I have to say something about it.
All the deserving insults that should be screamed at you aside, YOU started this. YOU came in here, questioning ME about this match up, then come back with complete bull****.


For Christ's sake, there is so much wrong about what you just wrote here that I'm not even going to comment. Or perhaps I will, at 70% a G&W of Kaak's caliber does not die of a tipper at 70% at the middle of the stage.
Do me a favor. Before you try arguing at all, try reading what I said. I said EDGE of a stage. And go ahead and try it yourself. The edge of a stage, G&W is dead.


Second of all, Kaak would be a real ****ed if he wouldn't be able to anticipate fsmashes at such a percentage, which is a rather easy thing to do. A whiffed fsmash which perhaps wouldn't even be able to kill is just a waste of time and position, and easily gets punished. 'You should be spacing better than anyone else', yeah, because other characters don't have to space whatsoever? Seriously, tipping a fsmash isn't like eating a banana, you don't do it just like that.
A. TOTS > BAIR! Holy crap. Did you know that? Marth can TOTS thru game and watchs back air. No matter how game and watch spaces it. So do me a favor. Think. Just shut up and think for five seconds.

If no matter how game and watch spaces his bair, Marth can TOTS thru it, who holds the most advantage for knowing how to space?

B. TOTS is incredibly practical. By what you just said, you said it isn't. My friends Marth, not even a legendary Marth, can TOTS on demand. I'm sorry if you can't. But its 100% possible.


Yet it isn't unbeatable, quit whining about matchups, especially when talking to something who just got into the competitive scene and takes on the best G&W in Europe.
So you're telling me match ups don't mean anything? God, you have SO much to learn as a marth player.

Finally, you misinterpret a defense with an offense, you start cracking my Marth's balls and I have to say something about it.
AHEM...

ick. that marth, no offense if anyones gunna take it, was really not good.
Pardon me for playing 1 bad game, I'm sure you never make any mistake ever in any friendly.

Who mistook what now?

That doesn't add up. Ranting about the G&W player's opponent does anything but help the G&W player himself...

Whatever, I'm having a useless discussion with useless opponents.
Ok, listen Mr. High and Mighty, I couldn't honestly tell Kaak "OMG THAT WAS UBER INCREDIBLE" with a clear conscious without first saying that his opponent was just not educated in the match up. And I can't very well JUST say "that marth was bad." Without someone getting upset.... oh wait.

And not only was that not ranting, it was future advice to what to look for in a great marth player.
 

Lord Chair

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All the deserving insults that should be screamed at you aside, YOU started this. YOU came in here, questioning ME about this match up, then come back with complete bull****.

Because I obviously have nothing better to do, I'll just continue this discussion anyway.

Telling anyone that he deserves to be crapped upon is a bit lame, try to be nice.


Do me a favor. Before you try arguing at all, try reading what I said. I said EDGE of a stage. And go ahead and try it yourself. The edge of a stage, G&W is dead.

Suppose you have a point there.

A. TOTS > BAIR! Holy crap. Did you know that? Marth can TOTS thru game and watchs back air. No matter how game and watch spaces it. So do me a favor. Think. Just shut up and think for five seconds.

If no matter how game and watch spaces his bair, Marth can TOTS thru it, who holds the most advantage for knowing how to space?

Yes, and spamming fsmash from 90% is totally unpredictable, and failing to tip multiple times in a row surely does not lead to move staling.

B. TOTS is incredibly practical. By what you just said, you said it isn't. My friends Marth, not even a legendary Marth, can TOTS on demand. I'm sorry if you can't. But its 100% possible.

If your friend's Marth can TOTS (what kind of abbreviation is that, anyway? Marth boards don't even use it) on demand, then you're the one doing something wrong. Big time.

So you're telling me match ups don't mean anything? God, you have SO much to learn as a marth player.

I never said match-ups do not matter, don't whine about people not reading if you're making the same mistake. The only thing I was trying to say was that in a context of 2 people knowing each other rather well, and one of them being a superior player, match-ups aren't that influential.

Ok, listen Mr. High and Mighty, I couldn't honestly tell Kaak "OMG THAT WAS UBER INCREDIBLE" with a clear conscious without first saying that his opponent was just not educated in the match up. And I can't very well JUST say "that marth was bad." Without someone getting upset.... oh wait.

No need to try and make me feel bad, sorry I'm immune to that kind of stuff. Aside from that, saying: 'Marth sucked, please post a video of you losing or not clearly being the superior player may make us be more capable of critiquing your playstyle' would have done fine.

And not only was that not ranting, it was future advice to what to look for in a great marth player.

You should take that to the Marth boards.
10charagainquote
 

JustKindaBoredUKno

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Telling anyone that he deserves to be crapped upon is a bit lame, try to be nice.
Once again, I wasn't rating you. Nothing I said was directed at you. It was cold, hard facts.


Yes, and spamming fsmash from 90% is totally unpredictable, and failing to tip multiple times in a row surely does not lead to move staling.
I never said SPAM SPAM SPAM. Thats our thing, not Marth's. But using it wisely Marth's best option, hands down.

If your friend's Marth can TOTS (what kind of abbreviation is that, anyway? Marth boards don't even use it) on demand, then you're the one doing something wrong. Big time.
Tip Of The Sword. TOTS is deff the best abbreviation. "EAT MY TOTS!" I mean c'mon, who wouldn't have fun saying that?

And I don't mean he can approach with it. But if I'm a position where I can be punished by f-smash, itll be a tots.

I never said match-ups do not matter, don't whine about people not reading if you're making the same mistake. The only thing I was trying to say was that in a context of 2 people knowing each other rather well, and one of them being a superior player, match-ups aren't that influential.
Ok fine, I'll give you that. But match up advice is ALWAYS useful. Always.


No need to try and make me feel bad, sorry I'm immune to that kind of stuff. Aside from that, saying: 'Marth sucked, please post a video of you losing or not clearly being the superior player may make us be more capable of critiquing your playstyle' would have done fine.
Only pointing out how big of an *** you're being. And I'm sure if he had had such a video, it would've been posted instead.

You should take that to the Marth boards.
I was giving advice. I'm not going to run into the Marth boards telling them how they should play game and watch. Thats only going to piss them off. Besides, I start enough board wars anyways.
 

kaak

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realy stop this stupid **** we played that day about 5 hours of brawl where i had a win ratio of 90% this was one of the best matches of chair.

i can upload more but you see more of the same.
 

UTDZac

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cutter

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Zac don't go for a 9 when you freeze them with an 8 like you did in the first match. They just take the ~30% and are stuck in place when they get unfrozen.

Game 2 was way too good. That 9 only makes me look at your ever-growing judgment count :p
 

UTDZac

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Zac don't go for a 9 when you freeze them with an 8 like you did in the first match. They just take the ~30% and are stuck in place when they get unfrozen.
False.

If you time it right you can judgment them out of the ice block. I've done it multiple times. It's quite easy to do if you just practice the time. Go into training or w/e and just keep using Side-B til you get an 8. Then wait a tiny bit, jump, and Side-B again. If you hit them while they are still in the ice block, they won't die like you said. If you wait til right when they pop out (like how ZSS waits on her dsmash) then there will be knockback.

Watch time 1:42 on this video:
EDIT my bad, i meant this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woj5lL2O1eE
 

cutter

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False.

If you time it right you can judgment them out of the ice block. I've done it multiple times. It's quite easy to do if you just practice the time. Go into training or w/e and just keep using Side-B til you get an 8. Then wait a tiny bit, jump, and Side-B again. If you hit them while they are still in the ice block, they won't die like you said. If you wait til right when they pop out (like how ZSS waits on her dsmash) then there will be knockback.

Watch time 1:42 on this video:
EDIT my bad, i meant this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woj5lL2O1eE
Aha, now I see exactly what you're talking about.
 

PentaSalia

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Alright
updated

wow Zac,second match was perfect:p
nice to how well you control your judgements in your game lol
makes your matches fun to watch :p


that last match was hard to watch;(
 

PentaSalia

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lawl i was hoping someone else would have gotten to em;/

alright,look back at this post,i'll check em out tomorrow: jayboi:)
 

PentaSalia

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well
you posted vids before and to be honest
the advice i have for you is similar to the last vids you had posted

you seem to approach with fair a bit too much as you would regularly approach with bair
maybe it's a mistake but just pointing it out

more nairs would have been perfect here
and the ness was overly aggressive
he came running towards you a good amount of times, throwing in a few fmashes wouldn't have been bad,
just take advantage of aggressive players that way lol

and for G&W's dash attack
it's good to only be used as a surprise attack
if you continually use it
they'll know what's coming when you're running towards them
mix your ground approaches a bit
shield dash into dtilt is a common ground approach

your dairs were fine but if they miss,remember that you can dtilt right after a dair
so it'll save you from being punished.

oh and you had a few chances to bucket his recovery

overall just work on your fair game and your approaches
and learn how to take advantage of aggressive players



and nice stage hacks

but the second stage was odd
 

PentaSalia

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:O this is my first video here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzIu05MluD4&feature=related

Please give me a lot of feedbacks. Thanks
if you dont mind,i also saw this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emg9A-FZTfs&NR=1

it was a bit easier to see what you were doing wrong when you were losing

for both matches i noticed this, all i can say is that you need to space and work on your approaches a bit better
you did fine on the lucas vs G&W because that lucas become more aggressive as he was losing and you took advantage of that but against the dee vs G&W ,he was a bit more defensive and you had trouble approaching him. For both matches,you need to work on your bair game. you would miss half the time you tried coming in with a bair and on the lucas vs G&W,you weren't really punished for it but against DDD,you were most of the times.Spacing your nairs to approach isn't a bad idea sometimes

you seem to know what you are doing once you are successful with your approach but you just need to work on getting to that point. In other words,work on your approaches(repeats self lol):laugh:

that's your only problem,the rest is fine in my opinion :)
 

PentaSalia

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yea, there's hardly anything wrong in the vid,you played pretty well
the only thing i noticed is that you weren't doing enough nairs at the beginning and that's why you were sort of behind. Nair is pretty much your saver here if bowser corners you and if be blocks it,you could quickly up and B out of it. That's all really to be honest lol

if you want a more detailed critique, you should probably post a match where you lose or at least a close match:p

and nice g&W
 

PentaSalia

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looks like the marth match up still gives you trouble:p
i play the exact same way,so i really dont know what to say xD

all i can point out is that you should have been ready for those edgehogs a number of times
and when marth is air juggling you,just try to escape it asap,don't try going for an attack(recall from memory,not sure if you tried going for attacks xD)

and you messed up those dairs a few times
 

LuVr

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ok, that was an impressive G&W so i can only offer a few pointers... one... get him in a few more inescapible combos (down throw in particular was nice but couldve been mindgamed a bit more).. also use the bacon more often to throw him off... particularly when he is edgehogging or ledgegrabbing.. your tech was great and you were pretty accurate.. i would just say also to try to time your d-airs a bit better... maybe closer to the ground.. and watch your f-airs, as these I find to particularly dangerous, especially with Marth who has excellent range with that weapon of his... That was a well-played marth and you impressed me with a number of your moves you put together...

one more thing... he shouldn't have gotten away with that down a charge move on your last stock... dont fall for that trick... it would be better to use bacon on the way down perhaps or bucket cancel to screw up his timing
 

PentaSalia

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yea nice,though i don't think kaak saw it lol

anyway,let me update this,even though there isn't that much :p

i'm going to another tourney saturday x_X
last time i got 9th,i wanna get higher now!!!lol:laugh:
 

JustKindaBoredUKno

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Vid 1:

-Don't use judge as much. As satisfying as it is, its just not practical.

-On DK's second stock, at 0%, I saw 2 possible u-tilt openings. On heavier characters, u-tilt ---> u-tilt until they're about ready to escape, then nair juggle. You can get a character up to 60%+ this way.

-@ 0:56- GREAT use of grab. Super armor would have messed you up with any other move.

- You abuse fair a lot, like I do. Try to be careful of that, because its really G&W's only reliable kill move, and its not gunna help if it's stale.

Vid 2:

you did pretty much everything I would've, except know that all your smashes, if timed right, can break jigglys rollout.

Vid 3:

-I hate snake.

Look for more fair opportunities. Snakes not too hard to gimp. I don't know who picked that stage, but watch for hazards more. Twice you got hit by a hazard that could have been easily avoided. Normally I would have said play campier, but thats hard to do on halberd. And Snake is the one character I never risk a judge on. Just not worth it.

Vid 4:
Nair way more. Nair is G&W's best move, and Wario has the hardest time working around it.

@ 1:30, bucket brake soonnnnnn. Thats essential.

@ 1:50, i was so waiting for that wario to bike right thru you.

Nair more, bucket brake more, fair less, judge less.

Vid 5 - 6 - 7

You need to follow thru with everything. You nair, you nair again, and then when you could have naird a 3rd time, you end up u-airing or something. You did the same thing with u-tilt.
Bowser, in all honesty, is probably G&W's easiest match up. Theres no need to use anything but Nair, bair, and fair to kill. Nair to d-smash was a good way to kill however, props for that.

(@ about vid 7 i started skimming.) Don't DI into fire. Its not worth it.

I don 't know what other advice I could give you about this match up. I LOVE playing bowsers, I haven't seen a bowser take me below 2 stocks in over a year.

Overall advice: Work on juggling, don't judge, nair more, and plank more. And its highly advised you bucket brake.
 

NatP

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
846
Location
Portugal
Alright thanks for the advice. Let me just say some things.

I used judge that much, because just in the previous I got an awesome nine on some guy and well, I was feeling lucky. :p But I'll stop using it. Also, I'm not that used to using utilt. It's probably my least used move because I don't know when to use it. About vid 3, I pretty much already lost when I had to use g&w against snake, IMO, because I always use DK vs snake. So I wasn't trying that hard that much. Also, I usually avoid all the hazards in halberd but this time I forgot about them. :/ I do bucket brake btw, but since this was one of my first offline matches, I got confused with the reaction time. It's so much easier to bucket brake on wifi. >.< And yeah I made lots of mistakes on my final matches, number one mistake being the bad sdi on flame. Ah, this was also my first match vs bowser ever and all I knew about the matchup is that g&w can be grab released so I just tried to stay in the air.
 

PentaSalia

Smash Master
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
4,506
Location
New York
NNID
PentaSalad
only you can use judgement hammers and be cool about it :p
don't worry

LOL


where the genesis videos zac?D:
*was looking forward to them* lol
 

JustKindaBoredUKno

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
1,606
Location
Southeast Michigan
well don't get me wrong, i use them whenever i don't have to be worried about getting punished. i got 4 9's today alone in like, 5 teams matches. but its risky when you can't afford punishment.
 
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