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The Official Ike Video Critique Thread

PentaSalia

Smash Master
Joined
May 20, 2008
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New York
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PentaSalad
guess you do have a point there lol
my apologies then

cept about the wifi thing:dizzy:
wifi good,wifi good D:

lol
 

Palpi

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
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Location
Yardley, Pennsylvania
Wifi is fine, but it isn't the best for high level of play critiquing. Look at Anti and Ally. 2 Top snakes (and MK) and they played a lot of wifi.
 

Palpi

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
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Yardley, Pennsylvania
i have a video up for critique
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17yX8f3CtRk

it was on wifi of course lol
all comments appreciated

unless you're going to be flat out mean(:evil: looks at some people here)

jk:p
but really xD,all comments appreciated lol
Wow. You look very good in this match. You are throwing out random pivot-grabs which worked great. Kawaii bunny is a good player on wifi and you seemed to handle yourself well apart from the last death and the gimp because of your whiffed counter.

Refrain from countering as much as possible.

Try to incorporation different ways of descending or falling to the ground. It seemed like in the first half of the match you got punished.

Try to incorporate bair into your air-dodge punish game. People usually tend to air dodge while they are falling to the ground. Even if your auto-cancelled bair misses you can instantly buffer and turn around and jab.

You got hurt quite a few times on your approaches with Kirby's d-tilt, work on spacing to beat out that.

Overall, you looked pretty good apart from a few mistakes.

Oh yeah.. forgot to mention that eruption whiff.. yeah.. :)
 

theeboredone

Smash Legend
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
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Houston, TX
i have a video up for critique
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17yX8f3CtRk

it was on wifi of course lol
all comments appreciated

unless you're going to be flat out mean(:evil: looks at some people here)

jk:p
but really xD,all comments appreciated lol
I'm not a fan of KawaiiBunny since me and her have had some bad run ins, but I'll be fair.

That counter you performed that led to your 2nd death. Never, ever use counter while trying to get back on stage...any good player will wreck you. Just focus on recovering.

In the beginning, when you aethered back on stage...you should have reversed it to do some damage and put your opponent in a bad situation.

Always remember that in the beginning, Kirby players like to go for that CG, so space with F-Air and N-air.

It's interesting to note that while you did do a lot of shield running, when she actually attacked you, you did a lot of spot dodging...shield is better.

Your first kill was pretty smexy. I think you did the same thing against her second stock...bad read on her.

Make sure to DI up when you get smacked by Kirby's F-Smash...that's pretty much his only kill move next to hammer and rock.

Nice use of pivot grabs and D-air to take advantage of her spot dodging...you put her on the spot to do something about it. Also, good stuff on the jab, to F-Air...she seems to fall for that a few times.

While I do admit you did a good job using pivot grabs, I personally am not a fan of them, because you can use other moves that can put you in a better position. For example, I would rather do an N-air which can lead to a B-air. N-air's spacing and lagless landing lets Ike recover faster. It's pretty much a safe move. Ike's grab is all about predicting what the opponent is gonna do, and while you did succeed a few times, you were a bit excessive. Ike's grab can leave him open if you miss. So if you get better at reading your opponent's habits, that's when you can use grab. Also, I don't recommend doing grabs against Kirby, because they are usually airborne. Kawai's other main is Ice Climbers, so DEFINITELY do not use grabs on the IC since the other will just hit you.

3/5

Pros
-Good mind games
-Pretty good spacing
-Not relying on smashes.
-Avoided the CG for the most part

Cons
-Bad use of counter
-The Reverse aether you missed
-Excessive Grabbing
-Excessive OFFENSIVE mind games led to less to no defense
-Not much use of smashes
 

PentaSalia

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PentaSalad
Thanks Palpi and bored


my bair game has always been lacking since i started playing ike and im usually punished for it because my bairs sucks lol, so i've gotten into a habit of not using it much.i know it's horrible >.> since bair is an amazing killing move.I'll definitely put more work into that.

as you said, i need to put more thought in my actions when trying to recover on stage
i know counter and eruption are horrible but i still do it ,hoping it'll work lol >.>


actually reverse aether never comes in mind but yea, it would have been best there

as for the pivots,i've just fallen in love with them<3:p
they seem to work really well for me because even if i miss,it still keeps my opponent away enough so i can space an approach or jab. I know smarter opponents will punish my vulnerability if i miss though but i do over use it xD and thanks for pointing that out.

Yea we brawl occasionally since the game come out and her IC's are tough but if i'm even going to use ike against one i usually just space fair till i get the partner lol
 

theeboredone

Smash Legend
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Mar 18, 2008
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I...don't even know you. o.O This must have been a long time ago.

LOL, I knew you would somehow end up reading my post xD...

Yea, stuff dates back from a while back, so it's kinda obvious you wouldn't remember, especially since I didn't make much out of it at that time.
 

Palpi

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@bored Out of what?...

@penta - Especially non wifi you could probably getting more punished for all of your pivot grabs, so watch out for that.
 

Mr. Doom

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Hello. I need help against this fox player. He likes to approach me from the air and combo with dairs to up-tilts. He always finds ways to get around my defenses and owns me in the end. There was only one time when I took two games off him, but I wouldn't actually call it fair because he wasn't "feeling it." So anyway, here are the videos.

Mr. Doom (Ike) Vs Zeton (Fox) 1
Mr. Doom (Ike) Vs Zeton (Fox) 2

I usually play the green Ike, but since this wii had texture hacks, I went to the Eliwood costume. There are other videos up there, but Fox and MK players are my biggest concern, for now...

Thanks again.

~Mr. Doom
 

Palpi

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Zoning. Get near him and use retreating fairs to punish Fox's lack of approach option. If you space well he can't laser camp effectivly without getting punished.

Fox is an easy character to jab cancelling but you are doing it pretty slowly, work on that. Jab (cancel) Jab combo is the most legitimate combo Ike has.

Stop using eruption, the one kill was the fox players fault, you got punished every other time.

Try not to randomly air dodge when fox hits you. He punished all your airdodges with smash attack. @2:25.

Work on you rsmash DI, and regular di. You shouldn't be getting hit with all of fox's lasers from up-throw then an up-air, it can easily be DI'd.

Try to incorporate bairs more into your game, after a nair, jab or even OoS.

Falco, Olimar, and D3 should a hell of a lot more of a concern than fox.
 

theeboredone

Smash Legend
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Zoning. Get near him and use retreating fairs to punish Fox's lack of approach option. If you space well he can't laser camp effectivly without getting punished.
I would stick with a retreating N-air or a standstill N-air rather than F-air. We can't do perfect spacing all the time, and I know even with a small error, Fox can boost Up-Smash you right after you finish the F-Air motion.

Also, I'm just gonna throw it out there, but you gotta know a Fox player's main approaches. When you are on the ground, and he jumps right above you, chances are he's gonna do a D-Air into up-tilt at early percentages. Shield it, read it, counter it. If he's a smart player, he might change it up from D-Air to grab so you have to dodge after the D-Air.

Second, Fox's only kill move really is Up Smash. You should not worry about getting hit by Up-Air. Just fast fall to the ground, and if he jumps at you, air dodge. Down Smash poses a legitimate threat if you DI the wrong way or are at high damages. But you should really be living around 130+ guaranteed each time.

Third, FD in my opinion is a bad stage to take Fox. This Fox player likes to use the D-air to up-tilt approach, and likes to jump around shooting lasers. I would recommend striking FD, and trying to hit up a small stage with platforms like BF. Also, if you guys use PS1 as a starter, that's not a bad stage to start since the stage has a high ceiling.

Finally, you should really never use F-Smash against a Fox player unless they are total garbage. Force him into either using Illusion to recover on stage or edge. If you think he's gonna do the edge, just fast fall grab the edge and watch him fall. If you think he's gonna go back onto the stage, run back a bit and use an Up Smash. If the guy has to use fire fox, Fox pretty much sucks in horizontal movement after the attack is over. So if he's goin straight up, grab the edge, and if not, try to hit him with F-Air.

Oh and I agree with everything our Senior AKA Old Man Critic Palpi says.

Nothin but love Palpi xD.
 

metroid1117

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Chester, IL
Mr. Doom vs Zeton 1

0:17 - Never roll towards a projectile spammer if you're trying to approach them; running in with a shield is almost always a better option, since Ike's roll is pretty bad frame-wise.
0:20 - Nice jab cancels, but you should've done them faster so you give your opponent less time to get away. Sometimes though, doing it slower can throw them off if they're trying to SDI, but if you notice them trying to DI out you should go for the grab or just finish the combo.
0:28 - Rather than doing jab -> kick, you should try doing jab -> jab; the kick portion of the jab combo has more wind-down time than the first jab. Also, if you did jab -> jab instead of jab -> kick, your opponent would've been trapped in front of you; he was sent behind you because you stepped forward during the kick.
0:32 - You spaced that FAir pretty badly; even though you didn't get punished, you never want to use FAir when your opponents are that close. At that range (when your opponent is right under you), NAir or just backing off is a much safer option.
0:34 - You're being too intimidated by the lasers; they don't have any hitstun at all, so you can just plow through them. When you notice your opponent spamming like that, try going for a dash attack; a lot of people inexperienced with Ike's dash attack get thrown off by it's range and trajectory.
0:39 - Your opponent was much too far to be hit by FAir; don't throw out moves if it doesn't seem like they'll hit.
0:59 - You had airdodged at 0:47, so your opponent was expecting it this time; be careful not to get too predictable.
1:02 - DAir is better than UAir for surviving vertical kills. Also, you should DI away from Fox when he does USmash, not behind him.
1:06 - He was waiting for that airdodge.
1:30 - Eruption is a bad move to throw out; if you expect your opponent to come down with an aerial, USmash is much stronger, safer, and faster for punishing them.
1:46 - Fox is very fast; if you throw out an aerial and miss, be prepared to be punished during landing lag.
2:07 - LOL he got owned. In all seriousness though, he should've just Illusion'd through you after one of his shines.
2:16 - Again, Eruption is a very bad move to throw out.
2:25 - Your airdodges got read.
2:32 - You clearly expected your opponent to come down with a DAir, so you could've punished him with an USmash.
2:43 - Again, stop with the Eruption.
2:47 - Yup, there's the USmash.
3:15 - Fox is light, but no way is he light enough to be killed by a DSmash. FTilt or UTilt would've been a better option if you just expected your opponent to get up like that.

General comments: Stop using Eruption; except for that one time where you got a kill from it, you never hit with it and you always got punished for trying it out. When edgeguarding Fox, you shouldn't go for the FSmash kill; it is possible to kill him with it when he does Illusion, but he can throw off your timing with Shines and he can just go for the auto-sweetspot with Firefox when he sees you charging it. It's better to just try and jab him out of it; it takes practice, but it's possible to get it down. A lot of the times when you approached from the air, he would either just run away and wait for you to use an aerial or just run right under you with a shield so that he can grab you during landing lag; you need to space yourself better so that he doesn't have the opportunity to get that close. Be more liberal with USmash or UTilt to counter aerial approaches; he always came down with a DAir, so you could've punished him easily with either attack. Also, don't be afraid to just eat the lasers to get close to the Fox; it's not nearly as effective as a projectile as Pit's arrows or Falco's laser.
 

fatalmztake

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
135
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Fresno, California
Hey, I need someone to load up a replay for me so it can be critiqued, any help? BTW the replay I want uploaded I did win, but I did some much wrong I feel and it was the only win out of like 10 games. So a little help would be nice.
 

Melfice z

Smash Ace
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Mar 31, 2008
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liberty/kansas city, missouri
Its probably not the viable thing to do, but when you kill your opponent and you're in the 110+ range, its obvious your opponent is just trying to get the kill. Try to predict "if i were wario, when would a smash?" and throw out a counter or two.
Don't shoot me! D:

3:08, prime example :urg:
 

Teh Brettster

Smash Master
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Nov 30, 2008
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Denton, Texas (Dallas)
Arturo.. just a couple of things.
Not all Warios will get grabbed as much as they did. But very good job using different attacks out of grab release at the right times. It gave you those matches. It's also nice to trick their DI.. today I fooled one into thinking I was going to Utilt. He DIed hard right and I Baired him to the right and killed him for the win. You play more aggressively against Wario than I do. But that's just varying styles.

Eh, onto that IC match.
It wasn't great. Don't ever approach with Fair against ICs. Actually, just don't approach unless you need to. Retreating FF Fair is probably the biggest reason Ike can do well in this match-up. Jabs are good... one thing you did really well was grab without being punished. Good job with the pummels and throw directions. Also nice dealing with Nana when they were separated. Try not to land on top of ICs coming from the air. It's just rock-paper-scissors to see if you get grabbed when that happens.
He never really de-synched... you'll see a lot more from ICs when they do that... alternating blizzard is one thing that can also lead into grab.
One more thing. This is one of those match-ups where you just don't want to use QD. Seriously. It will not work against a better pair of ICs.

Your jabs are great, but I think there were a few times where you could have killed with Utilt. Remember that option. It's my favy.

...Wow, I walked away while typing this and now have nothing to say. I hope I didn't forget anything. Oh well.
 

Arturito_Burrito

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Mar 24, 2008
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el paso, New mexico
I'm not going to start countering mel and you shouldn't either trust me on that one lol. If you ever do see me countering its because I'm sand bagging or scrubbing it up.

Thanks brett for the wario match up i always try and grab because the best thing they can do is jump and like I've been saying in AL I actually think its a true combo if you hit with the right hitbox of jab and even if i do miss its not like I'll be punished since they jumped away. And I do love Grab release to up angled uptilt since past like 110% they will die upwards if they DI up.

The IC's are something i need to relearn and now that i think about it i have been approaching to much thanks for that.

Any body else? I should have 3 more videos tomorrow and I'm probably going to be uploading a lot this week.
 

Kimchi

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Sep 28, 2008
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Fort Lee, NJ / Cornell University - Ithaca, NY
A_B vs ICs
Some things I immediately noticed was your usage of approaching error13 with Fair. Try to refrain from approaching with Fair, ever. Though it's great for spacing, approaching with Fair can be pretty risky because it can be pretty easily punished. If players walk in and you try to jab them, they can shield your jab and simply shield grab you. Against ICs, you'll want to rely on essentially 6 important moves: Retreating Fair, Nair, Grabs/pummels, Counter, Utilt, and Jab. Of course, I'm not saying these are the only moves you should use in order to win, but I'm sure an Ike of your caliber already knows that :p. Retreating Fair is extremely useful in this matchup, because most if not all ICs crave to try to get a grab in and they'll do whatever it takes, whether they try a dashing grab, a shield grab, or a pivot grab. Retreating Fair takes care of both dashing/shield grabs if you space it well/perfect. Nair and Utilt both essentially have the same purpose: they send ICs into the air if you hit them. Since ICs's aerial game is pretty weak and pathetic, Ike can destroy them in the air. One of your best friends though in this matchup are jab cancels. Jab cancels completely destroy ICs, and that's why Nair is also useful, because jabs are just awesome followups to Nair. Nair -> Utilt is also a good followup. I'm pretty sure you already know the fact that jabs can be followed up with grabs. Pummel ICs then Bthrow one of them and Fsmash the other if they try to get back together or follow up the Bthrow with Dash attack to get ICs offstage. Counter is useful for boggling ICs's desync blizzard approach.
 

Teh Brettster

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A_B vs ICs
Some things I immediately noticed was your usage of approaching error13 with Fair. Try to refrain from approaching with Fair, ever. Though it's great for spacing, approaching with Fair can be pretty risky because it can be pretty easily punished. If players walk in and you try to jab them, they can shield your jab and simply shield grab you. Against ICs, you'll want to rely on essentially 6 important moves: Retreating Fair, Nair, Grabs/pummels, Counter, Utilt, and Jab. Of course, I'm not saying these are the only moves you should use in order to win, but I'm sure an Ike of your caliber already knows that :p. Retreating Fair is extremely useful in this matchup, because most if not all ICs crave to try to get a grab in and they'll do whatever it takes, whether they try a dashing grab, a shield grab, or a pivot grab. Retreating Fair takes care of both dashing/shield grabs if you space it well/perfect. Nair and Utilt both essentially have the same purpose: they send ICs into the air if you hit them. Since ICs's aerial game is pretty weak and pathetic, Ike can destroy them in the air. One of your best friends though in this matchup are jab cancels. Jab cancels completely destroy ICs, and that's why Nair is also useful, because jabs are just awesome followups to Nair. Nair -> Utilt is also a good followup. I'm pretty sure you already know the fact that jabs can be followed up with grabs. Pummel ICs then Bthrow one of them and Fsmash the other if they try to get back together or follow up the Bthrow with Dash attack to get ICs offstage. Counter is useful for boggling ICs's desync blizzard approach.
This. I couldn't have put it any better. I live in Dallas and occasionally play Melee1.. I've also played Hylian's ICs.. and my buddy who I play a lot at college uses them some too. And everything Kimchi just said is true. The thing about countering blizzard really is useful.
 

Palpi

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Nair = sheild grab. IC live inside their bubble. Good Iceclimbers don't randomly dash grab and they are fast enough for retreating nair to be totally effective, but if you do connect with a nair it is effective. Almost everything ike does can be punished with a grab.
 

Kimchi

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Nair = sheild grab. IC live inside their bubble. Good Iceclimbers don't randomly dash grab and they are fast enough for retreating nair to be totally effective, but if you do connect with a nair it is effective. Almost everything ike does can be punished with a grab.
Which is why I limited everything that Ike can use against ICs to 6 essential moves. Good Ikes don't approach with Nair if they know ICs can shield it.
 

Palpi

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Obviously.

Pretty much everyone is saying, play gay like iceclimbers. Bait them, don't let them bait you, because that is all they can do :) ...kinda..

1 over aggressive nair or fair and you can die :)
 

Kimchi

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Obviously.

Pretty much everyone is saying, play gay like iceclimbers. Bait them, don't let them bait you, because that is all they can do :) ...kinda..

1 over aggressive nair or fair and you can die :)
Who would play aggressively against an ICs who can chain grab? I'm sure that after people saw Lain vs M2K, they took it as granted that ICs can end games with one grab, which is essentially true.
 

Nysyarc

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I'm gonna try critiquing this Metroid-style. I like that it's Ike vs. Ganon, I know that match-up pretty well.

0:10 - I can tell this is WiFi, that jab-canceling was way too slow.
0:12 - Ganon's Dtilt -> Dtilt isn't a true combo, I believe you can DI down and powershield the second one.
0:20 - Never underestimate Ganon's Uair, when approaching him from the air you have to space carefully to get around it.
0:25 - That could have ended worse but there's not much you could have done, that was a great tipman spike by the Ganon.
0:32 - Again the slow canceling, I'll blame it on WiFi.
0:33 - And again, he seems to like Dtilt -> Dtilt at low %s, remember to SDI down on the first hit and you can powershield -> jab him. He doesn't use Ganon's side B at all, so you should be shielding a lot unless he starts using it.
0:54 - Would have been the perfect time for an Ftilt or even another jab -> Bair to get the KO there.
1:00 - Follow that up with a dash attack and it's a KO.
1:11 - Coming down with a Dair is usually not a good option. Especially since there's a high ceiling there. I would have fast-falled an Fair, better chance of hitting and less landing lag if you miss.
1:13 - You have to be fast at canceling your combo if the first or second jab is blocked/dodged. Using the third hit will just get you punished.
1:15 - That could have been avoided, although I think that's obvious.
1:23 - *No comment* :laugh:
1:35 - Never run straight at Ganon as an approach, no matter how much lag you think he's going to have. A lot of his moves AC or have surprising IASA frames.
1:40 - Bad decision by the Ganon, but nice (albeit risky on WiFi) way of ending the match.

Overall, make sure you read your opponent's playing style, what moves he uses a lot and what moves he leaves untouched. The Ganon didn't use his Dair to punish and he didn't use Flame Choke at all except once when he missed. All of those times you got 'comboed' by his Dtilts and Uairs could have been avoided, Ganon only has a few true combos and they all involve his Flame Choke.


:034:
 

theeboredone

Smash Legend
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
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Houston, TX
Stop using my outfit.

Ike's jab has a "sweet spot" against Ganon. What I mean by this is that he will automatically go into a combat walk if you jab him from the proper range.

Nysyarc, he plays wifi a lot, he's just bad at jab canceling...I could do better and I don't play wifi.

Stop holding "A" when he is far away, it's so obvious he's gonna come at you with his Down+B sweep, you get punished for being stupid. You're better off spacing with retreating F-Air to lure him into your sword, or retreating N-Air which you can use as bait.

Don't mess around with pivot grabs and stuff, Ganon can hit you hard, so play safe against him. Grabbing is the last thing that should be on your mind unless you can grab him after a lag move (shielding his Down+B).

I'm not sure how bad the lag was, so that might have credited to your awful jab canceling, you kinda looked like crap in this match to be honest...just work on spacing and baiting for now.

Oh, and I've been practicing Ganon as a MM character...interesting note with the D-tilt to D-tilt.
 

comboking

Smash Master
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Jan 12, 2008
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MidWest
I normally play with textures.
I can jab cancel offline just fine. I need to start thinking about what I am doing and not just doing anything.
 

~~Ari~~

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
150
Location
NY
Penta told me about this video, good games comboking, yeah that was a hilarious ending, I should have thought twice, but Ganon is way too much fun :) Great IKE!
 
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